edgefusion
Member
Didn't Ryan Davis discount Bayonetta as GOTY because of the broken PS3 version? Kind of makes you wonder why he didn't do the same with Skyrim.
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Digital Foundry VS Bethesda: PS3 Skyrim is still shit
- Thread starter AgentOtaku
- Start date
Didn't Ryan Davis discount Bayonetta as GOTY because of the broken PS3 version? Kind of makes you wonder why he didn't do the same with Skyrim.
RedNumberFive
Banned
I haven't watched / listened to all of the Giant Bomb GOTY coverage, but Jeff clearly stated that it's inclusion in his top 10 was for ONLY the PC and 360 versions. Brad, of course, was too in love to bother a mention. I can't speak for the rest.
On day one they indicated exactly what platforms the review applied to. They mentioned issues on the podcast and on the website once they were discovered.
pslayer666
Member
RedNumberFive
Banned
Yup, a rancid cherry on the pile of shit that is the PS3 version.
That's fine. Considering you've been a long time fan, didn't you know this could be a possibility? Not that it should make you feel any better, but this happens to some players every go around. That's what I was trying to convey in my first post, the problems exist, but it's far from an inevitability or particular to this version of the game considering the track record.
Common to Bethesda games, regardless of hardware. That's why I said it was to a "Bethesda standard", which admittedly sucks. You have to define "a significant portion of consumers" because anyone following Elder Scroll games or Bethesda games in general knows that they have these problems. But this is not typical, ps3 owner of Skyrim or xbox owner of Morrowind, and that was my larger point.
I know, right? Playing through Skyrim without a horsey was a living hell and there was that one time I wanted to buy up all the ebony ignots in Skyrim. But, guess what! I couldn't fast travel to every blacksmith in a row because it was really struggling
I was able to get the Platinum trophy and put 151hrs into the game and the framerate only got stuttery in the last 10hrs loading was taking a lot longer but turned off save on travel and it improved the load times by quite a bit, the game locked up 4 times with the last 3 times being within the last 5 hrs of my total playtime and my save file ended up being 13MB.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Just something I doodled up.
Shameless PR! YES!
Shameless PR! YES!
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Attention PC/console players
I posted it in the performance thread but was looking for answers to see if the quest is broken on consoles too. Maybe at least this will be a warning sign for some incase they try and kill the dragon on that mountain in particular.
Please PM or post about it in the PC tech thread to confirm with me. Even if you're on console. I just want to see if it's a widespread issue or just broken on PC (the quest).
I posted it in the performance thread but was looking for answers to see if the quest is broken on consoles too. Maybe at least this will be a warning sign for some incase they try and kill the dragon on that mountain in particular.
Please PM or post about it in the PC tech thread to confirm with me. Even if you're on console. I just want to see if it's a widespread issue or just broken on PC (the quest).
The latest 92MB patch (my EU version calls it 2.01 but i see people talking about 1.2 and 1.3 etc... not sure ifit's a different version in different territories) has definitely helped, it plays better than New Vegas now; I've put over 100 hours each into Oblivion / FO3 / NV (more on other platforms) and after the most recent patch I'd say it runs on a par with Oblivion now although they've obviously done something to the distant textures when roaming the overworld.
rainking187
Member
My game crashed in the opening sequence. It consistently crashes every half hour or so. If I warp twice it becomes unplayably slow.
CadetMahoney
Member
This. Look at their track history with other games and the PS3. I don't see the PS3 version getting fixed at all.
Truespeed
Member
This is the US cover of the January issue. They reviewed Skyrim and gave it a perfect 10 and also bestowed upon it the prestigious Gold Award. It's hard to believe they actually played the game for any length of time because you would think they would have mentioned the numerous performance problems the PS3 version is riddled with. Ignorance must truly be bliss to not have noticed any performance problems.
What upsets me most about the review is how extremely positive and enthusiastic it is. It's the type of review that makes you order the game right after reading it. I thought I was reading an ad from Bethesda at times. The copy could have come directly from them considering how lavishly the reviewer praised the game.
Reviews are supposed to help your customers make purchasing decisions. Clearly, this spineless magazine was serving a different customer.
What upsets me most about the review is how extremely positive and enthusiastic it is. It's the type of review that makes you order the game right after reading it. I thought I was reading an ad from Bethesda at times. The copy could have come directly from them considering how lavishly the reviewer praised the game.
Reviews are supposed to help your customers make purchasing decisions. Clearly, this spineless magazine was serving a different customer.
pslayer666
Member
Being a kinda trophy whore, if I invested 100 + hours in a game and then said game didn't reward me with that plat, I would be fucking furious.
Are they going to do anything about this?
Everyday that passes by and I read this thread, I lose more and more respect for them.
Even trivial shit like this, they can't get right. Amazing
Just something I doodled up.
Shameless PR! YES!
What free DLC? They didn't do shit to make up for it, that's why they got sued.
But I am surpised nobody's taken action against Bethesda on PS3 Skyrim yet.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Okay. But you do realize that this isn't some game we don't like, right? It's an issue with the company itself and what they think they can get away with.
Talking about an issue brings it exposure.
As I remember they didn't offer any free DLC, they just offered day 1 DLC you had to still purchase, instead of waiting a week or a month on X360 and PC, so I don't see how that applies. Also didn't they start offering the free game they promised after people complained enough to remind them that what you promise you have to deliver?
Btw, I'm so glad I didn't buy this game for my PS3. I wanted to get it but waited because I was getting a new PC, then the new PC came late so I waited some more and learned about all the problems the game had on PS3 and the various bugs on PC.
So in the end, I'm just not gonna buy it at all, not for my PS3 nor for my PC, because Bethesda doesn't deserve a reward for a shoddy programming work.
fabricated backlash
Member
But companies are people, so you could call that a character flaw.
This is the US cover of the January issue. They reviewed Skyrim and gave it a perfect 10 and also bestowed upon it the prestigious Gold Award. It's hard to believe they actually played the game for any length of time because you would think they would have mentioned the numerous performance problems the PS3 version is riddled with. Ignorance must truly be bliss to not have noticed any performance problems.
What upsets me most about the review is how extremely positive and enthusiastic it is. It's the type of review that makes you order the game right after reading it. I thought I was reading an ad from Bethesda at times. The copy could have come directly from them considering how lavishly the reviewer praised the game.
Reviews are supposed to help your customers make purchasing decisions. Clearly, this spineless magazine was serving a different customer.
How in the hell could the UK division of this magazine be on a totally different page here?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57479642@N05/6629496559/
Synless
Member
Yeah, and bringing it to court gets it fixed. I'll come back here in a month or two to see how much talking about it on forums has helped you all out. Because that helped you all out with Fallout: NV right?
How in the hell could the UK division of this magazine be on a totally different page here?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57479642@N05/6629496559/
Check cleared? Played the game for 8 hours and wrote the review?
SolidSnakex
Member
Was there any mention of the issues in the review or anywhere else in the magazine? With it just coming out i'd assume that they'd have to have knowledge of the problems before that issue was finished. It'll be interesting to see how many magazines even cover it. The new Game Informer should be out soon, but I don't expect to see anything in there since they've barely covered it on their website.
Philthy
Member
It's sad, but I think this is how every web site, tv show, and everyone else is doing this. Any site that even considered giving this game any sort of good review without mentioning that the PS3 version is basically broken went on my black list. Which is about 99% of the gaming sites out there. Get paid, write awesome review. Never mind the game doesn't actually work.
I bet a lot of major web sites reviewed it on 360 and called it the 360/PS3 review.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Game Informer is getting so many big exclusives these days... don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Custompc mag, UK. (The editor turned down the offer apparently).
This shit happens all the time. Never underestimate the power of pretty girls and freebies.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
The review clearly stated he played for at least 40 hours for that review. It could very well be that the OPMUS guy didn't have the issues either. It's not entirely impossible.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
The question is: Will Bethesda own-up to its discerning decision of releasing an unpolished version of the game by organizing a recall of the product?
I hope they do, many people put their faith in this company, and it has let them down.
I hope they do, many people put their faith in this company, and it has let them down.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
There will never be a recall... that's a pipe dream. And they wont admit they knowingly misled customers. They won't even come close to that.
They are in 100% damage control mode... they'll only address the things they're forced to. And even then it will be by downplaying complaints/issues.
Stalling and downplaying. That's it. You will not get an apology or anything of the sort. And we probably won't get a real fix either.
Why should they? They got their money, the industry gave them a pass (awards), and now they just have to make their DLC.
DLC that will no doubt fuck the PS3 version ever worse. And they'll still release it, count their money, and not give a fuck how bad it breaks an already broken PS3 version. The only thing we'll get from this company is insult to injury. It was their last big game on PS3 and they got their money. So fuck you and everyone else. See you next gen suckers!
mjemirzian
Banned
Remember that Bethesda routinely does things like release GOTY versions of their games with no support or updates. Fallout 3 GOTY for PC? No Vista support, despite Vista having been released by then. I had to dual boot into XP just to play it because it had no end of problems with Vista drivers. Fallout 3 GOTY on PS3? Just as broken, if not more so than Skyrim PS3, and never patched. Pretty sure the 360 version was messed up too somehow. I have to credit them for the very telling link on their web site, though.
This game's a disaster and we just don't give a fuck!
They are kind of between a rock and a hard place with PS3 Skyrim, though. Trying to cram a failbryo engine game loaded up with content far beyond its breaking point into a custom architecture like the PS3 is just asking for trouble.
This game's a disaster and we just don't give a fuck!
They are kind of between a rock and a hard place with PS3 Skyrim, though. Trying to cram a failbryo engine game loaded up with content far beyond its breaking point into a custom architecture like the PS3 is just asking for trouble.
Or they played the 360 version in full and then only a small section of the PS3 version just to make sure. The game breaking slow frame rates will only surface after more than 70 hours of playtime. I don't think most reviewers will even play the 360 version that long, because they have deadlines to meet.
gutterboy44
Member
Put in a session last night after taking a break during the holidays.
1.5 hour play session (9.5mb save, 95+hours, SSD installed)
-Two black screen crashes
-Bookshelves no longer work
-On screen quest markers disappear randomly
-Whiterun (and most other cities) has constant low FPS
Ahhh, what a quality game
1.5 hour play session (9.5mb save, 95+hours, SSD installed)
-Two black screen crashes
-Bookshelves no longer work
-On screen quest markers disappear randomly
-Whiterun (and most other cities) has constant low FPS
Ahhh, what a quality game
divisionbyzorro
Member
Correct.
The game simply shouldn't have come out on PS3. Their engine simply can't run on that platform. But they wanted more money, so of course they ported and sold it there too.
that´s probably right.. But that is just another proof of bethesda´s arrogance towards their userbase. They simply will not try to make a decent engine that can run on multiple platforms, they just make it run on one and port it to the others.. Infinity Ward made their engine work on multiple platform, Rockstar made their engines work on multiple platforms etc. Granted there was small differences in the graphics and performance department, but the games still ran fine .. they did not have game breaking issues like Skyrim, New Vegas, Fallout 3 GOTY.
My PS3 copy of Skyrim (which i got as an early christmas present from my mom on the 20/11-2011) still sits on a desk at home, waiting for me to put it in my PS3. But I just cannot muster the energy to go through this game with all the Problems still being around .. I still hope that bethesda somehow comes through and manages to patch the game so that it will not enter below 10 FPS-hell..
Unacceptable.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I would argue that a developer is under no obligation to bring their game to all platforms.
I would also argue that comparing these games to IW games is just silly. Comparing them to GTA games is a less silly argument, but those games don't have nearly the character interaction and dynamic object count that Bethesda games do. Skyrim is multiple orders of magnitude more complex than any Rockstar game has ever been.
But the developer is under an obligation to not release a fundamentally broken game on a platform, especially when the issue is deep in the engine layer and cannot be fixed. It's one thing to release it with some broken quests that you know you can easily patchfix, but if your engine can't handle the game on a platform, don't release it.
I think you misunderstood me... I never said that Bethesda was forced to make a PS3 version. That was a choice they made. And it was the wrong choice given the way they did it. bethesda made the engine for the X360 first, and had another team (or the same guys) porting that engine to PS3.
I threw in IW and Rockstar just as examples of other game studios doing it the right way. They where not porting anything, they made the engines for all consoles at once, so that they did not have to port anything. that way they avoided pitfalls like the one Bethesda walked into.
Had bethesda bothered to program this "new" engine to the PS3 instead of Porting it, then they would not have had the "memory-problem" we are seeing now....
I threw in IW and Rockstar just as examples of other game studios doing it the right way. They where not porting anything, they made the engines for all consoles at once, so that they did not have to port anything. that way they avoided pitfalls like the one Bethesda walked into.
Had bethesda bothered to program this "new" engine to the PS3 instead of Porting it, then they would not have had the "memory-problem" we are seeing now....
divisionbyzorro
Member
Possibly. Not necessarily, however. If your fundamental problem with a platform is that you don't have enough open memory to work with (remember, the PS3's split memory pool means that Skyrim can only use 256 MB of memory to process actors and objects; the other 256 MB is dedicated to graphics), there's only so much you can do outside of scaling back.
Of course, would that necessarily be bad? Maybe not. Is the game better off for remembering where every meaningless object in the world is? Yes, it's cool that I can gather up every single goblet in the world and put it in my house. But if the tradeoff for making the game run smoother (or work at all on PS3) was to not make this possible, maybe it would be worth it.
Of course, as a software developer myself, I find it amazing that these games are running on systems with 512 MB of memory in the first place. I find it even more amazing that games can run on the PS3's split memory pool and look as damn good as they do. And when you consider that Skyrim is attempting to simulate the actions of dozens to possibly hundreds of actors in the background of your game, it's amazing that it can run at all. Not that this excuses releasing a broken game, but it's still quite the achievement.
Going by their track record, not a chance in hell. The only thing that's for sure is I'll never buy another one of their broken games again. I'm mad and I have the PC version for how many problems it has, let alone the PS3 gamers and what they're dealing with.
This also helped expose all the corrupt media outlets out there. No one needs anymore proof about the validity and intentions of the advertising extension sites out there.
IF they had programmed the engine on the PS3, then they would have used another function for the memory situation. But because they programmed it on a system with 512mb for free usage, then ported it to a system with less memory for a game to use. This would have been fine for any game that does not use the memory that much, but for Skyrim they programmed it so that the X360 memory pool was used to the fullest, and once again neglected to change that when they ported it to the PS3.
If they had programmed the engine on the ps3, they could have made the same world function fine, just by using some other form of memory (HDD, less ram whatever, it is possible) instead of only relying on the 256mb available for the game..
It´s just a lazy job from Bethesda, when they seem to make the same stupid memory mistake in all their PS3 games..
If they had programmed the engine on the ps3, they could have made the same world function fine, just by using some other form of memory (HDD, less ram whatever, it is possible) instead of only relying on the 256mb available for the game..
It´s just a lazy job from Bethesda, when they seem to make the same stupid memory mistake in all their PS3 games..
You seem very certain about their coding and implementation practices.
My wife and I are still playing a ton of Skyrim on PS3 (she's level 40 something, I'm close to 40), we've both put many scores of hours in, and we're still having a great time. It may be just about to get real bad, but so far it's still very playable.
I certainly hope and expect Bethesda to improve things on the PS3, but I'm glad to have had the game for the last month and a half or so, bugs and all.
The other 256MB of XDRAM can still be used for other things rather than just graphics. Bethesda simply just were too incompetent to properly utilize it (especially ironic since the previous version of Gamebryo still functions better than their "brand new" Creation engine), and that shouldn't be happening in 2011.
jim-jam bongs
Member
This is actually not the case, which is what Hanmik is getting at. I've not written anything for the PS3, but Truespeed mentioned a technique earlier in the thread which is specifically used by PS3 devs to get access to the leftover GPU memory.