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[Anarky]

Quantum racism in serious play ITT

 

[Village]

I love the new SP game and it's one of the funniest games ever made. If there are jokes in the game you don't like then just avoid the game. I don't think anyone is ever going to be forced to play the game, just like no one is forced to watch the TV show. Matt and Trey's humor definitely isn't for everyone, but they are the best at what they do.

In order

Ok?
What if I like south park and hate parts of it don't really like this part in particular and wish to criticize it , you know criticism like all media is subjected to
No one said anyone was forced to play the game
Maybe, that doesn't excuse bad jokes
Hell no they aren't, have you seen other cartoons handle social/ethnicity based political shit? Hell, the thing that Matt and Trey actually do well, absurdity , they aren't even the best at that

 

[Freeman76]

you sure about that?

Dude dont even try and go there. This dude, I'm not even sure he knows what racism even means.

I got a wall of abuse/text as if I am some racist when in reality I couldnt be further from it, it's all projection and bullshit, dont get dragged in imo.

 

[Wink]

I feel like you hold matt and trey in too high regard, sometimes they fuck up jokes. Or forget what jokes are and just come across mean spirited

I do, they're clearly socially highly concious, that's the whole point of South Park. They have brought immense attention and criticism to social issues through their art.

It's how fish are drawn in South Park and then they pallet swapped it to be a black fish. If anything it's a commentary on how we're all just the same fish regardless of color

 

[Onimusha78]

How is the use of blackface here satirical in anyway shape or form?

Some of you keep referring to this as a "joke" yet nobody's answering my question or explaining how it's funny or even meant to be?

 

[Freeman76]

This isnt even about gaming anymore.....

 

[Zero315]

I do, they're clearly socially highly concious, that's the whole point of South Park. They have brought immense attention and criticism to social issues through their art.

Yeah, they're so highly conscious about social issues that they tried to normalize a gay slur. They sure brought a lot of criticism towards gay people who get offended over it.

Some of you keep referring to this as a "joke" yet nobody's answering my question or explaining how it's funny or even meant to be?

They can't because there is no joke. It's just a mammy fish for no reason but to be a mammy fish.

 

[Onimusha78]

They can't because there is no joke. It's just a mammy fish for no reason but to be a mammy fish.

Yeah.. then I think they need to just shut up now. Making up bullshit to defend racism isn't a good look

 

[Wink]

Yeah, they're so highly conscious about social issues that they tried to normalize a gay slur. They sure brought a lot of criticism towards gay people who get offended over it.

And why shouldn't they crticize getting offended. Everyone possibly gets offended on every opposite side of any spectrum. Criticizing being offended is a valid social criticism.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Quantum racism in serious play ITT

I had to look this up and it's perfect. Racism is a concept that people understand but refuse to see.

Anyway I'm tired of making the same point.

If you refuse to see this as a blatant reference to the mammy caricature and want to defend the humour because "Cartmans racism/homophobia is acceptable because he's clearly depicted as a willingly ignorant asshole" then maybe take a few seconds to think about why you're going out of your way to try and defended the blatant depiction of a racist caricature because you think it doesn't look that way/are unaware of it/it's the only way to depict a black character as a fish despite Kanye being green.

 

[BTA]

Dude dont even try and go there. This dude, I'm not even sure he knows what racism even means.

I got a wall of abuse/text as if I am some racist when in reality I couldnt be further from it, it's all projection and bullshit, dont get dragged in imo.

Someone just told you about how racism impacts their daily life and why it isn’t a joke, and your response was “please don’t say fuck please... why are you angry at me...”.

Come on dude. You’re really gonna shittalk someone who responded to you seriously like this just so you can dismiss their argument? If you want to talk about being too sensitive...

 

[Freeman76]

Yeah.. then I think they need to just shut up now. Making up bullshit to defend racism isn't a good look

Thats not really what is happening. This thread is too sensitive a topic, Race/Religion/Politics in forums is a recipe for disaster, nothing comes across well in text form when dealing with such emotive topics. I hope this thread is locked before it gets even more out of control and we arent even discussing gaming anymore.

 

[Freeman76]

Someone just told you about how racism impacts their daily life and why it isn't a joke, and your response was ”please don't say fuck please... why are you angry at me...".

Come on dude. You're really gonna shittalk someone who responded to you seriously like this just so you can dismiss their argument? If you want to talk about being too sensitive...

I dont even see it as a joke, racism has impacted my life pretty badly as well. Anyway, I'm out of this thread, you havent even read back. The only comment I have even made is that overly sensitive people probably shouldnt watch South Park. You cant even be bothered to find out what argument you are wading in on. I dont and never will support any form of racism in any way.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It's how fish are drawn in South Park and then they pallet swapped it to be a black fish.

And gave it big red lips.
And big earrings.

But keep covering your eyes, it's a great way to enter a discussion.

 

[Skittles]

I do, they're clearly socially highly concious, that's the whole point of South Park. They have brought immense attention and criticism to social issues through their art.

It's how fish are drawn in South Park and then they pallet swapped it to be a black fish. If anything it's a commentary on how we're all just the same fish regardless of color

This argument fails because Kanye is a different color

 

[Onimusha78]

Thats not really what is happening. This thread is too sensitive a topic, Race/Religion/Politics in forums is a recipe for disaster, nothing comes across well in text form when dealing with such emotive topics. I hope this thread is locked before it gets even more out of control and we arent even discussing gaming anymore.

Yeah maybe it should be locked. Would still be great if someone answered my question though lol

 

[otakukidd]

And gave it big red lips.
And big earrings.

But keep covering your eyes, it's a great way to enter a discussion.

Actually they gave it just red lips. It's the same model its just a color swap of the Kanye fish

 

[kirblar]

The joke itself is fine, it's just that the depiction of Kanye's mom as a mammy stereotype, in a way that is not meant to satirize the way we handle racial/ethnic stereotyping in real life ala City Wok/the Coon, is of no value, comedic or otherwise. The only thing it can be is hurtful and thus is in uniquely bad taste far different from the satirical purposes in which other stereotypes exist within the series. Unintentional or otherwise, the depiction is racist and is presented free from satire in a way that is uncharacteristic for the series

This is my opinion on this as well.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Actually they gave it just red lips. It's the same model its just a color swap of the Kanye fish

People just ain't lookin if they don't see the mammy

 

[Zero315]

And why shouldn't they crticize getting offended. Everyone possibly gets offended on every opposite side of any spectrum. Criticizing being offended is a valid social criticism.

Are you really saying that LGBTQ people should be criticized for being offended by the use and attempted normalization of fag? That episode has been used time and time again (yes, even here on GAF) by non-LGBTQ people to shout down arguments because "South Park said it was okay and it doesn't mean that anymore" or "I'm just trying to take the power out of the word like South Park did".

 

[SomedayTheFire]

It's a pretty shitty and racist "joke". Hell it's not even a joke it's just pretty shitty and racist. The defence from some on here, is not unexpected though.

 

[HiiiLife]

How is the use of blackface here satirical in anyway shape or form?

They ain’t trying to hear this.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

I really don’t understand how people can not see how blatant that imagery is. It’s cut and dry.

 

[ApharmdX]

Kanye supporting Trump, a nazi sympathizer, is far worse/more offensive/racist than any joke that anyone could possibly tell about his mom. I don't feel one ounce of sympathy for him. Too late for Kanye to be like "I don't support him anymore" either. South Park guys are joking around. Kanye literally said "if I voted I would have voted for Trump"....so stop defending him and whatever kind of person raised him to be that stupid.

I still think Kanye is a great rapper/producer, for what it's worth.

I have no problem with South Park hitting Kanye West for the problematic things that he's said and done. But his late mom wasn't a rich and famous celebrity, just the mother of one. Mocking her with a fish (that is clearly blackface!!) is punching down in a big way. Comedians shouldn't punch down like that. It makes you an asshole. I'm fine with Trey and Matt mocking other rich and famous assholes like Paris Hilton, Travolta, R. Kelly, Tom Cruise, or Trump. Once you've turned your eye to their unassuming family members and started to mock them with racist shit, you have crossed a line.

Quantum racism in serious play ITT

Uh huh, absolutely.

 

[blakep267]

What's with them and this obsession with Kanyes mom.


Oh and of course the South Park defense squad at work.

 

[DwightSchruting]

This isnt even about gaming anymore.....

Of course it is, it’s happening in video games and as gamers we should want games which are expressive and push the envelope even a comedic game.

But we should not stand by when our games are used to express blatant racism. This is definitely gaming related.

 

[Nzyme32]

Why do you think it's not intentional?

I'd assume you wouldn't selectively only make one fish blackface if this was more intentional. Most blackface stuff has applied this to all "black" characters. Why not apply this to Kanye? They didn't. So I guess that might be one point of view

Personally, I never thought blackface till some neogaf folks had a thread. For several days after that trailer I didn't see any mention of it. So I guess I just both read in the wrong places and am so beyond that time that the thought didn't occur to me. But that's just me. You'd really only get a half reasonable answer from the creators commenting, and then you would at least be able to judge if they are lieing or not. With a history of South Park to think of, I can't recall them making any blackface stuff or commentary on it. Usually with South Park there is context and some wonky logic, whether as a "joke" or to bring out some geniune satirical commentary on a situation.

- So I find it odd to think this is purposeful as from the trailer it makes no sense. I need to play the game to get full context. So far all I have his the fish sticks joke from the show, and the running commentary from E3

What's with them and this obsession with Kanyes mom.


Oh and of course the South Park defense squad at work.

Does anyone with an opinion different to your own form a "defence squad" and any one who has the same point of view is "right"? Seems like a rather pointless way to bait people.

"Obsession" with Kanye's mom can hardly be called that imo. Kanye was the butt of South Park jokes for a while. For whatever reason, once Kanye announced a game about his mom getting to heaven, that's where South Park creators have pounced, as per E3. This is the first use of his mom in South Park as far as I know

 

[PixelatedBookake]

Not a funny joke. Super racist. Their hangups with shitting on Kanye's mom is fucked up. That is all.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

What's with them and this obsession with Kanyes mom.


Oh and of course the South Park defense squad at work.

Because quite simply it's great fun winding the likes of him (and you) up.

 

[Nzyme32]

Because quite simply it's great fun winding the likes of him (and you) up.

I suppose that's another thing. They get kicks out of winding any group or celebrity up. Tom Cruise and the literal closet being a rather funny one imo. Scientology another, and well put together. The N word episode also fantastically over the top. Equally plenty of people take offence to all of those.

 

[(mat)]

I mean, like, I don't particularly want to partake in any discussion in this thread, because none of it is particularly constructive, and all pretty toxic (regardless about which stance you take on the whole thing), but I couldn't help but question this:

Oh and of course the South Park defense squad at work.

If somebody who defends South Park is automatically part of the "South Park defense squad", isn't it obvious they'd "be at work" in this thread? Is it possible to defend South Park without being on the "defense squad"? Are you simply suggesting that nobody should ever defend South Park? I'm not trying to be judgmental, or rude, I'm just genuinely trying to figure out that statement.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Funny how no one who's defending this can actually explain the satiristical element of this supposed joke.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Funny how no one who's defending this can actually explain the satiristical element of this supposed joke.

Kanye's mother died because of complications from plastic surgery that he paid for.

Kanye West is an arsehole who cannot take a joke.

South Park had an episode about him not taking a joke involving a fish.

People who have plastic surgery often end up with fish looking lips.

Kanye is very sore over the death of his mother and still can't take the south park joke.

Kanye's mother is a fish with funny lips.

I hope this helps the hard of thinking process things.

 

[ThatsMytrunks]

I think the fish looks like blackface (intentional or not), and the mockery is of a dude who tried to make a tribute to his dead mother. I think it's in poor taste either way.

 

[dugdug]

I feel like this is no more or less racist than the City Wok/ Mongolian jokes from Stick of Truth.

I understand many people have moved on past South Park's humor, but, is this not just what they do?

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Kanye's mother died because of complications from plastic surgery that he paid for.

Kanye West is an arsehole who cannot take a joke.

South Park had an episode about him not taking a joke involving a fish.

People who have plastic surgery often end up with fish looking lips.

Kanye is very sore over the death of his mother and still can't take the south park joke.

Kanye's mother is a fish with funny lips.

I hope this helps the hard of thinking process things.

I'm obviously talking about the depiction of Kanye's mother since it's the topic at hand.

She's not just a fish with "funny lips" whatever the fuck that means, there's a reason they showed her like this.

Nice snark though

 

[bitbydeath]

Here we go again, PC GAF here to run this into the ground again.

 

[Kei-]

To be clear, I’m not saying they should patch it out or something. I’m saying it’s a bad idea that they shouldn’t have had to begin with and certainly shouldn’t have put in the game (among many other things).

Also, c’mon dude, a racist joke mocking someone wanting to make a tribute to their late mother (whose passing significantly impacted their life) isn’t really an essential part of the game that only a true mature adult values or something something, is it?

And if a comedian made a joke that shitty live I would sorta hope someone would speak up.

Right, the image itself isn't humorous to me, but I have no context for it. But I have no problem with it inherently because like I said, you should be allowed to try to make a joke about literally anything and everything. It's either all okay, or none of it is okay when it comes to making jokes.

The punishment for making a bad joke is that it doesn't land and you lose the audience that night and possibly more like your career like in the case of Michael Richards. Btw, he went off on a racist tirade as a result of people speaking loudly in the audience, I don't know that he was doing racial material before hand.

If a comedian makes a joke you find shitty, by all means speak up, but don't ruin a show for everyone else. Do it after the show, write an open letter or something.

If she was green then it would be more than apparent that she was Kanye's mom because she'd have the same skin colour as him... plus you know, he directly refers to her as mom.

Also by the same logic the joke doesn't work visually because Kanye isn't black too.



Good jokes and racist jokes come from the same place. If you're going to use joke based around minorities you need to be careful with them, especially if you're a couple of white guys. Lindsey Ellis did a great video on Mel Brooks and covers why this line of thought is an issue here.

Beyond that part of criticism is being free to say it's racist and shouldn't be used. That anybody who is okay with this kind of thing should seriously reconsider their view instead of just pretending like it's not intentionally racist or not caring about it because they're not the group being targeted.

Exactly, all jokes have the same genesis of being an attempt at humor, some land and some don't. They should live and die by their own merit. And yes, it's okay to say it's racist and shouldn't be used.

 

[GeordieMark]

I’m a big South Park fan but I find jokes at the expense of a guy’s dead mother to be unnecessarily cruel, no matter who the guy is. It’s a bit personal for my liking. Poking fun at different groups is different to singling out one guy in such a harsh way. Kanye is no angel, but he’s human and doesn’t deserve to be mocked about his mum.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Mental gymnastics in defense of unmistakable mammy imagery.

Could have saved you some typing.

 

[Onimusha78]

Kanye's mother died because of complications from plastic surgery that he paid for.

Kanye West is an arsehole who cannot take a joke.

South Park had an episode about him not taking a joke involving a fish.

People who have plastic surgery often end up with fish looking lips.

Kanye is very sore over the death of his mother and still can't take the south park joke.

Kanye's mother is a fish with funny lips.

I hope this helps the hard of thinking process things.

Gold medal for this excellent display of mental gymnastics. His mum was drawn in blackface. Stop skating around the issue.

Man people suck.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

Kanye's mother died because of complications from plastic surgery that he paid for.

Kanye West is an arsehole who cannot take a joke.

South Park had an episode about him not taking a joke involving a fish.

People who have plastic surgery often end up with fish looking lips.

Kanye is very sore over the death of his mother and still can't take the south park joke.

Kanye's mother is a fish with funny lips.

I hope this helps the hard of thinking process things.

Hah yeah big lips. so funny!

I mean, like, I don't particularly want to partake in any discussion in this thread, because none of it is particularly constructive, and all pretty toxic (regardless about which stance you take on the whole thing)

Not exactly sure what’s toxic about pointing out blatantly obvious racism.

 

[Skittles]

Let me make my racist jokes in peace

FTFY

 

[Onimusha78]

LOL rape.



What a zinger. South Park or Ubi hiring writers?

 

[Conor_Fool]

I feel like this is no more or less racist than the City Wok/ Mongolian jokes from Stick of Truth.

I understand many people have moved on past South Park's humor, but, is this not just what they do?

Seriously, god damn lmao. South Park has countless racist jokes about Asians and is hardly ever criticized yet this dumb little joke has people on the verge of mental breakdowns. Cannot believe people are still getting so upset about South Park.

 

[Bronx-Man]

What a surprise, a thread full of white dudes saying there's no big deal about blackface. I'm truly shocked.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Seriously, god damn lmao. South Park has countless racist jokes about Asians and is hardly ever criticized yet this dumb little joke has people on the verge of mental breakdowns. Cannot believe people are still getting so upset about South Park.

They've seen something they don't like in a game, and want to discuss it on a forum for game discussion. So upset.

 

[Onimusha78]

Seriously, god damn lmao. South Park has countless racist jokes about Asians and is hardly ever criticized yet this dumb little joke has people on the verge of mental breakdowns. Cannot believe people are still getting so upset about South Park.

If it's a joke where's the punchline? Its the equivalent of me looking at you with a straight face and saying "asians are subhuman" :l

And I'm over the "joke" btw. I decided not to buy the game and moved on until this thread. The thing that's actually winding me up now is the people just spouting bullshit in defense of this "joke".

 

[bitbydeath]

What a surprise, a thread full of white dudes saying there's no big deal about blackface. I'm truly shocked.

Let’s even things up with some whiteface.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Let’s even things up with some whiteface.

Not the same thing by miles, but then from the other thread I surmised a long time ago that you're not interested in engaging this topic in good faith.