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[Smiles and Cries]

Maybe Arkam is the source

no that is not even a joke but a good possibility

 

[DarkChild]

His reception was because he came in alwith an obvious axe to grind added to the fact that he admitted to not even working on the system.

Ideaman is pretty loved around here on the other hand, and he never developed on the Wii U. In fact, he isn't even a developer. His sources seem vague, many think he is a troll/fanboy because he rarely says something people don't know, and when he says it its everything but meaningful in terms of technical speculation.

 

[DynamicG]

Alot of the other threads seem designed to get strong reactions and petty bickering. This thread has remained fairly civil with the expectation of a few consistent trolls who like to drop in and make snide comments and then drop out.

There are some ridiculous theories being bandied about here, but most of the discussion in this thread has been very civil, especially with Ideaman, Assassin, blu and wsippel making good posts.

Tensions are high about this and I, like alot of other Nintendo fans, are sensitive about the criticism because it stays the same no matter what Nintendo does.

 

[radioheadrule83]

so wsippel is able to understand where the weakness is from while this dev points the issue as a WiiU problem.

To clarify, its not about what wsippel understands, he obtained an official document which addressed problems middleware may have with the CPU, which this particular developer may not have addressed or may not have the resources to address.

The developer could of course just be right and it might be a buggers muddle to get anything working... we'll soon see

 

[Gleethor]

Weird how everywhere else on Gaf people are like "Oh man don't go into the Wii U speculation thread, teh fanboyz!!!!" when discussion here is far more civil than elsewhere.

 

[magash]

What is really surprising is that people would rather believe the words of an anonymous source rather than the words of developers with names.

 

[IdeaMan]

The arkam/ideaman reception was done 5 times already, please

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Ideaman is pretty loved around here on the other hand, and he never developed on the Wii U. In fact, he isn't even a developer. His sources seem vague, many think he is a troll/fanboy because he rarely says something people don't know, and when he says it its everything but meaningful in terms of technical speculation.

Stop hatin' man.

 

[Jokeropia]

While I agree that Nintendo can launch a console at a loss, I don't believe they could handle multiple loss generations in a row. Losing billions every launch would kill the company and quickly wipe out the money they have. Unlike MS or Sony, most of Nintendo's business consists of the video game market. They don't have an OS or health insurance to sell to help make up for the losses in the company for example. So while I agree they could participate in the tech race, I question how long they can do it. Sony lost 5-6 billion this gen IIRC, do you really think Nintendo can eat that kind of loss without worry?

I'm sure it'd make them rethink their strategy (though there is no way they'd ever release a moneysink like the PS3 in the first place), but it wouldn't eat up their warchest or put them in debt. Sony OTOH has billions in debt from several consecutive years of posting losses. (And this is Sony corp rather than just the gaming business.)

 

[DynamicG]

Ideaman is pretty loved around here on the other hand, and he never developed on the Wii U. In fact, he isn't even a developer. His sources seem vague, many think he is a troll/fanboy because he rarely says something people don't know, and when he says it its everything but meaningful in terms of technical speculation.

I agree that Arkam got a ton of shit for no reason, but I also think ideaman is way better at presenting his ideas. Presentation matters when people take things seriously.

Are Ideaman and Arkam even that far off from eachother in their assessments of the hardware?

 

[GhostTrick]

Ideaman is pretty loved around here on the other hand, and he never developed on the Wii U. In fact, he isn't even a developer. His sources seem vague, many think he is a troll/fanboy because he rarely says something people don't know, and when he says it its everything but meaningful in terms of technical speculation.

Aren't you the fanboy who claims WiiU will be underpowered compared to PS3/360 because anonym "devs" claims that for April Fools Day ?
"Blablabla impossible the case is too small"

 

[Fourth Storm]

well you didn't quote the sentence I wrote right after it where I said "I wonder who is right". It is a little interesting. Has there ever been such a range in opinion on something that should be quite concrete for developers to understand or something? To some devs have better dev kits with differences that big? There's just so many factors that I wonder what exactly is causing the discrepancy in all these opinions. Personally I won't believe shit until post-e3 when companies are hopefully allowed to talk, and Nintendo shows off their stuff, but it's pretty weird as of now.

I just want exact reasoning that's all. Lherre? BG? IdeaMan? Anyone who claims to know things?

Quite interesting indeed. All these stories hitting at once is a bit suspect. I hate to delve into what some would label "conspiracy theory" but IMO a Sony/MS viral campaign shouldn't be discounted. And perhaps Nintendo allowed Martell to do a little damage control in their name.

It could also be that the CPU is clocked below 3Ghz, but I find it a bit hard to accept, considering it's apparently only 3 2-way SMT capable cores. If CPU wattage was an issue, I'd think IBM would've scaled it down to 32 nm.

 

[Anth0ny]

Are Ideaman and Arkam even that far off from eachother in their assessments of the hardware?

I'm pretty sure Ideaman claims Wii U is easily more powerful than PS360, and it can still become even more powerful with the next and final dev kit. Arkam claims it's not even as strong as 360/PS3.

I think Arkam/all these people creating headlines are looking are old dev kits still and Wii U games look like shit. Ideaman knows someone from Ubisoft, who of course have the most recent dev kits at all times.

/conspiracy theory

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Arkam didn't get shit for no reason, usually when you say something completely contradictory to what has been said, you explain yourself in some way. He basically pulled a drive by, disappeared, then when he came back his explanations were a bit weak and saying things like he doesn't actually work with it and all that.

BUT then he came back a while after getting himself verified, explained a lot more, actually stuck around for a bit, then things became a lot more clear/happy/easy to discuss. In the end, BG just needs to post that post he has which explains why people are seeing differences in opinions and what's going on and then everyone will be like OHHH so that's why (including me), and then the second a new article pops up with the same old shit everyone can get sucked right back into that hole and start a new.

The circle of life.

 

[Hoo-doo]

What is really surprising is that people would rather believe the words of an anonymous source rather than the words of developers with names.

These aren't anonymous tidbits that some unknown source sent in via mail, these are statements made by developers working on "big name franchises", that prefer to stay anonymous because they want to keep their fucking job.

 

[MDX]

Sony and MS were getting some serious criticisms
regarding rumors that their consoles might block used games.
So much so some of their fans were saying they would buy a WiiU instead.
Now, out of the woodwork comes WiiU rumors that its
less powerful than current gen consoles by unnamed developers?
Come on, thats no coincidence.

 

[schuelma]

These aren't anonymous tidbits that some unknown source sent in via mail, these are statements made by developers working on "big name franchises", that prefer to stay anonymous because they want to keep their fucking job.

If they want to keep their fucking job, stuff like "I guess teh Marios doesn't need physics" doesn't seem like a good way to go about that.

 

[Hiltz]

so wsippel is able to understand where the weakness is from while this dev points the issue as a WiiU problem.

if it was as simple as middleware compatibility would this guy go out of his ways to say I guess you don't need this kind of power for mario games?

do devs just really hate Nintendo?

It's probably safe to say that most developers just really seem to want better graphics, more processing power, and robust online services which is understandable. However, I wonder if they're actually concerned about the increase in development costs. Is it also ironic that Nintendo of all console manufacturers seems the most concerned about it? In addition, Nintendo has taken it upon itself to pioneer controller innovation more than any other console manufacturer in the industry. Some developers say they want innovation yet they don't always support it in the end. Another thing we all are clearly aware of is how many developers have a lack of faith in putting their games on a Nintendo platform with the fear that they can't compete against Nintendo's own titles.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

What is really surprising is that people would rather believe the words of an anonymous source rather than the words of developers with names.

I don't understand why the negative guys have to stay anonymous

I mean Nintendo fans would certainly support their games after clowning the hardware on news blogs

nope I don't think devs are willing to do that, they will complain in the shadows and smile in our faces at E3 praising Nintendo on video clips supporting the WiiU with their games

 

[GhostTrick]

These aren't anonymous tidbits that some unknown source sent in via mail, these are statements made by developers working on "big name franchises", that prefer to stay anonymous because they want to keep their fucking job.

Yeah, and they wanted to talk for April Fools Day. Of course.

 

[DarkChild]

These aren't anonymous tidbits that some unknown source sent in via mail, these are statements made by developers working on "big name franchises", that prefer to stay anonymous because they want to keep their fucking job.

You are most certainly wrong. Those anonymous developers are actually non existing people that couple of sites that got payed by MS and Sony made up because rumors started to come in about no used games on nextbox and PS4 which no body yet has heard of. Makes total sense.

 

[Sadist]

Weird how everywhere else on Gaf people are like "Oh man don't go into the Wii U speculation thread, teh fanboyz!!!!" when discussion here is far more civil than elsewhere.

It's a sign that they never took the time to actually read this thread.

It's just tiresome to see all these threads discussing the power of the console. I mean, I'm seriously excited for Wii U because it's the next Nintendo system and well, if the thing gets better (and more substantial) support from third parties, cool beans. I'd see it as a bonus. But in light of all the rumours flying around and the horrible discussion it's producing, I wish some GAF'ers (it doesn't matter what they prefer) would just stop with their fanwankery. The systemwars bullshit from both sides was fun six years ago, but I swear: it's gotten worse this time around.

If they want to keep their fucking job, stuff like "I guess teh Marios doesn't need physics" doesn't seem like a good way to go about that.

Agreed.

 

[Hoo-doo]

If they want to keep their fucking job, stuff like "I guess teh Marios doesn't need physics" doesn't seem like a good way to go about that.

You could actually read the rest of his statements, instead of cherry picking one sentence and bastardizing it to make it look extra childish.

Yeah, and they wanted to talk for April Fools Day. Of course.

None of the articles were posted on April Fools.

 

[Oddduck]

I agree that Arkam got a ton of shit for no reason, but I also think ideaman is way better at presenting his ideas. Presentation matters when people take things seriously.

Are Ideaman and Arkam even that far off from eachother in their assessments of the hardware?

I don't think Arkam presented himself badly.

It's just that people straight up refused to believe Nintendo would do something as stupid as making a console less powerful than 360/PS3.

Nothing Arkam would have said would have pleased people here. There isn't an easy way to deliver bad news to people.

 

[wsippel]

so wsippel is able to understand where the weakness is from while this dev points the issue as a WiiU problem.

if it was as simple as middleware compatibility would this guy go out of his ways to say I guess you don't need this kind of power for mario games?

do devs just really hate Nintendo?

Well, it kinda is a Wii U problem. It's a different approach. It uses more dedicated hardware, and unless developers use that hardware, they'll not get the best possible performance out of the system. But using the hardware is more work - and not even just a few lines of code.

But there's also the optimization issue, of course. The system is early and the tools are early, and proper optimization can lead to performance increases of several hundred or even thousand percent.

 

[magash]

These aren't anonymous tidbits that some unknown source sent in via mail, these are statements made by developers working on "big name franchises", that prefer to stay anonymous because they want to keep their fucking job.

So basically people like Colin Bonstead are liars?

 

[DarkChild]

I don't think Arkam presented himself badly.

It's just that people straight up refused to believe Nintendo would do something as stupid as making a console less powerful than 360/PS3.

Nothing Arkam would have said would have pleased people here. There isn't an easy way to deliver bad news to people.

Care to link some posts from Arkam, I haven't read them.

 

[MDX]

If they want to keep their fucking job, stuff like "I guess teh Marios doesn't need physics" doesn't seem like a good way to go about that.

Yeah, why would somebody shoot themselves in the foot? Even if a developer believed the console to be not as strong, they would still focus on the positive. Like the controller, or some other aspect of the machine. Especially if they are making a game for it.

 

[schuelma]

You could actually read the rest of his statements, instead of cherry picking one sentence and bastardizing it to make it look extra childish.

I did read them

 

[GhostTrick]

You are most certainly wrong. Those anonymous developers are actually non existing people that couple of sites that got payed by MS and Sony made up because rumors started to come in about no used games on nextbox and PS4 which no body yet has heard of. Makes total sense.

Yeah, but those named devs who makes statements about WiiU being more powerfull than PS3/360 are just lying clowns who've got paid by Nintendo to say that. Makes total sense.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Sony and MS were getting some serious criticisms
regarding rumors that their consoles might block used games.
So much so some of their fans were saying they would buy a WiiU instead.
Now, out of the woodwork comes WiiU rumors that its
less powerful than current gen consoles by unnamed developers?
Come on, thats no coincidence.

but devs see blocking used games as a GOOD thing so its not bad news for them at all
only the fans hate it that is very different from both devs and fans hating the WiiU for being weak

 

[schuelma]

You are most certainly wrong. Those anonymous developers are actually non existing people that couple of sites that got payed by MS and Sony made up because rumors started to come in about no used games on nextbox and PS4 which no body yet has heard of. Makes total sense.

What is your purpose for being in this thread?

 

[Hoo-doo]

So basically people like Colin Bonstead are liars?

Not at all. I think he simply wants to sell a product, and he's under some extreme NDA's regarding the Wii-U hardware.

 

[DynamicG]

Arkam didn't get shit for no reason, usually when you say something completely contradictory to what has been said, you explain yourself in some way. He basically pulled a drive by, disappeared, then when he came back his explanations were a bit weak and saying things like he doesn't actually work with it and all that.

BUT then he came back a while after getting himself verified, explained a lot more, actually stuck around for a bit, then things became a lot more clear/happy/easy to discuss. In the end, BG just needs to post that post he has which explains why people are seeing differences in opinions and what's going on and then everyone will be like OHHH so that's why (including me), and then the second a new article pops up with the same old shit everyone can get sucked right back into that hole and start a new.

The circle of life.

You are correct it wasn't for "no reason." I was not completely accurate myself there. He was really brusk with his assessment and didn't really explain at first.

I think your second point is spot on. The same articles keep coming up over and over which is putting salt in the wounds of folks who are concerned about a repeat of the Wii situation.

On a side note. How much does the "winner" of a generation matter? The way I see it we are headed into a post-modern gaming industry that will not be about one type of gamer, but a very diverse group of gamers with quite a few options.

I like that Nintendo gives a very specific version of video gaming that is quite different than the other two. I just wish Sony and MS were more diverse in their perspectives. I talk about the idea of a "winner' because many of my conversations with other gamers (IRL and on gaf) focus on this idea of the one supreme console that rules them all.

 

[ozfunghi]

You could actually read the rest of his statements, instead of cherry picking one sentence and bastardizing it to make it look extra childish.

Indeed. No need for that. His statement was childish enough as it was. No need to make it extra childish.

 

[schuelma]

Indeed. No need for that. His statement was childish enough as it was. No need to make it extra childish.

I beg your forgiveness. I will return my Pulitzer that I won for accurately summarizing anonymous quotes from videogame articles. Consider me chastised.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

I don't know what we're yelling about!

What is your purpose for being in this thread?

To tell people he uses common sense.

 

[magash]

Not at all. I think he simply wants to sell a product, and he's under some extreme NDA's regarding the Wii-U hardware.

So you are calling him a liar. This is not that hard. You have people that have worked on the hardware actually saying the Wii U is more powerful and yet you would rather believe an anonymous developer.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I wonder if the Wii U controller will have some sort of silicone jacket to protect it just like the Wiimote's.
Accidents happen and it could the difference between prevent a tragedy and cry in a corner.

Given that it's not something you'll be swinging around one handed I don't think the danger is there to other objects. And the part of the controller itself that could use protecting most, the screen, would be pretty useless if it had a jacket covering it.

The zelda demo was a simple lighting demo using assets ripped straight out of twilight princess.

Pretty clearly wasn't Twilight Princess assets or it would've looked a lot more like Twilight Princess Dolphin shots.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Well, it kinda is a Wii U problem. It's a different approach. It uses more dedicated hardware, and unless developers use that hardware, they'll not get the best possible performance out of the system. But using the hardware is more work - and not even just a few lines of code.

But there's also the optimization issue, of course. The system is early and the tools are early, and proper optimization can lead to performance increases of several hundred or even thousand percent.

okay thanks for making it clear.

So now I am asking if this is really a hardware problem at all or laziness since it takes more work to get the desired results. "I don't want to work harder so the machine sucks" - So Nintendo failed here at least they failed to make devs happy with plug and play development

 

[Azure J]

This thread just keeps getting weaker and cattier to deal with in each new revision. I think I might just lurk until the final NG-BELIEVE-V5 thread finally drops.

Jokes aside, thanks for the new stuff wsippel. I think I might go back and fix up another catch all post like the one Donnie linked to in the Aliens thread just for the sake of a reset to ground level on this situation.

As an aside, I really would like to challenge certain posters to stop attacking one another for their views and consider all sides of the story thus far.

 

[Hoo-doo]

So you are calling him a liar. This is not that hard. You have people that have worked on the hardware actually saying the Wii U is more powerful and yet you would rather believe an anonymous developer.

Could you link me to his statement again?

 

[IdeaMan]

All the plausible explanations for some of these "negative" interviews are in these speculation threads, really.

We know that an audio middleware was running very badly before huge optimizations in a new revision, that pushed the performances at least to Xbox360 CPU level, better in some ways, and after analyzing this data, it's pretty clear that more optimizations are on their way to further increase the edge of the Wii U CPU which is quite new for this middleware company, on the contrary to the Xbox360 one that benefited of years of refinements.

Some of these new articles are stating that there are some difficulties with AI and Physics, area covered again by middleware solutions for a lot of projects. We can expect the same case here, these tools aren't optimized at all for the Wii U CPU, and it will get better after some re-coding, etc.

This could come from a lot of parameters, like the Out Of Order nature of this CPU in comparison to In Order. Maybe these middleware solutions are requiring the execution of a code sequentially in a specific order, and the Wii U CPU try to reschedule the sequence of code execution in a way it think it's more optimal for the resources, etc, like a OoO CPU should do, but in the end, the results are worse because of this CPU initiative than if the code was executed as planned, in a certain order. Maybe there's something in the IBM Wii U CPU that constitute an hindrance in quick "conversion" of a software from a In-Order architecture to a OoO one. I'm not an expert on this, but really, it just seems that a lot of these supposed bad news come from a struggle of certain ported software on this CPU without optimizations tailored for its specificities.

Edit: how someone can achieve to post first in maybe 7 ou 8 pages in less than some weeks ? It smells another super pawa, after the "annoying teasing" one

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Funny how not even 12 hours ago, this was a happy place. Smiles and love all around. Around 12 hours later, its a living hell.

 

[magash]

Could you link me to his statement again?

At the very least, Vigil believes that gamers can look forward to ports to Nintendo’s new console that are not inferior to every other version of the game. When we asked Bonstead if he thought it was possible that the Wii U version of Darksiders II would be the best version of the game, he said, "Yeah, just because the hardware is more powerful and it will have some extra features that I think will actually be useful to people playing the game. With it’s controller, [the Wii U version of Darksiders II] might be the best version of the game."

 

[Smiles and Cries]

This thread just keeps getting weaker and cattier to deal with in each new revision. I think I might just lurk until the final NG-BELIEVE-V5 thread finally drops.

Jokes aside, thanks for the new stuff wsippel. I think I might go back and fix up another catch all post like the one Donnie linked to in the Aliens thread just for the sake of a reset to ground level on this situation.

As an aside, I really would like to challenge certain posters to stop attacking one another for their views and consider all sides of the story thus far.

people who only posted in negative news threads about WiiU now have reason to invade this thread posting their belief of having all the facts, fun times ahead

 

[Door2Dawn]

Why isn't E3 here yet!?

 

[schuelma]

Wow I can't believe Nintendo is fucking this up again.

Ha. We'll see. I expect 30 more contradictory articles between now and E3. IF, IF, these latest reports are 100% accurate, I do believe Nintendo is making a big miscalculation.

 

[magash]

Wow I can't believe Nintendo is fucking this up again.

Oh wait, yeah I can.

I know right..."When will this fucking company learn". LOL

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Why isn't E3 here yet!?

and

Are clearly working together.