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Develop: Sony studios have started PS4 projects, Xbox Next aiming for 2013 launch

dr_rus

Member
Syphon Filter said:
I seriously doubt sony is going to allow MS to get a year headstart again.
Yeah. Getting the early core adopters is important. The only thing that may justify SCE launching PS4 a year later than Xbox 3 is some kind of a killer exclusive software line-up on launch. I'm thinking that they'll come out pretty close to each other though -- the gap shouldn't be bigger that half a year otherwise they'll loose in NA agian.

Averon said:
Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, and Polyphony are pretty much guaranteed to have first dibs at PS4 hardware.
There is no PS4 h/w. They may have some target specs and control schemes but it's too early to have even prototype devkits yet.

Monty Mole said:
Well the GPU was put in at the very last minute, hence the deal with Nvidia. All seemed a bit Saturn to me at the time.
The GPU was always in there. It was called RS and was supposed to be made by Toshiba. But they screw up and that's why the deal with NV for RSX was made just a year before the launch window. That's also the reason why RSX is so badly connected to the whole PS3 system and has much less console-specific customizations then it should. NV just didn't have enough time.
 
bigtroyjon said:
I wonder how much money Sony would end up paying Microsoft for each PS4 they make if they use Android. $10 bucks seems to be the going rate for phones and tablets. Would be funny if they price the 720 10 dollars cheaper and just say they are subsidizing the cheaper cost with PS4 sales.

Why would Sony pay Microsoft for using Android?? That makes no sense whatsoever. Sony is a member in OHA. Microsoft is not.
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
$99 PS3?

I'd buy one for the kitchen & the bathroom, fuck another extra one for while showering

Clean myself and Earn trophies
Yes! I have an addiction! (/.\;)

All I want is faster speed on my PS4, please for the love of god 16x+ read speed please ; ;
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
bigtroyjon said:
I wonder how much money Sony would end up paying Microsoft for each PS4 they make if they use Android. $10 bucks seems to be the going rate for phones and tablets. Would be funny if they price the 720 10 dollars cheaper and just say they are subsidizing the cheaper cost with PS4 sales.

I wonder how much money Microsoft would end up paying Sony for each XBoxNext they make, if they use Blu-Ray. [I have no clue on the going rate is, LOL]. Would be funny if they price the PS4 "$__" dollars cheaper and just say they are subsidizing the cheaper cost with XBXN sales.

=D
 
GraveRobberX said:
I wonder how much money Microsoft would end up paying Sony for each XBoxNext they make, if they use Blu-Ray. [I have no clue on the going rate is, LOL]. Would be funny if they price the PS4 "$__" dollars cheaper and just say they are subsidizing the cheaper cost with XBXN sales.

=D

No need to take offense console warrior, it was a joke about Android and had little to do with Sony.
 
They better hope the world economy recovers by 2013. It could even be worse by then instead of better. We could witness two of the poorest launches in recent console history.
 

slider

Member
A PS4 launch will have to be just right, IMO, if MS get the 720 out with a significant head start. What's significant? Dunno. But a autumn/winter launch in 2013 by MS and I think Sony would have to aim for, gosh, before the next holiday season. Not sure if that makes sense though.

I'm kind of ready for next gen already. I'm probably in the minority but bring it. All I ask from Sony's 1st party studios is they do as good a job as they have (in bringing me fun) this gen. All I want on the 720 is another Alan Wake!
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If they call the new system "nextbox" I'm going to draw a rageguy comic
 
Kaijima said:
Folks better get used to it. We're at a level of visuals that average customer is perfectly happy with now for 3d graphics.


You're gonna feel like a real stoopid monkey for typing this when 2013 comes around.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
You know what I want from PS4 and Xbox next? Reliability.

I don't want some shitty let me beat the other guy to the market rush job. I want a system that's not built with chips with a high failure rate, and shitty cooling devices.

A shame that I even have such a concern, but after this gen, and it's shitty hardware, I'm afraid to be an early adopter.
 
V_Ben said:
Well, what if God Of War 4 is announced at the VGAs?

I dunno, GoW story line is sort of dead after 3. I mean, he basically tries to get revenge on like all of the Greek gods. Next? God of War: AUSTERITY MEASURES.
 
GraveRobberX said:
I wonder how much money Microsoft would end up paying Sony for each XBoxNext they make, if they use Blu-Ray. [I have no clue on the going rate is, LOL]. Would be funny if they price the PS4 "$__" dollars cheaper and just say they are subsidizing the cheaper cost with XBXN sales.

=D

Then does MS price their system cheaper and say the are subsidizing the cheaper cost with Vaio sales? It is so silly because they both license tech.
 

bh7812

Banned
I want to write a response to this before too much time passes, and I think it might be a somewhat controversial reply but I'd like to post this none the less. I've written what I'm gonna write (more or less anyway) in a few places the last few years when the topic of next gen comes up and I've caught some hell for it.

Next Gen...honestly and seriously this is what I think will happen. Now, I don't work in the industry nor do I have industry sources but this is what my best guess is based on stuff I've followed and read. Just to start, if I'm wrong on what I'll write about Sony I'll gladly eat my words later but I think at least in their case we have a clearer picture of where they're aiming to go shorter term.

I want to contribute an actual, constructive piece to the thread as opposed to some baseless answer with nothing to back it up.

The controversial statement: I do not believe Sony will launch a traditional home console next gen. I'll give my explanation why below.
First to get Microsoft and Nintendo out of the way.

Nintendo: Everyone knows about the Wii U, Nintendo themselves confirmed it so it's not speculation anymore. I do believe they will launch it next summer or Fall BUT they've probably had to go back to the drawing board on at least a few things. When exactly it launches will depend heavily on how much re-working they want to do. They'll almost certainly be trying to get the point across on what it is a lot better and show why it's a necessary leap up from Wii. I personally had no problem with the unveiling..I don't know if people had a problem with it per se but those who were actually there seemed to be confused on some aspects of it. They may re-work the tablet controller to some extent, I imagine they're looking at some kind of optional traditional controller support along with the tablet controller. They're going to have to deal with online/online infrastructure as well. I'm not big on online gaming but their current plans have left many underwhelmed so they're probably trying to figure out how to get to the point of "unified online structure" as quickly as possible. Will lightning strike again for Nintendo? It's simply too early to tell. I think we'll have a better idea on it's more immediate impact at launch when they're ready to show first party, EAD stuff. Could go either way but even I'll admit they're gonna have a much tougher time of it next gen.

Microsoft: I think the evidence and writing on the wall are clear, and they will release a successor to the 360. Only question is when. I do think, however, in the more distant future their gaming focus will center completely around Xbox Live and eventually concentrate on expanding that via PCs since they can get even more users that way. Microsoft has two big issues going into next gen. One: Avoid another Red Ring of Death fiasco at all costs. Doesn't matter if they make good profit every year, what matters is on a PR level they simply cannot afford a repeat of that. If it happens again I honestly think they're done with consoles but I think even they wanna avoid it again too. Two: They're gonna have to come up with games outside their reliable stable of Gears, Forza and Fable. They're all great series but it's gonna come to a point of you can take the series' only so far. Their big challenge will be coming up with games beyond those that can be real hits.

Sony: Now for my controversial statement. Watching Sony this gen I had my doubts already if they'd release another home console. With Vita coming however I have a better idea of where I THINK they're going. I do not personally believe they will release another home console-a PS4-anytime soon. Why? With Vita this much is clear..they're heavily pushing Vita/PS3 connectivity and interaction. Start a game on Vita, continue later on PS3 and vice versa. Vita is supposedly comparable to PS3 in power and tech so having a portable device that compliments the PS3 is a sensible next step. The PS3 has a lot of horse power as it is so they will push that and work well together. Secondly the whole PS3/PSP/Vita remasters thing tells me they're trying to go more in the direction of two pillars that will consist of Vita and PS3. Sony has had an awful past 5 years..PSP launched..had a great start..success in Japan, the West not so much courtesy of homebrew/piracy. PS3 launches at an insanely high price..very slow first few years..just now getting to where you can say "I'll buy one, now there's a good library of games". Just when it looked like things were finally going up for them they get hit with that whole PSN hacking. Everyone, here's the deal with that..I don't know what it costs exactly to develop a a game system but I know this much. PSN could NOT have been cheap to design, implement and maintain. A huge chunk of "PS4 R&D money" had to have gone toward rebuilding and strengthening PSN after that hack. With all those things happening I think they originally had planned on a traditional successor but in the middle of all this the question turned to "What can we do that's a good middle of the road compromise..something between a PS3 and a successor that will be a less risky investment?" Their answer appears to be Vita. They will be heavily pushing/promoting PS3/Vita connectivity, interaction between the two and how you can start a game on Vita, continue on PS3 and vice versa. I also think this due to..well basically PSN 2 on Vita..they're finally implementing features people wanted and streamlining it more. Vita is a less risky answer for now..launch Vita, get it off the ground, engineer PS3/Vita aspects, promote game development for both..and once they're more on their feet and can take a bigger investment that's when I believe PS4 will come..I just don't think it's gonna be for several years. They took way way too hard of a beating this gen. They don't want to exit the industry but at the same time they've gotta be incredibly hesitant to take a mega PS3 level gamble again.

Just my 2 cents. If I end up wrong that's okay but honestly with Sony especially that's what I'm expecting as of right now.
 

DiscoJer

Member
bh7812 said:
Sony: Now for my controversial statement. Watching Sony this gen I had my doubts already if they'd release another home console. With Vita coming however I have a better idea of where I THINK they're going. I do not personally believe they will release another home console-a PS4-anytime soon. Why? With Vita this much is clear..they're heavily pushing Vita/PS3 connectivity and interaction.

The PS2-PSP had that sort of interaction promised as well. Lasted about a year. Granted, it wasn't very seamless, you had to up up the PSP to the PS2 via a cable, but it could be done.

From the obvious lack of their A teams on the Vita, it's clear that it's going to be at best another PSP - mostly an afterthought.

Beyond that, why couldn't the PS4 basically be the PS3, only with 4 gigs of ram and a much better video card? Keep the Cell mostly the same, I guess. While PCs have added more cores to their CPUs, the main jump has really been ram and the GPU s. So why not the same for consoles?
 

FStop7

Banned
Just speculating for a moment... but what would the response here be if the Xbox Next was revealed tomorrow and it turned out to have what would be considered a very modest spec bump vs. the 360. Or maybe even no significant gains at all in the processing and gfx departments. But instead it was much more focused on being a home media center and on the gaming side was far more heavily pushed toward an enhanced Kinect 2.0.

Would that result in meltdowns?
 
FStop7 said:
Just speculating for a moment... but what would the response here be if the Xbox Next was revealed tomorrow and it turned out to have what would be considered a very modest spec bump vs. the 360. Or maybe even no significant gains at all in the processing and gfx departments. But instead it was much more focused on being a home media center and on the gaming side was far more heavily pushed toward an enhanced Kinect 2.0.

Would that result in meltdowns?

people would then cling to Sony as the last savior of console gaming... until Sony announce they're going third party and make Uncharted Kinect for Xbox Next. :p
 
I was too young to get the PS2 on launch, and too pov to get the ps3 at launch, but fuck me if i wont be getting the ps4 the day it comes out. Cannot wait for next gen.
 

Proelite

Member
FStop7 said:
Just speculating for a moment... but what would the response here be if the Xbox Next was revealed tomorrow and it turned out to have what would be considered a very modest spec bump vs. the 360. Or maybe even no significant gains at all in the processing and gfx departments. But instead it was much more focused on being a home media center and on the gaming side was far more heavily pushed toward an enhanced Kinect 2.0.

Would that result in meltdowns?

Well, that's more unlikely that 720 having 4 times the GPU power of 680 GTX for the following reasons.

1. Why release a successor if it's going to be the same as the 360? 360 already has the capability of being a home media center, and they can always release Kinect 2.0 as an accessory.
2. The 720 will utilize the latest version of Directx, and thus will have some baseline hardware that's compatible with the APIs.
3. The successor will be designed to last 10 years, as this is probably the last console generation we will ever see. It'll be nonsensical to waste a console launch on a console that will last basically 0 years.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
DiscoJer said:
Beyond that, why couldn't the PS4 basically be the PS3, only with 4 gigs of ram and a much better video card? Keep the Cell mostly the same, I guess. While PCs have added more cores to their CPUs, the main jump has really been ram and the GPU s. So why not the same for consoles?

this raises an interesting point. Current consoles have very good CPU performance, and they are used for augmenting the GPU in many cases (at least on the PS3). Many PC games are GPU bound, there is no need to buy an i7 for instance, as it won't be used to its optimum - an i5 is plenty.

So maybe they don't have to break their balls on the CPU front, perhaps just a CELLx2 or something.

Unless they use that again to augment the GPU - if they both go for a current high end GPU, could Sony/MS pull clear by using more CPU horsepower?
 
dr_rus said:
There is no PS4 h/w. They may have some target specs and control schemes but it's too early to have even prototype devkits yet.
I disagree with this statement. There should be devkits spread around since developing the actual games takes time. I am betting Sony and MS have sent devkits to all their studios and big publishing partners.
 

ymmv

Banned
DR3AM said:
sony cant afford to release their system last again.

Nope. It cost them dearly in developer support. Just think of the number of games that became 360 exclusives because either the developers didn't have PS3 dev kits, got them too late or pushed back the development of PS3 games because the audience wasn't deemed big enough.

It took almost two years till we got to the current situation where every game gets released on both platforms. (And it took longer till multiplatform PS3 games were on par with the 360's visuals)

Sony *has* to release the next PS4 as close to the next Xbox' release date as possible, else that cycle of pain will begin again. And they also need to improve their relationships with 3rd party publishers and secure more exclusive support than they got this gen.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
It's kind of interesting hearing Kaz Hirai talking about TV and the need to bring content around the TV in that AsiaD talk - and the talk of Apple and Google potentially making bigger plays here.

We've already had speculation about Apple bringing iOS to the TV - and iOS gaming to the living room.

If I was Sony I'd try to get ahead of that and have a two-pronged approach to the living room in the PS4 gen, that pretty much mirrors their handheld approach now. A high end PS4 box/platform for the 50-75m 'core' market, and a low-end, cheap platform that ultimately would be built into as many Sony living room devices as possible - TVs, Blu-ray players, whatever. They already have a candidate platform for the latter.

This way they could still serve their core market with dedicated playstation boxes and handhelds, while on other hand reaching a scale previously unknown to Playstation with cheaper stuff.

Better to disrupt yourself than let Apple or others do it...
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
ymmv said:
Nope. It cost them dearly in developer support. Just think of the number of games that became 360 exclusives because either the developers didn't have PS3 dev kits, got them too late or pushed back the development of PS3 games because the audience wasn't deemed big enough.

It took almost two years till we got to the current situation where every game gets released on both platforms. (And it took longer till multiplatform PS3 games were on par with the 360's visuals)

Sony *has* to release the next PS4 as close to the next Xbox' release date as possible, else that cycle of pain will begin again. And they also need to improve their relationships with 3rd party publishers and secure more exclusive support than they got this gen.


Sony lost momentum this generation. They have to time their release close to the next xbox to avoid MS exploiting their momentum/install base.

Sony launching alongside Xbox 720 with similar pricing, with the same 3rd party games, arguably stronger first party games, and free online would be a much stronger competitor for MS next time around. I can't see MS managing to continue to charge for Live if that happens.
 

Suzzopher

Member
gofreak said:
It's kind of interesting hearing Kaz Hirai talking about TV and the need to bring content around the TV in that AsiaD talk - and the talk of Apple and Google potentially making bigger plays here.

We've already had speculation about Apple bringing iOS to the TV - and iOS gaming to the living room.

If I was Sony I'd try to get ahead of that and have a two-pronged approach to the living room in the PS4 gen, that pretty much mirrors their handheld approach now. A high end PS4 box/platform for the 50-75m 'core' market, and a low-end, cheap platform that ultimately would be built into as many Sony living room devices as possible - TVs, Blu-ray players, whatever. They already have a candidate platform for the latter.

This way they could still serve their core market with dedicated playstation boxes and handhelds, while on other hand reaching a scale previously unknown to Playstation with cheaper stuff.

Better to disrupt yourself than let Apple or others do it...

Agreed. But Sony should have had an iTunes style service for their phones and Walkman back in 2004, but they dropped the ball there too.
 
GraveRobberX said:
I wonder how much money Microsoft would end up paying Sony for each XBoxNext they make, if they use Blu-Ray. [I have no clue on the going rate is, LOL]. Would be funny if they price the PS4 "$__" dollars cheaper and just say they are subsidizing the cheaper cost with XBXN sales.

=D

FYI... MS is making money on every Bluray player sold. Their VC-1 codec is used.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
mrklaw said:
Sony lost momentum this generation. They have to time their release close to the next xbox to avoid MS exploiting their momentum/install base.

Sony launching alongside Xbox 720 with similar pricing, with the same 3rd party games, arguably stronger first party games, and free online would be a much stronger competitor for MS next time around. I can't see MS managing to continue to charge for Live if that happens.

They could manage to still charge for Live if Sony starts charging for PSN 2.0
 

Suzzopher

Member
Combichristoffersen said:
They could manage to still charge for Live if Sony starts charging for PSN 2.0

I think Vita puts a spanner in the works as far as charging for PSN works. If they aren't charging for the more feature complete PSN there, they won't be charging for it on PS4.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Suzzopher said:
I think Vita puts a spanner in the works as far as charging for PSN works. If they aren't charging for the more feature complete PSN there, they won't be charging for it on PS4.

I don't think they'll start charging for PSN, but this is Sony after all, so who knows :p
 

Busty

Banned
Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
They better hope the world economy recovers by 2013. It could even be worse by then instead of better. We could witness two of the poorest launches in recent console history.

This. I honestly don't understand why this isn't discussed more when we talk about the 'next gen' systems.

Everyone I know (from the poor to the well off) is hurting in this current economy climate. Unless the global economy has a radical change in fortune in the next two years NO ONE outside the minority 'hardcore' are going to be willing to buy a new console.

I have a feeling that this transition from PS360 to the next batch off platforms will have plenty of twists and turns compared to previous generational transitions.
 

dr_rus

Member
Beam said:
I disagree with this statement. There should be devkits spread around since developing the actual games takes time. I am betting Sony and MS have sent devkits to all their studios and big publishing partners.
We would already have much more info (rumours at least) on PS4 h/w if that'd be the case.
 

Luckyman

Banned
ymmv said:
Sony *has* to release the next PS4 as close to the next Xbox' release date as possible, else that cycle of pain will begin again. And they also need to improve their relationships with 3rd party publishers and secure more exclusive support than they got this gen.

The ramp up for next-gen will be even slower than last-gen with many of the games still focusing on 360/PS3/WiiU level hardware and just porting to PC/next-gen. PS3 launched 1.5 years later in some parts with nearly no advantages over 360

The exclusive support from 3rd party publishers is going to be nearly zero for any "big" games
 

Rolf NB

Member
bigtroyjon said:
No need to take offense console warrior, it was a joke about Android and had little to do with Sony.
And what a fun joke it was! Ahahahahaah~~~~.

Shikoro said:
GraveRobberX said:
All I want is faster speed on my PS4, please for the love of god 16x+ read speed please ; ;
Impossible...
More like unbearable. Imagine the noise of a 13000+ rpm drive. It'd be even louder than an Xbox 360.
 
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