Support NeoGAF

[theofficefan99]

Funny how it's 2017 and gay people still need to be scared about being bullied, harassed, and killed.

I'm sick and tired of enablers, and I'm sick and tired of religion. At this point I don't care if that offends anyone. All it does is breed ignorance.

 

[JettDash]

How is it possible that after all this time, people still believe that "free speech" means people are guaranteed a platform? If the president himself flew to Cleveland to tear down the posters and call the people who posted them a bunch of fucking losers, it would cause no constitutional crisis.

We have to give fascist scum a platform otherwise we are as bad as them because reasons.


I remember some quote where someone was asked about how many people he killed. People? None. Fascists. Lots. That's pretty much how I would feel about it if it came down to it.

 

[Saya]

"all voices"

"both sides"

"very fine people"

 

[Red Liquorice]

They quote these statistics for what? Like there's a link between being gay and wanting to commit suicide? Did they think that maybe living in a world where you are told you are worthless, disgusting, and second class has something to do with that? Of course they didn't think that because it comes from the same people who look at crime stats and see a link to skin colour etc.

We need a proper discussion about freespeech - because it doesn't mean you can just go around threatening peoples lives or saying vile things about people and hide behind freespeech - that's not what freespeech means, at all.

 

[JettDash]

They quote these statistics for what? Like there's a link between being gay and wanting to commit suicide? Did they think that maybe living in a world where you are told you are worthless, disgusting, and second class has something to do with that? Of course they didn't think that because it comes from the same people who look at crime stats and see a link to skin colour etc.

We need a proper discussion about freespeech - because it doesn't mean you can just go around threatening peoples lives or saying vile things about people and hide behind freespeech - that's not what freespeech means, at all.

I think it is more likely that they know this. And want to encourage it. Because they are evil.

 

[DieNgamers]

Is there a difference between hate speech and free speech? I would think so.

 

[JettDash]

Is there a difference between hate speech and free speech? I would think so.

In the US, legally, not much unless the speech is, "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."

 

[Linkup]

They quote these statistics for what? Like there's a link between being gay and wanting to commit suicide? Did they think that maybe living in a world where you are told you are worthless, disgusting, and second class has something to do with that? Of course they didn't think that because it comes from the same people who look at crime stats and see a link to skin colour etc.

We need a proper discussion about freespeech - because it doesn't mean you can just go around threatening peoples lives or saying vile things about people and hide behind freespeech - that's not what freespeech means, at all.

They always do this. They take the result and use it to backup their claim ignoring why the result happened in the first place. That's why they have to deny history and claim it's fake. Everybody wants their view/position to be logical regardless if they have to ignore reality.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Such a lack of empathy for the suffering of people, this world is fucking rotten to the core.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

That school president should resign, there's no way to defend such a flier/group.

 

[Usobuko]

That poster is something else, something deliberately so vile to be exact.

But hey, just another different sets of opinions.

 

[NHarmonic.]

People need to realize "free speech" is about the government not being able to imprison you or fine you for saying things, not "let's let everybody run their damn fool mouths no matter what, where, when, why or how"

Even then, i fail to understand why the responsibles for this flyer shouldn't be sued or even imprisoned. This is violent af.
But hey, slippery slopes i guess?

 

[JettDash]

Even then, i fail to understand why the responsibles for this flyer shouldn't be sued or even imprisoned. This is violent af.
But hey, slippery slopes i guess?

Nothing criminal about it and it would probably be hard to prove civil damages.

(I am not saying this is how it should be.)

 

[blackflag]

Garbage

We already have precedent set from recent court case that telling someone to kill themselves is not free speech.

 

[Tregard]

I wonder if Ronald M. Berkman would be so committed to the First Amendment if the campus was covered in posters threatening him personally and asking him to kill himself?

Shameful actions and an absolute travesty, I would be seething if my university gave such a piss poor response to something so cruel.

People need to realize "free speech" is about the government not being able to imprison you or fine you for saying things, not "let's let everybody run their damn fool mouths no matter what, where, when, why or how"

Even then though, aren't some things not covered by free speech? I'm thinking specifically of saying you are going to kill the President.

 

[SapientWolf]

They should find out who is distributing these flyers and make that information known to the students at the University, and the general public. They shouldn't be able to spew hate with the benefit of anonymity.

I would also argue that there's no discourse on whether LGBTQ students should be encouraged commit suicide. The flyer isn't civil and the point is not open to debate. So there's no reason to allow the flyer to be displayed. Students should be informed that they were distributed but they shouldn't be forced to view them. It creates a hostile environment that's completely antithetical to education.

 

[neoanarch]

Violent speech is not covered under the 1st and never has. Fuck the Un bunch of fucking cowards. Wtf

 

[JettDash]

Violent speech is not covered under the 1st and never has. Fuck the Un bunch of fucking cowards. Wtf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

How hard is it to understand the first amendment does not cover hate speech and only protects you from government, like it's fucking clear cut.

 

[Monkeyball]

This is the new normal for the US.

 

[JettDash]

How hard is it to understand the first amendment does not cover hate speech and only protects you from government, like it's fucking clear cut.

The Supreme Court disagrees.

I don't agree, but it's opinion is the one that matters.

 

[Hesemonni]

US doesn't have any hate speech laws?

I mean, in the EU freedom of speech is encouraged which entails of course dirscourses which others might deem inflammatory, but this ... wow.

 

[JettDash]

US doesn't have any hate speech laws?

I mean, in the EU freedom of speech is encouraged which entails of course dirscourses which others might deem inflammatory, but this ... wow.

Literally unconstitutional, according to the Supreme Court.

 

[neoanarch]

The Supreme Court disagrees.

I don't agree, but it's opinion is the one that matters.

This is against individuals and not an institution in like what usually gets covered. Its cowardice on the part of the University fullstop not to even attempt to argue the case.

 

[zoukka]

Russia would be proud!

 

[dumbo]

Literally unconstitutional, according to the Supreme Court.

The US has a very weird relationship with the constitution. It's a document written by flawed people who couldn't see 300 years into the future... it wasn't handed down by god on a stone tablet.

People are supposed to amend the bloody thing, not worship it.

 

[JettDash]

This is against individuals and not an institution in like what usually gets covered. Its cowardice on the part of the University fullstop not to even attempt to argue the case.

I do not know what you mean when you say it is against individuals and not institutions.

The US has a very weird relationship with the constitution. It's a document written by flawed people who couldn't see 300 years into the future... it wasn't handed down by god on a stone tablet.

People are supposed to amend the bloody thing, not worship it.

The decision that firmly made hate speech legal in the US was in 1969. I mean yeah technically it could be amended to change that but easier said than done. Like it would require 2/3 of Congress and 3/4 of the states to do it.

 

[neoanarch]

I do not know what you mean when you say it is against individuals and not institutions.

The follow your fellow.... Singles out individuals. Not only is it prosecutable to drive someone to suicide. Precedent has been set. Its clearly the intent of the flier to drive LGBT students to suicide. This isn't covered by free speech.

 

[Stop It]

Hey free speech absolutism supporters, who is harmed by this not being acceptable speech and thus not protected?

People who want LGBT people dead? How are they even harmed by people saying "Sorry, you're really not allowed to tell people to kill themselves because of something about them you don't like".?

Utterly terrifying that people have more of a right to tell people to kill themselves than the people they're targeting.

 

[JettDash]

The follow your fellow.... Singles out individuals. Not only is it prosecutable to drive someone to suicide. Precedent has been set. Its clearly the intent of the flier to drive LGBT students to suicide. This isn't covered by free speech.

You're just plain wrong.

I could put up posters saying Trump supporters should kill themselves and I would not be prosecuted. And by the way, I do think the world would be a better place if Trump supporters killed themselves. I am not worried about being prosecuted for saying that.

There was one semi contraversal case of a someone being prosecuted for getting someone else to kill himself but she literally told him to go him his carbon monoxide filled car. Plus all the texts between the two telling him to do it.

Zero percent chance that these fliers could result the successful of anyone. ZERO.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Sounds like a top notch school.....

 

[neoanarch]

You're just plain wrong.

I could put up posters saying Trump supporters should kill themselves and I would not be prosecuted.

There was one semi contraversion case of a someone being prosecuted for getting someone else to kill himself but she literally told him to go him his carbon monoxide filled car. Plus all the texts between the two telling him to do it.

Zero percent chance that these fliers could result the successful of anyone. ZERO.

Look at the damn flier. It has the method. The exact people it's targeting prominently fearured. The fact that it's a flier being handed out by people doing it targeting specific people and areas they may frequent. This should be a slam dunk case.

 

[King Tubby]

Hey free speech absolutism supporters, who is harmed by this not being acceptable speech and thus not protected?

People who want LGBT people dead? How are they even harmed by people saying "Sorry, you're really not allowed to tell people to kill themselves because of something about them you don't like".?

Utterly terrifying that people have more of a right to tell people to kill themselves than the people they're targeting.

Well, you know, it's a slippery slope, because nobody has the ability to distinguish different classes of opinion from each other. Telling homosexuals to kill themselves is on the same plane as giving a positive review of Will and Grace. It's impossible to legislate anything because making one law will inevitably lead to making a law that you don't like. That's how the world works, right!?!

Zero percent chance that these fliers could result the successful of anyone. ZERO.

You have no idea if this is even the case. By putting up these fliers in large enough volume, with impunity, it absolutely creates a more oppressive environment. It wouldn't be farfetched if it lead to an uptick in suicide rates for people targeted to see this message repeatedly, and see nothing done about it besides.

 

[Dyle]

Sue the school and rebuild the administration from the ground up, this is blatantly illegal

 

[Elandyll]

Controversial issues...? Opinion divided...

On telling some people to go kill themselves?

Wtf..

 

[VenomousCoffee]

"I forgot to include anything saying that gay people shouldn't die."

 

[neoanarch]

Harassment Law and Legal Definition. Harassment is governed by state laws, which vary by state, but is generally defined as a course of conduct which annoys, threatens, intimidates, alarms, or puts a person in fear of their safety.

Hmmm. So....what the laws are saying is that certain kinds of speech are not actually allowed? I am shocked.

 

[JettDash]

Look at the end flier. It has the method. The exact people it's target towards prominently fearured. The fact that it's a flier being handed out likely the people doing it targeting specific people and areas they may frequent. This should be a slam dunk case.

No chance whatsoever of anyone being prosecuted.

This and that case girl being prosecuted are nothing alike. First of all we know that someone actually did kill himself in that case. Second, we know that she had a long history of urging him to do so, personally. Third, when know he only did it after she personally told him to go back kn his car and kill himself.

Again zero percent chance that anyone gets prosecuted.

Donald Trump should shoot himself in the head. I really believe he should. I am not worried about being prosecuted for saying this. Any Secret Service agents that read this can lick my asshole.

 

[JoeNut]

you need to get rid of these outdated bs amendments that over rule everything and just have regular, modern laws instead, wtf.

 

[neoanarch]

No chance whatsoever of anyone being prosecuted.

This and that case girl being prosecuted are nothing alike. First of all we know that someone actually did kill himself in that case. Second. We know that she had a long history of urging him to do so, personally. Third, when know he only did it after she personally told him to go back kn his car and die.

Again zero percent chance that anyone gets prosecuted.

Donald Trump should shoot himself in the head. I really believe he should. I am not worried about being prosecuted for saying this.

You aren't harassing him though. If you said it to his face you'd be in jail. Rightfully.

 

[JettDash]

You aren't not harassing him though. If you said it to his face you'd be in jail.

The Secret Service might detain me, but then I would tell them to fuck off and give me a lawyer. And they would be forced to release me as I had committed no crime.

 

[Kusagari]

Even if he wasn’t going to do anything, his response couldn’t be more callous. Didn’t even say anything about the content.

 

[neoanarch]

The Secret Service might detain me, but then I would tell them to fuck off and give me a lawyer. And they would be forced to release me as I had committed no crime.

Good luck with that defense. You do understand what harrasment laws are right?

 

[Inuhanyou]

you have a right to tell other people to kill themselves and putting up signs to that end. Pretty sure you dont, that requires authority intervention.


what is the deal with colleges. either they want to restrict speech rights too much or they dont give a shit about protecting civil liberties. It should be common sense to find that balance

I would personally sue

 

[JettDash]

Good luck with that defense. You do understand what harrasment laws are right?

I do understand that telling someone once that he should kill himself is very unlikely to be enough to result in a successful prosecution.

Your could always prove me wrong by providing cases of this happening.

 

[Abstrusity]

you have a right to tell other people to kill themselves? Pretty sure you dont, that requires authority intervention.


what is the deal with colleges. either they want to restrict speech rights too much or they dont give a shit about protecting civil liberties. It should be common sense to find that balance

I would personally sue

Because they're trying to avoid being sued. I mean, it's blatantly obvious. That's why it's better to have people outside of the public system crack a few heads.

If you don't fight them, they will use the rules set forth by a civilized liberal democratic society to tear that civilized liberal democratic society to the ground.

And then the killings start.

This is why violence is being used against Nazi scumbags.

 

[diunxx]

Yhe school president is probably part of that group.

 

[CaviarMeths]

The US has a very weird relationship with the constitution. It's a document written by flawed people who couldn't see 300 years into the future... it wasn't handed down by god on a stone tablet.

People are supposed to amend the bloody thing, not worship it.

I mean yeah but... the First Amendment is an amendment. It's right there in the name.

 

[Banzai]

Weird question: Isn't suicide illegal in some parts? Which would make telling someone to go kill themselves a call to unlawful action, making it not protected by the first amendment?

I have no idea if suicide even is illegal anywhere in the states anymore or if I just made that up and it never was, but I kind of remember reading about it.

 

[jett]

Well that's just idiotic.