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[wolfmat]

Yep, the people hoping great justice will be served at the games release will probably be very disappointed

It's not always about seeing people crash and burn because they're not perfect role models. I'm not buying his game because I don't like his ridiculous behavior, and because I've got enough games to choose from to make decisions on that level. Doesn't mean I'm not aware of the fact that it should sell very well under the circumstances.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Okay, let's not go overboard here. Fish doesn't actually need to have his game not published because of this. He still made a legit game with other dudes, why would you get Microsoft on the case? Jesus.

I mean, sure, he could've played it cool and didn't, but his game has some merit on its own, surely. You can choose for yourself to not buy the game, but don't fuck up his business.

Saying "suck my dick" on Twitter shouldn't break your neck like that. He's a real human being after all. He's drowning in debt because of his passion. Do you want to see him land on the street?

I hope Microsoft ignores this.

I kind of do, yeah. Maybe not that far, but I think he deserves some kind of punishment for his behaviour. That's how human society works. Don't enable people when they act in an unacceptable manner. There needs to be consequences.

Some of you dudes are taking Phil Fish way too seriously. He's the ultimate joke character/troll on twitter and if you had been reading his tweets before GDC, you'd know this. I'm not pretending to know Phil in real life, but as a twitter follower of his for a while now, I do know that he's very, very sarcastic.

The guy gets so much shit just for wanting to make a great game.

Yes. That's all that's happening here. He just wants to make a great game against all odds.

 

[jay]

The guy gets so much shit just for wanting to make a great game.

I think a lot of the shit he gets stems from him telling a Japanese developer that Japanese games suck during this year's GDC.

 

[soultron]

I'm not sure how being a joke character / troll gives anyone the right to act like he did. The way he acts has absolutely nothing to do with trolling.

There's a place and a time for trolling and making jokes. Teating someone like that in front of a huge crowd is neither the right place nor the right time.

I definitely think Inafune's bits on the ailing state of Japanese games is a much more eloquent and respectful way of saying what Phil Fish said in one sentence, that's for sure. Maybe if Phil had chosen to do a talk on why exactly "Japanese games suck," it would've been a better choice for him. The man is brash and doesn't really have a bullshit filter though. That's what makes him so entertaining, in my opinion.

I'd never act like the guy, that's for sure. But I find some of his sarcastic stuff on twitter to be hilarious.

 

[JuxJuxJux]

Like, design a video game?

This.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Yeah. That's why I don't like comparing what he did to other known artists. Why can't we just look at what he did? We don't have to examine Hollywood to understand how we should react. Why do people have to say someone shouldn't be upset because Polanski was famous, or someone should be upset because Brown was shamed?

There's no applicable direct situation that's just like this - and even then comparing his actions assumes the people in this thread or individuals themselves had a certain reaction to your example... otherwise the example is pointless. Some people don't/didn't care about Brown - or even know about him. Same with von Trier or Polanski.

There's no overarching sentient Gaf that knows all, and acts the same. So giving out random examples and telling people they are being hypocrites (either for supporting his comments/not caring/or being against his comments) is not going to help this discussion at all.

We should focus on what he said and did, and we shouldn't have to depend on other social examples to gauge our feelings. That said, if you want to; fine. I just don't think it will lead anywhere.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

This.

Actually, I was replying to you.

 

[Kinyou]

I'm not going to judge people on their actions, I'm going to judge people on how good their games are

wait, that sounds weird.

 

[shuri]

Anyone knows who was the 'japanese dev'?

I'm starting to think that this was a stunt to promote that Indie dev movie they are shooting..

What if the entire thing was staged?

 

[canedaddy]

I definitely think Inafune's bits on the ailing state of Japanese games is a much more eloquent and respectful way of saying what Phil Fish said in one sentence, that's for sure. Maybe if Phil had chosen to do a talk on why exactly "Japanese games suck," it would've been a better choice for him. The man is brash and doesn't really have a bullshit filter though. That's what makes him so entertaining, in my opinion.

I'd never act like the guy, that's for sure. But I find some of his sarcastic stuff on twitter to be hilarious.

It's not a bullshit filter he lacks, it's a don't-be-an-asshole filter. I can't imagine anyone out of elementary school finding it hilarious to hear someone say "suck my dick" or "you suck lol"... guy comes across as very stupid in addition to the rudeness.

 

[Zoe]

This.

Where can we play it?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yeah. That's why I don't like comparing what he did to other known artists. Why can't we just look at what he did? We don't have to examine Hollywood to understand how we should react. Why do people have to say someone shouldn't be upset because Polanski was famous, or someone should be upset because Brown was shamed?

There's no applicable direct situation that's just like this - and even then comparing his actions assumes the people in this thread or individuals themselves had a certain reaction to your example... otherwise the example is pointless. Some people don't/didn't care about Brown - or even know about him. Same with von Trier or Polanski.

There's no overarching sentient Gaf that knows all, and acts the same. So giving out random examples and telling people they are being hypocrites (either for supporting his comments/not caring/or being against his comments) is not going to help this discussion at all.

We should focus on what he said and did, and we shouldn't have to depend on other social examples to gauge our feelings. That said, if you want to; fine. I just don't think it will lead anywhere.

Or maybe it's just those people did physical harm to someone and this dude just (rudely) stated his opinion.

But then, someone did just call for Fish to get ass kicked to learn some manners so, hey, maybe it's all the same!*

*It is in no way all the same.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Some of you dudes are taking Phil Fish way too seriously. He's the ultimate joke character/troll on twitter and if you had been reading his tweets before GDC, you'd know this. I'm not pretending to know Phil in real life, but as a twitter follower of his for a while now, I do know that he's very, very sarcastic.

The guy gets so much shit just for wanting to make a great game.

It's not a bullshit filter he lacks, it's a don't-be-an-asshole filter. I can't imagine anyone out of elementary school finding it hilarious to hear someone say "suck my dick" or "you suck lol"... guy comes across as very stupid in addition to the rudeness.

You're in for a surprise, man.

A lot of people out there are really stupid and immature.

 

[Clear]

The guy gets so much shit just for wanting to make a great game.

No, he's getting shit for acting like an obnoxious douchebag.

Not really a smart move for someone who's associating himself so personally and publicly with his game.

Not all publicity is good publicity, and people have long memories. Fez may well turn-out great, but unless that's planned as his entire career in game development, he'd be advised to turn it down a notch or three.

Bragging about his IGF win on Twitter isn't going to win him any new friends in the Indie community for sure,

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Or maybe it's just those people did physical harm to someone and this dude just (rudely) stated his opinion.

But then, someone did just call for Fish to get ass kicked to learn some manners so, hey, maybe it's all the same!*

*It is in no way all the same.

I think my point went over your head.

 

[spirity]

You can't take the ramblings of anonymous forumites in Japan and compare them to what this guy did.

Besides, certain western games do pretty well in Japan, so it's not like the whole country hates them.

Ah, so its not a sentiment shared by Japanese developers? They like western games?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I think my point went over your head.

Sorry. I should have started with "And" not "Or". I understood your point.

 

[Yamibito]

This thread is approaching carnival of stupid levels of dumb.

 

[Zoramon089]

which is why Phil Fish is smart. all y'all are doing is giving him free publicity. I've seen more Fez talk in the past few days than I've seen since it started development. Lump in the IGF award and the fact that everyone loves it (pre- and post- Japan comment)....I have a feeling mr. fish is gonna rake it in on this one.

*Rolls eyes*
I always feel people who claim bs like "free publicity" and "no such thing as bad publicity" are those incapable of actually realizing how stupid that is...Yeah, GoDaddy's publicity over supporting SOPA really went over well for them, right?

 

[snap0212]

This thread is approaching carnival of stupid levels of dumb.

Oh, the next guy who just posts that he has a problem with something but doesn't want to elaborate on what his problem actually is.

Why even post if you don't want to participate in the discussion in any way?

 

[JuxJuxJux]

Actually, I was replying to you.

And I'm agreeing with you. Phil should design a game that offers a counter to Japanese game design if it "sucks." I'm not sure FEZ is that game, but maybe it is.

 

[soultron]

No, he's getting shit for acting like an obnoxious douchebag.

I feel like other angry indie devs coming down on him for faults of the IGF and hating on him gave him the exterior he has today.

 

[djtiesto]

Ah, so its not a sentiment shared by Japanese developers? They like western games?

Lots of Japanese developers play western games... and not the indie/obscure stuff, it's the high-budget blockbuster stuff too. Ueda has raved about Half Life 2 and Yuji Horii got the idea for DQ9's quest system from Oblivion.

I don't think the Japanese gaming populace plays nearly as many western games as the devs though, with a few exceptions.

 

[Seraphinianus]

*Rolls eyes*
I always feel people who claim bs like "free publicity" and "no such thing as bad publicity" are those incapable of actually realizing how stupid that is...Yeah, GoDaddy's publicity over supporting SOPA really went over well for them, right?

oh yeah, totally apples and apples right there.


I'm so stupid, I should've taken that one unique example over all the other times where the opposite happened.

 

[spirity]

Lots of Japanese developers play western games... and not the indie/obscure stuff, it's the high-budget blockbuster stuff too. Ueda has raved about Half Life 2 and Yuji Horii got the idea for DQ9's quest system from Oblivion.

I don't think the Japanese gaming populace plays nearly as many western games as the devs though, with a few exceptions.

Thanks for the insight, I really didn't know.

 

[Zoe]

I feel like other angry indie devs coming down on him for faults of the IGF and hating on him gave him the exterior he has today.

Hasn't he been an ass long before this?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

And I'm agreeing with you. Phil should design a game that offers a counter to Japanese game design if it "sucks." I'm not sure FEZ is that game, but maybe it is.

That's what he's doing. Whether or not is succeeds in the eyes of an audience is kind of unrelated. Opinions and beliefs are what drive people to do things.

a) He thinks contemporary Japanese Game Design sucks.
b) He designed a game himself.

To him, that's his response. Whatever anyone else thinks about it, that's his personal response to that thought, just like him saying it in the first place is his personal opinion.

 

[Zia]

Phil's words weren't misconstrued. Neither were von Trier's. Phil made a blanket statement for a variety of reasons he's prattled on about at length, which could be overlooked, but it was how he said it, and the environment in which he said it in. No matter what real world setting you deem people to be in, it was still an outrageously pretentious way to voice his thoughts. He's not adding to an industry with that attitude. If he sees something as a problem, why not offer a solution?

Here's an interesting piece you should read regarding the von Trier dustup, if you're truly interested. I think most reasonable people know von Trier, like Phil Fish, isn't actually evil, merely an asshole. These are socially maladjusted, inarticulate people, not villains. And anyway, I was responding to the absurd, Marvel Comics' "What If... ?" presented by the poster I responded to. This thread is full of them. It's Fox News outrage discourse of the highest order, with few people taking the time to Google to find a transcript of the GDC panel in question, look at a sampling of Fish's Twitter posts to see what kind of character he is or even figure out that he isn't the programmer on Fez, Renaud Bédard is.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Here's an interesting piece you should read regarding the von Trier dustup, if you're truly interested. I think most reasonable people know von Trier, like Phil Fish, isn't actually evil, merely an asshole. These are socially maladjusted, inarticulate people, not villains. And anyway, I was responding to the absurd, Marvel Comics' "What If... ?" presented by the poster I responded to. This thread is full of them. It's Fox News outrage discourse of the highest order, with few people taking the time to Google to find a transcript of the GDC panel in question, look at a sampling of Fish's Twitter posts to see what kind of character he is or even figure out that he wasn't the programmer on Fez, Renaud Bédard is.

Basically, 100% this.

 

[Speevy]

I feel sorry for the people who have to work under this jerk.

 

[Fire Walk With Me]

I kind of do, yeah. Maybe not that far, but I think he deserves some kind of punishment for his behaviour. That's how human society works. Don't enable people when they act in an unacceptable manner. There needs to be consequences.

Reading the comments in this thread are enough punishment for anyone.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Ah, so its not a sentiment shared by Japanese developers? They like western games?

From what I have read in interviews and what not, yes! Especially since the 360/PS3 generation began, I've seen lots of praise for western console games from Japanese developers.

Reading the comments in this thread are enough punishment for anyone.

How do you figure?

 

[JuxJuxJux]

That's what he's doing. Whether or not is succeeds in the eyes of an audience is kind of unrelated. Opinions and beliefs are what drive people to do things.

a) He thinks contemporary Japanese Game Design sucks.
b) He designed a game himself.

To him, that's his response. Whatever anyone else thinks about it, that's his personal response to that thought, just like him saying it in the first place is his personal opinion.

Point taken.

Here's an interesting piece you should read regarding the von Trier dustup, if you're truly interested. I think most reasonable people know von Trier, like Phil Fish, isn't actually evil, merely an asshole. These are socially maladjusted, inarticulate people, not villains. And anyway, I was responding to the absurd, Marvel Comics' "What If... ?" presented by the poster I responded to. This thread is full of them. It's Fox News outrage discourse of the highest order, with few people taking the time to Google to find a transcript of the GDC panel in question, look at a sampling of Fish's Twitter posts to see what kind of character he is or even figure out that he isn't the programmer on Fez, Renaud Bédard is.

I look forward to reading this, thanks! I guess I just wish that there were less assholes in the spotlight, especially durring GDC. I personally just want games, and the people that create and play them, to evolve past this internet subculture. I'll just go back to lurking now.

 

[soultron]

Hasn't he been an ass long before this?

Fez also won an IGF prize in 2008.

Here's an interview from 2008. He wasn't an asshole back then, in my opinion. And thanks to Zia for mentioning Renaud. Fish isn't the only one behind this game.

I just think he's responding to people bitching about the IGF awarding prizes to unfinished games. Twice.

 

[wonderdung]

I just think he's responding to people bitching about the IGF awarding prizes to unfinished games. Twice.

Well, it's all conflated with the Japanese games suck comments, but isn't giving awards to unreleased games a legitimately bad policy on the IGF's part?

(Twitter meltdowns are always entertaining but I don't actually think his comments on Japanese games are very significant. There's pretty ample evidence out there that developers don't have any better taste in games than anyone else.)

 

[Zoramon089]

oh yeah, totally apples and apples right there.


I'm so stupid, I should've taken that one unique example over all the other times where the opposite happened.

What are these numerous examples exactly? I have yet to see where negative publicity has made benefit someone. Bill Clinton got a blow job from an intern and lied about it? Impeached. Marriage problems. Tiger Woods revealed to have been cheating with tons of mistresses? Lost a TON of his endorsement deals. Mel Gibson making anti-semetic comments? Basically got blacklisted for a long time. John Imus calls black women "nappy headed hos", loses his job. Rush Limbaugh calls some woman a slut? Loses dozens of advertisers/sponsors.

So tell me all about these "other times"?

 

[Jasoco]

Fish has always been a bit arrogant. It's just slowly gotten worse. But I don't care. He's not the only one behind the game and I will still buy it... on Steam in a year... hopefully.

 

[bunbun777]

So tell me all about these "other times"?

Rosanne Barr 'butchering' national anthem, grabbing crotch and spitting, outrage, national tv show moves to #1-

also see Larry Sanders pushing woman into magazine rack (ok this is a satire but that's how I remember the Rosanne one)

 

[Seraphinianus]

I kind of do, yeah. Maybe not that far, but I think he deserves some kind of punishment for his behaviour. That's how human society works. Don't enable people when they act in an unacceptable manner. There needs to be consequences.

his punishment is that a bunch of you guys now hate him and have spent days picking him apart. Maybe it won't affect him that much or negatively at all, but hey, the punishment fits the non-crime.

 

[Seraphinianus]

What are these numerous examples exactly? I have yet to see where negative publicity has made benefit someone. Bill Clinton got a blow job from an intern and lied about it? Impeached. Marriage problems. Tiger Woods revealed to have been cheating with tons of mistresses? Lost a TON of his endorsement deals. Mel Gibson making anti-semetic comments? Basically got blacklisted for a long time. John Imus calls black women "nappy headed hos", loses his job. Rush Limbaugh calls some woman a slut? Loses dozens of advertisers/sponsors.

So tell me all about these "other times"?

uh, I was talking about times when "controversial" stuff happened in the game industry, to which gaf reacted with negative threads/boycotts/etc., then game goes on to do just fine. Usually these revolve around DLC issues, maybe some tech issues, though there have been things like the COD F.A.G.S incident.

I'm not the type to go do intensive search engine research over these things, but any long time member can tell you about gaf's usually-impotent outrage.


<------(avatar) also, Phil Fish in 50 years holy shit!!!

 

[Iknos]

Yes, because criticising a guy for being a tactless asshole on an internet forum is the same thing as being a tactless asshole in public and embarrassing a polite audience member. Even if one thinks his opinion is reasonable (and not a gross generalisation that a person in his position shouldn't be promoting), his behaviour was still way out of line.
If you don't understand the difference, maybe you have the same lack of social skills as Fish.



Haha. Much of the best Japanese music is a lot noisier than that...

Lying about the situation to prove your point. Good stuff.

I posted the picture so people like yourself couldn't squirm away from your hypocracy

Twitter is just as public as that event. The point of that agent msg reply was to put fish down too.

So don't pretend that these situation are not comparable.

Don't talk about my social skills when your dishonesty is obvious.

But let's play your game and say the environments are different. Doesn't change the fact that a rude act is a rude act.

What disgusts me the most is that Neogafs opinion of him is based on whether or not they agree with him. If he said iPad games suck you guys would be worshipping his nuts.

 

[Zoe]

Lying about the situation to prove your point. Good stuff.

I posted the picture so people like yourself couldn't squirm away from your hypocracy

Twitter is just as public as that event. The point of that agent msg reply was to put fish down too.

So don't pretend that these situation are not comparable.

Online remarks can go back and forth. At the public event, Fish was on the panel of speakers and the Japanese guy was just asking a question from the audience. He was in no position to engage in the discussion much less defend a differing point of view.

 

[GillianSeed79]

If he said iPad games suck you guys would be worshipping his nuts.

If an iOS developer was polite and got up to ask a question at a GDC panel and Fish said "lol, iPad games suck" in response to a simple question I'd like to think people would still think it was tactless, regardless if they agreed or disagreed with him.

I think most people are upset with the guy not because his opinion is that modern Japanese game suck, it's the rudeness in which he interacted with an audience member who was polite in asking a question.

 

[Riposte]

He's buddy-buddy with the IGF heads, and given their lack of professionalism when responding to the complaints about judges not even playing the games they are assigned, I wouldn't expect much from them.

Expanding on this would be game journalism I'd be interested in reading. But most dudes are reluctant even comment on something as small as the thread's topic.

 

[tino]

I think games like Binary Domain would have been more popular if it's released by a European dev and has a slightly different sensibility.

The game itself is very decent. But Japanese games have been exposed for 3+ generations now and people kind of got tired of their "thing".

But graphic wise Japanese devs are pretty underwhelming this gen.

 

[Yamibito]

Oh, the next guy who just posts that he has a problem with something but doesn't want to elaborate on what his problem actually is.

Why even post if you don't want to participate in the discussion in any way?

Because I just think it's bizarre that people still care- it's like people are looking to get offended just so they can hate someone new, all these incredibly dumb comparisons and pledges to not buy Fez just come across as hypocritical. Why complain about him being childish when nearly everyone else is doing the exact same thing? Comparing him to Hitler and Chris Brown, really? Come on guys this is pathetic.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Because I just think it's bizarre that people still care- it's like people are looking to get offended just so they can hate someone new, all these incredibly dumb comparisons and pledges to not buy Fez just come across as hypocritical. Why complain about him being childish when nearly everyone else is doing the exact same thing? Comparing him to Hitler and Chris Brown, really? Come on guys this is pathetic.

And I think people at GDC and the japanese guy are probably all over it by now...everyone is an adult there and their psyches aren't as fragile as some of the people who are completely fucking outraged here.

I think everyone gets that his comment was stupid and blunt, everything after on twitter? trolling you guys. just trolling. which I think a lot of people would do in his position lol

 

[blind51de]

I wish someone prolific would point out that most JRPG players have just been playing Dragon Quest and rehashes of Dragon Quest, over and over, since 1986. It gave JRPGs life but it's never stopped holding them back.

 

[Riposte]

But graphic wise Japanese devs are pretty underwhelming this gen.

I wouldn't say so. I think the reality might be colored by the fact many more devs are working on portables while not working on PC (where the best looking games are).

If you end up splintering the west so that it is more of a fair comparison to a single country you might end up losing stuff like Metro 2033 and The Witcher 2. I am of the mind that East Europe gets shitted on as much as Japan, so no reason to throw their lot in with the rest of them.

 

[Negator]

I wish someone prolific would point out that most JRPG players have just been playing Dragon Quest and rehashes of Dragon Quest, over and over, since 1986. It gave JRPGs life but it's never stopped holding them back.

I hope not because that is literally one of the stupidest things I have ever read on NeoGAF