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Microsoft told Pachter their E3 focus is on services over games, is this a good idea?

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Microsoft's completely 180'd from what most people/"gamers" want over the course of three-four years. It's delicious in a trainwreck watching fashion, but terrible for 360 owners. :(

So, no, it's an extremely bad idea. But knowing Microsoft it's extremely possible their conference is going to be just that.

I trade in my 360 for peak dollar at just the right time. MS doesn't care about games, reminds me of this.

kanyespeaksthetruth4dd.jpg
 

Patryn

Member
It'll roll back next year. I think Nintendo has taught Microsoft and Sony that to get that initial solid beachhead with a console, you need to appeal to the hardcore gamer. Next year, when they reveal the new consoles, Microsoft and Sony will be tripping over one another showing off the core games.

But that's not this year.
 

Rad-

Member
Not a good idea and I don't like it but the fact is that ever since MS started pushing the more service focused system, their sales exploded. So the business guy in me totally gets it. The gamer not so much.
 

jetjevons

Bish loves my games!
E3 is about electronic entertainment. Is the 360 currently the best (and most affordable) option for delivering the broadest spectrum of electronic entertainment experiences to your living room in NA? I would argue yes.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
E3 is about electronic entertainment. Is the 360 currently the best (and most affordable) option for delivering the broadest spectrum of electronic entertainment experiences to your living room in NA? I would argue yes.

You're just talking about the three consoles, right? Because the 360 is no match for even a low-tier PC.
 
Really funny how MS is trying to completely alienate the hardcore base, while 3rd parties are still saving them. This might bite back in future generations.
 
E3 is about electronic entertainment. Is the 360 currently the best (and most affordable) option for delivering the broadest spectrum of electronic entertainment experiences to your living room in NA? I would argue yes.

It's a toss up. The 360 has HBO Go, and the PS3 has Blu-Ray. If/when the PS3 gets HBO Go it will be my ultimate media box.
 

Dunlop

Member
Really funny how MS is trying to completely alienate the hardcore base, while 3rd parties are still saving them. This might bite back in future generations.

Why? Microsoft is focusing on services to increase their userbase and because of that the 3rd parties have less first party competition and their games sell like gangbusters.

I would be happier with this criteria that say Nintendo where you know the majority of sales will always be with their first party offerings.

fake edit: rereading that, you might mean the actual hardcore user..then meh. We like to think we have more importance than we actually do, there will be a dip in earlier adopters and life will continue
 

see5harp

Member
Really funny how MS is trying to completely alienate the hardcore base, while 3rd parties are still saving them. This might bite back in future generations.

It's really funny that you geniunely think MS is trying to "completely alienate the hardcore base." I'm sure they had high level meetings where executives set out their plans to sabotage their own presentation in order to kill off their hardcore fans.
 
Really funny how MS is trying to completely alienate the hardcore base, while 3rd parties are still saving them. This might bite back in future generations.

I think it's more.

MS knows that the hardcore are happy with the 3rd party content and that their focus should be on delivering a platform which will a) support the third parties, b) generate income and appeal outside of the gaming industy, c)fill in the gaps with their current core lineup.

It's like apple with IOS, apple creates the product and services which users want while allowing for 3rd parties to create the content that drives the platform forward. MS is creating the xbox as a platform, xbla and 3rd party studios can develop the software which drives the platform. The more popular the xbox becomes, the more the xbox sells, the more services it provides, the more developers will develop for it and the less microsoft has to rely on their own studios.

Also, MS's first party liscenses are just as good as sony's so I dont understand the all the first part MGS hate.
 

KageMaru

Member
I trade in my 360 for peak dollar at just the right time. MS doesn't care about games, reminds me of this.

Oh..what used to be. Only a few years ago. Just firing core game after game.

Really funny how MS is trying to completely alienate the hardcore base, while 3rd parties are still saving them. This might bite back in future generations.

Did you three express the same attitude towards Sony when they mostly relied on 3rd party support for their core audience?
 

alphaNoid

Banned
I think dedicated gaming 'devices', handheld or stationary are becoming a thing of the past. Media content a la carte, including music, movies and games are all rapidly becoming available and creating a single device that can do it all means more revenue for these companies. Everything is getting virtualized and will be in the cloud before long. The days of yesteryear are rapidly becoming the days of old. The market will never be what it was, its changing... and probably for the better.

The average consumer probably see's less value in a single media device these days. I'm not sure I really agree with how the market has changed but it has changed. People like us, the hardcore enthusiasts are always going to fight change, but we will always be the vocal minority and our tastes do not, nor will ever dictate the market in large.

We are being bred out by a younger generation of gamers who want more from their devices. We are being invaded by a crowd of non gamers who are buying into devices that do more than just games as well.

The lone gamer is a dying breed.
 

YoungHav

Banned
This is a great strategy IMO. When it comes to games Microsoft is done w/the 360 and are focusing on the 720. They are building their nuclear stockpile up for the 720 launch, PS4 and Wii U won't have a chance. This is long-term warfare.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think dedicated gaming 'devices', handheld or stationary are becoming a thing of the past. Media content a la carte, including music, movies and games are all rapidly becoming available and creating a single device that can do it all means more revenue for these companies. Everything is getting virtualized and will be in the cloud before long. The days of yesteryear are rapidly becoming the days of old. The market will never be what it was, its changing... and probably for the better.

The average consumer probably see's less value in a single media device these days. I'm not sure I really agree with how the market has changed but it has changed. People like us, the hardcore enthusiasts are always going to fight change, but we will always be the vocal minority and our tastes do not, nor will ever dictate the market in large.

We are being bred out by a younger generation of gamers who want more from their devices. We are being invaded by a crowd of non gamers who are buying into devices that do more than just games as well.

The lone gamer is a dying breed.

Here's the thing. This was always going to happen, period. Video games are just information; data.

Kids grew up thinking that plastic cartridges or specially formatted DVDs were games, but those were just the delivery system for the information.

So in the long run, complete virtualization was always the end game. Everything would be data delivered to the person who wanted it on agnostic platforms.

Having said that, how we get to the end game does matter.

Where gaming could be hurt is in compromises forced on it because the technology and infrastructure for the ultimate data agnostic world isn't mature, but the market is pushing for it so companies try to deliver it before its time.

The perfect example is the smartphone and tablet gaming 'revolution'. The prototypical iPad tablet is not a good all purpose gaming device because it can't adequately serve all users. It doesn't present all the pre-requisite interfaces to serve all kinds of gamers, being tilted towards 'casual' touch interface software.

By comparison, a device like the Vita is actually a more mature data agnostic device. It's capable of serving virtually all users of gaming data, having a multi-touch display of sufficient size along with the interface gadgets required for games that don't work with touch alone.

But the Vita is still a closed, proprietary platform. People still have to choose between a Vita (get a richer gaming experience) or one of the current tablets (get access to either a huge range of iOS apps, or to a more open Android environment at the cost of functionality as a rich gaming device).

Everybody always debated a "one console future" because people were stuck in the hardware wars mentality and arguing which gaming company would dominate and destroy all others. But the truth is that the one console future, is the one platform future. Eventually all information will be served to all computing devices. If you want to play a shooter than is built for two thumbsticks, you buy the Vita-like device. If you just want to play games on the level of casual iOS games, you buy the device that is just a screen.

I think we probably still have a few more generations before seeing that world however. Everyone still has too much invested in their own proprietary platforms and walled gardens.
 

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
iPad is the winner. The TV hasn't ended up being the central hub for most people, which obviously took Microsoft by surprise and why Apple has risen so mightily while Microsoft has tread water, at best. If the TV ever is the central hub, it won't be through an Xbox, as far as I can tell. Sales are simply too low for the sort of media hub dominance we're talking about: Apple sells as many iPads in one quarter as Microsoft sells Xboxes in a year.
THAT'S A BINGO!

Looking over this thread I was shocked to see how long it took for Apple to be mentioned. Microsoft are still clinging to a vision of the future born of mid 90s thinking. Their battle to control the living room looks increasingly irrelevant as it becomes clear that the true media convergence device is the tablet computer. It can handle all the multimedia functions an Xbox can hope to, and more, and you can take it with you wherever you go. It's simply a superior user experience. Apple already have in Appletv the means to display your iPad content on a television screen. In their vision, the 'living room' is just another box to tick off.

Microsoft are aggressively pushing their multimedia functionality now in the hopes of establishing themselves as living room kings before the competition can get a foothold, but I think it's a fool's errand. Tim Cook calls Appletv a 'hobby' for the company, but if they are to get serious about TV and set-top box products (as rumours suggest they will) I expect them to swiftly eclipse Microsoft's mind and marketshare. Over the past decade, Apple have consistently outmanoeuvred Microsoft and delivered a better user experience, but even if they don't produce a radically better product, they have branding on their side. It's going to take a lot more than what Microsoft is doing right now for Xbox to be viewed primarily as a multimedia gateway, rather than a gaming console. Apple are already known as a multimedia service provider, and any new brand they introduce will have a fresh start in public perception.

Microsoft are in danger of spending much money, time and resources on repositioning the Xbox brand and damaging their image among enthusiast gamers in the process, only to have the living-room convergence machine dream snatched away from them. Where do they turn then?
 
Did you three express the same attitude towards Sony when they mostly relied on 3rd party support for their core audience?

What attitude?

Sony's philiosophy was to build up a stable base of excellent 1st party studios over time. MS has started strong but now most of them are closed. I don't see the correlation.
 
What attitude?

Sony's philiosophy was to build up a stable base of excellent 1st party studios over time. MS has started strong but now most of them are closed. I don't see the correlation.

uh, I dont what your talking about but MS has more first party studios now then they ever did.

They've also released more exclusives since the launch of kinect then they ever have.
 

KageMaru

Member
I think dedicated gaming 'devices', handheld or stationary are becoming a thing of the past. Media content a la carte, including music, movies and games are all rapidly becoming available and creating a single device that can do it all means more revenue for these companies. Everything is getting virtualized and will be in the cloud before long. The days of yesteryear are rapidly becoming the days of old. The market will never be what it was, its changing... and probably for the better.

The average consumer probably see's less value in a single media device these days. I'm not sure I really agree with how the market has changed but it has changed. People like us, the hardcore enthusiasts are always going to fight change, but we will always be the vocal minority and our tastes do not, nor will ever dictate the market in large.

We are being bred out by a younger generation of gamers who want more from their devices. We are being invaded by a crowd of non gamers who are buying into devices that do more than just games as well.

The lone gamer is a dying breed.

This sad but true logic has no place in this thread.

You can't possibly be talking about this generation.

No no, not at all.

I just find it interesting when people are willing to accept some things one gen just to ridicule it the next based on the companies involved.

Edit:

What attitude?

Sony's philiosophy was to build up a stable base of excellent 1st party studios over time. MS has started strong but now most of them are closed. I don't see the correlation.

Maybe attitude was too strong of a word.

I was just curious whether people reacted the same way towards Sony the last two generations when they didn't have such a strong collection of 1st party studios.

What point are you trying to make?

Just curious is all. If these same people also make similar comments towards Sony during prior generations then we at least know they can be fair with their way of thinking.
 

Dave Long

Banned
To answer the question posed by the original post... it doesn't matter.

It's been clear the last couple years that no matter how bad a press conference is with regard to games, it has little effect on the outcome as far as gamers are concerned. People will buy what they find interesting, which meant Kinect succeeded while gamers said it would and should fail.

Gamers just don't hold the cards anymore, or they simply aren't caring that Microsoft are kind of disinterested in them now as long as the new Call of Duty or Hot Game X works on their system. Skyrim was there. GTA. Call of Duty. Battlefield. Etc. As long as that happens, Microsoft can ignore gamer outcry over a conference.



Personally, I would rather all these services stay out of my box. Let it play the movie format of the moment or stream Netflix. That's ok. The rest is a waste.
 

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
Sony's philiosophy was to build up a stable base of excellent 1st party studios over time. MS has started strong but now most of them are closed. I don't see the correlation.
MS has 18 studios; they've been quietly building up their first-party portfolio over time. I mean, I know the direction they're taking the 360 now is a little undesirable for many people, but that was expected. They always intended to do this since the first Xbox. I think when they finally reveal the next Xbox, we will see a major push from them to try and attract as many core gamers as they can.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Sony's philiosophy was to build up a stable base of excellent 1st party studios over time. MS has started strong but now most of them are closed. I don't see the correlation.

Yeah...hindsight being 20/20, I wonder if Sony believes they made the right call. It hasn't done a thing for them and they resorted to closing some shops.

Gamers just don't hold the cards anymore, or they simply aren't caring that Microsoft are kind of disinterested in them now as long as the new Call of Duty or Hot Game X works on their system. Skyrim was there. GTA. Call of Duty. Battlefield. Etc. As long as that happens, Microsoft can ignore gamer outcry over a conference.

Personally, I would rather all these services stay out of my box. Let it play the movie format of the moment or stream Netflix. That's ok. The rest is a waste.

I like you. Can we be friends? =D
 

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
...
Everybody always debated a "one console future" because people were stuck in the hardware wars mentality and arguing which gaming company would dominate and destroy all others. But the truth is that the one console future, is the one platform future. Eventually all information will be served to all computing devices. If you want to play a shooter than is built for two thumbsticks, you buy the Vita-like device. If you just want to play games on the level of casual iOS games, you buy the device that is just a screen.
Excellent post, as always.

The recent rumour of a game controller accessory project for iPad is really interesting. If it's true and the product reaches the market, it marks a turn away from the absolutist Jobs approach to platform design, where anyone who wishes to produce content for an Apple platform must adhere to their vision and requirements of it (in the case of iPad, touch interface only), to one of fragmenting the platform if it means potential growth. If the controller can be attached comfortably to the iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch, they could be turned into all-purpose gaming platforms as good as anything else on the market.
From the position they are in now, Apple don't have to do much to absorb the dedicated gaming handheld niche. The question is whether taking the steps needed to achieve this market growth would clash too much with their overall vision.
 

tinfoilhatman

all of my posts are my avatar
It's a bad idea imo, because E3 is about games. The audience paying attention to E3 is the core gamer and they want to hear about games. There are plenty of other conferences to showcase this stuff like CES.

Unless they can delivery Cable TV channels "ala cart" they can take their gold subscription cost and eat it since I don't play online games.
 
I love that people still think the MS should be focusing on games without understanding the current economic situation in the tech industry.

Microsoft is trying to capture the living room while also trying to deliver a cohesive experience for end users across as many devices as possible. They're goal is to sell a platform, not games, and that's what they've been doing. Of course their focus this year is going to be on services, they're launching the windows 8 and they going to use every opportunity to make MS's platforms look good, the new xbox is going to be coming out soon, they have to make xbox live and intergrating it across pc, phone, and console.

Microsoft is competing with apple and google, not sony and nintendo.

Microsoft has their killer apps, they have their games which make them money and which sell hardware, they have their liscenses and they're just doing the same thing as nintendo. Now look at sony, the unsung hero of "hardcore" console gaming right now, they announces 10 games, and 3 get released, the rest stuck in development hell or fail to chart. Where's agent, where's the last guardian? Why follow this path?
 

evolution

Member
Not suprised, I think it's always been their agenda when they entered the industry. It's a losing battle especially when you consider this generation is coming to an end.
 
We are being bred out by a younger generation of gamers who want more from their devices. We are being invaded by a crowd of non gamers who are buying into devices that do more than just games as well...

well put. personally, i can't help but see much replaying of beloved classics on my gaming horizon :) ...
 

Dunlop

Member
Not suprised, I think it's always been their agenda when they entered the industry. It's a losing battle especially when you consider this generation is coming to an end.

They have openly said the end goal was a all in on "entertainment box" since the days of the original XBOX
 
Spin off the 360 with Kinect into the platform for services and casual games now because that's a good way to continue to expand the market for the console. Save all of the "big games" on the horizon for the Xbox 720 and have a huge blowout of big games next E3.

It's pretty clear they don't have a large number of exclusive games that would differentiate the console this late in the life cycle, so it's better to make the focus on a strength rather than a weakness. :/
 

KageMaru

Member
MS has 18 studios; they've been quietly building up their first-party portfolio over time. I mean, I know the direction they're taking the 360 now is a little undesirable for many people, but that was expected. They always intended to do this since the first Xbox. I think when they finally reveal the next Xbox, we will see a major push from them to try and attract as many core gamers as they can.

Wait, what?

I knew they opened and purchased a few in the last year or two, but I had no idea they had that many.
 
THAT'S A BINGO!

Looking over this thread I was shocked to see how long it took for Apple to be mentioned. Microsoft are still clinging to a vision of the future born of mid 90s thinking. Their battle to control the living room looks increasingly irrelevant as it becomes clear that the true media convergence device is the tablet computer. It can handle all the multimedia functions an Xbox can hope to, and more, and you can take it with you wherever you go. It's simply a superior user experience. Apple already have in Appletv the means to display your iPad content on a television screen. In their vision, the 'living room' is just another box to tick off.

Microsoft are aggressively pushing their multimedia functionality now in the hopes of establishing themselves as living room kings before the competition can get a foothold, but I think it's a fool's errand. Tim Cook calls Appletv a 'hobby' for the company, but if they are to get serious about TV and set-top box products (as rumours suggest they will) I expect them to swiftly eclipse Microsoft's mind and marketshare. Over the past decade, Apple have consistently outmanoeuvred Microsoft and delivered a better user experience, but even if they don't produce a radically better product, they have branding on their side. It's going to take a lot more than what Microsoft is doing right now for Xbox to be viewed primarily as a multimedia gateway, rather than a gaming console. Apple are already known as a multimedia service provider, and any new brand they introduce will have a fresh start in public perception.

Microsoft are in danger of spending much money, time and resources on repositioning the Xbox brand and damaging their image among enthusiast gamers in the process, only to have the living-room convergence machine dream snatched away from them. Where do they turn then?

And it's funny, as they're making good money off the console division...at all for once. Of course, that's the way the last 7-odd years has gone, you're failing even if you are making money hand over fist if someone else is making more.
 

Proelite

Member
I think both MS and Sony should be focusing their first party efforts on making games for the 720 / PS4 at this points.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
An X360 will still get exclusives while a underpowered computer won't.

We're still talking about 'bang for your buck' as an entertainment device. So while the console will get exclusives, it still charges you for a bunch of services that are free on a PC. Not to mention the wider berth of games that are available on a PC that is free or near free (as long as you have an internet connection). There's a huge world of 'backward compatible' gaming available to a PC user that does not exist on the 360.

So, not only is the PC the most cost effective entertainment device, it is also the most cost effective gaming device.

I guess the big knock is that an individual has to be motivated enough to seek this out. It's not presented to you in a tidy, all-inclusive package.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Did you three express the same attitude towards Sony when they mostly relied on 3rd party support for their core audience?

I didn't game on consoles much before this gen, so I don't really care what they did in years past, but I like their plan now. They invest in studios to make games I like. The better question is why are there not more pissed off 360 owners, the same ones that loved the 2007 meme "ps3 has no games".
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I didn't game on consoles much before this gen, so I don't really care what they did in years past, but I like their plan now. They invest in studios to make games I like. The better question is why are there not more pissed off 360 owners, the same ones that loved the 2007 meme "ps3 has no games".

Because the 360 has always had a healthy offering of AAA games, even if most of them have been third party/multiplat games?
 
Sure makes for a boring as hell E3 conference. Glad to know I won't be missing much on June 4 [not too interested in Sony at this point].
 
uh, I dont what your talking about but MS has more first party studios now then they ever did.

They've also released more exclusives since the launch of kinect then they ever have.

But what are those studios actually doing? Are they preparing for the 720 or are they just pumping out Kinect shovelware?

We've seen an unprecendented target audience shift from MS and it will be very interesting to see how it works for them next gen.
 
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