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Mass shooting at the Mandalay Bay Las Vegas; 58 dead, 500+ injured.

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I love fascination with this guy's gambling habits. I mean, is this supposed to shine a light on a possible motive, or does the news just need something to talk about?

He plays video poker. A lot.

OK?

my favorite gotcha headline today was scrolling past SHOOTER LIVED LIKE A VAMPIRE for his 'i don't like the sun' or whatever quote and how he'd gamble at night like, uhhhh....guys...am i living like a vampire because i work 3rd shift?

also how could you say this story has gone away lol there's headlines every few hours with the same old recycled shit
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I'm afraid the amendment is the direct word of God, like it is with Prophet Mohammed in Islam.

Just like black Americans only counting as 3/5 of a person?
 
That Raymond Page video is really something.

The guy walking alone saying he needs help, he needs an ambulance... when they sit him down and he's got the forearm hole as well as been shot in the chest...I felt a total rush of of 'Holy Crap'.

Sigh...

You can really feel the helplessness while watching that video. It's so awful. :[
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's completely reasonable that people feel the need to over analysis and dissect the killer's behavior, hobbies, and persona in an attempt to correlate something to the tragedy. The methodology isn't reasonable because it's unlikely to source a cause, but I understand why people do it.

Regardless of American's obsessive culture and protection of firearms, tragic acts like this are dramatic statistical blips of conscious behavior. And naturally we as a culture and species would like to identify why the person acted the way they did, in part to give catharsis to the act itself (even if the tragedy remains), and also to prevent the act from reoccurring.

"He just flipped / just a madman with a gun" isn't a satisfying conclusion, largely because it's not true. It hand waves exploration of what it means to be a "madman", why people lose grip of pacifistic culture, and why some lash out with such militant, targeted violence and destruction. Especially in cases where feverish ideological warfare doesn't appear to be part of the reasoning.

Unfortunately until we've a more developed and measured understanding of human behavioral psychology we're kinda at our wits end, especially with outliers like seemingly random mass shootings, and we end up having people latch on to absurd reasons for why the killings happened.
 
there are surely 100s, 1000s of Paddocks happening each year, but they shock and dismay only their immediate family or friends: most do not have the training, the access, the practice on firearms that can shoot so efficiently to slaughter a crowd.

So they go postal in other ways. They overdose, they drive their kids into a lake.
yet another small murder suicide that barely makes the local news.
 

shiba5

Member
I'm trying to wrap my head around the new timeline. A guard gets shot (and 200 rounds fired down the hallway) and neither the security of a major Vegas hotel or the police know where the shooter is and don't arrive until 18 minutes later.
 
there are surely 100s, 1000s of Paddocks happening each year, but they shock and dismay only their immediate family or friends: most do not have the training, the access, the practice on firearms that can shoot so efficiently to slaughter a crowd.

So they go postal in other ways. They overdose, they drive their kids into a lake.
yet another small murder suicide that barely makes the local news.

attacking food or water supplies is so easy with minor knowledge of infrastructures and so so much more dangerous, we are in deep trouble when some paddock decides to explore those avenues. hundreds/thousands can be injured or killed by an action done by an individual hours or days prior. knowing how many holes are in those areas is a lot more frightening to me since a madman can do a lot more with very limited resources
 
I'm trying to wrap my head around the new timeline. A guard gets shot (and 200 rounds fired down the hallway) and neither the security of a major Vegas hotel or the police know where the shooter is and don't arrive until 18 minutes later.

Yeah that doesn't make sense, I'm sure there's an explanation but it seems like a major cock up.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
There are people who are concerned that if they allow some restrictions, more will follow. And there are several people, even on these forums for example, who want the Second Amendment eliminated. Pro-gun citizens fear that may be the end goal with people who want to pass restrictive legislation.

I'm not saying that's correct or anything, just an observation.
For some it is.

My position is I'm not angling for a ban, but, honestly, if one was politically feasible I would support it.

I really don't get why people are worried that "some" people somewhere want a ban. That's irrelevant. Some people wanted the right to marry their dog, shouldn't stop people from supporting gay marriage. Some people want people to give up fossil fuels completely now with no regard to the economy or the direct impact on people's living conditions now, shouldn't stop people trying to hasten a move to cleaner energy now.
So of course there's some people who actually want nothing less than a ban on all firearms, shouldn't stop people from coming up with more logical gun control now. There's literally a person for everything, you can't fear to take a moderate position because somewhere someone with an extreme position on the issue exists.

I get tired of cowards so afraid of the "slippery slope" that they refuse to even entertain their own true feelings because of what's, at the time some, essentially powerless nobodies out there that have an extreme position. Nor do I get the insane fear of the slippery slope in a society in the first place. If generations from now those people have decided that, yes, they want to ban all guns, what fucking right do I in 2017 have to tell the majority of the people in 2100 that they can't do it? Society changes. If I can take a time machine and move back or forwards a hundred years in America's timeline and can't spot a difference outside of car styles and cell phone sizes there's a fucking problem. Let the people in the future who will have inherited this country from us decide for themselves if they want to continue down the slippery slope of gun banning or not but whatever those future American's decide it's not our place to tell them otherwise.
 

joshcryer

it's ok, you're all right now
Wow, the security guard revelation is shocking. That means they they knew he was firing on the crowd but did nothing about it for 10 full minutes. That's absolutely mind numbing.

They had to have heard the shots from the hallway.

When the body cam footage is released (if it ever is) it's going to look really bad on these cops.
 
I got two things.

1 inquiry. What's the deal with this Rocky Palermo guy. Supposed to be a victim of the shooting claiming he saw multiple shooters? I'm not buying it based on the fact that no other victim has came forward about it. Still curious about it though.

2 cents. Banning guns isn't going to stop mass killings. As with banning marijuana it will create more harm than good. What would help is proper universal healthcare, and stricter gun control. One or both could have prevented this tragedy without infringing on anyone's rights.



Guns are weapons of mass killing.
 

Seventy70

Member
They don't pop out of existence, even if you somehow manage to get them banned.

They will raise red flags and be easier to detect though. If you see a person walking around with a gun strapped on them you should be able to call the cops. Same thing goes for traffic stops and such. If someone has a giant cache of ammo and guns in their car, there should be consequences.

All of that will lead to cultural changes as well. Once the consequences are there, most people wont even bother going through the trouble to get guns, despite what they might say.

With all that said, a gun ban just isn't happening right now in America. We need to add some more control and make a plan to phase them out over time.

I don't understand many people's self defense argument. With guns, the first person that draws is the one that has the control. Unless you're going to walk around with your gun drawn all the time, you have no control over the situation.
 
attacking food or water supplies is so easy with minor knowledge of infrastructures and so so much more dangerous, we are in deep trouble when some paddock decides to explore those avenues. hundreds/thousands can be injured or killed by an action done by an individual hours or days prior. knowing how many holes are in those areas is a lot more frightening to me since a madman can do a lot more with very limited resources

That risk is dealt with the normal way.
Unbalanced people will always pop off.

Having Las Vegas gun culture around everyone results in paddock, one time out of whatever. Not having that means they go off in other ways that are destructive to their family, but not to whole groups.

To say nothing of the free lesson in inadequate response and new ideas paddock gave any actual terrorists watching. Every domestic attack is free intelligence for terrorism.

Tightening up super easy access to more lethal guns and attachments is such an easy idea with no downside.
 

Steel

Banned
Nothing, just curious? Did video ever surface?

I remember in a press conference they mentioned something about seeing him on the security feeds taking multiple trips over several hours to avoid raising suspicion(To the point there were staff rotations in between trips). Not sure if they released the video or not.
 
V

Vilix

Unconfirmed Member
Nothing, just curious? Did video ever surface?

I'm sure there are a ton of videos from security cameras that captured him in the hotel parking garage and hotel hallways. We just have to wait until the police release them.
 

MIMIC

Banned
Big thread, but did video ever surface of him bringing the guns into the hotel?

All that footage is with law enforcement.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the shooter told hotel management that he wanted his room to be left alone for 3 days. And that's plenty of time to bring all that weaponry into a hotel room undetected.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
I'm trying to wrap my head around the new timeline. A guard gets shot (and 200 rounds fired down the hallway) and neither the security of a major Vegas hotel or the police know where the shooter is and don't arrive until 18 minutes later.

Why would they know? The security guard has to communicate with someone first about which floor he was on, presumably with the hotel staff, and later with the police once they themselves make contact with whoever has the info. 18 minutes makes sense.
 

LordPezix

Member
I'm sure there are a ton of videos from security cameras that captured him in the hotel parking garage and hotel hallways. We just have to wait until the police release them.

Thank you, that is what I was looking for. I am just trying to stay up to date and I remember people asking where is the video feed of him entering the hotel and what not.
 

Xenus

Member
They will raise red flags and be easier to detect though. If you see a person walking around with a gun strapped on them you should be able to call the cops. Same thing goes for traffic stops and such. If someone has a giant cache of ammo and guns in their car, there should be consequences.

All of that will lead to cultural changes as well. Once the consequences are there, most people wont even bother going through the trouble to get guns, despite what they might say.

With all that said, a gun ban just isn't happening right now in America. We need to add some more control and make a plan to phase them out over time.

I don't understand many people's self defense argument. With guns, the first person that draws is the one that has the control. Unless you're going to walk around with your gun drawn all the time, you have no control over the situation.

If guns are made illegal you have to find a way to get millions of them out of the system and people rarely walk around with a gun strapped on them visibly around masses of people today let alone if they were banned.

And I feel a lot of the gun ban arguments are coming from people who have lived their majority of their lives in cities. Things like how do you control deer and boar populations without guns. What about people's families who can eat for weeks off a single kill etc. Let alone the logistics of telling then collecting the guns from people who might be 100 miles or more from the nearest town. As for self defense while against people I get the arguments but if a bear, mountain lion, wolf or even coyote was around I'd feel hell of a lot safer with a gun. Even if you miss chances are the noise will scare them off.

Now automatics and devices to make things automatic certainly should be banned. Unless you can tell me a valid reason for them to exist that doesn't involve feeling like a badass at the range or killing people. No, preparing for the fall of civilization/zombie is not a valid reason btw. I'm not sure you can make a case for a citizen needing access to the 50 cal sniper rifles either for that matter.
 

Joni

Member
If guns are made illegal you have to find a way to get millions of them out of the system and people rarely walk around with a gun strapped on them visibly around masses of people today let alone if they were banned.

If European police departments see someone walking in a city with a gun, they know that they need to react immediately. If American police departments see someone walking in a city with a gun, they can't really. That is the difference. You will see a lot less people walking with guns, but there is an immediate red flag when you do see one.

And I feel a lot of the gun ban arguments are coming from people who have lived their majority of their lives in cities. Things like how do you control deer and boar populations without guns. What about people's families who can eat for weeks off a single kill etc.

You don't hunt with handguns or semi-automatics. And you can easily combine weapon license for hunting rifles with hunting licenses. Don't have that hunting license, don't need that hunting rifle. Other countries have figured out these things. Deer and boars are certainly not an exclusive US problem.
 

Spectone

Member
If guns are made illegal you have to find a way to get millions of them out of the system and people rarely walk around with a gun strapped on them visibly around masses of people today let alone if they were banned.

In Australia the government bought weapons back from the people and destroyed them. From time to time we have a gun amnesty where you can bring illegal weapons to the police for no penalty.

And I feel a lot of the gun ban arguments are coming from people who have lived their majority of their lives in cities. Things like how do you control deer and boar populations without guns. What about people's families who can eat for weeks off a single kill etc. Let alone the logistics of telling then collecting the guns from people who might be 100 miles or more from the nearest town. As for self defense while against people I get the arguments but if a bear, mountain lion, wolf or even coyote was around I'd feel hell of a lot safer with a gun. Even if you miss chances are the noise will scare them off.

In Australia guns are not banned they are restricted heavily. Farmers still have guns, hunters have guns, sportsmen have guns and collectors have guns.

America does not need to ban all guns they need to ban certain guns and restrict the others.
 

jmdajr

Member
The new timeline of events doesn't make the police response look good. Granted they didn't really have clue what they were up against, but did know or should have known what floor he was on.

Both the security guard and maintenance worker knew where he was.
 
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