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[Durrzerker]

Disclaimer: Any criticisms or complaints posted here are not meant to be taken as an attempt at objective complaints or knocks on the game. My problems with the game are wholly a product of what I learned about my tastes in playing it.



So I finally got a Switch last week due to being stuck doing nights at work with little to do (we are encouraged to play games or watch Netflix to stay awake, not much to do due to Hurricane Harvey cleanup shutting our plant down) and naturally my first game was BOTW. Few things going into this.


-This is my first Zelda game.

-This is my first Nintendo console

-I 100% played in Portable mode, never docked.


So tonight I took down Ganon and, uh...eh. In a nutshell I walked away from the game remarkably unimpressed, yet acknowledging the game itself is brilliant. What they did with BotW is incredibly impressive, I just learned a deep lesson that none of it is shit I care about in a game.

Let's talk about what I liked first. First off, the scale of the world and the inclusion of such complex physics is amazing. There were so many times I was floored by what I could do, like creating fires to make updrafts, tossing bombs that Octoroks would inhale, being able to leap off cliffs while carrying stuff with Daruks Protection - all very cool. I also enjoyed Link here. Despite being a silent protagonist his dialogue actually portrays him as kind of a shitty brat which I find hilarious.

BOTW is creative, well-designed, and a labor of love. I felt and enjoyed that. But...

All in all I didn't hate the game, I just walked away very...whelmed. My list of complaints grew longer, complaints I didn't expect. I learned about myself as a gamer, what I do and do not like, and I have BOTW to thank for it.

Let's discuss what I call my investment ratio. In every game, there is content I love and content I don't love. I'm willing to put up with X of the latter if I get Y of the former. Before BOTW I had only a vague sense of which was which. I could tell you games I loved but never really what I loved about them except in broad strokes. Same with games I hated. But as I played BOTW, my investment ratio constantly sputtered, and I learned why when I thought on it.


-I expect certain amounts of heavy 'story delivery' such as cutscenes in games. The longer the game, the more I want. I'm not talking about lore or worldbuilding (as you might expect I hate Dark Souls) but actual character cutscenes, with people conversing and shit happening. BOTW is very light on this, with only a few main story scenes and the 'captured memories' quests. In a six hour action game or the sort, I would have been fine, but for a game as staggeringly long as BOTW I was annoyed by the relative lack of story. I learned here a lot about why I love games like Witcher but hate hames like Soulsborne; because the longer a game is to me, the more attachment to the plot I want, and I get pissed off of I feel like I got shortshafted here. This theme of attachment is a frequent one, you will see.


-I have a strong need for aggression and viciousness in combat. For all Breath of the Wild does to encourage variety and creativity, my biggest problem is I never felt like I got a chance to just rip shit up. Again, this isn't me knocking the game. I play lots of roguelikes. I know the appeal of scarcity in games. But what I didn't realize until now is I get stressed and increasingly dissatisfied if I play a huge, open game and never reach the point of just being able to fearlessly rampage across the countryside. I identify heavily as a 'berserker' in games. Asura from Asura's Wrath is my ideal game protagonist, and in RPGs I always favor the warrior/barbarian/screaming psychopath. I grew up in a very controlled and powerless environment, and I gradually realized I seek a place to feel wild and crazy in games. Denying me this with constant need to watch out for silver enemies and my weapons breaking was frustrating in large part due to the length of the game. I feel like I got berserker blueballed.

-Permanent progression is critical to me and BOTW doesn't have enough. Yes, you upgrade armors and gain Champions Gifts, but the lack of a growing moveset on Link and the shortlived weapons sucked the fun out of combat for me. I like both action games and RPGs, but just as I expect a strong amount of story from RPGs, I want my endgamw character to feel nothing like he did at the beginning. Again, I realize that combat isn't the point of Zelda, but that brings me to the next point.

-I need a lot of combat or a lot of story or both. I don't invest much in anything else. I love action games. Ninja Gaiden is amazing. DMC is my jams. I love RPGs. They are my favorite genre, from Mass Effect to Tyranny to Witcher. But this is where the investment ratio comes in. I realized I play games for three things: sick loot, character story, and awesome new moves. When I go into a quest, I wanna come out of it with an awesome cutscene, a new sword, or a new special move. Not three FUCKING RADISHES YOU PIECE OF SHIT KOROK I WILL EAT YOUR GREEN BEAN LOOKING ASS.

Ahem.


Exploration. Adventure. Lore. Worldbuilding. Discovery. Creative problem solving. Puzzles. These are all things that BOTW does incredibly well. Speaking from a design standpoint, the game is probably a masterpiece, not that I'm qualified to say so. For people who love those things, I am glad BOTW exists. But I've realized those aspects of a game are like the spices to the meat and potatoes of story, combat development, and character growth to me. I don't care about exploration without the context of story. I've always wondered why I could never get into Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, or the like. They are great games, but I need a certain amount of these aspects per hour.


So in a way, even though I didn't like BOTW that much, I'm glad I played it. It taught me a lot about the kind of gamer I am, and the priorities I have in what I play.

On that note, Switch game recommendations very welcome.

 

[Yoshichan]

This game kept impressing me with its' physics throughout the entirety of it. When the early footage was out, I kept thinking "meh, this'll get boring very fast" - but I keep finding new ways of doing things.

My only negative being the lack of "real" dungeons. I truly miss the dungeon atmosphere of LttP/OoT.

 

[XP_version2]

In general, this is exactly how I feel.

I can appreciate the technical side of it, the physics and the freedom given to players in the world. But as actual game, a sum of it's part, it did very little for me.

Emergent gameplay moments seem to be the big thing at present and there's certainly a benefit to those easily gifable slices of gameplay that tell your own unique little stories but there has to be more wrapped around it. I want to be told a tale and taken on a quest and I just didn't feel that from BotW. Hopefully as a foundation they can flesh it out and make some great stuff going forward though.

 

[Durrzerker]

This game kept impressing me with its' physics throughout the entirety of it. When the early footage was out, I kept thinking "meh, this'll get boring very fast" - but I keep finding new ways of doing things.

My only negative being the lack of "real" dungeons. I truly miss the dungeon atmosphere of LttP/OoT.

Yeah in general whatever disappointment I had with the game I have to give them credit on the physics engine and such a large World especially on the hardware that the game is on. It really shows you how limited a lot of other developers have been while using open world as an excuse for why they cannot do more. I'm sure the small screen of the switch helped but I was impressed more than once by the graphics and physics especially the small touches that do not seem big on their own but add to the immersion. I laughed my ass off and felt terrible when I rode my horse to Death Mountain and the poor bastard just set on fire

 

[maxcriden]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I felt the game had some significant flaws for me personally also. I love most of the other Zelda games, though, and find then to be signficantly different from BOTW in many ways, so I hope you'll consider trying others.

As for a recommendation, I absolutely loved Snake Pass and found it to be my favorite Switch game so far. If you're interested in reading a detailed recommendation for it, my LTTP is here, but suffice it to say I found it to be a delightful new take on a platformer with a tough but very satisfying level design and brilliantly designed levels that are extremely satisfying to 100%.

 

[Durrzerker]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I felt the game had some significant flaws for me personally also. I love most of the other Zelda games, though, and find then to be signficantly different from BOTW in many ways, so I hope you'll consider trying others.

As for a recommendation, I absolutely loved Snake Pass and found it to be my favorite Switch game so far. If you're interested in reading a detailed recommendation for it, my LTTP is here, but suffice it to say I found it to be a delightful new take on a platformer with a tough but very satisfying level design and brilliantly designed levels that are extremely satisfying to 100%.

Well as I said this is my first Nintendo console so I don't even know if any other Zelda games are available on it yet. If they are I would definitely be willing to check them out since I feel like a lot of my problems with breath of the wild are unique to it and not the series as a whole. I might check out snake pass but in general I'm not really big on Platformers because they tend to be light on both story and combat which as I said are my two big draws to a video game.

 

[Jintor]

Great op, well written and well thought out.

Go in peace op. Or rage, if such is your preference

 

[Durrzerker]

Great op, well written and well thought out.

Go in peace op. Or rage, if such is your preference

Oh thank you I was a little bit worried because my entire opening post was written in voice to text due to only having phone access right now. But I literally just finished the game and I was eager to put my thoughts down on paper so to speak before they stopped being fresh.

 

[Renna Hazel]

I don't think the Switch has much to offer you at the moment. I'd really love a Ninja Gaiden style action game on the system (or better yet, Ninja Gaiden 4). It might be worth looking into Fire Emblem Warriors which comes out next month. That could possibly hit many of the right notes for you.

 

[Yoshichan]

Yeah seriously, this was an excellent OT.

 

[Durrzerker]

I don't think the Switch has much to offer you at the moment. I'd really love a Ninja Gaiden style action game on the system (or better yet, Ninja Gaiden 4). It might be worth looking into Fire Emblem Warriors which comes out next month. That could possibly hit many of the right notes for you.

I do love tactics games. When I say I love combat it doesn't necessarily have to be action combat. I just really like the general field of battle aesthetic. It can be turn based or real-time or isometric or whatever. I was looking at Mario X Rabbids because I'm a huge XCOM fan so I would probably like Fire Emblem as well.


Edit: I see warriors is like Hyrule Warriors, my bad. Also cool!

 

[EhoaVash]

If this is your first nintendo might as well give Mario odyssey a shot.

But yeah even as a bit Zelda fan, I quite disliked the progression in botw. It was....
unsatisfying.

If you want a Zelda with a good long story and progression play skyward sword if or when a switch port comes out.

 

[21x2]

I will always respect someone who can say "I dislike this thing, but I can recognize that it's brilliantly made".

I love BotW, even though I have some very tangible complaints about it, many of which I think would be easy to solve. My complaints are quite similar to yours, but they affected me less and I think I probably appreciated the highs of the game more. The only complaint of yours that I really don't share is the amount of story presented. I liked how sparse the core of it was, and that you could find more if you were interested enough. The story itself is probably my largest complaint with the game, but not how it's delivered.

Good write up

 

[papercan55]

Game had an amazing start and was fantastic in the exploration department early on but the world was too big and the lack of meaty dungeons really got to me after a while.
Every month that passes my opinion of the game lowers when i think about it, and that is purely to do with the lack of dungeons and lack of enemy variety, everything else about the game was almost perfect.
Trim the world size down and add a set of dungeons(LTTP) and i'd be far happier.

 

[XP_version2]

If you want a Zelda with a good long story and progression play skyward sword if or when a switch port comes out.

I need that port. Been holding off on a Wii replay for ages now.

 

[Durrzerker]

Yeah seriously, this was an excellent OT.

Yo, thank you! You guys are making me wanna adapt/edit this into an article for the site I write for. I get told by my editor to do more opinion pieces.

If this is your first nintendo might as well give Mario odyssey a shot.

But yeah even as a bit Zelda fan, I quite disliked the progression in botw. It was....
unsatisfying.

If you want a Zelda with a good long story and progression play skyward sword if or when a switch port comes out.

I probably will play any Zelda ports the Switch gets. As for Odyssey, it depends. I don't hate platformers but I don't love them, depends on other factors.

I will always respect someone who can say "I dislike this thing, but I can recognize that it's brilliantly made".

I love BotW, even though I have some very tangible complaints about it, many of which I think would be easy to solve. My complaints are quite similar to yours, but they affected me less and I think I probably appreciated the highs of the game more. The only complaint of yours that I really don't share is the amount of story presented. I liked how sparse the core of it was, and that you could find more if you were interested enough. The story itself is probably my largest complaint with the game, but not how it's delivered.

Good write up

I understand that! I know some people like lighter story. For me, I don't mind it, but if a game is 20+ hours, it needs to have a lot of story or I can't get into it. I don't mind a lack of story in shorter games.

 

[HStallion]

OP you'd probably love Horizon Zero Dawn and that is not to knock BotW what-so-ever. It sounds far more in your wheel house in terms of story and combat aspects.

 

[Durrzerker]

OP you'd probably love Horizon Zero Dawn and that is not to knock BotW what-so-ever. It sounds far more in your wheel house in terms of story and combat.

Potentially! I don't have a PS4 though so I'm out of luck. I'm a PC gamer primarily, Switch is my first console this gen.

 

[Renna Hazel]

I do love tactics games. When I say I love combat it doesn't necessarily have to be action combat. I just really like the general field of battle aesthetic. It can be turn based or real-time or isometric or whatever. I was looking at Mario X Rabbids because I'm a huge XCOM fan so I would probably like Fire Emblem as well.


Edit: I see warriors is like Hyrule Warriors, my bad. Also cool!

Yeah, FE Warriors is like Hyrule Warriors, so if you've played that before, you know what to expect. There is a traditional FE game coming next year as well if you're also into that. Mario X Rabbids is a pretty fantastic game. I've never played XCOM but that's what everyone compares it to, so it wouldn't hurt to give it a look if that's your thing.

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

It has been great reading the different opinions this game in particular has brought. Yours is one of the more interesting I had read. I find myself to be on the opposite to what you said OP, I too thought story, progression and such were vital parts of games for me (The Last of Us, Xenoblade Chronicles and Majora's Mask being some of my favourite single player games) and when I think about it that is definitely still true, for most game from most developers I wouldn't expect me to enjoy a typical exploration game, heck even specifically for Zelda, I've never been compelled to play through the NES game and I feel The Wind Waker was sorely lacking in this area, but BoTW consistently kept me immersed in the exploration and the sense that I was going through my own journey my own way, something pretty much no other game I've played has managed to do. Especially when compared to a lot of games released in the last several years where actual controlling of the protagonist and their movements was/is limited and boring, this game was the exact opposite.

So in a way I agree with you, I'd certainly not seek more of this experience, mainly because I doubt it'd be executed as well elsewhere. But as far as this game itself is concerned I feel the opposite, I was very impressed with it.

 

[Lilo_D]

Really well-written!

I always think BOTW is a game that really depends on the player
For me this game has the magic and freedom to drive me totally depends on my own curiosity, just remind me of my childhood, and I don't need a story or urgency because this is basically the player's story

Glad you play this game OP!

 

[Durrzerker]

Really well-written!

I always think BOTW is a game that really depends on the player
For me this game has the magic and freedom to drive me totally depends on my own curiosity, just remind me of my childhood, and I don't need a story or urgency because this is basically the player's story

Glad you play this game OP!

Yeah I totally get that! I suppose if one was cynical they could say that I'm just not very creative. The game gave me 100 ways to dispatch enemies but I only ever really cared about being able to dive in and cut them down. But I think the truth is I let my creativity manifest elsewhere [I'm an aspiring novelist, and I write a shitload of words a day currently] and when it comes to games, I think I really value the idea of being taken on an experience of sorts, seeing what they can give me.


BOTW is awesome, I just don't have the brainpower in gaming mode for it, hah.

 

[ajjow]

OP, did you like thw witcher 3!?

 

[Durrzerker]

OP, did you like thw witcher 3!?

Definitely, one of my top 5 games of all time, easily.

 

[Lilo_D]

Yeah I totally get that! I suppose if one was cynical they could say that I'm just not very creative. The game gave me 100 ways to dispatch enemies but I only ever really cared about being able to dive in and cut them down. But I think the truth is I let my creativity manifest elsewhere [I'm an aspiring novelist, and I write a shitload of words a day currently] and when it comes to games, I think I really value the idea of being taken on an experience of sorts, seeing what they can give me.


BOTW is awesome, I just don't have the brainpower in gaming mode for it, hah.

Annnd I wanna say you may see a lot of posts said the dungeon is not good, the character or progress or something else are not good blahblah compare to older games, but keep in mind this game is just a totally TOTALLY different experience compare to older zelda games, I don't want to say which one is better.

But prepare yourself before you try older zelda games and hope you enjoy this legendary series

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Interesting read. Personally, I enjoy the modern Souls-y minimalist story telling approach Zelda and many other games have these days, but I can see how one prefers the traditional way of storytelling.

 

[Geminosity]

So tonight I took down Ganon and, uh...eh. In a nutshell I walked away from the game remarkably unimpressed, yet acknowledging the game itself is brilliant. What they did with BotW is incredibly impressive, I just learned a deep lesson that none of it is shit I care about in a game.

...

-I have a strong need for aggression and viciousness in combat. For all Breath of the Wild does to encourage variety and creativity, my biggest problem is I never felt like I got a chance to just rip shit up. Again, this isn't me knocking the game. I play lots of roguelikes. I know the appeal of scarcity in games. But what I didn't realize until now is I get stressed and increasingly dissatisfied if I play a huge, open game and never reach the point of just being able to fearlessly rampage across the countryside. I identify heavily as a 'berserker' in games. Asura from Asura's Wrath is my ideal game protagonist, and in RPGs I always favor the warrior/barbarian/screaming psychopath. I grew up in a very controlled and powerless environment, and I gradually realized I seek a place to feel wild and crazy in games. Denying me this with constant need to watch out for silver enemies and my weapons breaking was frustrating in large part due to the length of the game. I feel like I got berserker blueballed.

-Permanent progression is critical to me and BOTW doesn't have enough. Yes, you upgrade armors and gain Champions Gifts, but the lack of a growing moveset on Link and the shortlived weapons sucked the fun out of combat for me. I like both action games and RPGs, but just as I expect a strong amount of story from RPGs, I want my endgamw character to feel nothing like he did at the beginning. Again, I realize that combat isn't the point of Zelda

Interesting stuff, though the combat part kind of puzzled me: you didn't feel like an unstoppable crazy person by the end?

Once I'd practiced deflecting guardian shots back at them (with some cruddy shields so I didn't break my good ones) and realised I could actually cut their legs off pretty easily I think the only thing that remained remotely threatening were the silver Lynels and by the time I'd got a few of them down just for parts for the beserker armour each fight with them eventually felt very easy too ...I mean, I never took it to the extreme some did, but I certainly didn't feel any apprehension when I accidentally barrelled head-first into one anymore :3

Then again, as I explored I did learn where increasily powerful weapons would reliably respawn (for example, a royal claymore can always be found atop the skull above one of the towers) so I never really had a shortage of high quality weapons so maybe that coloured my impressions of consistent power growth, as I seemed to have luckily been finding them about the time I'd be finding equivalent weapons in the shrines? (also a few cheeky visits to restock at hyrule castle never hurt :3 )

Or when you say rampage is it less "I dont feel threatened and can run around like a bloodthirsty lunatic" and more something in the higher extremes like Dynasty Warriors vs fodder units where you reap things in the hundreds with no risk of any damage at all, let alone death and you don't have to care about openings or timing at all?

I ask because I've noticed I can get extremely bloodthirsty in combat games, but I need some element of resistance to quench it: even if I don't feel threatened there still needs to be something for me to overcome otherwise boredom seeps in for me. In the later hours of BotW I definitely found myself frequently running/riding across the plains just hacking everything in sight down with no fear, but with at least a little sliver of mindfulness required that I needed to keep myself engaged.

This isn't a critique of what you said but more some confuzzlement of how our experience of those particular parts differered and what the core reasons might be. It may just be we enjoy a different kind of frothing killing madness? :3

 

[EhoaVash]

It's weird but for the first 80so hours? I felt like the progression was pretty good but after the 3rd or 4th town/dungeon visit things felt pretty boring or unexciting not to mention bosses in this game were pretty shit
So fighting ganondorf was very underwelming not to mention that ending :/ I did managed to beat the. Game after 146 hours so at least I found it fun for half of that

 

[Turrican3]

But what I didn't realize until now is I get stressed and increasingly dissatisfied if I play a huge, open game and never reach the point of just being able to fearlessly rampage across the countryside.

Hmm that seems a bit strange to me, the only enemy I ended up (mostly) avoiding altogether was the Lynel, and even that is somewhat a personal issue of mine, I've seen plenty of videos where people easily destroy them (I swear I tried, but I still can't do that)

the lack of a growing moveset on Link and the shortlived weapons sucked the fun out of combat for me. I like both action games and RPGs, but just as I expect a strong amount of story from RPGs, I want my endgamw character to feel nothing like he did at the beginning.

I'm not sure I understand this either... your endgame Link - assuming a decent amount of hours put into the game - should indeed have been a FAR more powerful character.

Technically speaking on paper there should have been a growing moveset as well.

Anyway, I really liked the way you put your criticism on the game, bravo!

 

[Durrzerker]

Interesting stuff, though the combat part kind of puzzled me: you didn't feel like an unstoppable crazy person by the end?

Once I'd practiced deflecting guardian shots back at them (with some cruddy shields so I didn't break my good ones) and realised I could actually cut their legs off pretty easily I think the only thing that remained remotely threatening were the silver Lynels and by the time I'd got a few of them down just for parts for the beserker armour each fight with them eventually felt very easy too ...I mean, I never took it to the extreme some did, but I certainly didn't feel any apprehension when I accidentally barrelled head-first into one anymore :3

Then again, as I explored I did learn where increasily powerful weapons would reliably respawn (for example, a royal claymore can always be found atop the skull above one of the towers) so I never really had a shortage of high quality weapons so maybe that coloured my impressions of consistent power growth, as I seemed to have luckily been finding them about the time I'd be finding equivalent weapons in the shrines? (also a few cheeky visits to restock at hyrule castle never hurt :3 )

Or when you say rampage is it less "I dont feel threatened and can run around like a bloodthirsty lunatic" and more something in the higher extremes like Dynasty Warriors vs fodder units where you reap things in the hundreds with no risk of any damage at all, let alone death and you don't have to care about openings or timing at all?

I ask because I've noticed I can get extremely bloodthirsty in combat games, but I need some element of resistance to quench it: even if I don't feel threatened there still needs to be something for me to overcome otherwise boredom seeps in for me. In the later hours of BotW I definitely found myself frequently running/riding across the plains just hacking everything in sight down with no fear, but with at least a little sliver of mindfulness required that I needed to keep myself engaged.

This isn't a critique of what you said but more some confuzzlement of how our experience of those particular parts differered and what the core reasons might be. It may just be we enjoy a different kind of frothing killing madness? :3

Hmm that seems a bit strange to me, the only enemy I ended up (mostly) avoiding altogether was the Lynel, and even that is somewhat a personal issue of mine, I've seen plenty of videos where people easily destroy them (I swear I tried, but I still can't do that)


I'm not sure I understand this either... your endgame Link - assuming a decent amount of hours put into the game - should indeed have been a FAR mor powerful character.

Technically speaking on paper there should have been a growing moveset as well.

Anyway, I really liked the way you put your criticism on the game, bravo!

It's somewhat the latter, but moreso it's about a lack of growth in my moveset. When I say I wanna feel powerful, I don't just mean that I have more Hp and do more damage. I want new moves. I want longer combos. To me, power is about being -visceral- as much as it is strong, and going from doing 10 damage a swing to enemies with 50 HP vs. 100 a swing to 500 HP enemies is meaningless growth to me. Yeah, I could two-shot random moblins and stuff I found, but I was still just swinging a sword like a goof. I didn't develop a sense of feeling like I was more of a -threat- in a primal sense.

It's hard to articulate, but I guess you could say that it's as much about feeling like I'm gaining entirely new powers as it is hitting harder. I crave that shonen-style powerup. I definitely was stronger by the end of the game, and feared few enemies, but ultimately, it came down to the fact that I felt like I was killing my enemies the same way post-Ganon as I was in the plateau. I didn't feel like I had a lot more new options. Mostly just the Champions powers.

Compare it to, say, Dragon's Dogma, my favorite open world ARPG. A level 30 character is nothing like a level 1.

Another big part of it is taking down bigger things more easily. For example, Talus. Yes, I could kill their weak spot faster, but I felt annoyed I never got strong enough to just crash into their ankle and still hurt them. I feel like a perfect powerup would have been eventually getting so strong I could hit them anywhere and it'd hurt. That woulda made me feel insane.

 

[Greedings]

Good post.

I'll never understand people who love cutscenes. They're the least interesting aspect of any game to me. To the point that I skip most of them, or look at my phone.

I'm here to play, not to watch.

 

[Geminosity]

It's somewhat the latter, but moreso it's about a lack of growth in my moveset. When I say I wanna feel powerful, I don't just mean that I have more Hp and do more damage. I want new moves. I want longer combos. To me, power is about being -visceral- as much as it is strong, and going from doing 10 damage a swing to enemies with 50 HP vs. 100 a swing to 500 HP enemies is meaningless growth to me. Yeah, I could two-shot random moblins and stuff I found, but I was still just swinging a sword like a goof. I didn't develop a sense of feeling like I was more of a -threat- in a primal sense.

It's hard to articulate, but I guess you could say that it's as much about feeling like I'm gaining entirely new powers as it is hitting harder. I crave that shonen-style powerup. I definitely was stronger by the end of the game, and feared few enemies, but ultimately, it came down to the fact that I felt like I was killing my enemies the same way post-Ganon as I was in the plateau. I didn't feel like I had a lot more new options. Mostly just the Champions powers.

Compare it to, say, Dragon's Dogma, my favorite open world ARPG. A level 30 character is nothing like a level 1.

Ah, no, that makes sense actually. You mean a more distinctly visual difference in how your character engages in combat. So it looks more powerful/graceful/skilled than what you did at the start.

In BotW you might be swinging flaming longswords rather than a stick by the end but it's still the same swinging animations as opposed to Dragon's Crown elf starting by shooting people and ending with crazy combos of gravity-suspending barrages of arrows floating herself across the battlefield and turning her enemies into pincushions in a matter of seconds. I can understand that with those extra bits of detail :3

 

[Crayolan]

I think you might enjoy Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword more as far as Zelda games go, though if the only Nintendo device you own is a Switch you have no way of playing them.

 

[Durrzerker]

Good post.

I'll never understand people who love cutscenes. They're the least interesting aspect of any game to me. To the point that I skip most of them, or look at my phone.

I'm here to play, not to watch.

I'm the opposite, I guess! I love even very cutscene-heavy games. Asura's Wrath is another entry in my top 5 of all time.

Ah, no, that makes sense actually. You mean a more distinctly visual difference in how your character engages in combat. So it looks more powerful/graceful/skilled than what you did at the start.

In BotW you might be swinging flaming longswords rather than a stick by the end but it's still the same swinging animations as opposed to Dragon's Crown elf starting by shooting people and ending with crazy combos of gravity-suspending barrages of arrows floating herself across the battlefield and turning her enemies into pincushions in a matter of seconds. I can understand that with those extra bits of detail :3

Yeah exactly. It's about the kinaesthetic development. How it looks and -feels- to kill. I don't care if I'm ten times stronger if I don't -feel- ten times more badass.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

While I mostly disagree with the content, this is a great op.

 

[watdaeff4]

Great post OP. While I love BotW, your post was clearly well thought-out and reasoned.

If no one mentioned it already, since this is your first Nintendo console and you mention that you like story-heavy games.......

That's not Nintendo games in general. (yes, there are exceptions) Think more Dark Souls and Zelda, and less Witcher.

 

[OléGunner]

Great text from you OP there.
I have similar gripes that you have.

The lack of a meaty story is rough, tbh it's quite laughable.
A bit more cut scenes, background and exposition would be great especially for us first time Zelda players. Probably too used to getting great lore and story from games like Witcher 3, Horizon ZD etc.

But more importantly the lack of actual progression for Link is a bigger deal for me.
I just don't feel myself getting more powerful after like 80 hours, mainly the champion gifts help with this.

Getting better armour and weapons is never consistent and honestly a bit of a drag.

After spending that much time with BoTW, the game sorta has played it's hand which is fine after such long playing time.

But now I just want to kill Gannon and be done with it.

Still, a marvelous gaming experience without a doubt!

 

[Durrzerker]

Great post OP. While I love BotW, your post was clearly well thought-out and reasoned.

If no one mentioned it already, since this is your first Nintendo console and you mention that you like story-heavy games.......

That's not Nintendo games in general. (yes, there are exceptions) Think more Dark Souls and Zelda, and less Witcher.

Well, I didn't have a ton of handheld options, and I'm willing to try new things. I think Mario x Rabbids will be worth the buy, and I don't regret getting Zelda, even if I didn't love it. Even in games we dislike, we can learn a lot going forward! Zelda encouraged me to knock four games off my wishlist that I'm no longer thinking I'd enjoy, so it was productive in its own way.

While I mostly disagree with the content, this is a great op.

Thank you! You guys are making me wanna do more LTTPs in the future as I work through my [massive] backlog.

 

[dab0ne]

Nicely put op. I didn't beat the game but I've played enough to know it's not for me. For some reason I couldn't shake this feeling that it was trying to play like the witcher 3 to some extent. I was playing both and every time I started playing Zelda I thought "I'd rather be playing the witcher". The world felt more alive, combat was more fun, and story was way more engaging. Maybe I'll give it another go sometime when I'm not distracted by other games.

 

[Yoshi]

Well as I said this is my first Nintendo console so I don't even know if any other Zelda games are available on it yet. If they are I would definitely be willing to check them out since I feel like a lot of my problems with breath of the wild are unique to it and not the series as a whole. I might check out snake pass but in general I'm not really big on Platformers because they tend to be light on both story and combat which as I said are my two big draws to a video game.

While I share Max' taste in most ways, I do not think that you will like Zelda much if your self description is fitting.
- past Zeldas focused a lot more on puzzles, which you said you do not like in BotW (where they are almost an afterthought and play a much smallere role than in the rest of the series)
- combat was usually less of a focus
- story is usually quite weak, though not as weak as in BotW. The big exception is Majora's Mask, which has an amazing story, but it lives (as any good Zelda story) more off the fantastic moments it offers than off the overarching plot

However, you have some advantages:
- The story, weak as it may be from a plot perspective, is well-paced throughout the game, presented in form of cut scenes. All 3D Zeldas offer a significant amount of cutscenes in between the dungeons (which are the main gameplay focus in all Zeldas except Majora and BotW)
- You will be able to carelessly kill enemies in the latter half of the game and (almost) no enemy is ever such an immediate threat as to kill you in one shot. The combat system is simpler than in BotW though, offering less options and those battles that actually matter are more puzzle like

So far, no other Zelda games are available on Switch, but I expect that to change.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

This is a fantastic write up. It's similar to my feelings regarding BotW, and is written in a way that offers clear criticism without being dismissive of the many things the game does well. It's refreshing to see a non-antagonistic LTTP of a popular game.

 

[deleted]

I can see where you're coming from OP - that's a totally fair opinion.

I'm coming from a completely different perspective. I enjoy stealth in games the most. I was awestruck that Wolfenstein managed to enable stealth gameplay that often and I enjoyed the game way more for that.

I try to circumvent battles whenever I can. I enjoy the feeling of an enemy that is way stronger that I am. And that stays stronger throughout the game where I have to find ways to not engage to him or to have the upper hand from the start. So I didn't engage in combat and tried to invest more into stamina whenever I could. I had to prepare for bossfights - cook and plan ahead. I had to stay out of Lionels way most of the time because they where still way stronger than me and I only made up with better arrows, armor weapons and the gifts. They could still wreck me in two or three strikes if I wasn't careful.

My enjoyment of the game came down a little because it became so much easier when I went through the beasts and had the gifts afterwards. When Ganon didn't prove to be much of a hassle after all that buildup.
But all the little stories and the places and characters will stay with me. People reacting different depending on the weather, children running out in the morning and playing on the streets and following you around. Quests opening up depending on stuff I did before. The world felt lived in and I cared for all the places which made it the first open world game I completed so far. And I plan to go back and do more shrines and solve some more quests which is unheard of from me. Oh and Pro-Mode for life.

For me this was the best singleplayer experience since possibly Mario 64. Haven't felt more awestruck by a game in ages.

But I can totally see that not everyone played the game the same way and some people are burnt out on open world and might not like it that much.

 

[Greedings]

I'm the opposite, I guess! I love even very cutscene-heavy games. Asura's Wrath is another entry in my top 5 of all time.

Each to their own.

I'm a bit surprised by you not liking the combat, but reading your further replies, I understand why. I found the combat really rewarding in BotW.

I'm curious, do you like the combat Souls games? The combat in there isn't too dissimilar to BotW, in that you don't really gain more moves, you are just incrementally more powerful from finding weapons and levelling up.

 

[Durrzerker]

While I share Max' taste in most ways, I do not think that you will like Zelda much if your self description is fitting.
- past Zeldas focused a lot more on puzzles, which you said you do not like in BotW (where they are almost an afterthought and play a much smallere role than in the rest of the series)
- combat was usually less of a focus
- story is usually quite weak, though not as weak as in BotW. The big exception is Majora's Mask, which has an amazing story, but it lives (as any good Zelda story) more off the fantastic moments it offers than off the overarching plot

However, you have some advantages:
- The story, weak as it may be from a plot perspective, is well-paced throughout the game, presented in form of cut scenes. All 3D Zeldas offer a significant amount of cutscenes in between the dungeons (which are the main gameplay focus in all Zeldas except Majora and BotW)
- You will be able to carelessly kill enemies in the latter half of the game and (almost) no enemy is ever such an immediate threat as to kill you in one shot. The combat system is simpler than in BotW though, offering less options and those battles that actually matter are more puzzle like

So far, no other Zelda games are available on Switch, but I expect that to change.

I think it'd be good for me. Oddly enough, I don't even need a story to be -good-. I just like watching cutscenes. I have a thing for them. I'm not sure why.

I can see where you're coming from OP - that's a totally fair opinion.

I'm coming from a completely different perspective. I enjoy stealth in games the most. I was awestruck that Wolfenstein managed to enable stealth gameplay that often and I enjoyed the game way more for that.

I try to circumvent battles whenever I can. I enjoy the feeling of an enemy that is way stronger that I am. And that stays stronger throughout the game where I have to find ways to not engage to him or to have the upper hand from the start. So I didn't engage in combat and tried to invest more into stamina whenever I could. I had to prepare for bossfights - cook and plan ahead. I had to stay out of Lionels way most of the time because they where still way stronger than me and I only made up with better arrows, armor weapons and the gifts. They could still wreck me in two or three strikes if I wasn't careful.

My enjoyment of the game came down a little because it became so much easier when I went through the beasts and had the gifts afterwards. When Ganon didn't prove to be much of a hassle after all that buildup.
But all the little stories and the places and characters will stay with me. People reacting different depending on the weather, children running out in the morning and playing on the streets and following you around. Quests opening up depending on stuff I did before. The world felt lived in and I cared for all the places which made it the first open world game I completed so far. And I plan to go back and do more shrines and solve some more quests which is unheard of from me. Oh and Pro-Mode for life.

For me this was the best singleplayer experience since possibly Mario 64. Haven't felt more awestruck by a game in ages.

But I can totally see that not everyone played the game the same way and some people are burnt out on open world and might not like it that much.

I can see that! And I totally am glad the game resonated for you. I don't fear difficulty - I went to the Zora domain first, and the very first thing I did when I found the Lynel was fight the fucker until it went down. I had four hearts, garbage weapons, and it took almost two hours, but I did it. I enjoyed it, a highlight of the game.

I just like having a certain exponential power growth in games, I suppose. I get impatient/bored if my style doesn't change significantly.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I enjoyed the game a lot for a while but like all open world games I eventually got bored of it. No interest in finishing it unfortunately.

 

[Durrzerker]

Each to their own.

I'm a bit surprised by you not liking the combat, but reading your further replies, I understand why. I found the combat really rewarding in BotW.

I'm curious, do you like the combat Souls games? The combat in there isn't too dissimilar to BotW, in that you don't really gain more moves, you are just incrementally more powerful from finding weapons and levelling up.

I'm not sure what you mean by combat Souls. If you mean the combat in Souls games, or Dark Souls as a whole, then no, I don't like those games.

I don't hate them, and for some reason I always buy them on launch and beat them, but I always walk away disappointed. I feel like they come frustratingly close to being wonderful games for me, but never quite hit the mark. I like them just enough to buy them but always feel disappointed after I finish, like a forty-five year old man in a trenchcoat purchasing the one VHS he doesn't recognize the title of from an adult video store.

 

[catpurrcat]

Great post OP. I stopped BOTW halfway in April, sold it, and now have come back to it because unlike anything I have played this year, I miss the feeling of isolation. Yes, you read that right.

I posted in another thread my confusion of the likes that YT gameplay videos and celebrities commenting on games while people watch. I don't get the appeal. The reason is that video games ARE my quiet time. And Zelda does that incredibly well. It's tranquility is very appealing despite the collect-a-thon annoyances like food gathering. Even when action appears it's a controlled chaos, where you have to gather your wits to face a boss or a horde of monsters.

There are no announcers, minimal dialogue, and few cutscenes. The world is varied, quiet, somewhat stale, and vast.

I love Nioh but hit a challenge wall, and the corridor limitations are nearly stressful. Witcher is a nice hybrid in a way but if the story doesn't appeal then it's also a hard one to get into for newcomers.

 

[Durrzerker]

Great post OP. I stopped BOTW halfway in April, sold it, and now have come back to it because unlike anything I have played this year, I miss the feeling of isolation. Yes, you read that right.

I posted in another thread my confusion of the likes that YT gameplay videos and celebrities commenting on games while people watch. I don't get the appeal. The reason is that video games ARE my quiet time. And Zelda does that incredibly well. It's tranquility is very appealing despite the collect-a-thon annoyances like food gathering. Even when action appears it's a controlled chaos, where you have to gather your wits to face a boss or a horde of monsters.

I love Nioh but hit a challenge wall, and the corridor limitations are nearly stressful. Witcher is a nice hybrid in a way but if the story doesn't appeal then it's also a hard one to get into for newcomers.

I totally get that. If there's something BOTW undeniably nails, it's the idea of being in an unfriendly world. It's got a post-apocalyptic feel to it, in the 'nature overtakes' way more than the 'irradiated wasteland' way. I appreciated that aspect. Reminded me of Enslaved: Odyssey to the West.

 

[Markoman]

OP, I feel the same. I've been gaming for more than 30 years now. Never owned a Nintendo console until WiiU. As a kid I've played the first Zelda at a friend and it instantly created a kind of GOAT gaming mythos for me that survived until this year. Sadly after having played WW, TP and BotW over the last years on my WiiU I've realized that this may not be the series for me and -with Zelda being one Nintendo's staple franchises- that Nintendo games in general are just not my cup of tea. I appreciate the creativity and gameplay mechanics, but something is missing for me. So yeah, with Zelda being my last Nintendo game so far it took me quite a while to get it.

 

[Steejee]

Good writeup OP.

I'm the inverse - BotW is one of my favorite games of all time, possibly #1. I bought it at release day and am still playing it. I don't consider it flawless, but it's rare that any game can make me want to just explore, experiment, and experience the universe it's created.

I'm curious how old you are - I'm in my mid 30s and played the first Zelda back on the original NES and have played almost all of them to this point. Cutscenes to me are still a novelty at times, a break in the actual game that need to enhance the gameplay in some way. Combat can be a myriad of different things, even within the Zelda series there have been a few varieties and I find BotW's just as fun as say Arkham Asylum's, for completely different reasons.

I love strong storylines, but I enjoy something that's almost 100% story driven like The Longest Journey just as much as something where story is entirely through the environment and backstory like Metroid Prime, or something totally devoid of story that is just pure gameplay.

Oh and I found the Gannon fight amazing, as well as the run up, in BotW, but I took a different path - I first beat him with the Gerudo and Rito beasts still up, so the fight was pretty damn challenging and epic. I didn't really find the progression lacking - I'm comically overpowered with the gear and four divine abilities now. Not many stats to raise up besides defense, but I did feel progression.

I guess short version is it's interesting to read the opposite take on the game from someone who still respects it for what it is. You might want to stick to a rent for Odyssey - it should be amazing, but given your criteria it could leave you with the same feeling as Zelda.