Support NeoGAF

[Speedymanic]

In the console market?

Both Sony and Ninty have had years to play catch up, both have released new handhelds and yet their overall online service is hardly that much better than when it launched. Sure, Sony have finally implemented CPC, but that's pretty much it. The service still isn't as elegant or as refined as XBL. The less said about Ninty's online offerings, the better.

Is the subscription the reason why it's so much better or does MS 'get' online better than either Sony and Ninty.

And what about next gen? Will Sony and to a less extent, Ninty be able to rise to the challenge set by MS this gen or will we get yet another gen where MS dominate in the online console market with their competitors playing catch up.

 

[Data West]

Do you just mean matchmaking/party chat?

Because xbox's online interface is currently the worst of all three.

 

[JB1981]

Because MS has spent the R&D on it far longer and is generally better at this stuff. Ninty doesn't have a clue and Sony is still catching up and honestly doesn't have the kind of capital or software knowhow MS does.

 

[H_Prestige]

Xbox 360 supercharges my internet connection. I don't know how it does it.

 

[TheOddOne]

Freelance PR For Microsoft

 

[bangai-o]

Do you just mean matchmaking/party chat?

Because xbox's online interface is currently the worst of all three.

how is it the worse?

 

[corporate cheerleader]

What's the matter? Didn't you have a great time with us in the weekly PlayStation Store threads?

 

[Persona7]

I wish Sony would not throttle downloads of patches and content from the store. Xbox Live maxes out my connection on every download.

 

[Data West]

how is it the worse?

Look at how cluttered everything is. It's also pumped full of ads where as Sony's ads are all in one area, and Nintendo's are nonexistent. I don't know how anyone can think the Metro UI is anything but terrible. Aside from their marketing partners, I mean.

 

[thelurkinghorror]

I really hoope someone can catch up the xbl so Microsoft con give up with the 60 buck per years... What we need is a close free service.

 

[Speedymanic]

Do you just mean matchmaking/party chat?

Because xbox's online interface is currently the worst of all three.

Explain.

Because MS has spent the R&D on it far longer and is generally better at this stuff. Ninty doesn't have a clue and Sony is still catching up and honestly doesn't have the kind of capital or software knowhow MS does.

I figured it might be this and it does seem to suggest that neither will be able to offer a service that's comparable to XBL next gen.

It isn't.
And i'm guessing all your friends are on 360, and you are american, yes?

Its all relative my friend.

Which online service is better than XBL?

As it happens, I have friends over PSN and XBL, but almost everyone buys online games exclusively on 360. There must be reason those people are willing to shell out for XBLG even though there's a free service available.

 

[Majine]

Isn't the Vita basically on par with XBL?

 

[Y2Kev]

It's kind of insane to say that PSN is "hardly much better than when it launched."

I don't think PSN on Vita is missing any real features. I have some ideas on how to make it better, but please explain.

 

[EvilDick34]

It isn't.
And i'm guessing all your friends are on 360, and you are american, yes?

Its all relative my friend.

What does anything have to do with him him possibly being American? Are YOU American?

 

[Majine]

What does anything have to do with him him possibly being American? Are YOU American?

The american XBL service is far superior to anywhere else in the world. In my country, XBL seems hardly worth the prize.

 

[Speedymanic]

It's kind of insane to say that PSN is "hardly much better than when it launched."

Has it improved significantly since launch? It hasn't improved all that much since I've had a PS3, but I did buy one a couple of years after launch. Can't even begin imagine how much worse it must have been before if the current online service is the improvement.

 

[Uno Venova]

After playing on both I don't see how one online service dominates the other, and definitely looking at the entry price of 60, XBL is not 60 dollars better. Saying it dominates Nintendo I can understand.

Last I saw Vita PSN matches up in features with XBL.

 

[coopolon]

It'd be easier to discuss this if you mentioned specifically what you think is better about XBL vs. PSN. Because as someone who doesn't play mutliplayer games very often, PSN is leagues better than XBL if for no other reason than it is free.

 

[JB1981]

Has it improved significantly since launch? It hasn't improved all that much since I've had a PS3, but I did buy one a couple of years after launch. Can't even begin imagine how much worse it must have been before if the current online service is the improvement.

dude the ps3 didn't even really have "online" when it first launched and the OS was as bare bones as all get out. i wish there was like a then and now video video of the PS3 OS on youtube or something.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Has it improved significantly since launch? It hasn't improved all that much since I've had a PS3, but I did buy one a couple of years after launch. Can't even begin imagine how much worse it must have been before if the current online service is the improvement.

You couldn't even see your friendslist or message someone while in a game when it launched (no ingame XMB). Also, no cross-game invites, group chat, trophies, etc...


Btw, is ingame voice chat on the Vita available for free or is it PSN+ only?

 

[entremet]

I use both, but I have better connections with XBL when playing fighting games. Both consoles are wireless in my set up.

 

[JABEE]

Explain.

The store's interface is terrible and the entire dashboard is cluttered with ads.

 

[Y2Kev]

You couldn't even see your friendslist or message someone while in a game when it launched (no ingame XMB). Also, no cross-game invites, group chat, trophies, etc...


Btw, is ingame voice chat on the Vita available for free or is it PSN+ only?

I don't think there's PSN+ on Vita.

 

[alphaNoid]

The infrastructure behind Live is what makes it the best. As a consumer, it just works and works well. When I haven't played a game in a year and I pop it in, I get 1 message telling me there is an update. Most likely there are about 10 updates to that game, but the way MS built Live and standardized everything means that all updates must be cumulative. This means regardless of how many updates a game or piece of software has.. I press A, one time and I get them all in a few seconds.

MS is a software giant and unified platforms and standardizing them is something that is their specialty. Sony is not a software company and it shows when you use PSN. The best part about PSN is its free to play online. And lets not kid ourselves, its only free as a marketable feature.. the only one they have against MS. Sony would do anything to get $250 million/yr from subscriptions like MS does. Don't pretend for a second they are giving you free online play because they are nice people. Other than that its painfully obvious how far behind their software team is when compared to MS. Just look at the Sony catalog of media they have stashed, yet here were are in 2012 and they still cannot figure out a way to just stomp the competition by delivering up those goods to consumers. Sony could completely own the living room if they wanted ... which I'm sure they do. They just lack the know how to make something like that happen. Its like a second world country trying to get to the Moon.

I'll even go as far to say that Live is unrivaled even on the PC. Its basically a closed platform unified gaming/media/social service that standardizes in every facet. It has its walls, so its not perfect.. no system is. But despite the constraints it does what it does and does it well.

Live is the best because it simply just 'works'. It was designed from the ground up, from the first line of code to now with easy and usability in mind. Its efficient and standard, and as a consumer you rarely if even ever see a hiccup with that experience. Sony unfortunately doesn't have enough talent on board to go toe to toe when it comes to these kinds of architected platforms. Nintendo? Nintendo refused to go big with online not because they see little value in it. They refuse because unlike Sony, they know they cannot play that game with MS. They continue riding that Mario/Zelda fanbase, and leveraging that innovative creative hive mind in the Wonka factory to appear cutting edge at each generation. All 3 bring something unique to the table, and all 3 have a place in this industry. Each company has its strengths and its weaknesses... but when talking about software development, and online infrastructure its Microsoft's back yard.

Live as it is today held back by 7 year old restraints on the 360. Expect to see features blow open next gen. Expect to see unified products and services between all MS products. True cross platform functionality between Xbox "Durango", Windows 8, Windows Phone 8 and other devices. The Xbox brand is big business now and MS has built an entire campus in Redmond for this Xbox 'team'. Some of the original brains behind WindowsNT code are now working on cloud services for the next Xbox. (http://www.bgr.com/2012/01/19/father-of-microsoft-windows-nt-joins-xbox-team/) They are treating the brand with as much respect as they do Windows and have big expectations for it over the next few years. There will be features on Live that are not possible on other platforms, mark my words.

This is something neither Sony nor Nintendo have the ability to produce or compete against. All they can do is try to keep up and they will always be doing so.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I don't think there's PSN+ on Vita.

Well, since you use the same account technically u can use the Vita with a PSN+ account. There's also discounts for vita games I think.


Anyway, it being free brings me hope it's gonna be free on PS4 as well.

 

[MRORANGE]

In the console market?

Both Sony and Ninty have had years to play catch up, both have released new handhelds and yet their overall online service is hardly that much better than when it launched. Sure, Sony have finally implemented CPC, but that's pretty much it. The service still isn't as elegant or as refined as XBL. The less said about Ninty's online offerings, the better.

Is the subscription the reason why it's so much better or does MS 'get' online better than either Sony and Ninty.

And what about next gen? Will Sony and to a less extent, Ninty be able to rise to the challenge set by MS this gen or will we get yet another gen where MS dominate in the online console market with their competitors playing catch up.

well it's the way each one looked at the online stratergy when the new generation started:

Xbox: Build upon online service, offer new content and online connectivity
Sony: Wait and see approach
Nintendo: Online gaming?

The latter two only really understood the benefit of Microsoft's model, It would be no surprise if the gap when next gen consoles that Sony and Nintendo do leaps over there current service.

 

[Fixed1979]

In the console market?

Both Sony and Ninty have had years to play catch up, both have released new handhelds and yet their overall online service is hardly that much better than when it launched. Sure, Sony have finally implemented CPC, but that's pretty much it. The service still isn't as elegant or as refined as XBL. The less said about Ninty's online offerings, the better.

Is the subscription the reason why it's so much better or does MS 'get' online better than either Sony and Ninty.

And what about next gen? Will Sony and to a less extent, Ninty be able to rise to the challenge set by MS this gen or will we get yet another gen where MS dominate in the online console market with their competitors playing catch up.

It's hard to have a discussion on the topic when you don't even explain why it's the best...a lot of people appear to disagree and you want their reasons. Why don't you share yours?

 

[Bukana]

Really , XBOX Live !?

First, the dashboard is pure garbage, I just played Halo Reach after a year because I was using my roommate's 360, what the hell happened to the dashboard!? it used to be simple and used to be all about Gaming, now it is all about Ads X Ads for movies, services, TV, and you had to go all that trouble to launch a game, such a horrible greedy company, comparing it to the PS3's simple and unique dashboard.

Oh, Vita's Online and OS is the superior in my opinion by far.

 

[Trevelyon]

Ninty..... urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

 

[TrounceX]

Technically it's not. I just became too invested in the XBL ecosystem when it actually was the superior service.

Leaving now would also mean leaving all 100 friends on my list, all of whom I know, and some of whom I've been gaming with for more than 5 years. No thanks, I'd rather pay $5 a month or whatever it is now.

 

[inky]

What does anything have to do with him him possibly being American? Are YOU American?

Because in other parts of the world you pay the same fee for a fraction of the services? It's really not that hard to understand.

 

[Pandaman]

Ninty..... urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

dont wanna be shortformed? better make your name short, Trev.

 

[jetsetfluken]

I've watched both Microsoft and Sony grow their online experience/firmwares since the launches of the PS3 and 360, and I can say that Sony has not done really much.

Microsoft just has it down pat. Little things even like being able to change your gamertag and deleting 0G achievement entries make a difference. All they're doing now is stacking on top of an already solid featureset.

For example, let's look at the achievement system (360) and trophy system (PS3). The trophy system has been hacked to bits and has turn into a complete playground, and I don't think I've ever heard of the word "ban" in Sony's vocabulary. They took action with the PSN hacks only because their reputation and finances were at stake moreso than user security. When a tacked on feature like Trophy support is manipulated, they could care less, because it has nothing to do with finances, and the press isn't talking about it to make them look bad.

Microsoft on the other hand, has their achievement system locked down, and if anyone does happen to tamper with the system, they are promptly banned after two or less reports. No way to report people on Sony's end, of course, though.

Sorry if the above example/comparison seems vapid, but it's a good representation of the differences of the companies and how they handle their online service.

Firmware update after firmware update with Sony people pray for useful features added, but what keeps happening are updates that are useless to the end user that Sony only labels as "security updates". When a feature is actually added, it's always something very, very minor like "Recommendations" in the PS Store (which needs an overhaul itself). Not to mention the frequent "maintenance downtimes" that on average take around 15 hours or more, with no explanation as to why by Sony; speculation that they were in preparation for a huge firmware update always unfortunately came to be false. The frequent maintenances do nothing for the end user but frustrate them.

Perhaps let's look at the PS Vita. It released in December 2011 in Japan, and people were wondering why on the PS3 that Vita friends would not only appear offline, but appear with no "last offline" date nor avatar, seems like a glitch, yes? Not only that, but Vita trophies don't even show up on the PS3 list, while they can easily show up on third party trophy listing websites alongside them. Now, skip to February 2012. Still nothing. Now, skip to now in May 2012. Still nothing. Is Sony this out of touch with their online service?

I play games and like to also complete games. Microsoft gave me an easy option to choose their service, after realizing cheaters cannot breath on their service, lest they even bother to cheat. Sony on the other hand, you're completing games that little teenagers are hacking with no punishment. It's Sony's problem, not mine. If they won't take their service seriously, then I won't take it seriously either, and play on the serious one.

 

[corporate cheerleader]

XBL - better online structure (except the ads, not even speedy likes them)
PSN - better *discounts/subscriptions

We can all agree on this, right?

 

[fluffydelusions]

Because MS is mainly a software company

 

[Apath]

Isn't the Vita basically on par with XBL?

It would be superior if it didnt constantly have to connect to PSN every time you want to do something, or sign you out of PSN in certain titles. I also wish there was an ingame guide rather than having to go back to the home screen every time I want to check something.

All of the features are there. It's just that disconnection that holds it back.

XBL - better online structure (except the ads, not even speedy likes them)
PSN - better prices on games/subscriptions

We can all agree on this, right?

How does PSN have better prices on games? They're pretty much the same in my experience.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I've watched both Microsoft and Sony grow their online experience/firmwares since the launches of the PS3 and 360, and I can say that Sony has not done really much.

Microsoft just has it down pat. Little things even like being able to change your gamertag and deleting 0G achievement entries make difference. All they're doing now is stacking on to an already solid featureset.

For example, let's look at the achievement system (360) and trophy system (PS3). The trophy system as been hacked to bits and has turn into a complete playground, and I don't think I've ever heard of the word "ban" in Sony's vocabulary. They took action with the PSN hacks only because their reputation and finances were at stake moreso than user security. When a tacked on feature like Trophy support is manipulated, they could care less, because it has nothing to do with finances, and sites the press isn't talking about it to make them look bad.

Firmware update after firmware update with Sony people pray for useful features added, but what keeps happening are updates that are useless to the end user that Sony only labels as "security updates". When a feature is actually added, it's always something very, very minor like "Recommendations" in the PS Store (which needs an overhaul itself).

Microsoft on the other hand, has their achievement system locked down, and if anyone does happen to tamper with the system, they are promptly banned after two or less reports. No way to report people on Sony s end, of course, though.

Sorry if the above example/comparison seems vapid, but it's a good representation of the differences of the companies and how they handle their online service.

Perhaps let's look at the PS Vita. It released in December 2011 in Japan, and people were wondering why on the PS3 that Vita friends would not only appear offline, but appear with no "last offline" date nor avatar, seems like a glitch, yes? Not only that, but Vita trophies don't even show up on the PS3 list, while they can easily show up on third party trophy listing websites alongside them. Now, skip to February 2012. Still nothing. Now, skip to now in May 2012. Still nothing. Is Sony this out of touch with their online service?

I play games and like to also complete games. Microsoft gave me an easy option to choose their service, after realizing cheaters cannot breath on their service, lest they even bother to cheat. Sony on the other hand, you're completing games that little teenagers are hacking with no punishment. It's Sony's problem, not mine. If they won't take their service seriously, then I won't take it seriously either, and play on the serious one.

Erm, Sony does ban people, also:
https://secure.eu.playstation.com/psn/support/grief-reporting/
http://np.us.playstation.com


You also shouldn't expect changes to the PS3 side without a firmware update, which we haven't had one in like 3 months, I guess they could have been even more frequent, so even more people complain about that. And without MS having a portable console I don't see how you can compare something like that.

I was also under the impression that cheating was MUCH more of a problem on XBL then PSN.

 

[jimi_dini]

Is the subscription the reason why it's so much better or ...

Wat?

So paying for something that is free everywhere else makes it superior? wat?

Freelance PR For Microsoft

Oh nevermind...

 

[Killthee]

You couldn't even see your friendslist or message someone while in a game when it launched (no ingame XMB). Also, no cross-game invites, group chat, trophies, etc...

Plus the store was a slow loading web page without background download support.

 

[Trevelyon]

dont wanna be shortformed? better make your name short, Trev.

Ninty.... it's like a horrible pet name you'd give to your girlfriend as you spoon on the couch.

douche chills every time. butidigress.

 

[corporate cheerleader]

How does PSN have better prices on games? They're pretty much the same in my experience.

LOL! Man, you should join us in the weekly threads and see how much discounts there are for regular users and even more when you have PS+. Yes, it's 50 a year, but if you're a download enthousiast you get so much more in return in the form of themes, avatars, game trials, huge sales etc. That's one thing PSN has over XBL, no denying that.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Plus the store was a slow loading web page without background download support.

[]http://i.imgur.com/zMAgv.jpg[/IMG]

Oh yeah, How could I have forgotten that -.-

Biggest WTF moment I ever had with the PS3.

 

[Pandaman]

Plus the store was a slow loading web page without background download support.

i seem to remember friendslists having a very low cutoff aswell.

 

[snap0212]

It would be superior if it didnt constantly have to connect to PSN every time you want to do something, or sign you out of PSN in certain titles. I also wish there was an ingame guide rather than having to go back to the home screen every time I want to check something.

All of the features are there. It's just that disconnection that holds it back.

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

 

[Glix]

Has it improved significantly since launch? It hasn't improved all that much since I've had a PS3, but I did buy one a couple of years after launch. Can't even begin imagine how much worse it must have been before if the current online service is the improvement.

explain (one of your own tricks) Explain how it is so bad "that you can't imagine how it could be much worse"

Terrible fanboy hyperbole.

 

[epmode]

Ninty..... urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

I know, right?

dont wanna be shortformed? better make your name short, Trev.

That doesn't explain "The Big N".

 

[bangai-o]

XBL - better online structure (except the ads, not even speedy likes them)
PSN - better prices on games/subscriptions

We can all agree on this, right?

are they not the same price? I know gaf has threads each time a PSN+ game goes on sale, but xbla games go on sale every week too.

 

[LQX]

Because XBL seemingly interrogates your online persona into its online service. I like PSN and love PSN+ but it all stills feels sort of disconnected. I feel no sort of attachment to the service like I do XBL. MS drops you in the middle of the mall, Sony drops you in the garage all the way at the far end of the mall.

 

[jetsetfluken]

Erm, Sony does ban people, also:
https://secure.eu.playstation.com/psn/support/grief-reporting/
http://np.us.playstation.com
I was also under the impression that cheating was MUCH more of a problem on XBL then PSN.

What I was referring to was Sony banning for Trophy manipulation or in game cheating/modding. They do nothing.
The "Grief Report" feature you cite is very lax, as it only applies to harassment-based messages, in which I hear they don't even do anything about besides a few old US PlayStation Home suspensions due to cussing.
Sony does not have teams of people to crack the whip on this stuff. Microsoft does.

Funnily enough, they may or may not take lax action to Little Billy calling Little Johnny's momma fat in a text message, but if you manipulate the Trophy system or cheat/mod games, it's totally fine.

 

[antiquegamer]

I think the best part about Live is that it's fast when come to patching... I have recently switch to playing more game on PC but man if Steam update is so slow. Let not get into PS3 update ... sometimes it take me hours to get all the update on old game. I have great connection and never have problem with 360 update game, usually take less than a min.

Party chat is also easy to use ... my son (also got new PC, is connect to Live while he's playing game like Mount & Blade) I ask him why doesn't he use Vent he said well it's easier and most of my friend are on Live anyway. They can set beacon get party together and chat while some play on Xbox and other play on PC.

As for the new dash, I have gotten use to it but I as much as I love Metro on Windows Phone, the lack of customization and hidden all your app away under the store front is just plain annoying. Also those "noisy" ads have got to go but I doubt that will happen anytime soon.