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[SentientStone]

Rika is pretty moe until she gets all dark and

Spoiler

starts stabbing herself in the neck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fm5BR-xKUc

I just Youtubed that scene and saw some other quite violent stuff with moe characters, hm, not sure what to think. I am beginning to think that they just use moe characters to sell merchandise better just for the hell of it. It still does not change my opinion on moe, and makes me question why they would use that style at all for some of those series.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I am fine with Ponyo because she was cute but not in any sexual way and the style is very much different compared to the above image (plus that film was made for very young children specifically). Even sexualized I am fine with (I enjoyed the new Eva movies and just watched that series last year believe it or not), just the particular style that I posted above which I just cannot get into no matter what. The content / context will need to be drastically different thematically for me to enjoy the above cute-style. The problem is that the visual style of an anime should define what content is going to be expected coming from that particular anime, unless the intent is for a parody or something. I would not expect an anime to be in the above artistic style to suit me in terms of content, for example, because the style itself should not be used if it is for anything more serious (which is what I usually enjoy watching).

But the context/content IS drastically different in the franchise of the image you posted. I mean just look at what happens to that character (spoilers). This is a normal occurrence for the series and plenty of others like it.

Edit: Ah, I see it's already been brought up.

 

[zeroshiki]

Hey maybe they're in High School because, gasp, the target market is in high school? Anyone ever bothered to consider that before complaining?

And there are alot of anime not set in high school.

 

[Risette]

I just Youtubed that scene and saw some other quite violent stuff with moe characters, hm, not sure what to think. I am beginning to think that they just use moe characters to sell merchandise better just for the hell of it. It still does not change my opinion on moe, and makes me question why they would use that style at all for some of those series.

Animators like to draw cute girls. Cute girls sell. Win/win.

 

[Enron]

I'd listen to Adam Blade. If there's one thing he knows about, its moe.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I just Youtubed that scene and saw some other quite violent stuff with moe characters, hm, not sure what to think. I am beginning to think that they just use moe characters to sell merchandise better just for the hell of it. It still does not change my opinion on moe, and makes me question why they would use that style at all for some of those series.

They use that style because it's jarring, making it more effective for some people. It's not anything new either.

 

[squidyj]

Hey maybe they're in High School because, gasp, the target market is in high school? Anyone ever bothered to consider that before complaining?

And there are alot of anime not set in high school.

You know that's not true.

There's a disproportionate amount of high school drama anime. Even when it's not your traditional high school story you have shit like Battle Royale which is still high schoolers.

 

[InfiniteNine]

I just Youtubed that scene and saw some other quite violent stuff with moe characters, hm, not sure what to think. I am beginning to think that they just use moe characters to sell merchandise better just for the hell of it. It still does not change my opinion on moe, and makes me question why they would use that style at all for some of those series.

I'm sure the super moe source material got famous off enough to get an anime created that with artwork like this:

 

[John Blade]

Ehh anime is like one of the easiest mediums to find good stuff for I mean - Look at seasonal charts > filter out all the shit with bad art styles > check out stuff that looks semi-decent / interesting > check staff > check what other people are looking forward to (to make sure you aren't missing anything) > rinse repeat. At least unlike say books, films and video games you can theoretically keep up with everything!

I mean this current season alone has - lupin the third : the woman called fujiko mine, tsuritama, kids on the slope and then afterwards - space brothers, mysterious girlfriend x, saint seiya omega, fate/zero s2, eureka seven ao etc. Not sure how any anime fan can complain about the state of anime right now, until the next shitty season comes, then it will be justified!

lupin the third is the only one that might interested me as the previous one from what I heard is good to watch. Space brothers will wait for a bit. Need to hear the review for that show. The rest is either hit or miss for me.

Maybe it`s better I check at the anime gaf as some of those show post here do look interesting but isn`t something I will watch. I am those people who like Jin Roh or Gundam 0080 with either serious storyline idea and a good character development where you know the characters very well and sadden when they die (this is mostly at 0080).

But hey, this is someone who love FLCL which have an insane idea but can still deliver a very good storyline even though it`s just plain nuts.

 

[Lafiel]

You know that's not true.

Anime is either aimed at teenagers, children, woman in their 20s-30s (if your show airs on noitamina) or otakus who are like in their 20s-40s probably. Pretty diverse range of age groups!

lupin the third is the only one that might interested me as the previous one from what I heard is good to watch. Space brothers will wait for a bit. Need to hear the review for that show. The rest is either hit or miss for me.

Maybe it`s better I check at the anime gaf as some of those show post here do look interesting but isn`t something I will watch. I am those people who like Jin Roh or Gundam 0080 with either serious storyline idea and a good character development where you know the characters very well and sadden when they die (this is mostly at 0080).

I don't see how someone with your avatar can not be interested in Tsuritama or Kids on the Slope.

 

[twinturbo2]

The only answer.

 

[zeroshiki]

You know that's not true.

???

You have proof for this? Or are you one of those "everyone who likes anime is a pervert" people?

Despite the western market, Shounen Jump, for example, is indeed targeted towards boys.

 

[Risette]

lupin the third is the only one that might interested me as the previous one from what I heard is good to watch. Space brothers will wait for a bit. Need to hear the review for that show. The rest is either hit or miss for me.

How about actually watching them? You never know how good a show is until you see the concept in execution.

 

[SentientStone]

Animators like to draw cute girls. Cute girls sell. Win/win.

That first quote by the studio owner makes me sad. :/

They use that style because it's jarring, making it more effective for some people. It's not anything new either.

If it is for parody or satirical purposes then I am fine with it, just not if it is forced for financial reasons (but they need to do what need to do to survive I guess).

 

[Laughing Banana]

This is just my personal taste but I really think NO ONE can create "moe" better than Studio Ghibli. Their female leads are mostly fantastic, being cute without bordering to creepy or pandering to usual fan-servicey stuff.

 

[squidyj]

???

You have proof for this? Or are you one of those "everyone who likes anime is a pervert" people?

Despite the western market, Shounen Jump, for example, is indeed targeted towards boys.

That's not even close to what I'm saying.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

If it is for parody or satirical purposes then I am fine with it, just not if it is forced for financial reasons (but they need to do what need to do to survive I guess).

It's very rarely forced for financial reasons. One of the most prominent ones, Elfen Lied, was planned to have that style years before the manga author even started working on it. It's a stylistic choice that is meant to evoke a sense of dissonance, which like I said can be very effective.

 

[zeroshiki]

That's not even close to what I'm saying.

What were you saying? That anime/manga set in high school is not targeted towards high schoolers?

 

[John Blade]

How about actually watching them? You never know how good a show is until you see the concept in execution.

Well...wish I was in high school and have tons of time to watch any anime here.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

You know that's not true.

There's a disproportionate amount of high school drama anime. Even when it's not your traditional high school story you have shit like Battle Royale which is still high schoolers.

Battle Royale is middle schoolers.

 

[squidyj]

Battle Royale is middle schoolers.

Which Battle Royale?

What were you saying? That anime/manga set in high school is not targeted towards high schoolers?

More or less. I think you'd have to show me statistics on viewing demographics to convince me otherwise.

 

[SentientStone]

This is just my personal taste but I really think NO ONE can create "moe" better than Studio Ghibli. Their female leads are mostly fantastic, being cute without bordering to creepy or pandering to usual fan-servicey stuff.

So those characters are considered moe too? I guess I really do not know what moe means then. What is the term for "being cute [and] bordering to creepy or pandering to usual fan-servicey stuff". That is what turns me off.

Because Miyazaki almost always depict his female leads with strong will power and mostly in a realistic human way (they all feel very relatable and human). I really think his films are made for Japanese society specifically as a way to try and change some of the negative aspects of Japanese society (ie. sexist attitude towards women). Even with Ponyo, I can see why he may have made that film.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Which Battle Royale?

The one that was based off of Hunger Games.

 

[zeroshiki]

I'm not sure how Battle Royale would have worked if they weren't classmates.

That's a really odd example to bring up.

 

[Laughing Banana]

You know that's not true.

There's a disproportionate amount of high school drama anime. Even when it's not your traditional high school story you have shit like Battle Royale which is still high schoolers.

I get what you are saying, but using Battle Royale as an example is not a good idea to support your argument. Battle Royale using high-school characters are not "pandering to the masses" but really is because its main central theme/story-line.

So those characters are considered moe too? I guess I really do not know what moe means then. What is the term for "being cute [and] bordering to creepy or pandering to usual fan-servicey stuff". That is what turns me off.

Because Miyazaki almost always depict his female leads with strong will power and mostly in a realistic human way (they all feel very relatable and human). I really think his films are made for Japanese society specifically as a way to try and change some of the negative aspects of Japanese society (ie. sexist attitude towards women). Even with Ponyo, I can see why he may have made that film.

Hehehe. I always personally consider the term "moe" as "cute" really (although I gather this might not be entirely accurate), and what is fantastic about Ghibli's female leads is that although they are strong and independent they can and they are still "cute" in that d'aaaaww & lovable sort of way.

 

[squidyj]

The one that was based off of Hunger Games.

So.... not the original novel published 9 years prior to the hunger games then, okay.

I get what you are saying, but using Battle Royale as an example is not a good idea to support your argument. Battle Royale using high-school characters are not "pandering to the masses" but really is because its main central theme/story-line.

Yeah, it might not be the greatest example :l

 

[Risette]

Well...wish I was in high school and have tons of time to watch any anime here.

It's 23 minutes per episode...

 

[Violet_0]

What were you saying? That anime/manga set in high school is not targeted towards high schoolers?

well, there's some truth in that

 

[cheststrongwell]

http://www.viddler.com/v/99a9d6aa

 

[N-Bomb]

Indeed, you aren't trying to find the good stuff anymore.

You're right, I'm not. I was burnt so many times, I stopped reaching into the fire.

From what I've been hearing over the past couple years of not watching anything, I ain't missed much though. :\

 

[Risette]

You're right, I'm not. I was burnt so many times, I stopped reaching into the fire.

From what I've been hearing over the past couple years of not watching anything, I ain't missed much though. :\

You've missed plenty. Seriously, there is at least 1-3 good shows worth watching even on an off season.

 

[icecream]

So.... not the original novel published 9 years prior to the hunger games then, okay.

Sarcasm, with a dash of disingenuousness, my dear.

So those characters are considered moe too? I guess I really do not know what moe means then. What is the term for "being cute [and] bordering to creepy or pandering to usual fan-servicey stuff". That is what turns me off.

There is no specific term for that, it is just "pandering for an audience because pandering is a tactic to pull in sales."

Moé is simply a characteristic, an ideal. It does not have any extraneous connotations to it. Much like how media uses sexuality to sell and move products and advertising, so do some companies chose to utilize moé in the same manner, likely because other forms of tactics do not give a strong enough response fiscally to that particular demographic at this current time.

People may refuse to believe it, but it's not that the pandering stuff makes up the majority of each season. It's just that they get the most of the attention in both western and eastern circles that everyone has come to the presumption that it's all that exists. Glancing at the list of shows each season is a simple enough technique to disprove the notion.

 

[squidyj]

I guess saying that Japanese focus on high school life suggests some cultural fascination, potentially obsession, with that time in life is just as ridiculous as saying that Americans seem to have deep unresolved issues with their relationship to morality and criminality as evidenced through the continual overflow of such shows.

Wait....

 

[InfiniteNine]

icecream I find the lack of tsundere megane combo button disturbing.

 

[John Blade]

It's 23 minutes per episode...

And I am not those people who want to wait for a week to see the next episode. I am those people who will watch the show from beginning to end. That`s how I see my show. Yea, I can waste that 23 minutes to watch it and see if I like it but if you know how TV show are, someone can screw it up along the way of the series and basically change the show quite literally. Don`t want to go through this again.

 

[icecream]

icecream I find the lack of tsundere megane combo button disturbing.

No one ever said you only had to pick one button, Infi~

 

[Enron]

icecream I find the lack of tsundere megane combo button disturbing.

This

 

[cosmicblizzard]

So.... not the original novel published 9 years prior to the hunger games then, okay.

I was being sarcastic, dude. The novel, movie and manga all star middle schoolers.

 

[Enron]

I was being sarcastic, dude. The novel, movie and manga all star middle schoolers.

cosmic, quit picking on this poor guy. WHY ARE YOU BEING SO INSULAR??

 

[cosmicblizzard]

You're right, I'm not. I was burnt so many times, I stopped reaching into the fire.

From what I've been hearing over the past couple years of not watching anything, I ain't missed much though. :\

The only way I can see someone not enjoying ANY anime in the last few years is if they just flat out don't like animation anymore. There have been a wide variety of solid series, plenty of which are completely devoid of moe.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

And there can only be one Blade here in this part of town.

Fight! Fight! Fight!

 

[squidyj]

I was being sarcastic, dude. The novel, movie and manga all star middle schoolers.

I guess we have a different understanding of what that means. Jr High School students.

 

[NoirVisage]

Which Battle Royale?

This one's based in high school too..wish i could find the other volumes of the anime.

 

[BGBW]

I said it once and I said it again, Kaiji is moé.

If you think that is a noseless girl then there is no hope for you and you'll never ever know the joys of moé.

 

[mrklaw]

Sarcasm, with a dash of disingenuousness, my dear.



Moé is simply a characteristic, an ideal. It does not have any extraneous connotations to it. Much like how media uses sexuality to sell and move products and advertising, so do some companies chose to utilize moé in the same manner, likely because other forms of tactics do not give a strong enough response fiscally to that particular demographic at this current time.

Do you personally consider Ghilbli moe? I wouldn't. If you do, then almost all anime is that has any females in at all. I'm not sure what moe is exactly, but it appears to be a certain amount of over-emphasis on cuteness, which ghibli doesn't do IMO.

Totoro in Laputa!?

 

[Jintor]

Totoro in Laputa!?

Holy shit.

Personally, moe has an element of crassness and commercial exploitation or to it (external to the fiction).

 

[Finaika]

Totoro in Laputa!?

OMG!

 

[plasticpassion]

Very late to the thread, but thanks for this.

 

[LeleSocho]

ITT: people can't distinguish moe from moeblob

 

[Grzi]

ITT: Anime-GAF making fun out of other posters and making me laugh pretty hard.

Anyway, people saying anime shows are not good anymore clearly have no idea what they're saying and they're just making excuses for their own laziness.
It's funny seeing people come out with these types of statements just when we're witnessing a season filled with like a dozen of amazing shows.