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[Northeastmonk]

Crazy how this is the week FF7 Rebirth launches and this game caused a big boom in gaming sales many years ago. Now it exists as a multi part,100+ million a piece project in a market that’s consistently downsizing in order to operate.

Key people won’t lose their big pay checks, but everyone else will have to struggle to find a new job. It makes the gaming industry look like a nightmare to work in. You have no real job security and all these studios are in areas where the cost of living is incredibly high.

I think Sony got a little trigger happy buying all these studios and expecting them to pay rent while their stuff cooks for years on end.

 

[Audiophile]

Unless these are categorically dead weight positions/heads and are a small part of an overall plan with outsized efficiency gains elsewhere, then the layoff/contraction approach is a way to increase shareholder profit in the short-term without regard to the future. If things are inefficient then capable heads should be redistributed or adapted to further increase output, quality and value in the long-term across the brand.

Sony are already struggling to provide a decent, steady output for their flagship console. They should be investing in their future, not chasing a short-term dime.

If you're barely able to maintain putting out major titles even once in a given gen then you sure as hell better have improvements elsewhere that will more than offset this.

Otherwise be prepared for even worse output and more dilution of the ecosystem.

 

[StueyDuck]

Some games are selling well. But yes the industry is down despite the most recent game successes.

This article explains what's happening.

The video game industry is in trouble. Here's why.

Video games have hit a rough patch: Sales are down, usage is down, and layoffs are spiking. There isn't an obvious solution showing up anytime soon.

www.businessinsider.com

Look I respect the research. But we can't talk about all of gaming and only use the US and the number of dollars spent.

There's so many different factors there that could throw those numbers in different directions. If a PS6 and nextbox and switch 2 all released next year plus the addition with gta6 alone you'll see that spending would go up again.

 

[GHG]

Is that right?

London most expensive place in the world for a company to employ staff

London has been named the world’s most expensive city to accommodate an employee for the third year in a row

bmmagazine.co.uk

It's been the situation for a long time now. There are companies where I live (Dubai) who prefer to employ people here to cover European territories even though they have head offices in the UK.

The situation gets even worse if you're an international business looking to send people to the UK to work:

UK is the Most Expensive Country in the World to Relocate Employees

www.eca-international.com

 

[crackajack]

I guess worse off are the people that have to search now for a job, so us gamers just have to extend our patience, but with already delayed or just taking forever projects from pretty much everyone, this will further delay everything, unless all the fired people were doing actually nothing.
I have no idea how everyone hired like a maniac during covid times, planned and scheduled their future game releases with that bigger work force in mind, payed gn in acquisitions, and now due to some global hysteria, everyone gets rid of the sort of same people they desperately searched for prior, fueling the unwanted recession by doing so.
Did the demand collapse? Or why are practically all studios in urgent need of cost cutting? Are all publishers suddenly questioning their game studios quality, and speed, and none can show that they need all the people? Either I need 328 people or I will be slower with then 257 or whatever? It just makes no sense, to fire needed people. Delaying your projects further, delaying future earnings further. Risking to have further lay offs when goals are then pushed back and profits postponed? What short sighted bean counter logic is that? Musk at least had some plausible reasoning behind his X restructuring. This seems like managers failing at their job.

 

[Astray]

That's a bloodbath and a half.

The number seems low-ish too, so I suspect this might not be the only layoff wave.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Why these companies still exist in San Fran and London and all these expensive places I'm surprised to see are still around (well not studio london).

Because the executives like to be in those places. Also since they are a cluster of talent it is much easier to find a job, applies to many industries.

 

[Elysium44]

Crazy how this is the week FF7 Rebirth launches and this game caused a big boom in gaming sales many years ago. Now it exists as a multi part,100+ million a piece project in a market that’s consistently downsizing in order to operate.

Key people won’t lose their big pay checks, but everyone else will have to struggle to find a new job. It makes the gaming industry look like a nightmare to work in. You have no real job security and all these studios are in areas where the cost of living is incredibly high.

That's how it is for the arts, the music and TV/movie industry is no different for the majority of people who work in it.

 

[SidViscous]

What does this mean for the Debra Wilson cinematic universe?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

He's paraphrasing Herman Hulst (not Jim) , there's two statements from Playstation out today. The PC and mobile part is in the second one.

An Important Update from PlayStation Studios

Today, Sony Interactive Entertainment initiated a reduction in our workforce – including within PlayStation Studios – and I wanted to talk about the impact that will have. These decisions have been extremely difficult, but they are necessary, and I think it’s important to be transparent: The...

sonyinteractive.com

Someone owes Thomas an apology

 

[hemo memo]

But SonyGAF assured me that, based on the first 2 weeks of sales data (after which Sony was suspiciously silent), PSVR2 would be a huge hit and greatly outsell the original.

Oh well, I bet PSVR3 is when VR will really take off.

VR is the future of gaming didn’t you hear?

 

[Kerotan]

Are all these tech companies pre empting a recession or are we already there?

 

[ResilientBanana]

Look I respect the research. But we can't talk about all of gaming and only use the US and the number of dollars spent.

There's so many different factors there that could throw those numbers in different directions. If a PS6 and nextbox and switch 2 all released next year plus the addition with gta6 alone you'll see that spending would go up again.

We truly don't know if that would be the case.

 

[Elysium44]

London most expensive place in the world for a company to employ staff

London has been named the world’s most expensive city to accommodate an employee for the third year in a row

bmmagazine.co.uk

It's been the situation for a long time now. There are companies where I live (Dubai) who prefer to employ people here to cover European territories even though they have head offices in the UK.

The situation gets even worse if you're an international business looking to send people to the UK to work:

UK is the Most Expensive Country in the World to Relocate Employees

www.eca-international.com

It's expensive because this is where a lot of the talent is, and where people want to live and work.

Your post came across as one of the usual UK BAD rants you often see online.

 

[StereoVsn]

Sony is going to abandon PS VR2 in the same manner they abandoned Vita. Initial rush of games at launch and then nothing basically.

As far as layoffs, half of it is to please shareholders and will potentially hurt many of these companies in the log term, but that doesn’t matter. Exec bonuses are yearly and most shareholders don’t hold stock for any sort of length of time now days.

Witness layoffs in MS which is an insanely profitable company.

 

[Shifty1897]

Hiroki Totoki gives no fucks.

 

[Elysium44]

Unless these are categorically dead weight positions/heads and are a small part of an overall plan with outsized efficiency gains elsewhere, then the layoff/contraction approach is a way to increase shareholder profit in the short-term without regard to the future. If things are inefficient then capable heads should be redistributed or adapted to further increase output, quality and value in the long-term across the brand.

Sony are already struggling to provide a decent, steady output for their flagship console. They should be investing in their future, not chasing a short-term dime.

If you're barely able to maintain putting out major titles even once in a given gen then you sure as hell better have improvements elsewhere that will more than offset this.

Otherwise be prepared for even worse output and more dilution of the ecosystem.

Looks very much like the former. Ditching the dead weight of VR will help in the long run.

 

[mejin]

Our dear adamsapple not sick anymore, great stuff.


Atelier Totoki brought the axe like he said.

 

[CSJ]

This isn’t games industry specific it’s happening in every sector globally.

Yep, a lot of industries are hitting the cap on constant increasing profit.
They aren't just happy with profit, they want more of it each year.

They made cuts in some places, over-worked people in others, or combined, amongst other things.
Now they're cutting out people to fill in the gaps.

What next? No more pay increases but companies begging you to take a cut in earnings because poor little business is hurty wurty please help the c-suites live.

Honestly, if they stopped over-paying the higher ups you'd find more for your staff that make actual worth but they will never happen.
The hard working, profit making staff will never get their respectful dues. The leeching higher ups who think it's all them making it "all work" will get massive amounts of unearned credit and not just monetarily but in the business world.
Playing with money other people made.

 

[Northeastmonk]

That's how it is for the arts, the music and TV/movie industry is no different for the majority of people who work in it.

I know an artist who draws for t-shirts, hats, and etc. it’s a local company. I’ve talked to him about the gaming industry/entertainment industry before. He says he would hate to be doing this for Hollywood and etc because there are way too many people to compete with. He said he could spend weeks or months making drawings, send them away, and maybe 1 if nothing at all gets picked. He said he’d hate to waste so much time. I guess it is hard for a lot of artists out there. Which also sucks.

 

[StueyDuck]

Because the executives like to be in those places. Also since they are a cluster of talent it is much easier to find a job, applies to many industries.

I think in the modern era of employment, especially tech where one really can work from home as has been proven. These sorts of excuses don't really hold up to scrutiny anymore.

I would move these companies asap. I'm certain the cost benefit of hiring 20 something from brainwashed university X isn't paying out as much as it would from brainwashed university Y from down the road that's waaaay cheaper to rent a premises and operate out of

 

[Wulfer]

Microsoft/ABK cuts appear to be generous now. They just did them at the beginning of the year. However, no job loss is ever good!

 

[Elysium44]

I think in the modern era of employment, especially tech where one really can work from home as has been proven. These sorts of excuses don't really hold up to scrutiny anymore.

I would move these companies asap. I'm certain the cost benefit of hiring 20 something from brainwashed university X isn't paying out as much as it would from brainwashed university Y from down the road that's waaaay cheaper to rent a premises and operate out of

Do you not think the quality of studios' output will suffer when they are working in isolation rather than collaboratively?

 

[MikeM]

A sign of the real economy but my elected leaders tell me things are great and present me with fake data showing low unemployment and job growth!

Stock market green! Everything is fine! /s

Sucks for all those affected. I feel like this is just the start to a major reset in the gaming world headcounts as growth stagnates. Sony’s margins are razor thin and the easiest way to bring them up in a stagnate world is chop expenses.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I think in the modern era of employment, especially tech where one really can work from home as has been proven. These sorts of excuses don't really hold up to scrutiny anymore.

Yes, well good luck finding a company that allows you to permanently WFH. It's not Covid anymore, things are better, but the majority of companies even in tech settled into 1-2 days per week, the rest you are in the office. Less 'tech' industries are even less than that.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Luipadre]

I still think buying bungie was the biggest fucking waste of money

 

[Holammer]

That sucks on ice.
I remember a thread from four'ish weeks ago when MS had layoffs, how a bunch of people pooh-pooh'd the idea of Sony firing people. If I was petty, I would dig it up and rub it in on some of the replies there. Thank God I'm such a nice guy.

 

[adamsapple]

And we're still in February.

Christ on a stick, 2023/2024 have been brutal for the industry.

 

[ulantan]

Whatever is happening at media molecule I hope it's the hypest shit ever to constantly doge these.

 

[Allandor]

Why?

What's happening in this industry?

I guess post corona. Less people are needed now, as demand dropped after the crisis was more or less over.

Those things are really sad, but companies of this size often do such things every few years. Than they grow a lot again and shrink, grow and shrink...
I guess Sony still have more people employed than before corona.
Bigger company leads to bigger playoffs in this cycle. Almost no one is talking about smaller companies that lay off a few people while it actually is e.g. 50% of the company.

Instead of creating something new with the layed off people, companies higher and fire all the time.

 

[StueyDuck]

Yes, well good luck finding a company that allows you to permanently WFH. It's not Covid anymore, things are better, but the majority of companies even in tech settled into 1-2 days per week, the rest you are in the office. Less 'tech' industries are even less than that.

Do you not think the quality of studios' output will suffer when they are working in isolation rather than collaboratively?

You are both far too hung up on the work from home part.

The point was that the talent doesn't only exist in San Fran anymore and systems have been put in place to hire from around the world for most of these big tech houses. These companies don't need to operate in these cities anymore, it's just not a good enough reason.

But it's hardly a new concept, many companies have been moving their head offices in recent years. It just seems like gaming is stuck in the past.

 

[GHG]

It's expensive because this is where a lot of the talent is, and where people want to live and work.

Your post came across as one of the usual UK BAD rants you often see online.

It's got nothing to do with the talent or mythical desirability. As an example what's this got to do with any of that?:

Renting London office space now £1,000 per desk - study reveals most expensive areas

The cheapest area can be found just south of the Thames in Vauxhall with prices around £445

www.independent.co.uk

Most of the pressures involved in the cost of employing someone are non-wage related, and those non wage related costs have spiraled out of control in the UK.

As for it being the place where people want to live and work, it once was but it has slid down the rankings over the last decade:

The Best Countries for Expats | William Russell

By once again delving deep into the data for some of the world's richest and most developed countries we have combined a number of factors to refresh our World Expat Index for 2023.

www.william-russell.com

Now ranked 40th on the William Russell index. It's just not the place to be anymore, people who travel know this.

 

[foamdino]

This is awful. It was awful a couple of months ago when Microsoft swung the axe, it's just as bad now that Sony is doing it.

They have enough money to keep folks employed, they're just trying to cut costs to make the stock market happy - short-term pandering.

If times are bad, let's see the execs take a pay cut... no didn't think so.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

We tried to tell y’all.

Sucks for those losing their jobs, hope they land somewhere.

Oh shut the hell up....unnecessary post

 

[DaGwaphics]

But SonyGAF assured me that, based on the first 2 weeks of sales data (after which Sony was suspiciously silent), PSVR2 would be a huge hit and greatly outsell the original.

Oh well, I bet PSVR3 is when VR will really take off.

Off topic for the thread, but hopefully there is a future with VR. It does open the door to some experiences otherwise not possible.

With that said, it's probably best for VR if the major players quit trying to advance the technology as fast as they are and instead focus on allowing the tech to slowly spread out. Sony would be smart to keep working with PSVR2 for the long haul. Make it the headset for PS6 as well, etc. Work on any kind of cost reductions possible instead of moving on to better tech. I understand the desire to sell existing users a new headset, but for the concept to grow it would be better for more people to be able to join the space. PSVR1 was so bad overall that they couldn't sit on that, but PSVR2 seems to be a decent experience from what you read.

 

[Harlock]

Media Molecule is spared again?

 

[Kadve]

Typical capitalist "can't see past the next quarter" bullshit when there was abnormal growth during the pandemic so companies (pretty much all of them in tech) grew and spent irresponsibly.

Well that and the fact that gaming is in a slump as a whole. The GAS market is pretty saturated and so far noone has been able to figure out what the next thing is going to be.

 

[Loxus]

I still think buying bungie was the biggest fucking waste of money

Those guys came in and got projects canceled, wasting even more money as a result.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is what happens when CEOs like Jimbo lack the courage to stand up for their own employees. This industry needs more people, not fewer. This industry needs to cultivate its talent in order to improve their output, and give them the experience they need to make better games faster. thats not going to happen if they continue to layoff talent every 2 years forcing them to start over elsewhere or risk losing them to financial or tech sectors.

They are doing this to appease the shareholders without an eye on the future. This will cause game delays and that will cause profits to go down.

This is what no backbone looks like.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

The point was that the talent doesn't only exist in San Fran anymore and systems have been put in place to hire from around the world for most of these big tech houses.

Yes, for example Ubisoft hires talent all around the world and puts them in...

OFFICES!

 

[Warnen]

Fire bungie

 

[StereoVsn]

Unless these are categorically dead weight positions/heads and are a small part of an overall plan with outsized efficiency gains elsewhere, then the layoff/contraction approach is a way to increase shareholder profit in the short-term without regard to the future. If things are inefficient then capable heads should be redistributed or adapted to further increase output, quality and value in the long-term across the brand.

Sony are already struggling to provide a decent, steady output for their flagship console. They should be investing in their future, not chasing a short-term dime.

If you're barely able to maintain putting out major titles even once in a given gen then you sure as hell better have improvements elsewhere that will more than offset this.

Otherwise be prepared for even worse output and more dilution of the ecosystem.

Yep, a lot of this is a knee jerk reaction to a quarter or two to prop up their stock temporarily. Who cares about long term when all everyone cares about are short term gains.

Well, except for Nintendo who are sitting tight on their cash pile just in case shit line this happens so they can make and plan long term decisions. And of course armchair “economists” here were criticizing them for not creating “value for shareholders” instead of keeping cash.

 

[Alebrije]

Bungie employee benefits are expensive , 900 people out around the world guaranties one year of the fully stocken kitchen at Bungie's studios.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Why?

What's happening in this industry?

Microsoft and Sony are trying to ruin it.

 

[SlicedBread3]

Sucks to hear that about London Studio, I really enjoyed Blood and Truth.

If they're keeping Media Molecule around, that gives me faith that they know what they're doing though.

 

[Alexios]

Reduce the payouts of CEOs and the armies of suits making the bad decisions leading to the "need" for cost reductions like these and they won't have to fire the people who actually make things happen on their orders. Just a thought. Not that they need to always have record profits...

 

[Loxus]

This is what happens when CEOs like Jimbo lack the courage to stand up for their own employees. This industry needs more people, not fewer. This industry needs to cultivate its talent in order to improve their output, and give them the experience they need to make better games faster. thats not going to happen if they continue to layoff talent every 2 years forcing them to start over elsewhere or risk losing them to financial or tech sectors.

They are doing this to appease the shareholders without an eye on the future. This will cause game delays and that will cause profits to go down.

This is what no backbone looks like.

Could also be as simple as Jim losing his CEO power.

Jim gave people jobs with that GAAS push but the gamers hated it, not thinking about those people that would lose their jobs when that GAAS push got canceled.

Edit:
What so funny about losing your job Alexios

 

[TheMan]

In college I briefly changed my major to computer science with a long term goal of entering the game industry. I even reached out to Vic Ireland for advice because I heard he was responsive to fans. Didn’t hear from him directly but I did get a thoughtful email from someone else on the team.

Dropped CS halfway through the semester and never looked back. One of the best decisions of my life lol

 

[StueyDuck]

Yes, for example Ubisoft hires talent all around the world and puts them in...

OFFICES!

Ok forget the work from home statement since it's really making you struggle to understand what is being said.

No work from home ever grrrr bad, smelly work from home...

ok... you ready to read now?

The fact is the world is more connected than ever, the tech industry has adapted easily over the years to hiring globally and not just only hiring local people from the local city.

It's dumb to have an office in San Fran that is cost 20x more than it would in any other state if the sole reason would be "talent".

The only reason it is worth it would be if you are getting some sort of tax break or benefit from having your employment offices in that location. For example, Rockstar.

I can promise you now a major reason studio London just got closed down was because it was operating in London and the costs of operating were through the roof