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kuncol02
Banned
Because that studio is giant experiment in games making. Big studios heavily rely on outsourcing anyway so they wanted to check how much can be outsourced. I guess it's less than they initially expected.
skit_data
Member
I take this as The Initiative as a concept/dev team is pretty much non-existent. Perfect Dark will essentially be a Xbox exclusive developed by Crystal Dynamics. I wonder how much they paid Square Enix for this? Considering the outrageous price for Rise of Tomb Raider exclusivity I bet Square Enix are very happy.
Papacheeks
Banned
Show me a studio that started from Scratch with no previous members who didn't work with one another? Most new startup studios come from previous teams/studios who worked together. People who left Blizzard literally started multiple new studios housed with mostly ex Blizzard talent.
So they all had worked together. The Initiative is literally MS throwing giant checks around to grab people from Crystal, Insomniac, Rockstar, Ubisoft. None of the higher ups like Lead animation manager worked with any of these dudes. They knew their past work, but in terms of how they operate in a team, they were learning that for the first time.
It's like you didn't read the article break down of how no one was really creating a culture/Synergy with teams. Which you need to get stuff done and meet milestones.
Like all new studios that have formed recently like Haven, Deviation all have previous teams from previous studios working there. And a lot of them poach more people from the same studios the left from.
Thats how successful development happens. Rarely does a new studio work out when its all people who have never worked together are all pulled from different place and thrown in together. Only way that works is like Banjo and I said. you start on a small project and people who dont fit or work well with small project leave, and people get brought in that do work.
Takes time over projects to get to know someone, their work flows, or style.
Microsoft literally set themselves up to fail. I would have just told them to work on a small game like a F2P arcade shooter, or a indie 2D/3D plaforming title, or hell a click and point game.
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Might as well shut down the initiative and buy CD
Papacheeks
Banned
That may happen after the Activision/Blizzard deal goes through. As it sits right now MS can't do anything acquisition wise until that deal is done.
jm89
Member
Why would square enix sell to MS? Yes they would get money in the short term, but they are losing a really good studio and this climate that sounds liek a disaster move.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Just looking at the Initiative wiki page two of the main people are from Crystal Dynamics and worked together. I have no idea where the other 70+ people previously worked, but it's not that crazy to assume other people worked together as well. All we really know about Deviation games is two people who worked together on Call of Duty that do all the press for the studio. Sounds incredibly similar to the Initiative when you read every press release on Deviation.
How many employees need to have previously worked together to meet this criteria of yours? How many worked together previously at Deviation? My only point is that we see new studios forming all the time right now, in nearly the same fashion as the Initiative. Deviation literally has about the same number of employees, and has a director of outsourcing and is following a similar path. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.
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this good studio have been giving underperforming performance for years and Avengers was the final nail for them. if it was good studio for them then wouldn't let the studio work on IP not owned by SE.
MS probably paid big bucks for This.
Darrell Gallagher leadership lost Xbox Money and Time is the story of The Initiative
who knows maybe the whole SE acquisition not just CD lol
dcmk7
Banned
For someone approaching retirement apparently.
This just might be the saddest thing I've read this year.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
how do people have time to do this kind of digging, do they actually play games? I’m only speaking for myself but I would never, ever, ever look through linked in or dig through employee history to do this kind of shit. Like how many hours do people have free and why wouldn’t they be playing games instead? Crazy fans are crazy!
Punished Miku
Gold Member
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
What if I told you that actually they are playing their favorite game.
holy shit! You genuinely just blew my mind! Hahaha.
oldergamer
Member
Im pretty sure they worked out a deal with them as they were expecting a mass exodus of CD. Or they caught wind of staff getting cut and offered to step in. You need to draw people from somewhere. There are only so many dev studios in that area.
kuncol02
Banned
Every single game made by western studios of Square is considered financial failure by them. At this point they really should just sell them to anyone else. Almost any other company would be better than Square.
Lognor
Banned
I don't hate this news. Crystal Dynamics is extremely talented. I hope that Perfect Dark will remain a first person shooter though and won't become Tomb Raider but with cooler gadgets.
tmlDan
Member
Not meeting expectations doesn't equate to financial failure, they just have lofty goals albeit still making profits.
two different things.
And No, they won't sell them, that would make little sense when MS is paying them potentially big money to develop their game now that they failed to do so internally.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That Crystal Dynamics announcement thread sure does read different now
Some absolute bangers in there.
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Tiago Rodrigues
Member
They basically gave up on all the talent they had acquired to give this project to the studio that turned Lara Croft into Uncharted-lite and did The Avengers game...okay.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
It was never the plan to develop the game internally.
tmlDan
Member
They say that now, initially that wasn't what they communicated publicly.
Javthusiast
Banned
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Papacheeks
Banned
I love all the cheerleaders and xbox fans are giving LOL emoji's at us sane people literally having a conversation about the state of Microsoft's management on software.
DarkMage619
I see you being a troll like always.
Thanks for adding to my ignore list.
DarkMage619
I see you being a troll like always.Thanks for adding to my ignore list.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This really makes me nervous about Microsoft's long term ambitions with so many more studios under their wing. What does it mean that their "AAAA" studio flamed out this fast?
www.gamesradar.com
Xbox’s new ‘AAAA’ studio rumoured to be resurrecting Perfect Dark
Microsoft’s ‘The Initiative’ is reportedly working on a third person Perfect Dark title.
www.gamesradar.com
StealthGoblin
Banned
That’s not what was communicated at the start. At the start this was going to be a AAAA jewel in the crown studio made to eventually compete with Naughty Dog and Santa Monica. They did want to ramp up to hundreds as the initial hires were intended to be the first of many. CD were never in the original plan.
Other support studios were as that is par for the course, but this wasn’t ever meant to be a Mistwalker situation with everyone there doing concept work or ideas work.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
If it ends up being third person, then it's honestly a win for me. They have plenty of first person games already. And if they want to actually make her into a spy, first person stealth sucks.This really makes me nervous about Microsoft's long term ambitions with so many more studios under their wing. What does it mean that their "AAAA" studio flamed out this fast?
Xbox’s new ‘AAAA’ studio rumoured to be resurrecting Perfect Dark
Microsoft’s ‘The Initiative’ is reportedly working on a third person Perfect Dark title.
remember_spinal
Banned
So this pretty much confirms The Initiative is dead. It just didn’t work like they thought it would.
That should be the real story. There are still the usual crowd ignoring the bigger story and pretending everything is fine though.
That should be the real story. There are still the usual crowd ignoring the bigger story and pretending everything is fine though.
Klayzer
Member
Where have you been? That's the die hard Microsoft stan's stock response to any critical conversation about Xbox. They all use the same playbook. Fake laughter, followed by a heavy dose of mod crying for bans.I love all the cheerleaders and xbox fans are giving LOL emoji's at us sane people literally having a conversation about the state of Microsoft's management on software.
Thanks for adding to my ignore list.
For supposed tough guys, they're super sensitive to any kind of critical discussion, if its Microsoft related.
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Papacheeks
Banned
I mean this same type of conversation happened for Liverpool, and Gureilla Cambridge? Difference being those studios literally got shut down after their said games came to market. Same with Manchester which I believe they had a game project and sony straight up closed them down. That was actually recent too.
Some people moved down to London Studio, but a lot of people were left without a studio. It sucks, but not everything works. I think the difference is that project was not made public and not many people even knew outside of press who manchester studio were and what they were even doing.
Microsoft in 2018 had their whole conference revolving around this new start of a new direction for them and future game projects going forward. It was them showing their investment in studios with them buying Ninja Theory, Compulsion, Double Fine, and showed off their brand new studio The Initiative. ANd the way they propped that studio up and talked about it was similar to how they talk about 343/Coalition being their big pillar studios making their Pillar IP's.
Not like this was a experimental studio like Media Molecule or a studio making something small and scrappy like Ninja Theory was doing. The money spent on talent was substantial. SO the aspirations and the fact they announced these guys were going to work on Perfect Dark before they even had everyone moved and working in the fucking studio.
I mean it was a exciting announcement. I mean it was like "hey, we hear you, here's a new studio that is literally built for big games, and our first game is Perfect Dark". How do you not get excited as a xbox fan or even a old-school RARE fan?
I was like OH SHIT!!! JOANNA!!
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
If the game is good, i don't really care who made it
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Proof?
Bernd Lauert
Banned
60ish people all the time, while barely looking for new hires. This shows that they never really wanted to build the games themselves.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
How can this happen at a company like Microsoft? They are "THE" software company of the world with DX12 and great engineers.
Leyasu
Banned
Probably the fact that they had hardly enough people to make people to make a mobile game.
To be honest, seeing every new person that joined always made me think "too many chiefs not enough Indians" with this studio. It was obvious that they were going to need support. Not that I am agreeing with the person you quoted or pretending that I knew the plans.
SO how many have left and how many remain?
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
You know it really feels like they have lost...
The Initiative
The Initiative
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akaFullmetal
Member
I just saw on Spawn wave, half of the company has left apparently in the last year? If that is true then of course it makes sense why crystal dynamic needs to step in.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Never mind the usual grind of volatile employee turnover at gaming companies.
I think a more relevant question is how many gamers actually care about this franchise? Perfect Dark 64 and Zero didn't even sell that many copies. So the draw isn't even big to begin with.
At some point this game will probably release, have a bunch of forum gamers talking about it and then become a Psychonauts or Abes Odyssey and hardly any sales.
I think a more relevant question is how many gamers actually care about this franchise? Perfect Dark 64 and Zero didn't even sell that many copies. So the draw isn't even big to begin with.
At some point this game will probably release, have a bunch of forum gamers talking about it and then become a Psychonauts or Abes Odyssey and hardly any sales.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
'The Initiative' seems it was more about poaching and extracting from the competition's talent, rather than building up an actual studio.
Half of that said talent seemed to have left and either returned to where they came from, or moved on to other new adventures.
EEE
Half of that said talent seemed to have left and either returned to where they came from, or moved on to other new adventures.
EEE
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Honestly this game should be deus ex meets perfect dark. First person mostly but third person in cover etc. And give a wide world of exploration options etc. Theres your game
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Aside from game companies buying other game companies to add their employee pool, how often does an existing game maker suddenly just say "Hey, we're going to make a new team based on hiring all new people".
That's what The Initiative sounds like. Traditional companies can expand too to big teams, but what happenes they have a bunch of internal people form it and then hire more people. Kind of the like marketing department where a company has a tons of new brands or e-com became a hot new kind of store to sell to. YOu got key internal people to mould it, then hire more people to fill the roles. You dont just add on a new department from scratch with 100% new people and just add the new department of 50 people to the organizational tree.
Then again, what do I know about game companies work. lol. But considering how wacky internal culture is and turnover, it's like the wild west like always.
en.wikipedia.org
That's what The Initiative sounds like. Traditional companies can expand too to big teams, but what happenes they have a bunch of internal people form it and then hire more people. Kind of the like marketing department where a company has a tons of new brands or e-com became a hot new kind of store to sell to. YOu got key internal people to mould it, then hire more people to fill the roles. You dont just add on a new department from scratch with 100% new people and just add the new department of 50 people to the organizational tree.
Then again, what do I know about game companies work. lol. But considering how wacky internal culture is and turnover, it's like the wild west like always.
The Initiative (company) - Wikipedia
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The Alien
Banned
New studio developing a new game during Covid. Trying new hybrid work model of development. They have some deva and key people in key roles but even brought in a studio (CD) to pull heavy duty (as planned).
I dunno. I'm in a wait and see mode with the game. Maybe the guy left because he was so awesome he got poached for a better paying job. Maybe he sucked and they kicked him out. Maybe he hated e rrything about The Initiative. Who knows.
I'll wait and see what the game looks/plays like.
I dunno. I'm in a wait and see mode with the game. Maybe the guy left because he was so awesome he got poached for a better paying job. Maybe he sucked and they kicked him out. Maybe he hated e rrything about The Initiative. Who knows.
I'll wait and see what the game looks/plays like.
Klayzer
Member
I know turnover is a regular occurrence in the industry, but that list of Iniative employees leaving rather quickly is shocking to me.
I don't want to go conspiracy theory, but its looks like a bunch of ex-Sony devs employees took a pile of money from Microsoft, and then bailed back to ND and the like.
I don't want to go conspiracy theory, but its looks like a bunch of ex-Sony devs employees took a pile of money from Microsoft, and then bailed back to ND and the like.
Banjo64
cumsessed
True.
But games like Ico and Okami only sold 500k apiece. I’d still be more hyped for Ico 2 or Okami 2 over 20m+ sellers like FIFA and CoD.
The big 3 have a duty to put out more niche games that appeal to the hardcore over the mass market IMO.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
But The Initiative doesn't have indie ambitions, and it's not the reason for which they were formed. They are a creative fireteam that comes up with a game idea, a vision, and then gets a partner to execute on it. I certainly wouldn't want Microsoft taking any of their other internal studios off existing projects to work on The Initiatives right now, so they went and got a top tier external partner in Crystal Dynamics who just so happens to be the best reboot developer in the business right now.
Microsoft did nothing wrong here. They brought talent together, and then gave that talent the freedom to build their team and decide what they want to work on. But amidst a global pandemic, a very competitive gaming landscape, and cinematic AAA ambitions they simply don't have a large enough team to actually build the game. So you're going to want a partner. Many roles that The Initiative in this early stage didn't have filled, Crystal Dynamics fixes all that.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'll take anything designed from Fumito Ueda!
Banjo64
cumsessed
You’re contradicting yourself with these 2 paragraphs.
I may have read it wrong, but when the studio was first announced I thought it was a standard studio (which would obviously need to expand rapidly).
All of this ‘they are just a team that has an idea but need help to execute’ sounds completely reactive IMO and is revisionism. Crystal Dynamics doing the heavy lifting and having their own leads just makes The Initiative redundant in this project.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
He's pretty obviously a fanboy
Klayzer
Member
That may be true now, but that certainly wasn't the sentiment when the studio opened. Nobody forgets about this "we want to make AAAA games" rhetoric.
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