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[dark10x]

Noon do it I HDR

I demand as a Patreon sub

Well, I'm not sure I can do it for this one as I'm using the PC version as a base.

For whatever reason, when I selected YUV422 on my PC, I cannot do 10 or 12-bit color output. It locks to 8-bit which results in banding. I can only do PC HDR using YUV420 which the capture device won't accept.

 

[Izuna]

Well, I'm not sure I can do it for this one as I'm using the PC version as a base.

For whatever reason, when I selected YUV422 on my PC, I cannot do 10 or 12-bit color output. It locks to 8-bit which results in banding. I can only do PC HDR using YUV420 which the capture device won't accept.

All I hear is excuses and no solutions.

#Downvote.

Spoiler

what a mess Windows is

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

I wonder what GTS is doing that makes its HDR stand out over other games?

I always thought it was a color space where it was either turned on or it wasn't.

From the GT Sport page on Gran-Turismo.com

Compatible with the best imaging technologies available today, providing 4K, 60FPS, HDR and Wide Colour. Not only has the output been made to support HDR TV signal formats, a True HDR workflow was specially established in order to maintain true HDR and Wide Colour processing from the initial material capturing processes to the final output. The process actually started with the development of an HDR Wide Colour capture device in cooperation with Sony Corporation.
As a result, not only is the output compatible with HDR TVs, the images produced achieves a level of realism never seen before, even when viewed on a conventional TV

They developed some tech that allowed them to achieve the end result.

 

[Sayad]

For Forza 7 vs GTS, though, I think I'm going to stick with SDR as, even knowing the HDR workflow, it's still way faster and easier to do in SDR.

SDR is fine, long as tire walls get enough coverage. :3

 

[Izuna]

Anyone have an LG G6 and subscribes? Is there any colour banding when viewing this video?

I might want that phone.

 

[Flousn]

For Forza 7 vs GTS, though, I think I'm going to stick with SDR as, even knowing the HDR workflow, it's still way faster and easier to do in SDR.

Can't you please just focus on the HDT (high dynamic tirewall) aspect of the games.
This industry needs to get it's priorities straight.

 

[JP]

I want to see a DF Retro article on "Tire Walls, Through The Ages".

I can't believe this hasn't been done already. Why waste your time on inconsequential nonsense like Halo, Soul Reaver, Shenmue and Sonic when there are decades of rows of tires that you could be analysing?

 

[magawolaz]

nvm, too dumb. Tire wall discussion is funnier.

 

[benzy]

All I'm saying is that Forza is having to handle stuff that the GT Sports engine doesn't worry about .. more cars on screen, weather system, damage system and all crash barriers that react to players input All that sort of stuff that's up extra clock cycles, read that not mean the game looks better, but just the engine is having to worry about and handle extra stuff.

Why doesn't Forza handle realtime environment shadows like GTS and instead baked their shadows? How come Forza doesn't have animated fully 3D crowds that walk around the environment? Why did Forza resort to a technically much less demanding trick started by the Bizzarre Creation guys on x360 to do their car reflections instead of static cube maps? How come Forza doesn't have rock particles that behave and look like this? Etc etc

 

[dark10x]

nvm, too dumb. Tire wall discussion is funnier.

Someone needs to photoshop a tirewall into the Wall Guy shot.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

I actually hope someone tweets Kaz about the tire walls, they need to step up their game.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Well, I'm not sure I can do it for this one as I'm using the PC version as a base.

For whatever reason, when I selected YUV422 on my PC, I cannot do 10 or 12-bit color output. It locks to 8-bit which results in banding. I can only do PC HDR using YUV420 which the capture device won't accept.

That's a shame, damn those technical issues.

Will you be you be touching on GT Sport's VR mode in the next video or a separate video ? As it's looking very good from the gifs and videos that are starting to pop up.

Also any thoughts on the weather in GT, which seems to be in the game after all, well at least fog has now been seen in this VR race.

Strange PD hasn't shown it off officially though, leading to people thinking it has no weather at all. Do you think they wanted to keep it a surprise or is it just bad communication from PD ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otYyKOqPPV8&t=5m5s

 

[CouchMaster]

I wonder what GTS is doing that makes its HDR stand out over other games?

I always thought it was a color space where it was either turned on or it wasn't.

It lets me calibrate HDR brightness and colors to suit my TV model, that is all I ask from other HDR games. Makes one hell of a difference.

 

[=GabrielKnight=]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but can you play in 1080p with 60fps replays without manually changing the output settings of the console?

 

[ethomaz]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but can you play in 1080p with 60fps replays without manually changing the output settings of the console

Yes if you have a 1080p TV.
If you have a 4k TV you need to change the system settings.

 

[=GabrielKnight=]

Yes if you have a 1080p TV.
If you have a 4k TV you need to change the system settings.

Thanks
I have a pro, and this is awful

 

[Wollan]

A gif from Apex of VR in GTS

The reflection on that mid-section is looking real good.

 

[John Wick]

Forza 7 is a worse game than F6 according to Metacritic, that's what is important, not how many cars are on its tracks.

Don't want to derail this thread but there's not much difference between Forza 6 and 7 except for maybe some dynamic weather. Absolutely huge difference between GT6 and GT Sport. Game is pure class

 

[Synth]

Don't want to derail this thread but there's not much difference between Forza 6 and 7 except for maybe some dynamic weather. Absolutely huge difference between GT6 and GT Sport. Game is pure class

Comparing GT6 to GT Sport, would more akin to comparing FM4 to FM7 to be fair. Not that that comparison helps when talking about metacritic scores though, lol.

 

[Septic360]

That's a shame, damn those technical issues.

Will you be you be touching on GT Sport's VR mode in the next video or a separate video ? As it's looking very good from the gifs and videos that are starting to pop up.

Also any thoughts on the weather in GT, which seems to be in the game after all, well at least fog has now been seen in this VR race.

Strange PD hasn't shown it off officially though, leading to people thinking it has no weather at all. Do you think they wanted to keep it a surprise or is it just bad communication from PD ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otYyKOqPPV8&t=5m5s

Wow that looks great!

 

[IISANDERII]

www.rtings.com

break down your search by size, feature set, and price range.

If notice latency, that's a huge thing to look at

 

[CyberChulo]

YouTube or Patreon download?

Regular YouTube. Once you play the video, it automatically switches to hdr mode. Also when you check the playback settings it only shows hdr resolution settings.

 

[Izuna]

Regular YouTube. Once you play the video, it automatically switches to hdr mode. Also when you check the playback settings it only shows hdr resolution settings.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but that isn't HDR.

Kind sharing a screenshot of the playback?

If it is really running in HDR, your screenshot should look like this:

 

[CyberChulo]

I'm sorry to break it to you, but that isn't HDR.

Kind sharing a screenshot of the playback?

You won't see hdr screenshots here. I'm not aware of any browsers that can display it. Plus you will need a hdr set as well. Youtube was updated for hdr videos. You need a capable phone with good brightness. The GS8+ can produce 1000 nits of brightness.

 

[Izuna]

You won't see hdr screenshots here. I'm not aware of any browsers that can display it. Plus you will need a hdr set as well. Youtube was updated for hdr videos. You need a capable phone with good brightness. The GS8+ can produce 1000 nits of brightness.

No, that's my point. The screenshot will look like the above because if you try to take an SDR screenshot of an HDR image the colours are all in the wrong place.

That screenshot above proves that when I run it on my S8 via the MP4 download, it is running in HDR.

I'm literally on a one-man crusade to prove that S8 doesn't have HDR YouTube. All the tech industries never really tested it. If you get that sort of screenshot like I posted, then all my testing with in-store phones and my own are somehow wrong but I HIGHLY doubt it.

 

[Izuna]

You won't see hdr screenshots here. I'm not aware of any browsers that can display it. Plus you will need a hdr set as well. Youtube was updated for hdr videos. You need a capable phone with good brightness. The GS8+ can produce 1000 nits of brightness.

check your PM pls

 

[EvB]

It lets me calibrate HDR brightness and colors to suit my TV model, that is all I ask from other HDR games. Makes one hell of a difference.

What settings do you have?

 

[cakely]

Gran Turismo Sport |OT| Sure, but what about the tire walls?

 

[RedAssedApe]

I can't seem to find what the NITS output is on your set. It could be that it does not have a high NITS output for HDR but unless we know what that number is it is hard to tell. But in general HDR is easily noticeable and impactful, but can vary also by what content you are using.

Specs on displaynotifications.com seem to indicate 350 nits. Also ips. Probably not a set where you’re going to be wowed by hdr.

 

[Klocker]

From the GT Sport page on Gran-Turismo.com



They developed some tech that allowed them to achieve the end result.

It lets me calibrate HDR brightness and colors to suit my TV model, that is all I ask from other HDR games. Makes one hell of a difference.

Damn, well wish there was a standard that we could all count on for all HDR games to give similar results but hopefully this will push everyone to do better.

Bought a 4k TV for HDR mostly, wan tot see that sucker put to good use

 

[potatohead]

The reflection on that mid-section is looking real good.

Basically looks really in a car truly shockingly good

 

[Ehker]

Basically looks really in a car truly shockingly good

That's Forza. Sorry, jokes, just really wish Forza supported VR.

Speaking of HDR and VR, I guess there's no chance of that anytime soon. The OLED in PSVR, Oculus and the Vive makes you think they could almost support it, but the lens kills brightness if I understand, so we're nowhere near getting HDR in VR.

 

[Sygma]

I've even tested this on in store models sheet updating the app, it really doesn't.

It's actually frustrating

Do me a favor, turn off Video Enchancer and take a screen shot while the video is playing and show me. Or go into multi view and check if the video colours change.

Or actually, you can even keep Video Enchancer on and see that the screenshots will still show a correct Rec. 709 image.

People either have Adaptive Display mode on or Video Enchancer (which do basically the same thing on YouTube) and are mistaking it for real HDR.

Sure thing !

I don't think I'm mistaken but as said prior its basically not possible to watch the video in 1440p hdr, frame rate is beyond choppy. Which is super weird because the phone can handle 4k hdr mp4 without troubles

 

[Izuna]

Sure thing !

I don't think I'm mistaken but as said prior its basically not possible to watch the video in 1440p hdr, frame rate is beyond choppy. Which is super weird because the phone can handle 4k hdr mp4 without troubles

Thanks, you've proved HDR isn't working.

If HDR was working, your SDR screenshots would look like this:

As mentioned before, this is because if you play DCI P3 (which is the colour space of HDR) and take a screenshot, you will see how the colours fall into the wrong place when viewing on an SDR display (or if you look at the screenshot on the S8).

 

[Izuna]

So I spent some time watching HDR on a KS8000. I learnt a few things (one of them is that the S8 is an 8-bit display which is why there is colour banding sadface)...

Another is that I still think GTS isn't a great display of HDR. Here's why.

I have a calibrated IPS display on my laptop. We compared Forza Horizon 3 running on the Xbox One S and 30fps PC.

So basically, HDR vs. SDR. (just to clarify we made the KS8000 show SDR to confirm that the colours etc. matched up).

One huge thing we noticed was how the sun had a real impact when it showed up. The track was a different colour not visible in Rec. 709. Additionally, the ring of fire was partly invisible with the sun behind it in SDR, but in HDR, the flames were a distictively different bright object. Basically where HDR shines in general.

With GTS, I ran the YouTube video in SDR against the HDR version of it. In my opinion, the headlights and tail lights being as bright as they are in HDR was really impressive, but even in SDR it added to the composition in the same way. The sky in GTS wasn't improved much by HDR, whereas in Forza it becomes a real beauty. Outside of that, all of the jarring shortcomings of GTS were still there in HDR -- HDR doesn't do too much to improve the environments.


Oh, and by the way. The REAL HDR's killer app is Wipeout Omega Collection on Zone (2048).

Like, holy fucking shit.

 

[Sygma]

Ah, fair enough then !

Tbh I looked over that bit in your previous post

That screenshot above proves that when I run it on my S8 via the MP4 download, it is running in HDR.

my bad

About Wipeout, the previous one on ps3 was the showcase for 3D gaming, no surprises that they re keeping the visual edge up

 

[likedamaster]

Some interesting commentary going on in this thread.

I like it.

 

[freshVeggie]

Couldn't find a way to force Youtube to show the HDR version on the desktop, to dl and dump in on a USB.
The Youtube app on our new Sony X850E isn't showing HDR either.
What a shame. Would have loved to finally see some well-done HDR footage.

 

[Izuna]

Couldn't find a way to force Youtube to show the HDR version on the desktop, to dl and dump in on a USB.
The Youtube app on our new Sony X850E isn't showing HDR either.
What a shame. Would have loved to finally see some well-done HDR footage.

Gotta subscribe to that Patreon

 

[JP]

Oh, and by the way. The REAL HDR's killer app is Wipeout Omega Collection on Zone (2048).

Like, holy fucking shit.

One of my favourites too. It's also worth checking on Housemarque's three HDR enabled games. Seriously, one of the attract scenes Matterfall is insane, I mean the one in the green area. I don't think I've seen anything that bright in my entire life, I had concerns that it was going to kill my TV or something.

 

[R_thanatos]

Here's an idea of why it was difficult to produce.

[HDR Hell]
.

Damn ..
all this stuff happenned ?
I appreciate your work , but man , all of this sound so annoying , so much problems
The youtube encode process especially should have been torture since it took so much time without being able to see if you did something wrong. You were basicly in total uncharted territory.

Make me appreciate your work even more.
Does that mean that if you want to use an overlay of the framerate analysis , you have to get that framerate analysis in HDR too ? ( before inserting it in the final video ? ).
Please tell me you didn't have to change every hud during that time frame to manually .. this is nightmare-stuff

 

[BuddyTheBestPuppy]

Is the damage modeling still rudimentary? I wonder if the CPU's will ever get power enough to have realistic damage in GT titles.

 

[Wallach]

Gotta subscribe to that Patreon

Worth. Have had this GTS video looping on my X800 direct off USB for like the past hour. Their work on this HDR video pipe has definitely paid off.

 

[Lord Error]

Thanks, you've proved HDR isn't working.

If HDR was working, your SDR screenshots would look like this:

As mentioned before, this is because if you play DCI P3 (which is the colour space of HDR) and take a screenshot, you will see how the colours fall into the wrong place when viewing on an SDR display (or if you look at the screenshot on the S8).

You cannot assume that the screenshot proves anything. That screenshot is taken by the OS, and the OS might very likely be collapsing the buffer into the SDR before saving the screenshot.

I'm saying this because for example, on iOS 11, it's not even possible to take a screenshot of 4K HDR videos being played. The system level screenshot function just blacks out the space where the video is, when you take the screenshot.

 

[Izuna]

You cannot assume that the screenshot proves anything. That screenshot is taken by the OS, and the OS might very likely be collapsing the buffer into the SDR before saving the screenshot.

I'm saying this because for example, on iOS 11, it's not even possible to take a screenshot of 4K HDR videos being played. The system level screenshot function just blacks out the space where the video is, when you take the screenshot.

I know for definite because I have tested it, that with every single HDR playback on the S8 you will get the muted colours like I have shown. Whether it is Amazon Prime Video or via the Native app.

I've tested like, a dozen different S8 and S8+ with the latest version of the YouTube, even trying different region PlayStores just because there's so many people saying it works, but it doesn't.

People are mistaking Video Enchancer or Adaptive Display for HDR. Turn those off and see that these HDR videos on YouTube look the same as they all do. In fact, you can install an old RT version of the YouTube apk and it looks the same.

I'm absolutely sure that when HDR activates on the S8, it will always say so like my previous image.

 

[ghibli99]

Subbed just to download this video.

Edit: Damn, nice work! I was kinda lukewarm after the demo, but I think I'm going to pick this up anyway. Not really feeling Forza 7, so maybe this'll do the trick.

 

[Sygma]

You cannot assume that the screenshot proves anything. That screenshot is taken by the OS, and the OS might very likely be collapsing the buffer into the SDR before saving the screenshot.

I'm saying this because for example, on iOS 11, it's not even possible to take a screenshot of 4K HDR videos being played. The system level screenshot function just blacks out the space where the video is, when you take the screenshot.

he actually gave a good example of why its not working. id get that result if i took a screenshot of the mp4 video

 

[dark10x]

Damn ..
all this stuff happenned ?
I appreciate your work , but man , all of this sound so annoying , so much problems
The youtube encode process especially should have been torture since it took so much time without being able to see if you did something wrong. You were basicly in total uncharted territory.

Make me appreciate your work even more.
Does that mean that if you want to use an overlay of the framerate analysis , you have to get that framerate analysis in HDR too ? ( before inserting it in the final video ? ).
Please tell me you didn't have to change every hud during that time frame to manually .. this is nightmare-stuff

Well, for the frame-rate stuff, we can now decouple the graph at least so I could run an SDR version of the HDR footage through, get the frame-rate data, then bring it back to the main project where I could then translate the colors of the graph to HDR space. Takes a little extra effort but it works out.

Oh, and by the way. The REAL HDR's killer app is Wipeout Omega Collection on Zone (2048).

Heh, just shows how perception varies. I found Wipeout's HDR implementation to be lacking. It really disappointed me.

 

[Yjynx]

Have anyone tried GTS on Sony ZD9? My friend told me it's really a whole new revelation...

Edit:
It'd be really interesting if we can test GTS on different TV and with different variance of nits. Do it DF!

 

[AstroNut325]

I'm still 2-3 years away from getting a HDR capable TV. And I mostly game on a computer monitor now. And HDR capable computer monitors cost more than the TV I have in my living room! :/