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[Dreams-Visions]

NPR Segment (4 minutes long) http://www.npr.org/2011/06/22/137347548/n-c-considers-paying-forced-sterilization-victims

http://extras.journalnow.com/againsttheirwill/

NC Forced Sterilization Victims Voice Grief, Pain

There is nothing the state of North Carolina can do, Elaine Riddick says, to make up for forcing her to be sterilized when she was 14 years old.

"They cut me open like I was a hog," the woman who now lives in Atlanta said at a Wednesday hearing in Raleigh held by a panel working to determine compensation for thousands of victims of the state's defunct eugenics program."My heart bleeds every single day. I'm crushed. What can they do for me?"

Riddick, 57, was one of 13 people who spoke at the meeting, and one of nearly 3,000 living victims of the program, which was shuttered in 1977, three years after the last sterilization was performed. The public hearing is part of a process unprecedented not just in North Carolina, but nationally. About a half dozen other states have joined North Carolina in apologizing for past eugenics programs, but none of the others have put together a plan to compensate victims of involuntary sterilization.

"It's hard for me to accept or understand or even try to figure out why these kinds of atrocious acts could be carried out in this country," said Gov. Beverly Perdue, who appointed the Eugenics Task Force that convened Wednesday's hearing.

Any plan that involves financial compensation will be a hard sell, though, in a year when the state budget includes deep cuts to numerous programs. The General Assembly passed the $19.7 billion spending plan over Perdue's veto. Bills in the legislature aimed at providing specific financial and medical compensation for victims have stalled.

"We've made some baby steps, but as we get closer to the big one, there's some pushback," said state Rep. Larry Womble, D-Forsyth, the lawmaker who's been most active on the issue.

Womble initially sought payments of $50,000 for each victim, but said the state Industrial Commission, which pays claims from lawsuits and other matters, suggested $20,000 as a more realistic figure. The task force hasn't yet settled on an amount or type of compensation to recommend. It's scheduled to send a draft report to Perdue by Aug. 1.

The possibility that the state would only offer symbolic or low-stakes compensation rankled some victims and their family members.

"It's still being said to my mother 47 years later," said Deborah Chesson, whose mother was sterilized in the 1960s after giving birth, and who was too ill to travel to the hearing. "You are still saying that she means nothing."

Some victims expressed a raw anger that hasn't lessened over the decades, while others voiced regret that a procedure done to them as adolescents shaped the rest of their lives.

"That's the only thing I hated about being operated on, `cause I couldn't have kids," said Willis Lynch, 77, who was sterilized at 14. "It's always been in the back of my mind."

Lela Dunston was sterilized after giving birth to a son at 13. She wanted to have daughters one day, and mourns her inability to have children with her husband.

"They did away with me," she said. "I can't have no babies."

About 7,600 people were sterilized under North Carolina's eugenics program. Roughly 85 percent of the victims were women or girls. Unlike most states, North Carolina ramped up its sterilizations after World War II, despite associations between eugenics and Nazi Germany, which took eugenics to even more horrifying lengths. Around 70 percent of all North Carolina's sterilizations were performed after the war, peaking in the 1950s, according to state records.

In 2002, then-Gov. Mike Easley formally apologized for the program.

Nationwide, there were more than 60,000 known victims of sterilization programs, with perhaps another 40,000 sterilized through "unofficial" channels like hospitals or local health departments working on their own initiative. Eugenics was aimed at creating a better society by filtering out people considered undesirable, ranging from criminals to those imprecisely designated as "feeble-minded."

People as young as 10 in North Carolina were sterilized for not getting along with schoolmates, being promiscuous or running afoul of local social workers or doctors. The state's law, which allowed such professionals to refer people to the state Eugenics Board for sterilization, was more open-ended than similar statutes in other states, where people had to be jailed or institutionalized before they could be sterilized.

"Where did all this come from? This came from doctors, medical practitioners, professors, not guys in pickup trucks wearing white sheets," said Edwin Black, author of the eugenics history "War Against the Weak."

Black said financial compensation alone won't address the scope of the wrongdoing. He said states where sterilization took place should also make additions to school curricula and erect public monuments to acknowledge what happened.

"You can't just write a check, you have to right the wrong," he said.

Victims who spoke at the hearing said they were glad the process that began with Easley's apology has enabled them to learn they weren't alone.

"I thank God I'm still alive so I could get up here and tell this story," Dunston said. "They did this to me."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=137349432

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06...0/eugenics-task-force-062211.html&gid_index=1

GAF, I'm going to be honest: I don't cry very often, but this shit brought tears to my eyes during my commute this evening on NPR. I couldn't help it as teary testimonies flooded my car speakers.

First of all, I had no fucking idea at all that ANY state in this great nation EVER participated in eugenics. Targeting the poor and "undesirables"? You know that means women and minorities for the most part. Rage-inducing.

Secondly, how did any American really think this was a good idea? Ever? I know on GAF we sometimes joke about such things when we hear stories of horrific parenting, but the fact that SEVERAL states in our nation thought this was alright is...I'm sorry, but I'm fucking shocked, GAF.

Random facts I don't see in this article but were mentioned on-air:

1.) Social workers often pushed (and by pushed, I do mean "forced") many of these women into getting sterilized by telling them it was the only way to get public assistance.

2.) Many were forced into it without their consent when they were on an operating table. One woman who was raped was sterilized during the C-Section birth of the child, her only son.

3.) In some documented cases, all that was needed was a rumor of you behaving badly and boom! you got sterilized.

As late as the fucking 70s, people were still getting sterilized?

Help me understand any part of this, GAF. And help me understand why $50,000 represents reasonable compensation for someone being robbed of their reproductive ability.

Also, I'll post the audio from the hearing if I can find it. I'm just beside myself right now.

Also,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFqxeeMGIRk

^ the book referenced in the article.

http://extras.journalnow.com/againsttheirwill/

^ the definitive source for details, charts and stories. thanks to Rusty Nails.

 

[AceBandage]

What the fuck...

 

[Gaborn]

Buck v Bell. One of the great stains in US history.

 

[SUPREME1]

DUUUUUDE, WHAT THE FUCK.




WHAT IN THE FUCK MAN.







FUCK.
WHAAAT?

Smh. Just fuck.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

Very few people know that it was actually the United States along with many "good" countries who propagated the pro-eugenic agenda that the Nazi's used on the Jewish population.

Sterilization in the US went on up until the mid-60s LEGALLY.

Buck v Bell. One of the great stains in US history.

Indeed. "3 generations of imbeciles are enough."

 

[FutureZombie]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

 

[giga]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

Joke?

 

[erpg]

Yup. People seem to forget eugenics was being practiced in first world countries will into the last century.

 

[WedgeX]

This happened in the modern United States.

 

[The Technomancer]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

Dude, there is an argument to be had about this, but not in this thread. Read the article. This was monstrous.

 

[Brobzoid]

Very few people know that it was actually the United States along with many "good" countries who propagated the pro-eugenic agenda that the Nazi's used on the Jewish population.

this isn't taught in the american school system?

 

[Mastadon]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

Please be a joke post. The whole affair is sickening

 

[Lambtron]

The older I get, the less patriotic I become.

this isn't taught in the american school system?

Why would you teach this? It would ruin the aura and mystique of the country we should blindly support.

 

[SUPREME1]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

You are a buffoon.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Yup. People seem to forget eugenics was being practiced in first world countries will into the last century.

I don't think most people our age know.

And I have a feeling that if you didn't live in one of the 6 or 7 states practicing this, you probably wouldn't have known about it.

Or, that's what I will tell myself to feel better about our parents' generation and their parents' generation.

I just don't understand it. Goddamn it, GAF.

Goddamnit. I feel the tears welling up again.

 

[FutureZombie]

Joke?

No. People who can unfit to parent have caused roughly 100% of our society's problems.

 

[Parallax]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

wow. are you serious with this bullshit?

 

[Trojita]

"We've made some baby steps, but as we get closer to the big one, there's some pushback," said state Rep. Larry Womble, D-Forsyth, the lawmaker who's been most active on the issue.

Wow.

 

[Yaboosh]

Buck v Bell. One of the great stains in US history.

Isn't that still standing precedent?

 

[Lambtron]

No. People who can unfit to parent have caused roughly 100% of our society's problems.

I'm childfree, and I know this, what you are saying, is 100% garbage. Go find another thread for this stuff. It does not belong here.

 

[Mastadon]

No. People who can unfit to parent have caused roughly 100% of our society's problems.

And what makes the people discussed in the article unfit parents? Did you even read it?

 

[Parallax]

No. People who can unfit to parent have caused roughly 100% of our society's problems.

man, i dont even know what to say to things like this.

 

[Coins]

I dont have a problem with violent criminals being sterilized. I also think in order to have a kid you should be able to prove you can care for it. I have no interest in paying for someone elses mistake.

 

[Funky Papa]

Dude, there is an argument to be had about this, but not in this thread. Read the article. This was monstrous.

The older I get, the less patriotic I become.

My only contribution in this thread is going to be a "." in response. Because anything else could grant me a ban.

 

[The Technomancer]

No. People who can unfit to parent have caused roughly 100% of our society's problems.

Did you read the fucking article? These people were not "judged" based on their parenting ability or any such similar standard.

 

[Nif]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

You would have to go through checks to adopt a child. You haven't really thought this through. At least I hope people aren't as ignorant as to think sterilizing potentially bad parents or have bad genes is okay, especially 14 year olds. Holy fuck.

 

[perfectnight]

The US is literally a comically evil world super power.

 

[Coins]

And what makes the people discussed in the article unfit parents? Did you even read it?

The article suggested that some of the people were criminals. It should specify to what degree because a criminal is a pretty broad spectrum from jaywalkers to murderers.

 

[chaostrophy]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

Comments like this are everywhere. Given that, I don't know how anyone could be shocked that the US practiced this recently.

As much as I hate to dignify this kind of BS with a response DENYING SOMEONE A PET DOES NOT INVOLVE IRREVERSIBLE INVASIVE SURGERY.

 

[besada]

From 1946 to 1953, at the Walter E. Fernald State School in Massachusetts, in an experiment sponsored by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission and the Quaker Oats corporation, 73 mentally disabled children were fed oatmeal containing radioactive calcium and other radioisotopes, in order to track "how nutrients were digested". The children were not told that they were being fed radioactive chemicals and were told by hospital staff and researchers that they were joining a "science club".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_...the_United_States#Human_radiation_experiments

We do terrible things to each other.

 

[N4Us]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

This isn't gonna end well, man.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

No. People who can unfit to parent have caused roughly 100% of our society's problems.

So Eugenics is a good thing? WUT. I won't bother commenting other than to say that you should read the OP. Many victims were people were forced into sterilization for whom there was nothing wrong and were doing nothing wrong. Americans were sterilized that were raped. Americans were sterilized because their teachers didn't like them. Americans were coerced into sterilized by Social Workers.

If that doesn't disgust you, well...it doesn't seem we had much to discuss anyway.

this isn't taught in the american school system?

No, sir. I've never heard of this until today, at around 5:35pm EST.

Someone needs to make a documentary about this and get these people on camera before they're forever lost to history.

Also, here's the trailer for the book referenced in the article:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFqxeeMGIRk

I'll add it to the OP.

 

[Trojita]

I know on GAF we sometimes joke about such things when we hear stories of horrific parenting, but the fact that SEVERAL states in our nation thought this was alright is...I'm sorry, but I'm fucking shocked, GAF.

I don't think those were jokes.

 

[giga]

I dont have a problem with violent criminals being sterilized.

 

[paranoidfortean]

every baby is a miracle!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Leunam]

man, i dont even know what to say to things like this.

He's not the only one on the forum to think this. In fact, they're usually very outspoken. I wonder why they aren't inclined to reply now in light of this tragic story.

 

[teh_pwn]

I had no idea such shit took place. Life in jail to anyone that took part in this.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I don't think those were jokes.

If the start of this thread is any indication, it appears you were right.

I just wow

 

[bengraven]

Horrible. Reminds me that we hired hundreds of Nazi and Japanese doctors after WWII and used their research, sometimes against our own people, to make "progress".

 

[bigmakattack]

This was acceptable in a strong developed country, especially one that prides itself on being free?

WOW, uh, just Wow. Sterilization as early as 13 and 14. That's just sick and unacceptable. I agree with one of the victims. There probably isn't any sort of compensation that would make something like this go away.

Just wow.

 

[kehs]

Holy shit, how have I never heard about this?

wtf

 

[Coins]

Habitual sex offenders shouldnt be sterilized?

 

[FutureZombie]

So Eugenics is a good thing? WUT. I won't bother commenting other than to say that you should read the OP. Many victims were people were forced into sterilization for whom there was nothing wrong and were doing nothing wrong. Americans were sterilized that were raped. Americans were sterilized because their teachers didn't like them. Americans were coerced into sterilized by Social Workers.

If that doesn't disgust you, well...it doesn't seem we had much to discuss anyway.

We should develop a set of criteria for sterilizing people. It shouldn't be because we don't like the way they look or what religion they are. It should be based on their past deeds. You have a kid at 13, we're taking a serious look at you.

And not only have I read the OP, I have read about this exact case in North Carolina before.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_...the_United_States#Human_radiation_experiments

We do terrible things to each other.

oh man, you need to read:

You thought you've heard of some wild shit?

You haven't scratched the surface of what this nation has done to its poorest and most marginalized.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0385509936/?tag=neogaf0e-20

It's one of the few research-based books that truly earned every one of its 5 stars.

 

[Mastadon]

The article suggested that some of the people were criminals. It should specify to what degree because a criminal is a pretty broad spectrum from jaywalkers to murderers.

Being a "criminal" doesn't auto-disqualify you from being a good parent. You seem to have glossed over the 10 year old Girls mentioned too...

 

[perfectnight]

We should develop a set of criteria for sterilizing people. It shouldn't be because we don't like the way they look or what religion they are. It should be based on their past deeds. You have a kid at 13, we're taking a serious look at you.

And not only have I read the OP, I have read about this exact case in North Carolina before.

Off

 

[Trojita]

Horrible. Reminds me that we hired hundreds of Nazi and Japanese doctors after WWII and used their research, sometimes against our own people, to make "progress".

Even as we burned all research papers conducted by Nazi Scientists as soon as they we're found, irregardless of whether it would have been good or not since it had "the taint". Then we hired some of the Nazi scientists to continue their work!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

We should develop a set of criteria for sterilizing people. It shouldn't be because we don't like the way they look or what religion they are. It should be based on their past deeds. You have a kid at 13, we're taking a serious look at you.

I...wow.

I.......

wow.

 

[CornBurrito]

If you want to adopt a pet, you have to go through certain checks to make sure you are fit to take care of the animal. And yet, you can have as many kids as you want, at any age, and if we say anything about that, we're Nazis?

Is not reading the OP a bannable offense yet?

Also this should really be taught in schools. I never knew about this at all. The Japanese internment is taught in the American educational system. Why isn't this taught?

 

[Coins]

Being a "criminal" doesn't auto-disqualify you from being a good parent. You seem to have glossed over the 10 year old mentioned too...

Its pretty apparent that sterilizing a 10 year old is wrong. Do we need to discuss if we agree with that or not? Pretty much a moot point so I was talking about the article discussing some criminals were as well.

And yes, if you murder a few people, youre going to be a bad parent.