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Rare boss reiterates no old IP revival unless completely paradigm shifting idea

Salty Hippo

Member
Interesting part starts at 36:20, he mostly talks about his career path until that time. Actual old IP part starts at 51:54 and goes on until the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsPqLk7G6G0

This is to the surprise of no one that actively follows Rare news. He has said this a few times since he got the job, but I still think it's interesting that he keeps doubling down on it.

Basically what he's saying is there can only be a new Banjo, for instance, if they find a way to pull a Nuts & Bolts all over again. There's so much wrong with this interview I don't even know where to begin. The guy is so incredibly narrow minded and the fact that he even humours the idea of doing a new Banjo that really doesn't play like Banjo after the reception to N&B really says it all. He also says "we don't want to "REMAKE" the same game with new graphics", as if that's what fans actually want. No, Craig. We want new games, not remakes. Unless you consider a game like Mario Odyssey to be a "remake" of Mario 64, in which case that's what we want.

Banjo's gameplay has aged and I don't think a new one should copy every aspect of the original. It would need to be modernized for today's standards, but it should definitely still resemble the old premise, unlike the bizarre N&B. Add more platforming, make traversal more fun and dynamic, maybe go crazy with transformations to add a ton of variety and keep everything else mostly intact. Just look at Odyssey, that game borrows quite some design philosophies from Banjo and it's a blueprint for what a modern Banjo should be like. But Craig Duncan simply doesn't believe in the genre at all. He uses the baffling "we've already done a game like this, once" argument and puts a crazy idea as a condition to go back to it, "something so groundbreaking and innovative that nobody else in the industry is doing it!!!".

He's not wrong about the Banjo property not being relevant in the mass market today. It would almost certainly not be a huge seller. But he completely ignores any possibility for a more scaled down game with a smart budget that could make fans happy and be financially viable. The interviewer, Hyle Russel, who is a huge Rare fan and a person I like a lot, doesn't help by not questioning any of Craig Duncan's several lazy arguments.

It's also funny how he bitches about this Gamespot article and then double downs on the condescending "you may think you want this game, but I don't think you do".
 

Chinbo37

Member
I dunno I never found this approach completely convincing. Nintendo often says the same thing (IE Fzero).

Are you telling me that no one would want to play an awesome modern perfect dark with a kick ass single player campaign?
 

flkraven

Member
Basically what he's saying is there can only be a new Banjo, for instance, if they find a way to pull a Nuts & Bolts all over again. There's so much wrong with this interview I don't even know where to begin. The guy is so incredibly narrow minded and the fact that he even humours the idea of doing a new Banjo that really doesn't play like Banjo after the reception to N&B really says it all.
What if I told you N&B was the best Banjo game?
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
This will understandably disappoint people but honestly, I'm fine with it. Rare seems interesting in forging a new identity and Microsoft seems to want them to be a new IP factory.

Plus as we've seen with Killer Instinct, IP revivals don't necessarily need to be handled by Rare.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Pretty much all Rare news is depressing these days. They were my second favorite company and a huge part of the industry for me. It's a shame that they refuse to work on the things that made them great. I'll always cling on to hope that the old Rare will return, but I've mostly moved on. This interview doesn't give me much hope. Oh well.
 
I don’t think I want to see Rare develop a new banjo either. Give it to somebody else like they did with KI. Keep Rare as a new up factory. Or sea of thieves.
 

Shifty

Member
Isn't present-day rare more or less a completely different company to N64-era rare in terms of staff anyway?

I doubt there's any real drive there to revisit their older IP. Though if you don't want to do a remake or Banjo Threeie, for the love of god don't Nuts and Bolts it again. Just don't touch. Sell the license to people who care.
 

RedZaraki

Banned
You might as well re-brand this developer then because there's literally ZERO relationship to their past stuff anymore.

None of the same people, none of the same IPs.

What is even the fucking point? The games they make nowadays are garbage.
 
Isn't present-day rare more or less a completely different company to N64-era rare in terms of staff?

I doubt there's any real drive there to revisit their older IP. Though if you don't want to do a remake or Banjo Threeie, for the love of god don't Nuts and Bolts it again. Just don't touch. Sell the license to people who do care or something.

You might as well re-brand this developer then because there's literally ZERO relationship to their past stuff anymore.

None of the same people, none of the same IPs.

What is even the fucking point? The games they make nowadays are garbage.


There's one notable staff member left: Gregg Mayles. He was the lead designer behind the first two DKC games, all the Banjo games (not counting the GBA spinoffs), Viva Pinata, etc and was essentially the mastermind of those games. He's still at Rare working on Sea of Thieves.
 

G0523

Member
Basically what he's saying is there can only be a new Banjo, for instance, if they find a way to pull a Nuts & Bolts all over again. There's so much wrong with this interview I don't even know where to begin. The guy is so incredibly narrow minded and the fact that he even humours the idea of doing a new Banjo that really doesn't play like Banjo after the reception to N&B really says it all. He also says "we don't want to "REMAKE" the same game with new graphics", as if that's what fans actually want. No, Craig. We want new games, not remakes. Unless you consider a game like Mario Odyssey to be a "remake" of Mario 64, in which case that's what we want.

Banjo's gameplay has aged and I don't think a new one should copy every aspect of the original. It would need to be modernized for today's standards, but it should definitely still resemble the old premise, unlike the bizarre N&B. Add more platforming, make traversal more fun and dynamic, maybe go crazy with transformations to add a ton of variety and keep everything else mostly intact. Just look at Odyssey, that game borrows quite some design philosophies from Banjo and it's a blueprint for what a modern Banjo should be like. But Craig Duncan simply doesn't believe in the genre at all. He uses the baffling "we've already done a game like this, once" argument and puts a crazy idea as a condition to go back to it, "something so groundbreaking and innovative that nobody else in the industry is doing it!!!".

He's not wrong about the Banjo property not being relevant in the mass market today. It would almost certainly not be a huge seller. But he completely ignores any possibility for a more scaled down game with a smart budget that could make fans happy and be financially viable. The interviewer, Hyle Russel, who is a huge Rare fan and a person I like a lot, doesn't help by not questioning any of Craig Duncan's several lazy arguments.

He sounds like a great employee of Microsoft, not Rare, in that they want new ideas and new games, but not care about anything that they've already done. I also find it ironic that he says that older games like Banjo are not relevant anymore, but they wouldn't be irrelevant if they hadn't killed the franchise. The games were doing just fine until 2002 when everything got bought out and shaken up by Microsoft and everything just went to shit.

Sure, now Rare has a "new future" starting with Sea of Thieves, but what else do they have? If they're putting all their support behind this one game and it doesn't do well, then what? That's the problem with working on just one game and cancelling the others left and right because they don't "fit" with Microsoft's vision.
 

-MD-

Member
Rare was for a long time my favorite studio, sad to think it's been ~12 years since they released a game I really clicked with.

They're in better shape than the awful Kinect years but it's still rough times for a Rare fan.
 

SexyFish

Banned
What if I told you N&B was the best Banjo game?

giphy.webp
 
Rebrand as microsoft studios twycross and sell the name and IPs to someone who gives a shit please
Rare rarely ever reused ips I don't understand the frustration. The best part of rare is the fact that they're a new ip factory. I know some of you want to relive old platformers but i rather them create new experiences
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Rare rarely ever reused ips I don't understand the frustration. The best part of rare is the fact that they're a new ip factory. I know some of you want to relive old platformers but i rather them create new experiences

This would be nice as well, but it's been nearly 10 years since Rare has done anything relevant. I'd love for them to create great new IP, but they just haven't done that either.
 
I think the Mario 64 -> Odyssey is precisely the example they are talking about, a new sequel that come out with a new mechanic to justify itself.

And that's basically how Nintendo has been doing with Mario 3d for a while now.
 
Rare made tonnes of sequels
Yes and they have toooons of different ips. The interview was right on, If they're going to reuse a old ip it has to be vastly different such as the new 3d Marios and Zeldas.
This would be nice as well, but it's been nearly 10 years since Rare has done anything relevant. I'd love for them to create great new IP, but they just haven't done that either.
Sea of thieves doesn't exist ?
 
Just because Rare aren't making a new Banjo, Perfect Dark or Viva Piñata doesn't mean someone else isn't.....

Let Rare make cool, interesting and new IP.
 
I'd tell you that you're welcome to your opinion and that it's a decent game, but also that you're wrong and you should feel bad.

Lol, the n64 bajos are products of their time where as n&b is actually still a good game today. I would argue kids today would be more likely to play n&b then they would the n64 bajos. Only people playing the original banjo do so for nostalgia and not much more imo...the games are actually pretty terrible now...but n&b isnt.
 

Shifty

Member
What if I told you N&B was the best Banjo game?

Speak more wisdom unto us, o' guru.

No seriously I want to hear other stories like how the switch was a terrible concept that won't sell, and how DMC2 is the best game in the series.
 
Didn't the Banjo spiritual sequel flop?

I don't know about flopped but it showed that the N64 platformer design is dated and they have a point about not wanting to revisit those old IPs unless they can do something fresh.

Doing a sequel for the sake of doing it is more disrespectful to those IPs than keeping them on ice until they can come up with a sequel that they're truly passionate about.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
I asked that question about whether Rare has moved on as a developer. I get his point about not wanting to make a new game in an established series unless they have a really good idea that makes sense for that franchise, but as I mentioned in the comments, how do you really get to that point unless you start by wanting to make a new game in X series?

And while Rare should feel free to make the types of games they want and not spend the rest of their days fulfilling fanboy dreams of endless Banjo and Conker sequels, there's still no reason why their beloved IP should languish in obscurity. Killer Instinct was a fantastic revival from a different dev and other series should get the same treatment if Rare has decided they want to put their talents to use in other ways.

Just because Rare aren't making a new Banjo, Perfect Dark or Viva Piñata doesn't mean someone else isn't.....

Let Rare make cool, interesting and new IP.

It's been 9 years since Nuts & Bolts/Trouble in Paradise and 12 years since Perfect Dark Zero. If someone else is making new games in those series they sure are taking their time!
 

Zubz

Banned
Rare continues to impress me with how much they seem to fear their old IP, despite it being the only good thing left at the company in my eyes.

If they're going to keep making Kinect games or whatever, Microsoft should really just take those IP's & give them to some more competent teams... even though I have little faith in that happening, too.

Plus side? It's what we've been dealing with for 12 years, so it's not like a major shake-up. Just a disappointing reminder.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
After playing rare collection on xbox one.

Nuts and bolts is the best banjo game
 

Synth

Member
I think the Mario 64 -> Odyssey is precisely the example they are talking about, a new sequel that come out with a new mechanic to justify itself.

And that's basically how Nintendo has been doing with Mario 3d for a while now.

This was basically what I was going to say. A new "paradigm shifting" idea, doesn't have to mean one that shifts the genre of the game. Would anyone seriously argue that Galaxy's mechanics were a paradigm shifting idea for 3D Mario... or hell Mario 64 itself?

There's a difference between sequels of 3D Mario, and say sequels to Pokémon.
 
It's a shame that they refuse to work on the things that made them great.

When I think about what separates Rare from the rest, then it has to be the sheer diversity of their catalogue and their ability to apply their unique style to a wide range of genres.

Being disappointed by this statement seems be contradictory to the reason to have fondness for them as developers in the first place.
 
I mean they're basically an entirely different dev with a different team than in the glory days, so tbh I'm not sure they'd be suited to making games from classic Rare IP anyway. They're "Rare" only by name at this point.
 
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