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[ryzen1]

I hope there are some creative fps drops.
What a clown this guy is

I would tell you, I didn't buy this high end TV:

To play at a measly 1440p in 2023. Drop that damn framerate.

I'm not able to play any 30Fps games on my LG OLED. It feels super bad.
I prefer 1440 with 60fps..even 40fps is okayish. But 30 is just dog shit

 

[Majukun]

between this and the "25 years in the making" they are not holding back with the bullshit

 

[Thabass]

Me, buying this on PC: What does this have to do with me?

 

[Knightime_X]

1440p doesn't look amazing on a 65".

Looks amazing on my 75" Samsung QN95A
I think if the TV and device don't support that resolution it defaults to 1080p and upscales it to native which will look terrible.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Me, buying this on PC: What does this have to do with me?

You are getting a creatively compromised version that doesn't lock at 30 FPS. /s

 

[Team Andromeda]

Most Games have options (Fidelity & Performance). Same as GTA 5 On Current Gen.

Hoping same thing on Starfield (Giving us option).

LOL, you really think GTA6 on the current gen will have a 60 FPS option?

 

[Dunnas]

You ever hear of fidelity and performance modes?

NO EXCUSES not to have something that will future proof the game for 60 fps when the mid gen refreshes and ps6 come out

There should be a mode that has unlocked fps at least

Yes, the future release of the PS6 is definitely something they should be thinking about for an xbox first party game.

It is an xbox first party game, and what will likely be their biggest title. They will patch it immediately for any mid gen refresh or next gen console.

 

[Dunnas]

If its a creative choice, shouldn't it be locked to 30 FPS on PC as well?

30 fps wasn't the creative choice. Are you guys all seriously that dense, or do you just pretend to not understand anything to be trolls?. 30 fps is the result of the creative choices, given the fixed hardware in the consoles.

 

[Tomeru]

Tbh they were always inept as developers. All the featured bugs and robotic animations and, I don't know what they called it, but even for npcs they were a disgrace. Their games are usually being held together with duct tape and the likes.

The only reason I'm hype af for starfield is sci fi. I hope the use stronger glue this time.

 

[rnlval]

Why did you make it 30 then? Just have it run at a cinematic 24 fps you fucking liar. In fact if I see this game run at anything higher than 30fps on pc I know you're even more of a fucking liar. If it was a creative decision then it better be capped at 30 on pc

For Xbox Series S / X hardware, it's a creative decision i.e. certain image quality goals that are rendered within the 33 ms.

For example
30 fps / 12 TFLOPS = 2.5 TFLOP FP32 per frame budget.
60 fps / 12 TFLOPS = 1.25 TFLOP FP32 per frame budget.

Rapid Pack Math can help with a lower precision penalty.

For a higher price, PC hardware can exceed Xbox Series X hardware capability.

 

[StereoVsn]

I hope there are some creative fps drops.
What a clown this guy is

I'm not able to play any 30Fps games on my LG OLED. It feels super bad.
I prefer 1440 with 60fps..even 40fps is okayish. But 30 is just dog shit

Yeah, OLED with 30fps doesn't feel great. Upscaling 60fps option as a choice would have been much better.

 

[Allandor]

Pretty sure what they meant is that they aimed for a graphic fidelity that would allow to operate at 30 fps. Targeting 60fps would have likely meant a downgrade in graphics. Obviously, this will not affect PC.

At least, that was how I interrupted it.

Maybe not really a downgrade in graphics but in more simulating departments. Yes, the resolution has to go down, but even the series s handles the game. So it is more a creative choice where the CPU limits.
But I still hope they add a checkbox to deactivate the frame limit, just to be future save for the next generation.

 

[Ar¢tos]

If they get away with this, then their next game will be 15fps with vomit inducing screen tear and they'll say it is a creative choice, and will even call the screen tear a feature.

The lack of a 60fps mode (not 4k,but lower dynamic res) just tells me they are having trouble optimizing the game but don't want to delay it.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I said in the other thread this game is using an updated version of the old Gamebryo engine that can run on a netbook. So poor that it's 30fps, will make combat outside especially awful as there will be dips below.

The lack of a 60fps mode (not 4k,but lower dynamic res) just tells me they are having trouble optimizing the game but don't want to delay it.

Yep, my thoughts too as reliable insider here said it was in a technical mess not too long ago.

 

[Negotiator101]

Imagine being such a naive person to think that "there's very little going on under the hood" in Horizon and using that as an excuse for starfield not having 60 FPS mode on consoles. You either have no idea what you're talking about or never played it. The machines alone are incredibly complex and they have over 40 in the vanilla game - I haven't played Burning Shores yet btw so I have no idea how many are new.

What's this got to do with anything?

If they get away with this, then their next game will be 15fps with vomit inducing screen tear and they'll say it is a creative choice, and will even call the screen tear a feature.

The lack of a 60fps mode (not 4k,but lower dynamic res) just tells me they are having trouble optimizing the game but don't want to delay it.

Listen, over the next years game will start to target 30fps on console, GTA 6 will be 30fps. With ambitious games comes a performance tradeoff, Starfield is incredibly ambitious.

 

[Mobilemofo]

I'm expecting a bug fest. It's Bethesda after all.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I hope it runs at 60 fps pretty easily on PC and allows us to modify.

I imagine they will release a 60fps patch in a year or so with a considerable cut back to foliage, pop in etc at say 1440p.

I'm all for them getting it out the door with a solid version now, no need to delay it further, it looks incredible and I want it.

 

[H4ze]

Reading this thread makes my eyes bleed.. ofc every of you hobby coders know it better than they do. Jesus, why not 4k/120 ms if we are at it? People need to relax, what do you think your getting with a 500€ device?

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Pretty sure what they meant is that they aimed for a graphic fidelity that would allow to operate at 30 fps. Targeting 60fps would have likely meant a downgrade in graphics. Obviously, this will not affect PC.

At least, that was how I interrupted it.

Not just a downgrade in graphics but likely a cut to gameplay systems and mechanics. I would like 60fps as much as the next person, but not at the expense of what makes Starfield the game it looks to be.

 

[Gaelyon]

Starfield could have a rock stable 240 FPS. It'll just need for that to be at 640p with no shaders... Of course it's a creative decision within the technical limitations of consoles.

 

[darrylgorn]

Wake me up when we see 60 fps gameplay on PC

 

[Regginator]

Reading this thread makes my eyes bleed.. ofc every of you hobby coders know it better than they do. Jesus, why not 4k/120 ms if we are at it? People need to relax, what do you think your getting with a 500€ device?

I haven't read all 12 pages but I'm fairly certain it's the "creative choice, not hardware issue" that rubs people wrong. Saying that is just objectively false and quite frankly insulting to your audience. Just say they had to make compromises considering the $500 hardware and that they prioritise fidelity rather (which is literally what Todd Howard said) than 60fps. Unfortunate, but perfectly understandable.

 

[KungFucius]

30 fps EXCLUSIVE on Xbox X/S!!!
Take that PC! shove that uncreative FPS on your system ass.

C'mon, that is not what is implied here. They pushed the graphics as far as they could trading FPS for image quality.

That's the dumbest shit I've heard in a long time. Nobody intentionally makes an FPS 30fps if they could make it 60. Bethesda's engine is just garbage, the game is not technically impressive at all. Stop lying, Phil.

Huh? Consoles have been making these trades for forever. They chose graphics over performance. You can't just make 60FPs that is 2x the performance of 30FPs, you need to trade something off in optimization.

This could be a business and creative decision. They want the images to look as good as possible to get people to buy an Xbox because they think that is more effective marketing than 60FPS and they worked so hard on this for the better part of a decade that they couldn't bare paring down the visuals. So what?

 

[Rykan]

I would tell you, I didn't buy this high end TV:



To play at a measly 1440p in 2023. Drop that damn framerate.

LOL you purchased an OLED TV to play games at 30 FPS? Now that's hilarious.

 

[RoadHazard]

C'mon, that is not what is implied here. They pushed the graphics as far as they could trading FPS for image quality.

Huh? Consoles have been making these trades for forever. They chose graphics over performance. You can't just make 60FPs that is 2x the performance of 30FPs, you need to trade something off in optimization.

This could be a business and creative decision. They want the images to look as good as possible to get people to buy an Xbox because they think that is more effective marketing than 60FPS and they worked so hard on this for the better part of a decade that they couldn't bare paring down the visuals. So what?

Yes, but the reason for that, IMO, isn't that the XSX couldn't handle a game like this at 60 but that it can't handle Bethesda's engine at 60. With a better engine it could.

 

[BrutalTruth_]

LOL you purchased an OLED TV to play games at 30 FPS? Now that's hilarious.

I bought a high end OLED in 2018 and have played many great games in 30 fps, including TLOU2

What are you babbling on about?

 

[Ar¢tos]

What's this got to do with anything?

Listen, over the next years game will start to target 30fps on console, GTA 6 will be 30fps. With ambitious games comes a performance tradeoff, Starfield is incredibly ambitious.

What ambition? He says it's a creative choice not related to hardware limitations, so it means it's not ambitious enough.
Or is Phil Spencer lying? He would never do that, would he?

 

[Warablo]

They couldn't even get Redfall at 60 fps at launch. So I doubt they could get Starfield to it.

Hopefully the PC version has at least have 60/120 fps options.

 

[jonnyp]

Phil really does say some stupid shit sometimes.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Reading this thread makes my eyes bleed.. ofc every of you hobby coders know it better than they do. Jesus, why not 4k/120 ms if we are at it? People need to relax, what do you think your getting with a 500€ device?

The features that Microsoft advertised when they were selling console, like 60 FPS standard.

 

[Ar¢tos]

The features that Microsoft advertised when they were selling console, like 60 FPS standard.

But you get 60 fps standard* **!

*Post release patches might be required, no time-frame for said patches, please take a seat and wait.
** Patches might come from unofficial sources, install at your own risk.

 

[Bernardougf]

If the intention was to avoid having a mode with massive cut-backs to reach 60, then yes of course it's a creative choice.


30 FPS:

60 FPS:

Yeah .. nothing more fun in a game than pausing and counting shruberries ... the knights who say Ni would be so proud

 

[Helghan]

The features that Microsoft advertised when they were selling console, like 60 FPS standard.

So you prefer that Bethesda (the developer), wouldn't create the game according to their own vision, but remove stuff just to get to 60fps because that's the standard for most games on XSX?

 

[Bernardougf]

Do what with it ?

Requiem or Starfield aren't cross-gen.

Everything that has to run on a series S is practically crossgen...

And I would take a bet that this is the real problem ... nothing to do with "creative choices"

 

[Bernardougf]

So you prefer that Bethesda (the developer), wouldn't create the game according to their own vision, but remove stuff just to get to 60fps because that's the standard for most games on XSX?

Bethesda is MS first party.. their PR said that 60 fps was the standard "from now on" ... is just one more case of MS big mouth biting then in their on ass as usual

 

[OmegaSupreme]

adamsapple putting in the overtime in this thread.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I don't understand why they don't offer the possibility of lower resolution (upscaled) with higher FPS

Because it's not bound by the GPU.

 

[Bernardougf]

Watch the PC version have low, medium and high settings. There is literally no excuse why they can't get this running at 60 fps.

And then whatch the vast majority of pc players give fuck all to their "creative vision" and crack assets down to play at the best fps possible

 

[Ar¢tos]

So you prefer that Bethesda (the developer), wouldn't create the game according to their own vision, but remove stuff just to get to 60fps because that's the standard for most games on XSX?

Remove stuff? I thought there is no hardware limitation to get it to 60fps, according to Phil Spencer...

 

[nani17]

 

[OmegaSupreme]

 

[Helghan]

Bethesda is MS first party.. their PR said that 60 fps was the standard "from now on" ... is just one more case of MS big mouth biting then in their on ass as usual

OK, so you want that Microsoft to say to Bethesda, compromise your vision and give us 60fps.

Remove stuff? I thought there is no hardware limitation to get it to 60fps, according to Phil Spencer...

That's not what he said. He says there's render time per frame. That Bethesda decided to go deep in the frame, thus put more stuff in the frame. Which means that the processing power is used to get as much in the frame and you can still deliver at least 30fps.

Rewatch it, if you missed that part. Starts at 30s mark.

 

[Bernardougf]

Hey guys guess what game came out this year at a locked 30fps and I consider it one of the best games ever made, thats right Zelda TotK, so this being at 30fps doesn't bother me as I'll no doubt be playing on Xbox Series X anyway

For the ambition this has, I was super impressed with how well it looked to be running, of course its Bethedsa so who fucking knows with the end product (Fallout 4 was buggy as on Launch) but yea as long as its fun I don't care right now

People got used to play nintendo shitty ass hardware with assets from 15 years ago.. and learned to enjoy their games that whay ... xbox/playstation is about pushing things forward and 60 fps options (after the 4k push) was the big thing been pushed this gen (just check the xbox own pr and you will see) ... so this 30 fps crap is a step back IMO

 

[Kamina]

What happened to options?
Why not include 40fps 1440 and 60fps 1080 or some in between solution.

 

[Bernardougf]

OK, so you want that Microsoft to say to Bethesda, compromise your vision and give us 60fps.

That's not what he said. He says there's render time per frame. That Bethesda decided to go deep in the frame, thus put more stuff in the frame. Which means that the processing power is used to get as much in the frame and you can still deliver at least 30fps.

Rewatch it, if you missed that part. Starts at 30s mark.

Well so they should enforce their vision on PC and force the minimum assets they want players to change in the graphics menu to achieve better fps ... lets wait and see they do that since their vision is soooo important

 

[MikeM]

I would tell you, I didn't buy this high end TV:

To play at a measly 1440p in 2023. Drop that damn framerate.

I have a LG C1. 30fps on it looks like a juddery mess. Its gross and unacceptable.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Phil Spencer: Gamers deserve Starfield in 30fps

 

[Snake29]

If the intention was to avoid having a mode with massive cut-backs to reach 60, then yes of course it's a creative choice.


30 FPS:

60 FPS:

Only when it's a Xbox game. Otherwise..some of you Phil cult followers would say shit like "lazy devs, arrogant bla bla bla, "for the players", "they don't give you choices" or whatever the hell your trying to damage control for them".

Sorry i call it bullshit.

 

[Complistic]

It's a creative way to tank console sales.

 

[DevilHunterX0]

Just play it on the PC, with all the "hot coffee" mods. Problem solved.