-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Media Create Sales: Week 51, 2011 (Dec 19 - Dec 25)
- Thread starter Road
- Start date
No joke I had to wiki this emoticon to see what it meant, and I still don't get it.
oh, now i remember playing this game.
Well don't speak for everyone. I am enjoying Vita's collapse.
I bought the original PSP at launch and personally gave it 4/10. A bit before that I had bought the DS Phat at launch and personally thought of it as a 2/10. I bought 2 3DS's at launch and think of them as 4/10.
Why am I enjoying seeing these dreadful the Vita numbers?
- Not because I like/enjoy seeing someone lose their job and not be able to bring Christmas gifts to their children.
- Not because of fanboy wars.
But because:
a - I disagree with corporate mega bonus culture. I.e. How can I make a better accurate prediction then a committee of more then 5 people each earning at least a quarter of a million €; while they also have the added benefit of being able to do a proper market research handled by people who excelled in their respective fields in Uni?
b - Lionel Messi is not just into football for the fun of it. He is in it to win it. Some people are all about winning while others are more about fun through non-competitive means, and that's all good. But I love competition and being right is a win and being wrong is a loss and disappointment. The drug of being right is good. Hello. (Note: If this was about people being killed then I would get on my knees and cry and wish I was wrong).
c - Watching unreasonable people be disappointed is fun. A world of unreasonable people is hell. Disappoints caused when the shit hits the fan is a system by which nature corrects itself, there is no other way.
Because reasonable people can make wrong predictions as well, I suppose you could take out c in some of the most difficult to call for situations.
Also the 3DS is a big disappointment and I hope people stay away until the inevitable redesign.
So, you want almost every product in the world to fall flat.
There has been a lot of discussion about Digital Downloads and their effect on sales over the years. It never ends well.
If that's what you got from what I said then sure.
Let me rephrase that. So, you'll enjoy watching any product fall flat if a large corporation is behind it?
Father_Brain
Banned
"Some Japanese publisher could catch lightning in a bottle again, even though that didn't happen on PS2 or DS and miraculously did on a platform with a far smaller installed base than either" isn't technically false, but it isn't much of an argument either.
So basically because you get a kick out of being right while the other side is wrong? Sounds like typical fanboy war reasons to me.
I was joking with that comment anyways but it would be interesting to get a look at the vita's DD sales at some point. I don't know how its been discussed in the past but I'd definitely like to discuss it in the future if we ever got numbers.
Yes and no.
No because I don't have a strong opinion of every corporate product released. And remember c. Even reasonable people can make a wrong call if the situations is too tight to call.
My answer would be yes if I did have a strong opinion on every corporate product released. My humble pie would then be served to me based what percentage of the time was I wrong.
Hey, that's a fair game if you believe that.
Definitely true. The biggest problem is it's a really dumb idea to buy hardware on nothing but potential. At least 3DS had solid blockbuster titles in the pipeline that you knew were going to be released. If you thought that playing the new pokemon/mario/etc. was worth the entry fee, whenever it comes along in the future, then buying a 3DS made sense. With Vita...eh. A lot of people will undoubtedly end up loving the hell out of it, but there are no guarantees for the mass market of a mega-blockbuster hit down the line. Of course that just exacerbates things because hardware doesn't sell because there's no really popular games, the installed base growth stagnates, developers lose interest due to lack of a larger market, games don't get made, etc. etc.
That said, I'm sure a fair amount of popular games will be released simultaneously on both 3DS and Vita.
Some people really like to compare Vitas performance with PSP and PS3. Let´s recapitulate PSP and PS3
PSP
- released at a time when Sony looked like to be invincible
- 3rd party support from the get-go
- big franchises announced and hinted before releases (even Devil May Cry and KH)
- FF7 prequel befor launch
- games associated with "Playstation" like Tekken, Ace Combat looked like to be locked as exclusives
- a huge amount of compilations, ports, remakes that appealed to different niches (Suikoden1+2, Gradius, Star Ocean1+2, Valkyry Profile... and even Powerstone)
-its direct competitor, NDS, had a pathetic 3rd party support in its first 2 years, with Tamagochi and Love & Berri as highlights
-Capcom catching lightning in a bottle with Monster Hunter
-certain games weren´t possible on it´s competitor due to big hardware limitations
PS3
- direct successor to the PS2
- major 3rd party support from the get-go
- FF13, FF13Versus and MGS4 announced pre PS3 release
- PS3/X360 games were basically exclusive due to Xbox beeing irrelevant in Japan
- big price reduction and a revision
- Wii had never decent 3rd party support in Japan
- Wii 3rd party support non-existant since 2009
- Wii successor already announced and shown, also 1st and 2nd party working on 3ds and WiiU that made Wiis software support even worse
I think it´s obvious that this time some things look quite differently, there aren´t any major announcements for Vita yet and in the same time Nintendo has successfully persuaded publishers for a more relevant 3rd party support from Japan.
PSP
- released at a time when Sony looked like to be invincible
- 3rd party support from the get-go
- big franchises announced and hinted before releases (even Devil May Cry and KH)
- FF7 prequel befor launch
- games associated with "Playstation" like Tekken, Ace Combat looked like to be locked as exclusives
- a huge amount of compilations, ports, remakes that appealed to different niches (Suikoden1+2, Gradius, Star Ocean1+2, Valkyry Profile... and even Powerstone)
-its direct competitor, NDS, had a pathetic 3rd party support in its first 2 years, with Tamagochi and Love & Berri as highlights
-Capcom catching lightning in a bottle with Monster Hunter
-certain games weren´t possible on it´s competitor due to big hardware limitations
PS3
- direct successor to the PS2
- major 3rd party support from the get-go
- FF13, FF13Versus and MGS4 announced pre PS3 release
- PS3/X360 games were basically exclusive due to Xbox beeing irrelevant in Japan
- big price reduction and a revision
- Wii had never decent 3rd party support in Japan
- Wii 3rd party support non-existant since 2009
- Wii successor already announced and shown, also 1st and 2nd party working on 3ds and WiiU that made Wiis software support even worse
I think it´s obvious that this time some things look quite differently, there aren´t any major announcements for Vita yet and in the same time Nintendo has successfully persuaded publishers for a more relevant 3rd party support from Japan.
pieatorium
Member
You forgot the huge pricetag
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Me too. Even though there's a generational gap between them, it's not as obvious as with DS vs. PSP. They also both have at least one analog stick, two if you count the frankenstick, and they both have touchscreens, so on both power and controls there's little reason for third parties not to do both.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
test_account
XP-39C²
I just have to ask, why are you on a gaming forum if you basically want every gaming devices to fail?
Ho ho ho... very funny.
Short circuit in logic and comprehension happens to me also, sometimes.
I'm going to half dignify your silly question with a half silly response:
Because I like to watch the world burn.
Edit: You stealth edited. Hold on, give me a sec.
No that's not what I said at all. I did not say "I have a strong feeling against Sony so I want PSV to fail". And I certainly don't feel that way.
BishopLamont
Banned
Now I see why you laughed at my post the other day. You didn't laugh because I overreacted, rather its because you've turned into such a bitter fanboy.
You use to be cool, what happened?
lol
What are you, 12?
test_account
XP-39C²
I simply dont understand your reasoning on some of the points, sorry. What you said earlier applies to basically every gaming device because they are backed up by huge companies. If you only want some companies to fail, eventhough that the same things apply to pretty much every gaming company, isnt that in "fanboy" territory? But you said earlier that fanboyism wasnt the reason, so i assumed what you said applied to pretty much every gaming company. That is why i had to ask.
EDIT: Yeah, i edited my previous post. But then i saw that you had replied to it, so i changed it back and made a new post instead =)
test_account
XP-39C²
I see. But the reasons you mentioned earlier applies to pretty much every gaming manufacturer. So why do you only have strong feelings against Sony on these points when they apply to other companies as well?
What exactly about what I said strikes you as something a 12 year old might say?
Well I don't think what I said is all that difficult to understand especially in light of this post.
No I don't have it against Sony. Well just read the post and you'll understand where I'm coming from.
Sorry, but...
Merry Christmas!
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
I also think Vita sucks cause Lionel Messi likes to win soccer games
test_account
XP-39C²
That post is over 2 months old, so i didnt remember it
I do understand what you're saying, but since it applies to so many companies, i wanted to ask if you want so many gaming companies to fail and not just Sony. The reasoning i didnt understand is why it should only apply to some companies.I think i understand what you mean. From what i understand, you dont like Sony (in this case at least) because they put money and resources into something that you think would fail. And if they fail, then you were right regarding what you wrote in that post. Is that the only reason why you want the Vita to fail, so what you wrote in that post will be correct?
see:
I realize you said you were being silly. I was half-kidding as well, but it's just one of the most juvenile rationalizations for an opinion that I've ever seen.
That post is over 2 months old, so i didnt remember it
I think i understand what you mean. From what i understand, you dont like Sony (in this case at least) because they put money and resources into something that you think would fail. And if they fail, then you were right regarding what you wrote in that post. Is that the only reason why you want the Vita to fail, so what you wrote in that post will be correct?
I don't want Vita to fail but I expect it to. I even give my own definition of what I think failure is so we don't get too hung up on the etymology of the term "fail".
I am open for potshots
test_account
XP-39C²
Yeah, you didnt directly say that you want it to fail, that is true. But you did say that you enjoyed Vita's collapse though. I understood that as you wanted it to fail.I don't want Vita to fail but I expect it to. I even give my own definition of what I think failure is so we don't get too hung up on the etymology of the term "fail".
I am open for potshots
But if you dont want the Vita to fail, but expect it to based on the reasons you wrote in that older post, that is fair enough. It is still too early to tell though, especially with just 9 days of sales data, so it is too early to say much about Vita's final outcome. But it is of course fine to speculate =)
I am open for potshots
How can you be open to potshots when you deflect with a "if you think that is the way" retort to each question or confrontation? There is a fine line between ruffling feathers for the sake of it and underhanded trolling in a Sales-Age thread. Be careful lest you stumble upon those hot coals.
I don't want Vita to fail but I expect it to. I even give my own definition of what I think failure is so we don't get too hung up on the etymology of the term "fail".
I am open for potshots
Except that you do. Precisely because you expect it to, as being right and watching the disappointment is a drug to you. At least that's exactly what you've said.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
We are talking about Messi in Sales Age now?
Messi without Xavi or Iniesta is lame-o.
Well it's a bit of a slippery slope really. Am I enjoying a product fail or am I enjoying being right on a matter which I felt was far too obvious? Am I hating on Sony or am I enjoying watching nature correct itself in regards unreasonable people? For example, nobody can be happy about those sales no matter how much awesome the future holds for Vita.
If there was a blank slate and Vita hadn't been announced until now, I'd be looking forward to news on it just like anyone. But Vita is no longer a blank slate but an amalgamation of what I feel are bad corporate decisions. And although it's too early to call, the market nevertheless, so far, seems to agree.
You're making more sense now.
Stop complaining and give me something I can't deflect
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
I think many people are failing to see the big elephant in the room here.
3DS and VITA have similar performances, both handhelds are aiming for the exact same market (it was different between PS3/Wii or PSP/DS, that's why PS3 and PSP had space to grow) and one handheld has grabbed all of the relevant 3rd party exclusives.
There is no game on VITA that is not possible on the 3DS, hell, the most high end 3rd party exclusives on PSP are all 3DS exclusives now. It's a myth that the VITA is capable of more high end hardcore(lol) experiences, and some people here need to understand this.
So you say the VITA needs a killer app, but the problem this time is that this killer game NECESSARILY needs to come from Sony themselves, because if it comes from a 3rd party, it can also come to the 3DS, there's no reason not to and there's no moneyhat from Sony Nintendo can't match. And no, that big game won't come from Atlus (lol).
Unless Sony can't come with a big new franchise on VITA (and they failed completely on the PS3/PSP generation, trying with their biggest teams), then I'm sorry but the VITA is dead, there's no reason to buy it. There is no 3rd party game that will save the handheld, because it can be ported at ANY time to the 3DS.
Some people are hoping COD VITA will save it on the west, but those people don't realize that the 3DS will get the EXACT SAME GAME in 3D and with much better controls (Circle Pad Pro has four triggers, and resistive touchscreen is MUCH, MUCH better for games than capacitive, and you don't put an ugly thumb in front of your games). The DS had four COD games, the PSP had only one, and that was before COD exploded, that means Activision WILL support the best selling handheld, there's absolutely no reason to think 3DS will not receive it's own COD.
The problem was made by Sony themselves, they released a similar platform a year later, they thought it was different enough, and they thought the mountain of games would translate automatically. In the end the VITA is a boring handheld, it doesn't have any exciting thing about it for real people, it doesn't do anything new (the back touchscreen must be the worst last minute addition to any handheld ever, it doesn't work as R/L 2/3 replacement (I'm sure that's the reason it's there) and it just get in the way) and had virtually no R&D money thrown, as someone said, they picked a PSP and changed the interiors with standard components, put some real analog sticks, gyros, capacitive touchscreen a back touchscreen and called it a day.
Their PS4 strategy will also backfire if they don't hurry up, because even though on paper that console may be much better (like the VITA vs 3DS), the difference will not be big and whoever wins the support early on will have an outstanding advantage. I'm sure MSFT is rushing the Xbox 720 development so it can launch 2012/early 2013.
The strategy of launching a year later WILL NOT WORK because this time the now VERY RELEVANT Nintendo will go for the PS3 market, there will be a direct competition with third parties porting over EVERYTHING and if Sony doesn't realize this and doesn't secure some support and HEAVILY work on their first party games (because they have effectively failed on this regard, Sony first party IS lacking), the PS4 may be the last Playstation.
3DS and VITA have similar performances, both handhelds are aiming for the exact same market (it was different between PS3/Wii or PSP/DS, that's why PS3 and PSP had space to grow) and one handheld has grabbed all of the relevant 3rd party exclusives.
There is no game on VITA that is not possible on the 3DS, hell, the most high end 3rd party exclusives on PSP are all 3DS exclusives now. It's a myth that the VITA is capable of more high end hardcore(lol) experiences, and some people here need to understand this.
So you say the VITA needs a killer app, but the problem this time is that this killer game NECESSARILY needs to come from Sony themselves, because if it comes from a 3rd party, it can also come to the 3DS, there's no reason not to and there's no moneyhat from Sony Nintendo can't match. And no, that big game won't come from Atlus (lol).
Unless Sony can't come with a big new franchise on VITA (and they failed completely on the PS3/PSP generation, trying with their biggest teams), then I'm sorry but the VITA is dead, there's no reason to buy it. There is no 3rd party game that will save the handheld, because it can be ported at ANY time to the 3DS.
Some people are hoping COD VITA will save it on the west, but those people don't realize that the 3DS will get the EXACT SAME GAME in 3D and with much better controls (Circle Pad Pro has four triggers, and resistive touchscreen is MUCH, MUCH better for games than capacitive, and you don't put an ugly thumb in front of your games). The DS had four COD games, the PSP had only one, and that was before COD exploded, that means Activision WILL support the best selling handheld, there's absolutely no reason to think 3DS will not receive it's own COD.
The problem was made by Sony themselves, they released a similar platform a year later, they thought it was different enough, and they thought the mountain of games would translate automatically. In the end the VITA is a boring handheld, it doesn't have any exciting thing about it for real people, it doesn't do anything new (the back touchscreen must be the worst last minute addition to any handheld ever, it doesn't work as R/L 2/3 replacement (I'm sure that's the reason it's there) and it just get in the way) and had virtually no R&D money thrown, as someone said, they picked a PSP and changed the interiors with standard components, put some real analog sticks, gyros, capacitive touchscreen a back touchscreen and called it a day.
Their PS4 strategy will also backfire if they don't hurry up, because even though on paper that console may be much better (like the VITA vs 3DS), the difference will not be big and whoever wins the support early on will have an outstanding advantage. I'm sure MSFT is rushing the Xbox 720 development so it can launch 2012/early 2013.
The strategy of launching a year later WILL NOT WORK because this time the now VERY RELEVANT Nintendo will go for the PS3 market, there will be a direct competition with third parties porting over EVERYTHING and if Sony doesn't realize this and doesn't secure some support and HEAVILY work on their first party games (because they have effectively failed on this regard, Sony first party IS lacking), the PS4 may be the last Playstation.
Huh... ok, I guess?
This, right here, is the post of doom. The Vita is dead because it can't do anything that the 3DS can't do and the PS4 is to be the last PlayStation. Okay.
Since Father_Brain seems to be arguing heavily against any optimistic posts re. Vita (and has been as long as I can remember...even before the thing was announced!), I've gotta ask - what is his own prediction for Vita?
The suggestion seems to be that he thinks it's a dead system - since he seems to react to anyone who urges caution on that on any level - but he's dancing around actually coming out and saying that explicitly. So is that actually your prediction, Father_Brain?
The suggestion seems to be that he thinks it's a dead system - since he seems to react to anyone who urges caution on that on any level - but he's dancing around actually coming out and saying that explicitly. So is that actually your prediction, Father_Brain?
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
If there isn't some sort of first party miracle, yes I expect doom and I'm on board of the doom train.
And if Sony keep being stupid with the PS4, then I'll ride that train again.
Be sure to reserve a seat. This thread is like 'all aboard'.
WOWLOL!
You're so terribly biased it looks like a joke post.
As true as is the fact that Vita is theorically dead for the next year and it will NEED hugely popular new or existing ip to come back (plus a price cut), this is just ridiculous to ignore its differences with the 3ds.
3DS being better for fps with the extension wat ?? Resitive touch screen being better wat ? That's certainly why we had so many awesome fps on nds.... As dead as Vita is right now, you can be sure certain game genres will shine a lot more on it at some point.
Paracelsus
Member
manueldelalas: multiplatform development kept PS3 afloat when it was basically a dead platform. If publishers thought it was worth to port their games on exotic, expensive-to-work-with hardware that was NOT selling then it is pretty much safe to assume that everything but the bigger projects (the ones that Nintendo absolutely does not want to let go) have a shot at going to PSV later down the road. Not to say it is gonna happen but it can happen.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
This is highly inaccurate, first, the Xbox 360 was DOA in Japan, so most japanese games went to the PS3, if you wanted japanese gaming, you needed a PS3. Many japanese games were ported to the 360, but the PS3 was the only HD console alive in Japan, that underserved market was Sony's and Sony's alone. Now that won't happen, because Nintendo is fighting for the same market.
Publishers ported their games because they were relatively cheap and easy to port, and that's the same thing that will happen next generation, but with the three consoles.
You are also forgetting that the PS3 HAD big support from the start, much bigger support than the Wii and Xbox 360, because it was the successor of the PS2. At launch people thought GTA, Guitar Hero and Final Fantasy would remain exclusive to the PS3. Now, there is no assurance of any relevant third party exclusive for any platform, except in Japan that Nintendo has managed to lock MH and DQ (even if they are not exclusive down the road, we EXPECT them to be exclusive now).
Yes, just like the Wonderswan, NGP Color, Nomad, etc etc.
You keep waiting for magic game XX to save the platform, but the fact that that game doesn't exist, and if it comes from a third party (because Sony first party efforts are atrocious from a sales point) then there is no reason why that game couldn't be ported to the 3DS. The performances are extremely similar, and we have to start from that point; and all of the high end japanese franchises are on 3DS.
I don't even think that the VITA exclusive lineup is better than the Gamegear's one in it's time.
I'm not a fanboy. But I'm waiting for RE Revelation to port to VITA just so I can play the game on better and bigger screen. If the same game can release on both machine, I would see VITA has more Pros than Cons.