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[DenchDeckard]

Possibly. But it doesn’t really help Xbox much, PC is a different platform with different customers, console gamers going from console to PC to get a better version is a tiny fraction of the full console userbase.
MS needs a powerful $500-600 Pro console.

So on vacation and traveling around a lot in the mountains so no cell service so wont be able to reply for a few days but it seems likely Playstation will have the pro market to themselves for a couple of years at least but sounds like Xbox will drop the next gen Xbox 2 well before PS drops the PS6

This is what I want. MS to wait 18 months or two years and drop like a 25 to 30 tf banger. Something with a clear jump over ps5 pro.

Then I can buy my ps5 pro and be happy until the xbox launches.

 

[onQ123]

It's a double-edged sword. And Xbox may be overestimating again how much mindshare they command.

• Xbox users may be pissed if Xbox abandons the Series X|S in just 6 years, and if games start releasing exclusively on the next Xbox 2.
• The new Xbox 2 buyers will be pissed if they only do cross-gen games to keep Xbox Series gamers happy.
• Media may not give Xbox 2 any reasonable coverage.
• 70% of the world, and 60% of the US, will not even care about the "next-gen console" because they are only interested in a PlayStation.
• When PS6 launches, it will be significantly more powerful than X2.

So at best, X2 will be looking at slightly higher sales for a period of 12-24 months (which are usually marred by production and supply issues anyway). During the 3rd or 4th year (2028 and 2029) when the consoles sales actually hit their peaks, like PS5 is doing now, Xbox 2 will be competing against PS6.

I just don't see this strategy working at all.

6 years is actually normal life span for consoles no one should be upset about a new console in 2026 .

Devs might be upset about resetting to a smaller user base but MS bought enough developers to at least have some games for the new console even if 3rd parties are not so happy about making games for the small user base.

 

[DenchDeckard]

6 years is actually normal life span for consoles no one should be upset about a new console in 2026 .

Devs might be upset about resetting to a smaller user base but MS bought enough developers to at least have some games for the new console even if 3rd parties are not so happy about making games for the small user base.

6 years is fine, they could drop the series s requirement and have the Series x as the baseline.

MS will have enough publishers to power the platform. Seems like a good idea and just make it a large jump over ps5 Pro.

Hyperthetically, if the ps5 Pro has the same cpu...which would be awful....it will just be like a ps4 pro scenario where its a gpu jump and nothing more really.

Xbox could come out with a box that is more next gen and that could work for them. Who knows.

 

[Team Andromeda]

6 years is actually normal life span for consoles no one should be upset about a new console in 2026 .

Devs might be upset about resetting to a smaller user base but MS bought enough developers to at least have some games for the new console even if 3rd parties are not so happy about making games for the small user base.

I miss the days of 5 or 6 years before you got the follow-up console.

Also, I bet despite what MS say they will have a backup plan, to cover the PS5 Pro. Not that I think we need Pro consoles yet, we're hardly getting current gen games that are pushing the consoles to breaking point.

 

[Heisenberg007]

6 years is actually normal life span for consoles no one should be upset about a new console in 2026 .

Devs might be upset about resetting to a smaller user base but MS bought enough developers to at least have some games for the new console even if 3rd parties are not so happy about making games for the small user base.

6 years isn't normal at all, and will be the smallest generation in recent times if true. Xbox One was also 7 years. Xbox 360 was 8 years.

It's especially worse considering the Xbox Series X|S generation did not really start until Redfall was released (and that one didn't even count). In all honestly, the generation will start with Starfield for Xbox users in Q3 2023. Every new first-party game was cross-gen before Redfall. So that'd be a 3 year generation at best.

Add to it the COVID downtime period and the console supply shortage. The 6 years will feel a lot like 3-4 years.

 

[VolticArchangel]

So on vacation and traveling around a lot in the mountains so no cell service so wont be able to reply for a few days but it seems likely Playstation will have the pro market to themselves for a couple of years at least but sounds like Xbox will drop the next gen Xbox 2 well before PS drops the PS6

Just what he felt was Xbox does not want to compete head to head anymore and wants that very 1-2 year window of having the shiny new toy on the market

But then again maybe the PS5 Pro did catch them off guard, I don't really have an answer as this just came through via a discord PM and not actual conversation and wont be able to catch up with them for awhile

Thanks for these updates, man.

This deserves it's own thread. Lol, WTF Microsoft?

 

[Banjo64]

So on vacation and traveling around a lot in the mountains so no cell service so wont be able to reply for a few days but it seems likely Playstation will have the pro market to themselves for a couple of years at least but sounds like Xbox will drop the next gen Xbox 2 well before PS drops the PS6

Going for that 360 effect.

Issue for Xbox is that PlayStation is now well and truly entrenched.

Are any devs going to prioritise the next Xbox when games don’t sell as well on the platform, and there’s a huge PlayStation user base sat there?

I say no.

The only way for Xbox to compete is by increasing the quality and consistency of their games.

 

[Bernardougf]

So on vacation and traveling around a lot in the mountains so no cell service so wont be able to reply for a few days but it seems likely Playstation will have the pro market to themselves for a couple of years at least but sounds like Xbox will drop the next gen Xbox 2 well before PS drops the PS6

As I said they would a couple months ago ... the xbox 360 strategy... going before.. stopping trying to go neck and neck with sony.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Software isn't even optimized for Series S yet.
PS5 and Series X are just spinning their wheels most of the time. They're capable of a lot more than what developers have given us.

A PS5 Pro would be pointless.

 

[jroc74]

The biggest issue with MS starting their next gen sooner is...how long will they take to discontinue their current consoles?

Will one get axed first or do they ax both at the same time? Because starting their next gen sooner means trying to move on from current hardware. If one gets axed before the other...I think it's gonna be a shit storm either way.

Interesting times ahead...they would basically be doing what Nintendo did with the Switch. Hell, I said they should have done that with the One X.

Starting 2 years sooner than expected just means Sony has the PS6 two years after that. Interesting strategy.

 

[Physiognomonics]

So on vacation and traveling around a lot in the mountains so no cell service so wont be able to reply for a few days but it seems likely Playstation will have the pro market to themselves for a couple of years at least but sounds like Xbox will drop the next gen Xbox 2 well before PS drops the PS6

Same thing they did with X1X. "Oh no Sony is releasing a Pro model! let's release a new Xbox just 2 years after! DF will be there to hype the shit out of it during that time and try to undermine Sony's new console by cherry picking, and all of that for free. Well it won't work but at least we tried, right?"

 

[DeepEnigma]

Your first two items aren't really much to be concerned about given Series X|S and PS5 owners bought in despite having had two years of cross-gen, the third is non-sense, and the fourth is self-evident fanboyism.

Your last dot point is worth talking about, however. If Microsoft is indeed skipping a Pro model in favour of a shorter overall console life cycle, then they're likely pushing for a continuous improvement-esque cycle, like a protracted smart phone. Their work with things like smart delivery and backwards compatibly should make those kinds of transitions seamless for us - the gamer - but also less impactful. However, the PS5 and the XSX have shown that the days of next-gen bringing immediate massive jumps are over - it now takes literally years for the hardware to be properly tapped - so there's potentially some intelligence to this approach. What benefit do you see of longer hardware cycles, like the PS5 -> PS6, versus more regular hardware releases like this approach? If a PS5 Pro is welcome, would an X2 not also be welcome if it plays every Xbox game currently available, only better, as well some exclusive X2 games further down the line? What are some of the positives you can see with this approach?

Yet the biggest trolling point on here was cross-gen talk, so now Xfans are willing to accept it for the X2? The S already giving devs annoyances and issues and it's supposed to once again boat anchor the X2?

Ironic.

 

[DenchDeckard]

If Microsoft are clever here they will launch next gen early but have a considerable amount of xbox titles ready to go with the system. It cant rely on gamepass and third party games.

If MS owns ABK by then, which I expect they will they should be able to start developing games to launch in 3 and a half to 4 years that take advantage of the system and with all their studios have a strong consistent first year of releases.

Seems like it makes sense. If Microsoft has the ability to roll this out and get all the eggs in line is another question all together.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

However, the PS5 and the XSX have shown that the days of next-gen bringing immediate massive jumps are over -

No, they haven't.

Return to this point when the devices aren't launching against a global pandemic.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yet the biggest trolling point on here was cross-gen talk, so now Xfans are willing to accept it for the X2? The S already giving devs annoyances and issues and it's supposed to once again boat anchor the X2?

Ironic.

Wait your saying xbox fans aren't open to cross gen games? Microsoft clearly said there would be cross gen games for a couple of years?

I don't think anyone expected Sony to deliver them on first party ip so long into the generation, that's all.

 

[Fredrik]

6 years is actually normal life span for consoles no one should be upset about a new console in 2026 .

Devs might be upset about resetting to a smaller user base but MS bought enough developers to at least have some games for the new console even if 3rd parties are not so happy about making games for the small user base.

To have games ready for a new console launch in 2026 they need to already have spent some time working on those games considering how long it takes to make AAA games.
And considering how few 1st party studios that has released games for Xbox Series it would mean they’re skipping the Series consoles.

Best case scenario we would get games made to run at Series that has been updated to the next console. No proper next gen games. Bad start.

Worst case scenario the 1st party devs keep on working on their Series projects and release their games on Series in 2024-2025 and then have nothing for next gen until 2030.

 

[ZehDon]

No, they haven't.

Xbox and PlayStation's output and the fact that people are still disagreeing about whether next-gen has really started disagree with you. If you expect the PS6 to produce the jump we didn't see this gen, you're grasping for excuses.

Yet the biggest trolling point on here was cross-gen talk, so now Xfans are willing to accept it for the X2? The S already giving devs annoyances and issues and it's supposed to once again boat anchor the X2?

Ironic.

Not sure I follow. Microsoft outlined their original vision of not leaving Xbone users behind before the Series consoles launched. It was Sony who stirred up the hive with their "we believe in generations" statements before quietly revealing nearly every major title on their slate was cross-gen - even the "next gen" showcases. We're coming up on three years and we're still seeing cross-gen titles. Cross-gen is clearly just the reality of console development in a market where there are few AAA studios that can even deliver "next-gen" and game budgets are now exceeding USD$200 regularly. The idea that, somehow, any of that would disappear for X2/PS6 is simply not realistic. As for the "Series S anchor", you're missing the forest for the trees: if a developer targets "last gen", the X2 would likely just run it via backwards compatibility - it can't be an achor for the X2 unless you expect the XSX|S to run all natively compiled X2 titles.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Xbox and PlayStation's output and the fact that people are still disagreeing about whether next-gen has really started disagree with you. If you expect the PS6 to produce the jump we didn't see this gen, you're grasping for excuses.

We were in a global pandemic → affected game development. Excuse? What exactly am I trying to excuse? This doesn't require a genius.

- We have far better machines
- Graphics and technology are nowhere close to a ceiling

Pretty simple.

 

[twilo99]

I suppose it makes sense from a Xbox point of view. if your really that bothered about framerates, graphical settings and resolution you can just get whatever PC you can want/afford.

They should just start selling Xbox branded PC builds that come with a year or two of gamepass

 

[RoadHazard]

This is what I want. MS to wait 18 months or two years and drop like a 25 to 30 tf banger. Something with a clear jump over ps5 pro.

Then I can buy my ps5 pro and be happy until the xbox launches.

But then when Sony releases the PS6 2 years later MS will be far behind again for a few years. I think neither of them want to be in that position.

 

[Horseganador]

That of releasing a new generation of Xbox in 2026 will be a terrible idea, you would have crossgen games shared with series S and X and on top of that PS6 could come out a year later with much more hype and power.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

That means the series consoles have 2 years left because they'd have to market a new generation at least a year before launch...nah I don't see it but if they do then this is by far the worst xbox generation in history because they'll have to cut support in order to make a meaningful jump in software performance. If true then Microsoft was caught off guard by the pro I guess the calculation was if they created a mid-gen refresh the earliest it'll come is 2025-2026 and they'd still be anchored by the series s so why not just start a new generation especially if AMD have designs for a proper generational upgrade. I'd much rather see them duke it out with a mid-gen refresh launched at the same time they talk about wanting competition but they really don't wanna compete oh well

 

[Bry0]

So on vacation and traveling around a lot in the mountains so no cell service so wont be able to reply for a few days but it seems likely Playstation will have the pro market to themselves for a couple of years at least but sounds like Xbox will drop the next gen Xbox 2 well before PS drops the PS6

This makes sense considering the situation they (Xbox) are in now. The clear cut generational model seems to be shifting to something more akin to laptops/phones etc anyway. Yes that applies to Sony hardware too.
The days of drastically different architectures are gone. It’s like buying a specialized pc with upgrades every 3-4 years at this point. Games will be built to be scaleable. I think the 7 year generation thinking is a little outdated.

They really need to ditch the “Series S” model. Don’t set the baseline that low. Just have 1 power level every 3-4 years.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Whatever happens, my next purchase will be the Switch successor. I don't care about Pro consoles, I hope this trend die.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Whatever happens, my next purchase will be the Switch successor. I don't care about Pro consoles, I hope this trend die.

Why? It hurts you in no way whatsoever.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Why? It hurts you in no way whatsoever.

It does, I don't like to upgrade my console in 3 years intervals, also I like to have the best possible version of the platform I'm in.
They barely even explored what those systems are capable, and they already want to sell me an upgrade, I was able to secure my unit just this year thanks to availability issues and scalping.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It does, I don't like to upgrade my console in 3 years intervals, also I like to have the best possible version of the platform I'm in.
They barely even explored what those systems are capable, and they already want to sell me an upgrade, I was able to secure my unit just this year thanks to availability issues and scalping.

FOMO is a you problem.

 

[DenchDeckard]

But then when Sony releases the PS6 2 years later MS will be far behind again for a few years. I think neither of them want to be in that position.

It might be exactly what MS needs. Separate from power. Deliver games. Have two years head start of delivering something beastly over the ps5 Pro and cement the box as a great place to play xbox games for those that don't want pc.

It could work for them. Can't be any worse than what's happening now.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

It does, I don't like to upgrade my console in 3 years intervals, also I like to have the best possible version of the platform I'm in.
They barely even explored what those systems are capable, and they already want to sell me an upgrade, I was able to secure my unit just this year thanks to availability issues and scalping.

No one is forcing you to upgrade.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

FOMO is a you problem.

Yeah, it is my problem, but I don't think I'm alone in this. Last time Sony did that I sold my OG PS4 and bought a new GPU, I'm not saying I'll do the same this time around, PC gaming is a mess currently, but I feel that my investment has cut short. I'll probably upgrade or just getting a Series X assuming Microsoft won't follow suit.

 

[Vox Machina]

Yet the biggest trolling point on here was cross-gen talk, so now Xfans are willing to accept it for the X2? The S already giving devs annoyances and issues and it's supposed to once again boat anchor the X2?

Ironic.

People just need to accept that consoles are just TV-centric PCs at this point. We're going to see faster iteration cycles with longer periods of software support between those cycles in order to maximize software sales. Games just cost way too much to make to make them exclusive to one hardware spec for any long period of time.

 

[RoadHazard]

It might be exactly what MS needs. Separate from power. Deliver games. Have two years head start of delivering something beastly over the ps5 Pro and cement the box as a great place to play xbox games for those that don't want pc.

It could work for them. Can't be any worse than what's happening now.

Hmm yeah, but they already had an almost 50% more powerful console for several years with the XB1X (6 vs 4.2 TF), and it didn't exactly do wonders for them. I know people liked what they did there, and it was a cool box, but I just don't think they can win on power alone.

 

[RoadHazard]

It does, I don't like to upgrade my console in 3 years intervals, also I like to have the best possible version of the platform I'm in.
They barely even explored what those systems are capable, and they already want to sell me an upgrade, I was able to secure my unit just this year thanks to availability issues and scalping.

What were you able to secure just this year? A PS5? That's a you problem in that case. You could have easily gotten one two years ago. Not just by walking into a store and picking one up, but with a little effort. Anyone who REALLY wants one has had it for a long time, unless you're in some country that just doesn't get any shipments. I'm in Sweden, and we get a very small share of the total shipments, but I got one in early 2021 no problem.

 

[Vox Machina]

They should just start selling Xbox branded PC builds that come with a year or two of gamepass

Wouldn't rule it out. Microsoft does have a PC hardware team (Surface) that builds some sick PCs in different form factors. But honestly this seems like something they'd leave to their existing partners. I do think they're probably working on prototyping an Xbox branded PC handheld though.

 

[Stafford]

I saw this tweet, I honestly have no idea wtf this all means. Apparently it's gonna be a "beast" if this is all true?



Assuming it is all true, you'd think MS can't afford to sit it out until 2028 with only the XSX and S. I sure as fuck hope not.

 

[Paulxo87]

once sony shows off ghost 2 running off a ps5 pro there isn't much microsoft will be able to respond with. But I think the real shocker will be both the ps5 pro and GTA6 launching next fall with the PS5 pro supporting higher frame rates etc that the XSX won't be able to compete with. It's all a hunch on my end But I believe Sony has such a plan in place and it would be completely devastating to them.

 

[Heisenberg007]

People just need to accept that consoles are just TV-centric PCs at this point. We're going to see faster iteration cycles with longer periods of software support between those cycles in order to maximize software sales. Games just cost way too much to make to make them exclusive to one hardware spec for any long period of time.

No we won't. There is literally 0 evidence of that ever happening.

Also, games are taking longer than ever, with 5-6 years of development. If there are faster iterations, it means several studios will be just straight-up skipping generations.

Console generations will not become shorter mainly because of how long it now takes to develop games.

 

[solidus12]

Hardcore Xbox fans have had a weird period:

1. Massive Delta favouring Xbox
2. PS5 Unstable Clocks
3. Devs struggling on PS5
4. Series S outperforming PS5
5. Launch PS5s overheating
6. Xbox GDK not mature
7. Wait for the Tools
8. Sony Parity clauses
9. Wait for next gen only games
10. 30 fps is a design choice
11. Series S is not a bottleneck
12. PS5 SSD I/O is bs.
13. Xbox starts a new generation in 2026

 

[DenchDeckard]

Hmm yeah, but they already had an almost 50% more powerful console for several years with the XB1X (6 vs 4.2 TF), and it didn't exactly do wonders for them. I know people liked what they did there, and it was a cool box, but I just don't think they can win on power alone.

They just need games. Power alone isn't going to do anything. They will own so many studios so they have no excuse but to get great games out. If they get truly amazing games out...power won't matter at all.

I think that's their best option. Get the games ready for a new generation in 3 to 4 years and ride out PC and the current consoles until then.

If Sony delivers on the ps5 Pro, and that's all down to the cpu I think. If they can't deliver on that front it will just be a resolution boost. It needs to almost be like a next gen console but in 2024 I think.

I'm day one no matter what because I want wolverine etc to run the best.

 

[Stafford]

The reality, sadly is that the S sold way more than the X did. Will that change with Starfield? Remains to be seen. So for me as someone that DOES care about powerful console hardware it is going to suck big time if Phil wasn't bluffing and they indeed sit it out until 2028 at the latest. For me as a customer I find that a mistake. Just make one, I'll trade in or sell my X and get the new one, sigh.

From their perspective, unfortunately, I guess it makes sense. There is no need for a mid gen refresh, more power didn't really make much of a difference. Next gen though, remains to be seen. Will people sooner buy the better Xbox system (although I hope next gen it's just one system) because they knew they get the Bethesda games and (likely) ABK games as well along with the other first party games? If yes, they can just bring one system and done.

Whatever happens, it's kind of a bad look though. Phil after all did say they would never lose on price and power again. Some believe he meant solely a new gen of consoles with that, but I understood it as overall.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

PS5 Slim & PS5 Pro vs Series S & Series X would make things kind of awkward don't you think?

As of now Series X haven't really taken off so it wouldn't have much of a head start over PS5 Pro as far as userbase go .
Right now DF have PS5 vs Series X in faceoffs when there is only around 1/3 people who actually have Xbox Series X vs PS5 at the most.

I’m confused by your question. What does the % of the install base the consoles have to do with being matched against one another in the DF videos? They’re direct competitors, very similar in specs, and they’re comparing performance. Not sales.

I don’t understand what point it is you’re trying to make.

 

[mitch1971]

Series X
Series Why
Series Zzzzz

 

[Matsuchezz]

I Like PS games I would buy a PS5 PRO if it enhances the experience. I don't care what MS releases either a more powerful system or as powerful as the Pro. They suck at making great games.

 

[onQ123]

I’m confused by your question. What does the % of the install base the consoles have to do with being matched against one another in the DF videos? They’re direct competitors, very similar in specs, and they’re comparing performance. Not sales.

I don’t understand what point it is you’re trying to make.

Digital Foundry compare PS5 & Xbox Series X but in reality most people will be playing the game on Xbox Series S while there is less than 1/4 playing the games on Series X vs PS5 .

Fast forward PS5 Pro release & say it sells 10 million while Series X is around 15 million it should be fair to compare them as the premium consoles .

 

[damidu]

well its “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” time. they were supposed to sandwich ps5 with their moronic 2-tier release, nothing even remotely close to that happened.
now they will see what a real sandwich looks like.

they’ll either swallow the pill and go on.
or come up with a third model, which will make for a total shit show of a generation for them.
with a performance delta of 1 to 6 between their 3 confusingly named consoles.
not to mention, they can’t even sell series x

oh and no they will not start “next gen” a year early, only to be obliterated again by a ps6 next year . lol

 

[Neo_game]

This is what I want. MS to wait 18 months or two years and drop like a 25 to 30 tf banger. Something with a clear jump over ps5 pro.

Then I can buy my ps5 pro and be happy until the xbox launches.

If Microsoft releases a Pro console after 2025 then it is DOA.

According to FTC data Microsoft is expecting next gen console in 2028. I will not be surprised if PS6 releases in 2027.

 

[jroc74]

Hardcore Xbox fans have had a weird period:

1. Massive Delta favouring Xbox
2. PS5 Unstable Clocks
3. Devs struggling on PS5
4. Series S outperforming PS5
5. Launch PS5s overheating
6. Xbox GDK not mature
7. Wait for the Tools
8. Sony Parity clauses
9. Wait for next gen only games
10. 30 fps is a design choice
11. Series S is not a bottleneck
12. PS5 SSD I/O is bs.
13. Xbox starts a new generation in 2026

Its almost like The Twelve Days of Christmas.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

This is what I want. MS to wait 18 months or two years and drop like a 25 to 30 tf banger. Something with a clear jump over ps5 pro.

Then I can buy my ps5 pro and be happy until the xbox launches.

I actually like the idea as well and get a new toy every couple of years

 

[mckmas8808]

So on vacation and traveling around a lot in the mountains so no cell service so wont be able to reply for a few days but it seems likely Playstation will have the pro market to themselves for a couple of years at least but sounds like Xbox will drop the next gen Xbox 2 well before PS drops the PS6

Man STOP playin! This kinda pisses me off. Why MS stay messing stuff up?

 

[mckmas8808]

I doubt that strategy would work, in the 360 days sure, but cross gen period is getting longer and longer so the impact of a shiny next gen console isn’t as bright.

The X360 also launched at $399, whereas the PS3 launched at $599!!! HUGE difference.