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Why the dislike for Chrono Cross?
- Thread starter "D"
- Start date
nah man, Gale is awesome, it is so utterly chaotic but so captivating
It's probably my favorite JRPG from that era, but I started it with no real expectations. If you were coming into it expecting Chrono Trigger 2, it's pretty easy to understand where the disappointment comes from. It's a very different game, and one that, in some ways, takes Trigger's story much more seriously than Trigger itself, painting over a fairly black and white story with many gray shades.
I think that's one of the reasons I like it so much.
I think that's one of the reasons I like it so much.
you might like Baten Kaitos Origins
DiipuSurotu
Banned
We were supposed to save them in the final game of the Chrono trilogy:
Masato Kato in 2000 said:
Hironobu Sakaguchi in 2001 said:
Masato Kato in 2015 said:
Karsticles
Member
Boring senseless convoluted plot.
Uninteresting undeveloped characters.
Dull combat system that gets rid of combo techs for the most part.
It's a pretty indefensible game even on its own, but take it as a sequel to the best RPG ever made and it's a creative tragedy.
Uninteresting undeveloped characters.
Dull combat system that gets rid of combo techs for the most part.
It's a pretty indefensible game even on its own, but take it as a sequel to the best RPG ever made and it's a creative tragedy.
isaacnukem
Member
I like it more than Trigger.
DragonGirl
Member
I loved Chrono Cross right up until it hit the point in the story where it took all of the good feeling you got from Chrono Trigger and murdered them dead. Oh, you thought you saved the world? Naw, everything went to shit.
Well for starters it has the some of the worst that '90s Japan could offer in character design, add to that a supersized cast and the fact the characters in the previous game were designed by the most famous and recognizable mangaka of its time and you have a recipe for disaster.
Second the more you get into the game the more you see that this game treats Trigger and everything that happened in that game like trash which hurts a lot if you liked Trigger.
Edit:
I mean what the heck is this?
It looks one of those "how to draw manga" characters from publications that were around years ago.
Second the more you get into the game the more you see that this game treats Trigger and everything that happened in that game like trash which hurts a lot if you liked Trigger.
Edit:
I mean what the heck is this?
It looks one of those "how to draw manga" characters from publications that were around years ago.
I did my part and voted for it in the Essential RPGs thread.
Also, I am going to plug this video again because I think it is an awesome explanation as to why Cross isn't a bad sequel to Trigger.
Also, I am going to plug this video again because I think it is an awesome explanation as to why Cross isn't a bad sequel to Trigger.
To be fair, Chrono Trigger didn't ruin Chrono Cross. Maybe some day there will be a third Chrono game that destroys everything you liked about Chrono Cross and we'll have come full circle.
Tomasoares
Member
I don't think you were meant to like all the playable characters from Chrono Cross. IMO, most of them are just as a "reward" for completing a certain quest. Also, the battle system was awesome (altough the game is very easy, so you don't need to deal with it that much). I also like that there's no regular LVL system, so grinding is not an option here.
Starwolf_UK
Member
It has some of the weird ideas that were in fashion at the time like equipment upgrades linked to crafting systems from loot but those were are really small things on the side of it being "I've not seen Crono yet; it's not a sequel", "why is Lucca's Theme the battle victory" and it slowly all comes into focus with CT related things but remains a blur until some large info dumps near the end of the game. Oh btw that good ending to give a probably too big hint as to what to do to achieve it
The dual-triple techs. There are a few small handful despite a much larger cast (maybe this is why) and one of them was from Chrono Trigger anyway.
I hope you paid attention to the boss rush
The dual-triple techs. There are a few small handful despite a much larger cast (maybe this is why) and one of them was from Chrono Trigger anyway.
The idea of bigger parties is one remedy except it's the PS1 and if you doing a polygonal RPG you end up with FFIX which finally managed 4 person parties but at significant masked loading for each battle. But yeah they tended to go from this person seems rather important to here is a scarecrow because...everyone loved Tofu from RE2?
Now there is an RPG that goes for a smaller main party than it's other entry (halving the size from six down to three) and as a result you have solid relationships. Also has nice pre-rendered and pre-drawn backgrounds. Makes me wonder how Chrono Cross would have been had stuck more to the Radical Dreamers concept or possibly been one of those RPGs with a revolving door of guest characters.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I love the cast of Chrono Cross. Radius alone has more character development than the entire cast of Chrono Trigger combined. Kid, Harle, Glenn, Karsh, etc. are also well developed.
Of course, there are also underdevelopped characters with paper-thin personalities, just like there was Crono and Ayla in the first game, but they're pretty inoffensive.
Of course, there are also underdevelopped characters with paper-thin personalities, just like there was Crono and Ayla in the first game, but they're pretty inoffensive.
I LOVE the body swap. What other game has ever had the balls to do that?
waxinlyrical
Member
Metal Gear Solid 2?
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
One of my favorite games of all time.
Though even I'll admit it was due for another round or two of editing.
I think it does some cool stuff to mix up the formula. You walk into every battle fully equipped, so you budget per battle rather than per dungeon run. The central characters and story are evocative. It was the first game where I spent hours looking for more content online, which was way harder to tease out than it used to be.
There is too much fluff, the pacing is erratic, and the info dump at the end makes me weep because it seems so misplaced. There was solid gold set aside in optional dialogue.
It's a shame. You hear stories about ideas they had that wouldn't fit. It feels like a game that could have used another year of development but was rushed out before the PS1 sputtered out. Like maybe it could have had that extra coating to make it hit for everyone.
lol, that ones actually my GOAT. Maybe I have a thing for this wankery.
Though even I'll admit it was due for another round or two of editing.
I think it does some cool stuff to mix up the formula. You walk into every battle fully equipped, so you budget per battle rather than per dungeon run. The central characters and story are evocative. It was the first game where I spent hours looking for more content online, which was way harder to tease out than it used to be.
There is too much fluff, the pacing is erratic, and the info dump at the end makes me weep because it seems so misplaced. There was solid gold set aside in optional dialogue.
It's a shame. You hear stories about ideas they had that wouldn't fit. It feels like a game that could have used another year of development but was rushed out before the PS1 sputtered out. Like maybe it could have had that extra coating to make it hit for everyone.
lol, that ones actually my GOAT. Maybe I have a thing for this wankery.
Nose Master
Member
People expected CT, it wasn't. The music is good, though.
Lucca's letter in Cross made perfect sense to me. A huge chunk of the game is dealing with the consequences of your action. While the trigger crew saved the world they've also prevented people from the ruined future from existing. They've also lead to the creation of the Chronopolis and the whole convoluted frozen flame plot. Lucca more or less believed someone would come for them because of what they did anyway and it actually happens.
Just the usual PSOne Classics release.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
It's a good game, but definitely too many characters with lots of them being effectively useless. Also pretty dark, which probably put some people off
Head.spawn
Junior Member
They could definitely add in some relevant callbacks to the if they ever get around to making a Chrono Trigger sequel, that'd be awesome. I mean, a sequel that is part of a trilogy with practically no relation to the first game wouldn't make much sense at all. Who would do that? :3
A third game would be great too.
All Possible Ways
Member
One of my favorite games. Replayed several times, got all characters, all level 3 techs and saw all the endings.
I can see why people dislike the way the plot was handled, with the text dump at the end, but I genuinely thought it was an interesting story. I do regret them cutting Magus' story though..
Most of the characters are fluff yes, but there is a core cast that is well fleshed out.
I also love Trigger. If they ever do a third game, I wouldn't mind if it were conpletely different from the previous two.
I can see why people dislike the way the plot was handled, with the text dump at the end, but I genuinely thought it was an interesting story. I do regret them cutting Magus' story though..
Most of the characters are fluff yes, but there is a core cast that is well fleshed out.
I also love Trigger. If they ever do a third game, I wouldn't mind if it were conpletely different from the previous two.
toddhunter
Member
The best part of a jrpg is getting to know a small group of characters, seeing them grow, seeing them achieve something.
Well it used to be and that was why it didn't hold my interest. With that focus removed you are just left with story and gameplay. CC is ok in this regard, but "ok" is hardly a glowing endorsement compared to trigger.
Basically it missed the point.
Well it used to be and that was why it didn't hold my interest. With that focus removed you are just left with story and gameplay. CC is ok in this regard, but "ok" is hardly a glowing endorsement compared to trigger.
Basically it missed the point.
That swap was so much better. This swap was an immediate save and I'll return sometime later.
You don't like Suikoden then? II, III and V are amazing JRPGs even if there is 108 characters to recruit in each. Some are just there for the laughs or the filler while some are critical to the plot and grow through the game.
Same.
Shit, I like PS1 JRPGs more than SNES JRPGs. Not saying I dislike SNES JRPGs.
Concise and spot-on.
It also turns out that flagging your game a sequel by putting "Chrono" in the title may actually cause people to be irritated when the game strays so far from its source. "Wanting it to be like CT" is not the unreasonable expectation that some defenders suggest.
But even if you can put up with A) a sequel not overseen by the original Dream Team (no, Kato did not create the driving tone and overall arch of Chrono Trigger) and B) its obnoxious "dark" tonal shift from its source materials owing to an unsupervised Kato, you're still left with an expository, psychobabble-ridden story that's more about telling than showing, and that absorbs the negative Evangelion-based lessons of its time in terms of confusing "complexity/confusion" for "thematic depth."
texhnolyze
Banned
My top 10 JRPG of all time. One of the most replayed JRPGs.
I surely dislike it. I even like it more than Trigger.
I surely dislike it. I even like it more than Trigger.
It turns out that three teenagers, a cave woman, a middle-age knight, a death robot (heart of gold or no), and an emo with a sister complex arent the most qualified people to go about mucking about with time. Shit they tried to pull had unintended consequences. This was the basic conceit of Chrono Cross, and I have to give it credit for having the stones to treat a new timeline as a new timeline, not a simple re color like so many other time travel stories.
But while the idea was intriguing, the execution was garbage. Plot points dropped for hours so we can follow irrelevant characters and as they do nothing of substance unless their names were Kid or Harley. Dull samey maps that cant just be blamed on the tech of the time. Brian dead battle system. Useless magic. Bafflingly vague weapon upgrade systems. I was high on pain killers from a recent surgery when I first played this game, and it was still boring.
Was glad they answered the Schala question though. I always did wonder what happened to her after Trigger.
But while the idea was intriguing, the execution was garbage. Plot points dropped for hours so we can follow irrelevant characters and as they do nothing of substance unless their names were Kid or Harley. Dull samey maps that cant just be blamed on the tech of the time. Brian dead battle system. Useless magic. Bafflingly vague weapon upgrade systems. I was high on pain killers from a recent surgery when I first played this game, and it was still boring.
Was glad they answered the Schala question though. I always did wonder what happened to her after Trigger.
toddhunter
Member
In general, no for that exact reason.
However a couple of the suikodens shine through in the other areas especially 5 (ignoring load times...).
Honestly the number 1 reason is pretty much what you highlighted OP , it was sold to me as Chrono Cross, the sequel to Chrono Trigger. Chrono Trigger is easily my favorite JRPG of all time to such a high degree that nothing else even touches it despite 22 years having elapsed since it's release. Obviously it would be hard to impress me with a sequel although now it would probably be worse ? CT has only managed to appreciate in worth for as I've aged. Back in 2000 though , it was intended to be the highlight of the "summer of Square" , 3 months that brought Legend of Mana (pretty looking but not much fun) , Vagrant Story (too far ahead of it's time for me to appreciate it ... essentially I found it too damn hard) , Dew Prism/threads of fate(which was a fine spiritual successor to Musashi but nothing jaw dropping) and finally Chrono Cross - a sequel to the "best game of all time".
Except... it wasn't really a sequel to Chrono Trigger so much as it was a re-make of the satalliview snes game Radical Dreamers. Elements felt shoehorned in to make it work as a followup to CT but it never felt natural to me. It reminded me of something like Dinosaur planet becoming star fox adventure - where you could tell this was chopped into a sequel rather than simply being it's own thing. The only element it retained from CT really was Yasunori Matsuda doing the soundtrack and I can admit - it's mostly fantastic stuff, some of his best work even. The pre-rendered backdrops and overall graphical presentation where stellar for a 2000 PS1 game too. But, it angered me immensely that it took the best mystery left from CT and just wasted it here. The game has like 50 characters that range from ugly to super ugly , all of them are incredibly weird. The story never really gets going or feels meaningful , instead trapped in some oddball state of vignettes that don't connect to one another in the slightest. Finally the battle system is a boring slog compared to the simple majesty of the original CT. Instead of tons of unique abilities you get color coded magic shared by everyone and - the hallmark of CT - double and triple techs, are relegated to a handful of techniques only possible with very specific parties.
The entire affair just felt kind of ... like a lot of nothing. It was just a strange journey with a rag tag regiment of oddball freaks and weirdos that don't matter and aren't important that are then duct taped to one or 2 plot threads from Chrono Trigger that were better left alone.
People will mention suikoden when talking about Chrono Cross due to the number of characters but the thing is , that game still had a core cast of decidedly likeable main characters and even in spite of that everyone you recruit had their own little story or reason for following you into battle. It was a different (much better) beast.
I genuinely believe Chrono Cross is the single most overated videogame in history. Even if I toss aside my personal issues with the game I can't see it as anything more than a very pretty but incredibly dull JRPG. There's nothing special about it outside of the music if you remove the name. It's not awful or anything , I mean it's not "legend of Dragoon" but really the only thing that memorable about it 17 years removed is how hyped up everyone was.
Honestly I'm happy for people that enjoy it beyond the aesthetics but for me , in all honesty - the closest thing there is a game that actually feels like a sequel to Chrono Trigger tonally - Grandia , the first one. These days of course you've got a few games that pay heavy homage to CT like "I am Setsuna" as well as "cosmic star heroine" and they're both great but I don't think any game will ever scratch that particular itch quite the same way.
Except... it wasn't really a sequel to Chrono Trigger so much as it was a re-make of the satalliview snes game Radical Dreamers. Elements felt shoehorned in to make it work as a followup to CT but it never felt natural to me. It reminded me of something like Dinosaur planet becoming star fox adventure - where you could tell this was chopped into a sequel rather than simply being it's own thing. The only element it retained from CT really was Yasunori Matsuda doing the soundtrack and I can admit - it's mostly fantastic stuff, some of his best work even. The pre-rendered backdrops and overall graphical presentation where stellar for a 2000 PS1 game too. But, it angered me immensely that it took the best mystery left from CT and just wasted it here. The game has like 50 characters that range from ugly to super ugly , all of them are incredibly weird. The story never really gets going or feels meaningful , instead trapped in some oddball state of vignettes that don't connect to one another in the slightest. Finally the battle system is a boring slog compared to the simple majesty of the original CT. Instead of tons of unique abilities you get color coded magic shared by everyone and - the hallmark of CT - double and triple techs, are relegated to a handful of techniques only possible with very specific parties.
The entire affair just felt kind of ... like a lot of nothing. It was just a strange journey with a rag tag regiment of oddball freaks and weirdos that don't matter and aren't important that are then duct taped to one or 2 plot threads from Chrono Trigger that were better left alone.
People will mention suikoden when talking about Chrono Cross due to the number of characters but the thing is , that game still had a core cast of decidedly likeable main characters and even in spite of that everyone you recruit had their own little story or reason for following you into battle. It was a different (much better) beast.
I genuinely believe Chrono Cross is the single most overated videogame in history. Even if I toss aside my personal issues with the game I can't see it as anything more than a very pretty but incredibly dull JRPG. There's nothing special about it outside of the music if you remove the name. It's not awful or anything , I mean it's not "legend of Dragoon" but really the only thing that memorable about it 17 years removed is how hyped up everyone was.
Honestly I'm happy for people that enjoy it beyond the aesthetics but for me , in all honesty - the closest thing there is a game that actually feels like a sequel to Chrono Trigger tonally - Grandia , the first one. These days of course you've got a few games that pay heavy homage to CT like "I am Setsuna" as well as "cosmic star heroine" and they're both great but I don't think any game will ever scratch that particular itch quite the same way.
toddhunter
Member
This was the golden age of jrpgs. The bar was very, very high.
