• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The state of NeoGAF

Status
Not open for further replies.
Aces&Eights

Aces&Eights

Member
ChaosZeroX said:
I can't believe some.people are actually staying after hearing everything. I hope you realize that by staying all your doing is endorsing what the owner of this site has done.

There are other gaming forums out there.

I for one would like to request someone PM me the new site people are moving to. I have reddit and would like something to replace Gaf. I can't support this site anymore.
Click to expand...

This is the problem. Everyone "hears" something so blackball a guy and try to destroy his work? Lawd, when the great flight of 2017 is over I'm going to be wasting even more time at work browsing GAF.
 
A

Alter_Fridge

Member
Kingpin Rogers said:
I for one am incredibly glad gaf is back up and staying that way. It might sound stupid but not being able to access made me realize all the nerdy things I was going to miss out on like the Mario Odyssey review thread and other discussions. The changes to OT sound like they'll be positive and hopefully, we can all just move forward and become a better site as a whole.
Click to expand...

I feel same way 100% bro

ImpoliteMediocreFlickertailsquirrel.gif
 
S

Shadio

Member
jokkir said:
I don't get how making the mod team anonymous is going to help the site. So many times the mods would abuse their power and users would call them out but can't even do that now. Like how would the userbase even trust mods if they can't even know who they are and have to trust a small handful of people to pick them. Especially when there were clear issues with past mods
Click to expand...

I don't think you could ever call mods out for abusing power. Both because it was impossible, and that commenting on moderation could earn you a ban itself.

I believe mod decisions were only ever known to other mods. People who got banned couldn't find out who did it, and threads were usually locked using the Modbot account with an anonymous inflammatory remark for good measure.

Anonymous modding is likely just to protect the mods from any harrassment or attention that comes with being a mod. I know I was concerned with interacting with moderators because of the reputation this site has for bans. But I've also seen people treat them as if they were special because of it. Without the red names, we have no choice but to think of everyone as an equal. I think that's a good thing.

Given that moderating decisions were always anonymous to some extent, there's no real reason that normal users actually needed to know who they are anyway.
 
A

Aurongel

Member
What made this forum popular and respected was the quality of the moderation, the diversity of its base and the attractiveness for developers to reach their audience.

I feel like this place has gotten away from those ideals and I don't see any indication of them coming back. I'd like to discuss these in a more serious capacity but I'll probably wait for the frenzy to die down a bit.

I love you GAF, but we need a new approach in terms of how we conduct ourselves. Also, temporarily shuttering the OT is probably a smart move. But the shuttering of political discussion entirely will cause problems down the line.

Like it or not, games are art. And like most other forms of art, they need to be open to discourse regarding the politics they embellish. But on the opposite hand, the daily Trump tweet reaction threads and fear mongering extremism needed to go - full stop.

I think there can be a future for this place but the approach needs to be more nuanced and transparent.

Love y'all.
 
Mahadev

Mahadev

Member
Ombra said:
A lot of people showed their ass when they thought they "won", the most surprising being a Microsoft employee.

glad the forum is finally back.
#Vivaneogaf
Click to expand...


That's because the completely toxic political environment of the Off-topic existed in the Gaming side too. With the complete agreement of the mods people were dog-piling on innocent working people because they said something the clique didn't like or approve. It made the industry an enemy of the entire forum even though it was only a loud minority that constantly attacked them.


demon said:
Same. Labeling people as sexist or some kind of Progressive traitor for merely criticizing Hillary Clinton was not exactly uncommon and it was emblematic of the kind of atmosphere that developed over the last few years or so here. Discourse had definitely become toxic and extremely unwelcoming to those whose views didn't exactly conform to an insanely narrow and narrow-minded idea of what progressivism and "the left" should be. Purity tests indeed. Progressive critical thinking is great. 'Poligaf' definitely went up its own ass though.
Click to expand...


I agree wholeheartedly with this. This was my experience as well.
 
U

Uno Venova

Banned
NeededSleep said:
Not sure this is a great path to go down, or even agree with decisions you have made in the past for sure.

I will say thanks for at least keeping neogaf around over these past years. Because of that, i have meet some good folks from gaming side and communities.

Just want to recognize good folk over the years and say thanks for their posts or friendships. Many times i agreed with or laughed my ass off too.

*Dennis
*Durantee
*Wario64
*Shinobi604
*DryvBy
*AlmostHeathen
*EightbitNate
*Mrluchador
*Leaf(from steamgaf)
*Sajajja
*MammaRobotnik
Click to expand...

Some of those dudes, Shinobi and Durante, are going to be with ResetERA.
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Wait.

Did he compare me to Dennis, the guy with the Deus Ex avatar?

He compared me to that Dennis?

Are you serious?

DENNIS?

That is beyond the pale.


Edit: lol, the amount of arguments I had with Dennis years ago.

harvey.gif
Click to expand...
Do you mean Derrick?
 
M

mikeGFG

Banned
OrangeJulius said:
You do know the definition of rape don't you? There have been absolutely no allegations of rape against Tyler to my knowledge. The worst he did was grab a girls ass while drunk and woefully misinterpret some signals. Something everyone who has interacted with another adult has done at one point or another in their life. I'm not going to crucify the guy for that.

If that makes you a rapist, then 98% of all humans are rapists.
Click to expand...

I have not done what he has done. And I hope to never cause to distress to another person in the way he did.
 
ViolentP

ViolentP

Member
sinkfla87 said:
Nah you can't unless you want to be considered complicit in the act of rape. Oh, and don't use any electronics by the way because that would make you complicit in the act of lining the pockets of rich monsters who run slave labor camps. You probably shouldn't eat meat either becau-

Weird how I thought this was a gaming forum.
Click to expand...

It became a safespace for those who turned on the owner. Beautifully poetic, really. Hope it becomes a gaming forum once again.
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
I feel that prohibiting political and social discourse is completely the wrong play here. You're basically giving a victory to all the same people that were happy about the allegations made against EviLore. Feels like we're being punished and silenced for leaning left-wing. I thought some mods were a bit quick on the trigger with bans in those threads, but no way would I ever call the environment "toxic." Hopefully, this decision is reconsidered, because it feels like a huge loss otherwise.
 
D

Dr. Feel Good

Banned
As someone who’s been here for over ten years shit like this makes me said it was so easy for this place to collapse.

The last few years were increasingly hostile however and my level of posting decreased dramatically as discussion was often just left for controversial opinions and bitching. There’s definitely something wrong with how the community has evolved but I don’t think it’s dead.
 
R

remist

Member
Even if you are innocent, the message you take is banning all politics and less transparency in moderation. Is this a troll? Did someone hack the site?
 
G

ganbareneopokekun

Member
For me, gaf was always about its duality of Ot and gaming. And i dont understand why Ot has to be modified when this whole thing is first and foresmost about your allegations. What about asking the community and Not do leaderlike moves.

Dunno man, feels wrong
 
L

Ludovico

Member
ZeoVGM said:
So I just want to say two separate things: NeoGAF has been a big part of my life for 10 years now. I was banned under the 'omg rite' for being too argumentative. And I was, I was an ass. But I read it every day and I still felt like I was part of the community.

In maybe January of this year, after being off for a few years, I commented on one of Tyler's tweets, thanking him for a progressive announcement he had made. Stump reached out to me via a DM and said they were unbanning me. He helped me change my name to ZeoVGM and set up a new email. I was floored and so damn happy to be part of the community again.

I'm close to going down a ranting hole but my point is, I love this community and I hate that it seems to be imploding after becoming part of it again this year. Obviously, with the accusations, that is not the most important aspect of this story. But I just wanted to get that out there.

The other thing I wanted to comment on is the decision that was made about the OT.

While I partly understand keeping it closed for a little bit after what happened, I deeply disagree with the choice to keep politics out of the OT after.

NeoGAF's community and reaction toward current events and politics is part of what makes the site what it is. Banning talk of that, to be quite honest, is giving a big win to GamerGate and every other racist, sexist, homophobic, piece of trash group out there.

The reason that disgusting group on not-Reddit exists is because those people are full of hate and they despise the fact that GAF is one of the most progressive and open communities in gaming. If GAF is going to continue, that shouldn't be thrown away. Yes, it can be difficult at time. That's okay.

What's happening in the world right now is important and this community is on the right side of history. Don't silence that, guys.

That's all, I guess. I still need to fully process a lot of this but wanted to say that. Thanks.
Click to expand...


It's surreal - we're witnessing an ongoing hybrid war between gamergate and gaf, all while under what looks like weak leadership at best, and a power abusing hypocrite at worst. Just look at the talking points and how many accounts are swarming out just to gloat or say that gaf were the bad guys all along.

I think the moderation went a long way in keeping this place an excellent platform for information, discussion, and legitimate friendships. A few bad users have unfortunately been allowed to fester, given cover by the owner, but there's no way that's representative of the community as a whole - there's no other place like this.
And gg saying that any right or even center opinions are immediately shut down are failing to bring the receipts. Yeah, the dog piling can get gross, but you have to go out of your way in derailing a thread to warrant a ban.


I'm hoping that Tyler is held accountable for the handling of this, as well as the issue that started the whole thing I'd it bears out to be true.
I'm hoping this community recovers, because it's been a huge part of my life, and a positive place to learn, discuss, and relax.
I'm hoping internet toxicity is not a growing trend - phones are becoming ubiquitous with our youngest generation, and they need proper modeling as to what kind of Internet civilians we want them to be.

Anyway, I hope I see more gaf regulars, contributing positively to make this the best place to catch up on games, hobbies, and hopefully we'll all start seeing the bigger picture together.
 
D

Doodis

Member
Off Topic was my daily go-to for the latest news. I rarely even went into the gaming forum anymore. Bummed it’s gone, even if it’s only temporarily.
 
M

Marjar

Banned
Well, this was a fun series of events. All it took for this shithole of a site to go into utter chaos was a sexual misconduct allegation. That's just how bad this place has gotten with its political extremism and views on men and sex. I'm not saying that Evilore is innocent or anything, I don't believe that for a second considering this isn't the first time he's been a little too eager for some ass. For a while now, this place has been a hivemind of radical leftist drivel, where the slightest right leaning opinion would bring about immediate grounds for permanent banishment from the site. I don't remember the last time I saw a legitimately conservative thought posted here with the user unscathed.

I hope the reaction from the internet has opened the eyes of some users here. Everyone fucking hates you. NeoGAF outside of NeoGAF is a laughing stock. 4chan hates you. Reddit hates you. Twitch hates you. Even Tumblr hates you. Tumblr! The land of over 9000 pronouns. This is quite literally the North Korea of discussion boards. The only tears shed for NeoGAF have been tears of laughter over how fucked this place is. You only have yourselves to blame, especially you Evilore, since you're the one who allowed the mods to become so ban happy and so corrupt. You made your bed. It's a bed made of spikes and surrounded by an angry mob of crazed liberals. Now fucking lie in it.

I've been done with this site for a while now after realizing that there's no turning back for it, so I really don't care what happens to this account. To all of you users here who still have some semblance of decency, leave now and look for a new forum. GAF sucks, Evilore sucks, I hope this plane crashes with no survivors.

Peace out, fags.
 
K

kimifan141

Member
The community meltdown was expected, this is what happens when you overmoderate and lock down the place too much , people kept their rage in silence until the breaking point.

That being said will be just lurking around from now on for the news only , back to the good old steam forums.
 
S

SteveO409

Did you know Halo invented the FPS?
I believe Evilore. Not sure how you can believe a claim with no evidence or proof. Hope 2018 is merrier for gaf
 
Astral Dog

Astral Dog

Member
Well stuff didn't look good in your favor...
But i will choose not to judge until more is cleared out, mostly thanks to the community you formed, its full of wonderful people and i would be truly sad if that was the end.

denying this is heavy, but to me GAF means more than any individual and you (and the mods) know that very well, so i hope there is a reason for all of this.really
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
The Albatross said:
The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
Click to expand...

Perfect post. And fuck everyone who is just bending over and keeping on. This place has problems and they start at the top. Until the disease is gone, the forum will never be a place worth being.
 
N

Nights Owl

Member
Trey said:
I've seen more ugly and childish remarks in console war threads than anything I've seen in a political debate.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you mean here. I've been lucky enough not to, I suppose. Sorry you've seen stupid shit. I just want a nice place to talk about games. It seems nearly impossible.
 
T

Trey

Member
prag16 said:
Oh no, God forbid anything beyond a left wing echo chamber is tolerated around here!

This type of attitude was a big part of why the OT side was so damn toxic to begin with. This type of attitude is part of the problem. Bringing some sanity and balance into what often became a vitriolic echo chamber is a good thing, not a bad thing. (Granted I haven't read every post you may be referring to, so what I just said obviously doesn't apply to obvious and overt offensive shit.)


I'm hopeful that things will be better this time, and am willing to give this place another chance. Cheers.
Click to expand...

"Sanity and balance."
 
F

Future

Member
Link said:
I feel that prohibiting political and social discourse is completely the wrong play here. You're basically giving a victory to all the same people that were happy about the allegations made against EviLore. Feels like we're being punished and silenced for leaning left-wing. I thought some mods were a bit quick on the trigger with bans in those threads, but no way would I ever call the environment "toxic." Hopefully, this decision is reconsidered, because it feels like a huge loss otherwise.
Click to expand...

I think it could become pretty toxic at times. In some ways it’s the quick to jump to conclusions attitude that caused the forum to eat itself after this news
 
H

HeelPower

Member
vonStirlitz said:
Man, the first few pages of this thread are like a list of the lost.

Frankly, and speaking as a lawyer here, it is not appropriate to discuss allegations while they remain hearsay and open to dispute. However, the allegations arose in a politically heated environment, and were handled badly, and have created a significant amount of rightful distaste among the community. This has travelled to the less generous parts of the web, where it is open season on the community.

Secondly, we are a community, and notwithstanding allegations (rightly or wrongly) against the owner, we have to make a distinction between the owner and the community. For example, I may dislike (to put it mildly) Trump, but I still love America and Americans.

This is GAF, it is a community, and the majority of its members and former mods were decent people having fantastic discourse. It was my go to site for news, gaming and off-topic, and provided me with many smiles, if not loud laughter, thoughts, some challenging but all nourishing, over the years.

It would be a shame to lose this, because there aren't many refuges of enlightened, collegiate, somewhat boisterous, but generally well meant debate and community left on the web. GAF was one of those, and if it passes, in the form we knew, loved, and hated, then something dies.

On a last point of warning, OT needs to be brought back, and the comments about moderating out social and political topics needs to be dropped. A good site, with good moderators, will keep things in line. That is why we came here. The minute a site says that we are incapable of addressing certain topics, and being big boys and girls about it, then that site loses its identity and purpose.

Peace. Chill everyone.
Click to expand...

Please read this.
 
S

Shadio

Member
MatrixMan.EXE said:
Re-read what you've written here and see if you can point out what's wrong with it.
Click to expand...

What I mean by impossible is that if a mod didn't want you to know they were taking action against you, there'd be no way of finding out.

Even if discussion of moderation was allowed, they still wouldn't have to tell you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Mod to the future
2
378
killatopak replied
Baldur's Gate 3 Devs Working on Official Mod Support Plan, Including for Consoles
News
9
1K
Doom85 replied
The GTA V source code was sold for $2000 to a modding community
Drama Rumor 2
59
5K
polybius80 replied
Overwatch devs claim Bobby Kotick sabotaged OW2’s Steam launch
News Drama Game Dev 2 3 4
179
11K
ViciousAgenda replied
Nexus Mods to increase prices by 40%+ in June
News 2
85
4K
Solarstrike replied
Top Bottom