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[Chris Metal]

Just watched this on the x900e, man it's beautiful implementation. Good work on the video. I find the most striking part of HDR in GTS is the in-car dash and illumination of the dials/speedometers... With HDR it's looks strikingly realistic, especially at night.

EDIT: Was watched through Sony's UBP-X800 UHD Player YouTube app BTW.

 

[dark10x]

John, will this be a graphics only analysis or will the often discussed audio topic for racing games also come to mention?

I’m going to try it but I’m not an expert on the sound debate.

 

[Izuna]

Showing the HDR videos to customers. Ratchet and Clank is The HDR killer app.

According to random people in Manchester.

 

[chubigans]

This is an unfair comment to make. The video isn’t what it is due to HDR - it required so much effort to make that I couldn’t dig in as deeply.

That said, I disagree with your assessment now after spending the morning comparing the two.

Forza and GT both use 2D trees but the tree textures are more detailed and better lit in GT. Forza just slaps two flat surfaces together but it’s still ultimately 2D in nature.

GT also uses a fully modeled 3D crowd on all tracks aside from the giant stadiums. Forza’s crowd is entirely 2D.

GT has more details than I expected when looking closely.


Again, this first video was limited because of the HDR production time. It was a nightmare.

I'm working on a more detailed video putting Forza 7 and GTS side by side and I think you're going to be genuinely shocked by the results. I honestly expected Forza 7 to crush GT in terms of track side detail but it's absolutely not the case.

I can see why, though. Forza has a lower contrast look even in HDR and its flaws don't stick out as much while racing, which is a very important thing, but if you look closely at individual assets, you can see that Polyphony put in the work. The tracks ARE detailed.

I was kinda shocked at all the people moving up and down stadium stairs, walking around, etc. I’ve always wanted to see that in a game.

I like the nice touch of varying crowd sizes depending on what youre doing.

I’m such a sucker for trackside retail. That would be a fun job to have.

 

[cakely]

Shame DF didn't point out many of the game issues like high use of 2D assets lack of 3D polygons used on the Tire walls, when you crash there is nothing, but in Forza you get debris and tires flying everywhere, also the level of detail is quite jarring in places and very noticeable on the marshalls etc

It's not a shame. The article is about HDR. There's probably another, better thread for you to talk about how much you like Forza's track assets.

Expected a bit better from DigitalFoundry, but there again this is SONY

Aw, come on, the author is actually in the thread. This is not Ok.

 

[silva1991]

It is a SHAME that "digital" foundry claims to be a house of technology when they are clearly teh bias. Where is the analsis of such outdated concept like tree? Air? Why last gen things like bus. Please redo this.

I am a tree enthusiast. I frequently drive around in real life at high speeds and look at tree. This game embarrassing. Yoshi Island have better tree.

lol.

 

[Rellik]

On mobile here, iPhone 6s+ specifically, and can’t set the quality past 480p. Happened with the recent Forza 7 HDR video as well.

Still having this problem? It's full 4K HDR on my Xperia phone but it did default to 480p.

 

[Gingen]

Yep. Cuphead.


Fear not, that's precisely what I'll be looking at.

please this time in your analysis set correctly the chasecam parameters in GT sport: both set to 0 and camera set to "close"

best regards

 

[potatohead]

Just watched this on the x900e, man it's beautiful implementation. Good work on the video. I find the most striking part of HDR in GTS is the in-car dash and illumination of the dials/speedometers... With HDR it's looks strikingly realistic, especially at night.

EDIT: Was watched through Sony's UBP-X800 UHD Player YouTube app BTW.

I have the same bd player solid player

 

[benzy]

Hope John delves into the material work.

 

[cakely]

Hope John delves into the material work.

I cannot wait to do that in VR.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Sorry but just no.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ftuC-6Lcny0

Please, for actual head to head racing GT sports AI isn't great Forza is a little better

better thread for you to talk about how much you like Forza's track asset

It's about the gfx too and is discussed in the video.

 

[GHG]

Please, for actual head to head racing GT sports AI isn't great Forza is a little better



It's about the gfx too and is discussed in the video.

Make a thread for racing game AI. Please, I'm really interested in how you are coming to that conclusion but this clearly isn't the place for it.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I remember when GT Sport was first revealed everyone was dogpiling on how bad it looks and how Forza will be the best looker now that it turned out to be the opposite which GT Sport is the better visual techpiece overall, the Forza fans trying their best to bring down GT Sport and downplay everything while trying to push the notion again that Forza is better, embarassing

Please don't class me as Forza fan, its far from the best racer or the best looking too. But Forza 7 is doing some stuff GT Sport isn't. It got 4 more cars on screen, full damage models and also some environmental interactive damage when the car crashes and its got a dynamic weather system too.

When it comes to a racing sim I don't many equaled much less bettered Richard Burns Rally

 

[EvB]

Wow I think this is the first HDR game mastered at 10k nits with WCG.

As TV's improve over the years this game will continue to look better and better.



Of course, why would it not?

It needs a bit more bandwidth and no other game on either Ps3 or Ps4 used it.

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[JamboGT]

The final mission in the demo had 30 cars on track, pit stops, fuel and tyre usage, strategy through tyre choice and fuel mix, flag rules. GT Sport is doing a lot of stuff too.

I try to keep out of this fanboy crap but inferring that the creator of the video is biased because it’s sony, when the dude is posting in the thread is just plain rude.

 

[JetSetRadio]

Racing AI is a joke, SPORT mode is fantastic! Can't imagine racing online without a SR system.
Well I can and it's called GTAO and it's amazing too lol.

 

[GHG]

Please don't class me as Forza fan, its far from the best racer or the best looking too. But Forza 7 is doing some stuff GT Sport isn't. It got 4 more cars on screen, full damage models and also some environmental interactive damage when the car crashes and its got a dynamic weather system too.

When it comes to a racing sim I don't many equaled much less bettered Richard Burns Rally

Have a look at the "position" count.

https://youtu.be/WelblKQNC20

You're not fooling anybody either by the way.

 

[thelastword]

Racing AI is a joke, SPORT mode is fantastic! Can't imagine racing online without a SR system.
Well I can and it's called GTAO and it's amazing too lol.

Good CPU AI is still something I'd like to see advanced though......It's actually quite improved in GTS tbh....

 

[potatohead]

Good CPU AI is still something I'd like to see advanced though......It's actually quite improved in GTS tbh....

I felt it was hit and miss.

I got hit in the back a lot and spun out because of it, and I'm not sure if that's my shitty driving or it's the AI being ridiculous.

I didn't feel that happened in older GTs as much but I'm really not sure.

I have a feeling the GTS AI is more dynamic, but I think there is still room for tweaking at least. I do like how at least when the other cars are in front of you they feel more like other human drivers than in previous games though, they deviate from the racing line a lot more than in previous GT games and also eff up a bit more too.

Hope John delves into the material work.

PS5 VR or PS5 Pro VR is gonna be so damn amazing.

 

[ethomaz]

Please, for actual head to head racing GT sports AI isn't great Forza is a little better

GTS AI is more smart and dynamic... F7 AI can just do nascar lines without not even avoiding obstacles lol

I agree racing AI are bad but in F7 it is ridiculous bad... F3/F4 has way better AI on 360.

 

[thelastword]

I felt it was hit and miss.

I got hit in the back a lot and spun out because of it, and I'm not sure if that's my shitty driving or it's the AI being ridiculous.

I didn't feel that happened in older GTs as much but I'm really not sure.

I have a feeling the GTS AI is more dynamic, but I think there is still room for tweaking at least. I do like how at least when the other cars are in front of you they feel more like other human drivers than in previous games though, they deviate from the racing line a lot more than in previous GT games and also eff up a bit more too.

PS5 VR or PS5 Pro VR is gonna be so damn amazing.

Yeah, well at least, you can't take a beast of a car tune to it to beast saiyan x3 and pass every car at the starting line ....But yes, I know what you are talking about in the arcade mode, but I think the A.I is just more aggressive if anything. If I realize I'm being tailgated, I can see the shadows on the side or the cars or from the mirror, so I try to get out of their way and pursue another line....

All in all. A.I, not only in racers is something I'd like to see advanced in all genres, yet I'm not really looking for super realistic A.I...One shot one kill, crash and you're "totaled" type of gameplay" start the career next year Mr Coulthard...... Sure, there's a place for that, but we still play games for fun in 2017 i'm thinking

 

[Klocker]

You seem obsessed with the tire wall but I can point to a number of other higher polygon objects in GT as well.

What I've found is that some objects are more detailed in Forza, others more detailed in GT.

Seriously, you haven't seen anything yet. The difference, when you compare side by side, is nothing like you seem to think. GT has a lot more going on than expected.


No. I've decided to use the PC version using Ultra settings. It's beyond what Xbox One X offers (reflections and rear view can update at full frame-rate on PC, for instance) but it's much closer than using the 1080p XO version.

Thankfully, F7 runs flawlessly on my PC at 4K60 using Ultra.

Hi John have you considered adding project cars 2 to the analysis? their PC version seems to run pretty well and the Xbox X version will be enhanced.

The 24-hour Dynamic time and weather cycle along with 3d trees and a pretty good HDR implementation (imo) seem to be worthy of it?

 

[SolidSnakex]

I cannot wait to do that in VR.

A gif from Apex of VR in GTS

 

[Putty]

A gif from Apex of VR in GTS

My god, can you imagine that on PS5?!

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

GT Sport VR footage and foggy weather while racing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otYyKOqPPV8&t=5m5s

 

[SprachBrooks]

i need a good hdr tv

i need to see the light

☝🏿
Come on guys, what’s a good HDR TV for £500?

 

[Arklite]

Holy hell that leather car seat in VR looks amazing. Think they made the right choice in making VR head to head if the real value of it is making a convincing environment to sit in.

 

[ethomaz]

DAT VR video.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

☝🏿
Come on guys, what’s a good HDR TV for £500?

www.rtings.com

break down your search by size, feature set, and price range.

 

[HStallion]

My god that VR looks interior looks amazing. Its damn near fools me into thinking its RL in those gifs.

 

[EvB]

☝🏿
Come on guys, what’s a good HDR TV for £500?

There isnt one in the UK.

Either spend more and get actual HDR , or don’t even think about HdR

 

[bud]

Have a look at the "position" count.

https://youtu.be/WelblKQNC20

You're not fooling anybody either by the way.

when did they increase the number to 30? i thought it was 24 max.

nice.

 

[Clarkus Darkus]

A gif from Apex of VR in GTS

Incredible, And it looks even better actually inside the headset which makes it even more stunning.

 

[Gouda Jouji]

when did they increase the number to 30? i thought it was 24 max.

nice.

It's just for that mission. There are Gr.4 cars spread out around the track with extremely basic AI that are pretty much just obstacles for you and the other Gr.3 AI drivers. They can get away with it in that scenario because the game never actually has to show all 30 cars at the same time.

 

[bud]

It's just for that mission. There are Gr.4 cars spread out around the track with extremely basic AI that are pretty much just obstacles for you and the other Gr.3 AI drivers. They can get away with it in that scenario because the game never actually has to show all 30 cars at the same time.

ahh, i see. thanks.

 

[thelastword]

VR looks great.....

 

[KageMaru]

A gif from Apex of VR in GTS

Is that how it looks during the race or is this a specific mode? Looks great either way.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

Is that how it looks during the race or is this a specific mode? Looks great either way.

On the track as you race.

 

[Elandyll]

It's far more noticeable in Sports and I don't really want to talk much of Forza 7 as I'm waiting to play it more on the One X rather than on my One S, where I can really compare it far more fairly to Sports running on my Pro.

But I will say there is more use of 3D polygons for trackside details like tire walls in Forza, the cockpit in Forza is better animated too, nevermind the weather effects
In GT sports, drive up slowly to the marshals and see big jump in level of detail as you get close, it's like a throwback, to PS era

Car model and HDR wise I agree with you, it's ahead of anything else out there, but at big costs to the detail gfx used elsewhere in the game and features like dynamic weather.

PD used to be the best on the PS and PS2 (GT 3 is a showcase for the system and looked better than most 360 racers) , but they've lost that magic since the PS3 era and games like Project Cars 2 are pushing ahead with features like weather systems and patterns and AI (which is still poor in GT)

As an aside, I'm curious as per your rationale that it's "fairer" to compare a $499 console (1X) to a $399 (Pro) released a year earlier, rather than comparing two consoles released the same year (Pro and 1S) at $399/ $299?

 

[Sygma]

DF

what format is the HDR footage in? If it's MP4 it will work on my Galaxy S8

I'll sub to see it

DF please do some actual research, YouTube on Galaxy S8 DOES NOT HAVE HDR

It certainly does on mine. Even tho the implentation is really shit since its stuttery as hell above 1080p

 

[KageMaru]

On the track as you race.

Very nice. Hopefully my buddy gets this so I can try it on his PSVR to see how it looks.

 

[Hawk269]

Please Help. My PS4 Pro died a few days before the Demo came out. Sony are being idiots and will not fix it so my wife said to get a new one. I just got done hooking it up and downloading the updates and for the life of me cannot find the demo on the Store. It only is offering a pre-order. Did the demo get pulled? Is the demo over? Please help as this was going to be the showcase game I show my wife and tell her why it was a good reason to get a replacement unit. I looked everywhere and it is listed in the demo section but when I click on it, it takes me to a pre-order or to pre-order the deluxe version.

Thanks for any help! I have a new (1 month old) LG E7 65" OLED that I want to use since I hear the HDR is great on this game!

 

[Afrikan]

Watching on GS8+ some of this shit looks live real life it's crazy.

Does our phones or Youtube HDR max out at 1080p 60fps?

I couldn't get it to 1440p HDR, but thought that was just because of internet connection.

 

[PodcastFips]

Deciding between 4K HDR and VR is gonna be so incredibly tough for this. But I feel like being in there and being able to determine corners like you would in real life might just be the real deal, especially against human opponents.

 

[Smokey]

Please Help. My PS4 Pro died a few days before the Demo came out. Sony are being idiots and will not fix it so my wife said to get a new one. I just got done hooking it up and downloading the updates and for the life of me cannot find the demo on the Store. It only is offering a pre-order. Did the demo get pulled? Is the demo over? Please help as this was going to be the showcase game I show my wife and tell her why it was a good reason to get a replacement unit. I looked everywhere and it is listed in the demo section but when I click on it, it takes me to a pre-order or to pre-order the deluxe version.

Thanks for any help! I have a new (1 month old) LG E7 65" OLED that I want to use since I hear the HDR is great on this game!

I think the demo is over. Full game comes out on Tuesday.

 

[Hawk269]

I think the demo is over. Full game comes out on Tuesday.

Thanks...I just realized that...felt gutted and my wife came home asking to show her this awesome new racing game that I have been talking about. lol. Oh well.

BTW...Since you also have a OLED LG, what settings do you have in the PS4 Pro Screen menu? I had to change to "Limited" output because in Witcher 3 when you are in the in-game menu to adjust brightness the Witcher Logo that you are suppose to see was invisible regardless of where I put the brightness at. When I engaged/changed it to "limited" it appeared and I was able to adjust brightness appropriately.

 

[Lord Error]

I've adjusted my (non-HDR) TV according to their instructions, and the game looks awesome - but one thing intrigues me:

Are the pre-game title screens (when you boot the game and it shows you copyright, who made it etc) supposed to be on a gray background? Such screens are practically always on a black background in my experience, but here, they appear dark gray. I wonder if I've still miscalibrated the game somehow.

 

[T-0800]

I'm still confused by HDR and what it is supposed to do. I have a 4k HDR tv and I don't get it. Playing The Witness and switching back and forth I can see it is different but I don't see how it is better. Going from SD to HD content was an obvious improvement but non HDR to HDR is just different, not better to me. Same thing with Everybody's Golf. It doesn't help that when a game switches to HDR that the tv changes to HDR mode with different brightness etc settings which makes trying to compare the two modes difficult.

Someone will suggest that perhaps my tv isn't set optimally but such an observation isn't helpful. I don't know....