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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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I

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

it's 4th of July in my asshole
LocoMrPollock said:
He gets a lot of unjustified hate, but his writing is clearly inspired by Martin, and Martin himself has praised him and I even glimpsed a little of Abercrombie's style in parts of Dance. Reek's and Victarrion's chapters in-particular.

Still, probably wouldn't be a good fit as Abercrombie is much more to the point and isn't half as visual or wordy as Martin is.
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He's good at what he does but he wont be able to do what Martin does. Abercrombie is closer to Feist than Martin.
 
A

apana

Member
George RR Martin in 62. He'll likely have Winds of Winter done by 66 and Dream of Spring by 70. There is nothing to worry about unless he decides on an eigth book and he has stated that he likes the idea of there being seven books in the series and that's how he is expecting it to turn out.
 
P

Piecake

Member
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
He's good at what he does but he wont be able to do what Martin does. Abercrombie is closer to Feist than Martin.
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Eh, I disagree with that. What Abraham excels at is characters, and that is the reason, if anyone has to take over ASOIAF, I want it to be him.

Woops, brain fart. Read Abraham instead of Abercrombie. Yea, I don't want him taking over the series either.
 
C

Chris R

Member
I guess I'm an optimist. I expect the series to be done by this time 2015. He is 'over the hump' as it were. If he knows exactly where this story is going, getting there shouldn't be as hard now. He also has additional incentive in trying to get the story finished in time for the TV series to catch it up...

Granted, that is IF he knows where the story is going. If he still hasn't decided then I guess 2019 doesn't sound too far off... :(
 
B

Basileus777

Member
rhfb said:
I guess I'm an optimist. I expect the series to be done by this time 2015.
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There's optimism, and then there's insanity...

There is absolutely no way Martin can write the final two books in three years. This series probably needs another 800k+ words to be completed, expecting some miracle is only setting yourself for disappointment.
 
J

JDAWGZZZ

Member
The plot has slowed down tremendously in the last two books and GRRM isn't getting any younger. This is gonna be Wheel of Time all over again.
:(
 
C

Chris R

Member
Basileus777 said:
There's optimism, and then there's insanity...

There is absolutely no way Martin can write the final two books in three years.
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He already has a good start on the next book, and like I said, if he has EVERYTHING planned out, shit can just flow out quicker than you can type it in (I've been in the zone a few times while programming, feeeeels good man). If he runs into another knot or two then yes, there will be delays, but if there isn't and he gets into a groove, who knows?
 
B

Basileus777

Member
rhfb said:
He already has a good start on the next book, and like I said, if he has EVERYTHING planned out, shit can just flow out quicker than you can type it in (I've been in the zone a few times while programming, feeeeels good man). If he runs into another knot or two then yes, there will be delays, but if there isn't and he gets into a groove, who knows?
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He doesn't have everything planned out, that's not the type of writer Martin is. He's a "gardener", and exploratory writer, he doesn't have everything planned out and outlined in detail. The guy was making significant structural changes to his story even when writing ADWD, the 5th book in the series. Besides, you're talking about an incredible amount of work to be done in 3 years of writing. Groove or not, Martin is not going to write two 350-450k word doorstoppers in 3 years. 2015 is outright impossible.
 
J

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
apana said:
Barristan felt bad for Quentyn, remember that whole mud and fire thing he was talking about. That goes into the Alpha/Beta male issue some people are very interested in. Barristan also loved some lady, Ashara Dayne, but one of the Starks got together with her. He talks about Ned Stark liking her and then about the Stark who defiled her. Initially I assumed Ned Stark did the "defiling" by having intimate relations with her but then I realized it could also be Brandon. He never said which Stark and he always had a good relationship with Ned. Gets me to thinking that maybe Brandon and Ashara could be Jon's real parents. Another possiblity is Lyanna and Rhaegar. Honestly I'd be happy if Jon was actually the son of some fisherwoman. It's kind of cliche for orpans and bastards to have secret royal/rich/famous parents.
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Do we know why Benjen went to the Hall? Just because he's entitled to nothing being the youngest, or do we know the actual motivation? Can't recall
 
A

Aselith

Member
ZephyrFate said:
Little and less.
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It is known.

apana said:
George RR Martin in 62. He'll likely have Winds of Winter done by 66 and Dream of Spring by 70. There is nothing to worry about unless he decides on an eigth book and he has stated that he likes the idea of there being seven books in the series and that's how he is expecting it to turn out.
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I bet he does, worshiping false gods as he does. The holy light of R'hllor will consume all his works and his filthy physical manifestation in the end though.
 
R

Rubashov

Member
ZephyrFate said:
You know nothing, Aselith.
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Where do Hodors go?

Are there any ironborn haters from AFFC who have changed their mind about Victarion after this book? People seem to be warming up to him in this thread, at least. I loved him since his battle scene at the Shields, where he injured his hand catching a fucking sword. You can't help but admire the balls of someone who fights on the deck of a ship in heavy plate.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Rubashov said:
Where do Hodors go?

Are there any ironborn haters from AFFC who have changed their mind about Victarion after this book? People seem to be warming up to him in this thread, at least. I loved him since his battle scene at the Shields, where he injured his hand catching a fucking sword. You can't help but admire the balls of someone who fights on the deck of a ship in heavy plate.
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I've been fascinated by the ironborn since ACoK but AFFC made Vic one of my favorite characters with one of my favorite chapters in the series (the one you mentioned). ADWD only makes him even COOLER.
 
E

ezrarh

Member
Rubashov said:
Where do Hodors go?

Are there any ironborn haters from AFFC who have changed their mind about Victarion after this book? People seem to be warming up to him in this thread, at least. I loved him since his battle scene at the Shields, where he injured his hand catching a fucking sword. You can't help but admire the balls of someone who fights on the deck of a ship in heavy plate.
Click to expand...

I've definitely warmed up to Victarion but I still hate the Ironborn. He could be a top character depending on what he does when he finds Dany.
 
F

falastini

Member
ezrarh said:
I've definitely warmed up to Victarion but I still hate the Ironborn. He could be a top character depending on what he does when he finds Dany.
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I imagine him rolling up in Mereen and smashing Daario with an axe to the face... that would be glorious.


So does anybody else think Dany will destroy the Dorthraki, instead of joining them? I mean, if she really wanted to destroy the slave trade, what better way then eliminating the source, right? Then she's free to leave the free cities to their own devices and get back to Westeros, instead of baby-sitting Mereen.
 
T

tokkun

Member
The Ironborn are fine. People just hate them because of all the boring Aeron Damphair chapters. As Littlefinger might say, nothing shuts someone down faster than a burst of pious bleating.
 
R

Rubashov

Member
falastini said:
I imagine him rolling up in Mereen and smashing Daario with an axe to the face... that would be glorious.


So does anybody else think Dany will destroy the Dorthraki, instead of joining them? I mean, if she really wanted to destroy the slave trade, what better way then eliminating the source, right? Then she's free to leave the free cities to their own devices and get back to Westeros, instead of baby-sitting Mereen.
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I hope Daario ends up as a butt boy for the fleet. Vic will put him on a new ship: Gold Tooth, Brown Eye.

Putting an end to the Dothraki slave trade would be a nice and clean way to get Dany out of the east. I think there are too many independent khalasars, though. Maybe she'll make an example of the ones at hand and scare off the other khals from going near Slaver's Bay again.
 
S

Sotha Sil

Member
tokkun said:
The Ironborn are fine. People just hate them because of all the boring Aeron Damphair chapters. As Littlefinger might say, nothing shuts someone down faster than a burst of pious bleating.
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Not really. Actually, I would have loved Damphair's chapter had the Ironborn culture and religion been interesting. It's not. I hate them because they are little more than barbarians, and because barbarians are only interesting in fight scenes (and I don't really care for those). I like characters with complex motivations and goals. More Euron would have been fine.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
I really hope Vic survives long enough to pull off some epic fighting. I'd love for him to be the one who Calls the Kraken - somehow exchanging his dragon horn for the kraken horn - then riding atop it as he crashes down on ships with his power hand.



 
Jedeye Sniv

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
I finally finished AFFC the other day and was thinking about buying ADWD. Until I saw the size of the hardcover. Fuck carrying that thing around with me. Guess I'll be waiting until april to read it :(
 
G

Granger Danger

Member
Jedeye Sniv said:
I finally finished AFFC the other day and was thinking about buying ADWD. Until I saw the size of the hardcover. Fuck carrying that thing around with me. Guess I'll be waiting until april to read it :(
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Get a Kindle. It will change your life.

I actually feel romantic butterflies in my stomach every time I see mine, that's how great it is.
 
Freshmaker

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Rubashov said:
Where do Hodors go?

Are there any ironborn haters from AFFC who have changed their mind about Victarion after this book?
Click to expand...
I'll be almost interested in him when he gives his fleet to Dany. Right now, Martin might as well have dropped a Klingon into the story.
People seem to be warming up to him in this thread, at least. I loved him since his battle scene at the Shields, where he injured his hand catching a fucking sword. You can't help but admire the balls of someone who fights on the deck of a ship in heavy plate.
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Martin's wrong about the weight of plate. They've demonstrated that it's possible to swim in the stuff. The really heavy armor was the jousting armor which wasn't worn in other situations due to its impracticality.
 
A

Arcblade

Banned
My point wasn't that Abercrombie would be a great replecement for Martin, but rather that the series is going to take so long to finish that SOMEBODY is going to be ghost writing for him...

But with all the "wind and words" uttered in ADWD, it is not too far of a stretch to imagine Abercrombie filling in after Martin is "back to the mud". :/

Btw - anyone else enjoy/get annoyed by Martin slipping that MP Holy Grail reference into ADWD?
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
Arcblade said:
My point wasn't that Abercrombie would be a great replecement for Martin, but rather that the series is going to take so long to finish that SOMEBODY is going to be ghost writing for him...

But with all the "wind and words" uttered in ADWD, it is not too far of a stretch to imagine Abercrombie filling in after Martin is "back to the mud". :/

Btw - anyone else enjoy/get annoyed by Martin slipping that MP Holy Grail reference into ADWD?
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It's purely speculation that this "series is going to take so long to finish".
 
I

IamMattFox

Member
Rubashov said:
Are there any ironborn haters from AFFC who have changed their mind about Victarion after this book? People seem to be warming up to him in this thread, at least. I loved him since his battle scene at the Shields, where he injured his hand catching a fucking sword. You can't help but admire the balls of someone who fights on the deck of a ship in heavy plate.
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Asha's my second favorite female character behind Arya.

Aeron kills my buzz, but Victarion's making up for that now. And I'm really intrigued by Euron. I hope he ends up being involved in a decent amount of scenes in the next two books.
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
Arcblade said:
This is true.

But precedent is on my side.
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One instance of having to deal with a Gordian knot does not really set a precedent. If The Winds of Winter takes six years then yeah, I'll agree with you.
 
S

suzu

Member
Rubashov said:
Are there any ironborn haters from AFFC who have changed their mind about Victarion after this book? People seem to be warming up to him in this thread, at least. I loved him since his battle scene at the Shields, where he injured his hand catching a fucking sword. You can't help but admire the balls of someone who fights on the deck of a ship in heavy plate.
Click to expand...
I've always liked Theon (come at me bros), and Asha is all right. Victarion is also pretty hilarious in ADWD, so I'm warming up to him. I don't care for the others.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Diprosalic said:
2012
2013
2014
2015
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He said this time 2015, so that means only a few months of 2015, which is really not something worth nitpicking about. It changes absolutely nothing about what I was saying.

ZephyrFate said:
One instance of having to deal with a Gordian knot does not really set a precedent. If The Winds of Winter takes six years then yeah, I'll agree with you.
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It's not one instance. AFFC's delay had nothing to do with the knot.
 
K

KingK

Member
Rubashov said:
Are there any ironborn haters from AFFC who have changed their mind about Victarion after this book? People seem to be warming up to him in this thread, at least. I loved him since his battle scene at the Shields, where he injured his hand catching a fucking sword. You can't help but admire the balls of someone who fights on the deck of a ship in heavy plate.
Click to expand...

Not me. If anything, I like Victarion less after Dance. He always seemed like a one dimensional, stupid asshole in Feast, but now it's just been confirmed. I don't even really enjoy his fight scenes much because I don't care about the character involved and wish he would die.

Euron seems interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him. And Theon became one of my favorite (well, one of the most interesting) characters in this book. As long as he doesn't go back to the Iron Islands, I think I will continue enjoying his chapters. Asha is still ok, but not great. I don't dread coming upon her chapters, but I don't always look forward to them either.
 
T

tokkun

Member
ZephyrFate said:
Nope. Not even close.
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You can't claim that there is only one instance of GRRM taking a long time to write a book. Feast was also 5 years. Yeah, each book had its own excuse, but there's no reason not to expect a new excuse for this one.

The problems he is having are not just falling out of the sky, they are occurring because he is reaching the point where he needs to start bringing things together and resolving plot lines. This is only going to get harder in the next two books.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
tokkun said:
You can't claim that there is only one instance of GRRM taking a long time to write a book. Feast was also 5 years. Yeah, each book had its own excuse, but there's no reason not to expect a new excuse for this one.

The problems he is having are not just falling out of the sky, they are occurring because he is reaching the point where he needs to start bringing things together and resolving plot lines. This is only going to get harder in the next two books.
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Exactly. Martin has had major structural difficulties as late as in book 4 and 5 of a series. He isn't an outliner type of writer that has everything planned out in detail, there's no reason to believe that he won't encounter future problems or fall into the trap of obsessively rewriting and revising things again.
 
D

dabig2

Member
I do really hope with this knot supposedly undone, he can get back to writing these books in 2 years. I mean, aSoS was out in just under 2 years following aCoK which was out 2 years after aGoT.

If he can get that kinda pace going again, we will be finished by at least 2016. Which would be awesome.
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
tokkun said:
You can't claim that there is only one instance of GRRM taking a long time to write a book. Feast was also 5 years. Yeah, each book had its own excuse, but there's no reason not to expect a new excuse for this one.

The problems he is having are not just falling out of the sky, they are occurring because he is reaching the point where he needs to start bringing things together and resolving plot lines. This is only going to get harder in the next two books.
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With how much he has set things up for Winds of Winter, I have no doubt that it's not only going to be a much quicker book to write, but that a lot of shit is going to happen as well as plotlines resolved. It's practically inevitable.

And to keep going this 5000th argument about it.
 
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