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Eurogamer: Firewatch review-bombed following PewDiePie racism incident

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
Exactly my point that it's a societal problem, and games are a big enough element of society that that societal problem appears in people who also happen to play games. It is not exclusive to games or even fostered by or more prevalent in games, it just is a part of the world everyone has to work against.

People posting "this is why I don't want to play games anymore" accomplishes nothing because the problem still exists. Stopping playing games doesn't mean you won't encounter this behavior or bad racist beliefs.

Of course stopping playing games won't stop the person from encountering racist/sexist/homophobic/etc individuals, but the point of stating something like, "I stopped playing games online" is that it is something that is within the victimized person's control in some way. I can't avoid racism in my day to day, but I can minimize my exposure to racism while trying to enjoy my favorite past time of playing video games while I unwind after a hard day of, well, making video games at my job, by avoiding online gaming outside of playing with friends or my wife. Call me sensitive, but I just haven't ever gotten used to being called a "nigger" by someone who sounds like their balls haven't dropped yet.

It's just a little thing we can do to not have this shit filter into every little bit of escapism we try to occupy our minds with. It's another reason why representation in gaming is so important to people like me, to women, to the LGBTQ community and all of the other marginalized groups that have a passion for escapist entertainment. For many straight white males, escapism through books, film, television, gaming, is total. No nook and cranny of their power fantasies has been left unexplored or unexploited. For marginalized groups like I mentioned above, escapism through similar mediums comes with a shit ton of caveats. Mostly revolving around how the few representatives of our gender, ethnicity, or sexual identity have been portrayed in our chosen medium of escapism. History has shown that most of those representations are lacking (key word being most, by the way).

Our representations are either exploitative, or offensively stereotypical. That is, if we're included at all. As marginalized minorities, we've gotten used to putting ourselves in the shoes of the heroine straight white male, while cringing at the lone minority, female, LGBTQ character they've inserted to be relegated to supporting character or damsel. It fucking sucks.

So yeah, when someone says they avoid gaming with others because of the toxic environment, I can't say I blame them. And I certainly don't "not all gamers" them. They know it's not all gamers. That doesn't change the fact that their experiences have soured them on their hobby. My wife has been gaming since she was a little girl, but she's sworn off playing online with strangers because of the harassment she's had to deal with every time she dared to join a game. Is it unfair that she's associated her numerous experiences with harassment with online gaming as a whole? Maybe. But it's even worse that a hobby she loves has made her feel unwelcome, isolated, and excluded. I can relate to that.

Anyway, sorry for the off topic. I think Campo Santo was awesome taking a stand against bigotry and racism by disassociating themselves with PewDie Pie. As a creator, would you really want your work to be associated with racists or misogynists or homophobes? I personally would not.
 

L Thammy

Member
don't we think that non-gaming alt-righters and non-gaming white surpremicists are also supporting pewdie since he is a vocal known racist and supporter and they could be contributing to the Firestorm smear campaign? it doesn't have to just be gamers. if you are involved in a white surpremecy movement you probably contribute however you can: from writing letters to senators to online smears

So, on one hand, yes, PewDiePie's gotten other alt-right supporters. However, it's incredibly naive to think that a major portion of PewDiePie's supporters are invaders who have no interest in gaming.

Don't forget that we've seen a homegrown hate movement spontaneously arise out of the gaming community and quickly become very visible. Yes, it got alt-right support, but what they did is inject the specifics of their politics to a movement that already existed.

The gaming community has a lot of genuinely hateful people, a lot of people who are absolutely apathetic to anything but their own enjoyment, and a lot of people who are frustrated by demographics shifts that mean that they're no longer the sole audience to target. These people exist without having contact with the alt-right, but their motivations are similar and they will eagerly absorb their talking points if presented.

Even the gamers who didn't supported Gamergate early on without knowing what it was about weren't all that great; they were generally people frustrated that games they like weren't getting high enough review scores or that reviewers were actually being critical. Gamers have this tendency to ghettoize themselves; they can't handle people who don't share their tastes, so they pull into like-minded communities. It's different than wanting to reject ideas of whateverphobia because the ideas that they're uncomfortable with aren't even dangerous or harmful, they're just different. A lot of Nintendo fans can't stand being around anyone who isn't a Nintendo fan, Sony fans can't handle being around Xbox fans, so on. Even on this forum, look at the persecution complex that arises around decisive games. Outside of the OT, there's no space on GAF where you're cordoned off from people who don't like your favourite game, and when that's a large amount of people you'll find a large amount of gaffers who struggle with that policy.

And even then, GAF is still kind of a place to hide out from the reality that hardcore gamers are nowhere near as important to the industry as we were two decades ago, isn't it? In the outside world, will people care so much that the only new entry to your favourite franchise is a mobile or pachinko game?

Part of the alt-right's appeal to gamers is that they sell that denial of reality. We'll fight reviewers so you'll never have to handle reviews you don't like anymore. We'll fight femininists so that you won't have to hear people say mean things about your favourite games. We'll fight women and minorities so that the developers have to focus on you again.

I think it's important not to undermine that this is a gaming thing, because part of what lures gamers to the alt-right is something in gaming community itself.

Nabbed the following from a Gamergate board back in the day. Consider how it's trying to sell its idea to the reader. Consider what sort of world it's pushing for and why.

gsrlqjlkfxoh.png
 

Fisty

Member
I remember buying Read Only Memories when they told fascists to fuck off. I would do the same here but Campo already got my money. Fully support their DMCA here.
 

SmZA

Member
How sad are these losers that they've tracked down Sean Vanaman's youtube account to leave shitty comments on his most recent video (that happens to be three years old):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X6HO_QMUSU

Anyway, Firewatch rules. If you play it, I strongly recommend turning off all map hints, and never using the map data you find in boxes. It makes it a game of navigation and pathfinding, a bit like Miasmata. There aren't many games like that, so take this as an opportunity.
 

pooptest

Member
At the very least add a filter for quick refunds

That's too easy. Better yet, have Steam link your YT account and null any review that a user has Thumbed Up a PDP video and game reviewed after play time of <X hours.

Nah, I like your idea better. :p
 

RRockman

Banned
How sad are these losers that they've tracked down Sean Vanaman's youtube account to leave shitty comments on his most recent video (that happens to be three years old):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X6HO_QMUSU

Anyway, Firewatch rules. If you play it, I strongly recommend turning off all map hints, and never using the map data you find in boxes. It makes it a game of navigation and pathfinding, a bit like Miasmata. There aren't many games like that, so take this as an opportunity.

Disgusting. How can people be so childish?
 

bosh

Member
Could be good for Firewatch in the long run. The reviews will eventually turn back around but in the short term I imagine this will be a hot news story for gaming sites.

They will mention what and why and then give a brief description about the game and how they reviewed it last year (which was probably very well).

Not sure why someone would rate a game bad for not wanting to be associated with a YouTube personalty. I guess some people think they are "making a difference"....
 

Socreges

Banned
I'm now interested in this game I had otherwise never paid attention to! Thank you, internet douchebags, for placing the spotlight
 
How sad are these losers that they've tracked down Sean Vanaman's youtube account to leave shitty comments on his most recent video (that happens to be three years old):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X6HO_QMUSU

Anyway, Firewatch rules. If you play it, I strongly recommend turning off all map hints, and never using the map data you find in boxes. It makes it a game of navigation and pathfinding, a bit like Miasmata. There aren't many games like that, so take this as an opportunity.

Damn, that must be the most pathetic and disturbing shit, I have ever seen on the YouTube comments section,lol. Insane.
 

Atomski

Member
They don't do this? Might be a little troublesome for Valve to implement, but it's necessary, and I'm not shedding any tears for Valve's workload.
what if you buy a game that is legit broken.. Are you not going to leave a review before asking for a refund?
 

Freeman76

Member
Pewdie Pie is a dick, who talks shit, known fact.

However

I hope the devs of this game donate some of the extra revenue this situation has guaranteed to generate for them, to an anti-racism organisation like quilliam foundation or something similar. Use the situation to raise awareness and fight shit like this
 

chaos789

Banned
We people were a mistake, we are nothing but trash. God and evolution should be ashamed of us.

We are a virus. Too many of us care little for each other and more about what is in it for us. This selfishness will be our undoing.
 
How sad are these losers that they've tracked down Sean Vanaman's youtube account to leave shitty comments on his most recent video (that happens to be three years old):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X6HO_QMUSU

Anyway, Firewatch rules. If you play it, I strongly recommend turning off all map hints, and never using the map data you find in boxes. It makes it a game of navigation and pathfinding, a bit like Miasmata. There aren't many games like that, so take this as an opportunity.

"Fuck NeoGAF"

Haha. Evilore with the REAL comments.
 

neurosyphilis

Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
A bunch of fucking losers. Why I don't call myself a gamer, don't want to be mentioned with those inbred weirdos.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
"Fuck NeoGAF"

Haha. Evilore with the REAL comments.
Oh God this is fantastic lol

The other comments though, wow. Racists just don't give a shit about hiding anymore, thanks to YouTube.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
White supremacist shit biscuits acting as according to expectations. Fuck them, fuck PDP and fuck the environment that allows these scum to fester unchallenged.
 

Shifty

Member
Even if someone was fundamentally against YouTube strikes this is not the way to express it. It's not as if these developers have a history of abusive policy they made an exception to make an example out of one dickhead who noone feels sorry for.

Thanks for being the one poster with a reasonable response. Your points are fair, so I'll elaborate for the sake of discussion.

It's true that Campo are a decent studio that doesn't have a history of stuff like this. However, lack of history doesn't matter when you're setting the precedent of going to war using every tool available instead of simply standing up and saying "your actions are reprehensible, we refuse to be associated with you".
The DMCA system is enough of a hot topic in the youtube space as it is. Choosing the nuclear option and using it to add fuel to the fire is just going to make a bigger fire, as evidenced by the subject of this thread. A public denouncement would have accomplished the same goal without the fallout.

Yeah, blame the victim that had the gall to not want to be associated with blatant racism.

"I guess".

Interesting that you managed to extrapolate "it's Campo's own fault that they're associated with blatant racism" from "abusing systems to make a point is bad".
Because that's what 'victim blaming' means in the context you're trying to build a strawman with.

Appropriate username, this blatant "both sides" post matches it so well.
Oh wait, that's an "f", right? Never mind then.

If my post was such a prime example of a "both sides" argument, why are you resorting to a personal ad-hom attack instead of effortlessly shutting it down with reasoned anti-centrist rhetoric?

I mean,
Was this jab really necessary
 

L Thammy

Member
Victim blaming isn't a strawman, it's how you're actually framing things.

Regardless of what slippery slope you think the Firewatch devs may be crossing, their own actions are this. They didn't want to be associated with PewDiePie and his racism, so they took action against his existing videos.

Who is the prime mover in this situation? PewDiePie was already making money off of Campo Santo. That's where the relationship between the two started, by PewDiePie's actions rather than Campo Santo. You said that they tied themselves to racism but the alternative was that PewDiePie would continue to be associated with their product. There was nothing stopping them from filing the DMCA before, they simply decided to tolerate the videos. Now they feel like PewDiePie's racism is an issue and they are withdrawing that tolerance.

Talking about this as abuse of systems and the nuclear option is making this sound like Campo Santo is going out of their way to attack PewDiePie. But all PewDiePie has to do to stop this is not make money off videos of games without the creators' permission. I'm certain there are some developers that would take his side, so he can easily navigate this problem if he wanted.
 

Lyng

Member
There is literally no slippery slope with what Campo Santo did. I encourage anyone who believes it is to start wondering why no streamers want to bring this forward to the courts.

.

Because if they do a precedent might be set which would allow companies to abuse the system.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
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