That point I get, but your point was about game development.
If you came from the perspective of game diversity, then you have a point, but them not being intrested in game development is wrong.
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Microsoft told Pachter their E3 focus is on services over games, is this a good idea?
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
If you came from the perspective of game diversity, then you have a point, but them not being intrested in game development is wrong.
I guess they got what they wanted, since the Wii's the champion of the living room this generation. But the Wii being prominent in living/communal rooms makes it all the more obvious why Microsoft introduced their "Kinect trojan horse, then make it a media center" strategy this late in the gen.
StealthGoblin
Banned
This will probably be my least favourite conference then. E3 is about games for me.
The day will come when Sony and Nintendo do more of this, but I'd rather that day be as far away as possible.
The day will come when Sony and Nintendo do more of this, but I'd rather that day be as far away as possible.
I came in to post exactly this. They pulled out of CES, but CES is what stuff like this is for, the only people that really want to watch E3 are big gaming fans. Not seeing games will only irritate Xbox fans.
I understand why some gamers here are mad, but really, what benefit would MS have in showing new console IPs this late into the gen? They would just get overlooked by the bigger 3rd party titles and Halo.
It's better to save them for the new next gen console; the new IPs will have a better chance at being a new franchise. Why? Since the new IP will be known as a reason to buy the console. Similar to how Gears was known as the game to get if one was getting a 360. Having new IPs early in a console's life means that more people will give it attention. As can be seen with Sony right now, outside of gamers on forums, very few know about their new IPs. Why? Because the popular 3rd party games are making them get overlooked. It's funny how due to MS taking this position some are saying "They don't care about games!"... if anything this should show that THEY DO care about games since they are trying to give new IPs a better chance at being successful via having them tied to a new next gen console during the early part of it's life.
So while gamers may not like it (and it's understandable as to why), MS is playing it smart. They are closing out the 360 with one HUGE exclusive (Halo 4), and great 3rd party support for core gamers. For "casuals" who just bought a 360, they will continue on giving them media & social networking services as well as kinect games. With this, they are making the transition for the 360 to continue on selling to casuals once the new Xbox is out (with the new Xbox mostly being bought by core gamers during its first few years).
It's better to save them for the new next gen console; the new IPs will have a better chance at being a new franchise. Why? Since the new IP will be known as a reason to buy the console. Similar to how Gears was known as the game to get if one was getting a 360. Having new IPs early in a console's life means that more people will give it attention. As can be seen with Sony right now, outside of gamers on forums, very few know about their new IPs. Why? Because the popular 3rd party games are making them get overlooked. It's funny how due to MS taking this position some are saying "They don't care about games!"... if anything this should show that THEY DO care about games since they are trying to give new IPs a better chance at being successful via having them tied to a new next gen console during the early part of it's life.
So while gamers may not like it (and it's understandable as to why), MS is playing it smart. They are closing out the 360 with one HUGE exclusive (Halo 4), and great 3rd party support for core gamers. For "casuals" who just bought a 360, they will continue on giving them media & social networking services as well as kinect games. With this, they are making the transition for the 360 to continue on selling to casuals once the new Xbox is out (with the new Xbox mostly being bought by core gamers during its first few years).
When I see people only naming those titles and not buying new IP's (Alan Wake, hint hint) my head starts to hurt. That said, they all sell pretty good still, compared to Sony first party games?
Agreed. At this point, larger new IP's should be moving to 720 anyway. If they are within a few months of finishing, then do it for 360 but some titles might actually benefit from dragging out till 720 arrives, well, depending on how good the game is. No amount of tech is going to make Fable: The Journey great.
I think the point isn't about this E3. Most people view Microsoft as using the 360 to get into peoples home as an entertainment hub. Now that they have most expect them to pull back a lot on games, meaning this isn't about E3 2012, it's about every E3 in the future, so people don't view this as Microsoft saving a bunch of new IP's for next-gen, they view this as Microsft not really planning on doing much from a gaming perspective, at all in the future.
Papa Justify
Neo Member
Gaming as service is the future, making consoles to multi-functional set-top-boxes, too.
1 Gaming console
1 Blu-ray player
1 Media server
1 TV receiver
all in one box.
So you buy a PlayStation or an Xbox and you need nothing else. That is the next big market.
1 Gaming console
1 Blu-ray player
1 Media server
1 TV receiver
all in one box.
So you buy a PlayStation or an Xbox and you need nothing else. That is the next big market.
StealthGoblin
Banned
and if you aren't into Halo 4 any more, you get 10 minutes of COD at the beginning. Then you can just sleep through the rest of it.
This whole notion of them backing off game development isn’t very valid. The adding of services has not stopped them from game development houses and publishing deals. Just because the titles themselves do not appeal to you, doesn’t mean they stopped making them.
Seems people are reading stuff or deliberately reading stuff into services that even the competitors have added to their own consoles.
Bgamer90 point is also spot on, go see sales for new IP's in the last two years.
I really don't see the use for these comments. Look I can do it too: God of War *boring*, PS all star *boring*, Vita *boring*... welp that is that then.
See, useless.
cripterion
Member
I live in Japan, so I could care less about their services lol. It's all about the games in my opinion.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Calm down sunshine, it was a joke. We are on a core-gamers gaming forum. The joke was that the only core stuff they'll have will be Halo 4 and a COD demo at the beginning (as per usual).
I do wonder how they will fill this conference though. Forza will be there, but other than that I'm running dry for ideas.
UberTag
Member
So long as Microsoft is allocating resources towards a boatload of gaming exclusives (first, second & third-party) for their next platform I could care less about what they roll out at E3 game-wise this year.
They will continue to be the defacto main platform for most third-party titles so they should be devoting most of their attention towards entrenching Xbox hardware as a media hub for ALL consumers (gaming or otherwise).
I would like to see them be a little more proactive tapping into more robust gameplay avenues for Kinect instead of letting that functionality be largely glossed over (as in Mass Effect 3) or added months after a title's launch (as in Skyrim). They need to start introducing Kinect functionality that drives people to WANT it available as something unique & essential in a way that refines the gaming experience as opposed to being a mere gimmick or distraction. And when they do they need to ensure it gets hyped up and not lost in the shuffle.
They will continue to be the defacto main platform for most third-party titles so they should be devoting most of their attention towards entrenching Xbox hardware as a media hub for ALL consumers (gaming or otherwise).
I would like to see them be a little more proactive tapping into more robust gameplay avenues for Kinect instead of letting that functionality be largely glossed over (as in Mass Effect 3) or added months after a title's launch (as in Skyrim). They need to start introducing Kinect functionality that drives people to WANT it available as something unique & essential in a way that refines the gaming experience as opposed to being a mere gimmick or distraction. And when they do they need to ensure it gets hyped up and not lost in the shuffle.
I don't mind a joke or two, but I've seen this song and dance enough times.
Well Microsoft makes more money from all the other parts of thier company, Sony is only making profits from it's gaming divison, and Nintendo doesn't do anything else but games. So while the other companies have apps and stuff, it is pretty easy to see why some are jumping to conclusions, Microsoft doesn't need gaming, where as Sony and Nintendo can't survive without it. It just naturally makes Microsoft the one to be content with being an entertainment box that plays games, while Sony and Nintendo make game consoles that can be used for other things.
I think Microsoft will continue to be involved with gaming, because the Xbox is their best consumer name product, it gives them street cred, they can use gaming to accomplish other things so their's no reason to bail. I just think in the future Microsft won't make many core new IP's, they will be a good console with good games, but there will only be 2-3 mainline Micrsoft franchises, the rest of their exclusives will be Kinect games, they of course will continue to aim at being the big third-pary console. That's still a gaming console, but they aren't going to try as much niche gaming stuff as the others.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Well, people have been right a few times too. Microsoft's last few E3's have left a lot to be desired for the market watching the conference.
Maybe they'll roll out Phil Harrison to introduce a few things. That would keep me interested.
While I understand some people were disappointed with Microsoft E3 performance for two years running, for me though there have been some highlights ― specially the Halo Reclaimer trilogy being announced and 360 Slim.
The long stretches of Kinect parts have been irritating to say the least, which took away from a pretty decent conference. Still, outside the idea that I find introducing new IP’s late this gen, I still wish they would publish and develop more. More in line with the fantastic XBLA games they have been publishing.
Looking at how far their XBLA publishing has been this year, with very niche titles being published, I think they will introduce more core next gen.
IonicSnake
Banned
I don't know where this "win" E3 comes from, it's like GOTY games. Everyone have their own GOTY. Some will enjoy it, others wont which can be said about any conference.
But I think we all enjoy the gifs and neogaf threads that comes after.
E3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFtb3EtjEic
But I think we all enjoy the gifs and neogaf threads that comes after.
E3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFtb3EtjEic
StealthGoblin
Banned
They have a lot more studios now, so although I suspect a lot of their new announcements will be Kinect games, or very Kinect enabled, I think they'll be fine for the Nextbox. They'll have to switch them over to 'core' games for that because those are the people that buy first. The number of studios under their belts rivals Sony now. Sony are close to 30 exclusive developers if 2nd party are included (ones with a contract with Sony).
The EU studios should flourish under Harrison. They have a studio in Soho, close to Sony's London studio.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
MS are in a terrible spot right now for me. I hope there are a few exclusives at E3 otherwise they've lost me til next gen.
Ventilaator
Banned
After Microsoft's last 2 E3s I laugh at anyone who was expecting to hear about new games they care about.
Officerrob
Banned
Microsoft continues to show that they have no idea what to do with E3. Services are nice and they should spend about 5-10 minutes on them, but that's it.
I hope your right, it's not like I'm not an Microsoft fan, I've done my online gaming exclusively on my 360, I really want them to grow on the gaming side. I just have my doubts, I think Microsoft's Kinect focus will only grow with next-gen, it wouldn't surprise me if from here on out Kinect always gets most of the stage time, as I think they might even package Kinect 2.0 with the console next-gen.
You may be right, and I may just be an Xbox fan that feels the first half of the 360 life-cycle was great, where as the back-half I was kind of cheated, but I really don't think Microsoft will try and deliver many first-party games in the future that aren't massive franchises or Kinect based. I think Microsoft will be content being the big third-party console, that delivers a different experience with Kinect, and has a big franchise or 2, like Halo.
I guess my point was they aren't going to try and publish games that might only be around 1M sellers, it's just going to be really big games from them, and if you want something else then a third-party developer is going to have to come up with it, and with rising dev costs I'm just worried that unless risks are taken by a first-party that has money, like Microsft, then when it comes to new franchises we won't see as many because third-parties won't be able to afford to take risks, so basically I'm just concerned that if you minus Kinect games next-gen, you won't see as many different games on the Xbox shelf next-gen, as other companies.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I don't see how working on apps in lieu of games is a good thing. Didn't you people buy an Xbox 360 to play videogames?!
Their focus is on making XBL more enticing, so they can jack rates up more, and keep people tied to their hardware brand.
Their focus is on making XBL more enticing, so they can jack rates up more, and keep people tied to their hardware brand.
While it is nice to see them involved in getting new studios off the ground, I’m pretty skeptical if much will come out of them.
The best examples where internally developed studios have flourished under Microsoft is Turn10 and 343 Industries. Both have an established brand under them and are specifically made to produce those franchises. They set the tone and development, nobody will fault Microsoft for going the extra mile to get the best in the biz for those studios.
The other studios on the other hand, are going to be either helping out a larger internal produced product or will introduce new IP. This worries me, because well Microsoft cancels more then it produces. Maybe mentality has changed? Ugh, I doubt it.
The biggest thing people often forget is that their best games where not internally developed, but they were published by them ― look at Gears of War and Mass Effect.
Terrible example to give, but Microsoft recently cancelled Obsidian’s launch titles which they where publishing. Which shows that they are still going after more core oriented games.
Pachterballs
Banned
Objectively; outside of HALO, I really don't think there's anything coming to x360 worth getting excited about - isn't it all multiplatform? MS has basically stepped away from making games so I see this as a natural progression - not that it don't suck; but I'm seriously not surprised. Btw this and the $15/mo xbox+kinect deal... They have a different vision for their platform.
Also no doubt, the focus is on next gen and to parlay the current tech into a sustainable easy cash flow.
Also no doubt, the focus is on next gen and to parlay the current tech into a sustainable easy cash flow.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Bad for gamers, good for business.
EvilDick34
Banned
I honestly thought Microsoft gave up on the pipe dream of owning the family living through "services" with a set top box. This would neatly explain why Microsoft never jumped into the handheld arena.
UberTag
Member
We did buy Xbox 360s to play video games.
We bought. We played. We still enjoy many 3rd party titles.
Microsoft needs to be allocating game development resources towards giving us reasons to buy their NEXT Xbox to enjoy video games. And anything they roll out this gen to drive up profits to ensure that will be the reality is good for us.
We just won't be seeing the payoff until Durango hits. Until then it's all about getting as many casuals on the Xbox train as possible and that won't be done by releasing hardcore exclusives in Year 8.
IBuyEveryGame
Banned
It doesnt matter what Sony or MS are doing, they are followers. All that matters is what Apple is doing, which we will see later this year. They will again, set the market.
Nintendo however, innovates just a tad, or appears to, so they should be remotely interesting. Wii U, again, the idea set by Apple.
Thats really it, so whatever they show this year is a precurser, or less <2% of what Apple has leaked to them.
I know most of you are under 16, and so you will proclaim Apple fanboyism, and thats ok, you know no better.
Nintendo however, innovates just a tad, or appears to, so they should be remotely interesting. Wii U, again, the idea set by Apple.
Thats really it, so whatever they show this year is a precurser, or less <2% of what Apple has leaked to them.
I know most of you are under 16, and so you will proclaim Apple fanboyism, and thats ok, you know no better.
Ever since Kinect the 360 has become an abomination so i'm pretty used to Microsoft making dumb decisions by now. I don't expect any better from them.
I'll go with "bad idea" because I only care about games, and the problem with the platform atm is the dearth of compelling exclusive content, and all the Kinect games are garbage (even if the interface wasn't terrible, which it is), and so fixing the interface or adding more "services" or any of that isn't going to do jack. Unless it is an announcement to make XBL free.
lol
Apple sucks, deal with it.
I'll go with "bad idea" because I only care about games, and the problem with the platform atm is the dearth of compelling exclusive content, and all the Kinect games are garbage (even if the interface wasn't terrible, which it is), and so fixing the interface or adding more "services" or any of that isn't going to do jack. Unless it is an announcement to make XBL free.
IBuyEveryGame said:
lol
Apple sucks, deal with it.
^
What's going on up there?
Pachterballs
Banned
@ibuyeverygame
whats that got to do with the thread + MS; you silly troll
whats that got to do with the thread + MS; you silly troll
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Apple invented modern video gaming, and have historically been the provider of the most important gaming platforms, with groundbreaking experiences like the Marathon trilogy and Angry Birds.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
They'll have Halo 4 there, easily the biggest and most important console exclusive game of the year (and possibly the generation). Throw in the multi-plats and XBLA games and that should be more than enough to bridge the gap till "Durango".
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Microsoft knows they already got all the gamers they're gonna get. They don't care about you anymore.
WrenchNinja
Member
Not sure why some people are surprised. The Microsoft E3 format is easy to predict.
They'll start off by showing Halo 4, followed by Call of Duty: Blops 2 to appease the core gamers. Next they'll talk about Kinect and what a great success it has been. They'll show of some Kinect games varying in quality from horrendous to inoffensive. All of the on stage demoes will be embarrassing and fantastic gif material. A couple of the Kinect games are Kinect assisted/Kinect optional games. At this point they'll show the latest Forza game which is one of the Kinect assisted games. Next up is 30-40 minutes of bullshit regarding XBL services such as Netflix, HBO and ESPN. At this point they'll introduce 2-3 "big" new services to enhance the Xbox live experience. Following this they'll reiterate the $99 Xbox with the $15 a month payment plan. As a show closer they'll tease a new big title from a familiar franchise. Probably a new Gears title.
Honestly, if it wasn't for the brilliant XBLA games such as Fez and Trials I would have dumped my 360 a while ago.
They'll start off by showing Halo 4, followed by Call of Duty: Blops 2 to appease the core gamers. Next they'll talk about Kinect and what a great success it has been. They'll show of some Kinect games varying in quality from horrendous to inoffensive. All of the on stage demoes will be embarrassing and fantastic gif material. A couple of the Kinect games are Kinect assisted/Kinect optional games. At this point they'll show the latest Forza game which is one of the Kinect assisted games. Next up is 30-40 minutes of bullshit regarding XBL services such as Netflix, HBO and ESPN. At this point they'll introduce 2-3 "big" new services to enhance the Xbox live experience. Following this they'll reiterate the $99 Xbox with the $15 a month payment plan. As a show closer they'll tease a new big title from a familiar franchise. Probably a new Gears title.
Honestly, if it wasn't for the brilliant XBLA games such as Fez and Trials I would have dumped my 360 a while ago.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Good luck!. If you haven't gotten them on by now it'll be fun trying to do so when the U releases, with more appealing games.
Stupid in the long run.
When the gaming market shrinks (as it does periodically) it contracts around the core gamer.
Lose them at your peril, why do you think Nintendo want them back.
I think it looks like MS thinks they don't need to cater to the 'hardcore' gamers too much anymore, but I think this will backfire in the long run, especially if they maintain their current focus going into the next console. They shouldn't alienate the audience they built their brand on.
The Wii U is really the home console version of the 3DS, I don't think the idea was ever to go with some trend created by Apple as you seem to claim.
How is Halo 4 more important than Halo 3? I mean everyone who would buy a 360 for Halo 4 already did so for Halo 3, ODST, Reach or even Halo Wars, that's not to mention other, bigger first party exclusives this gen.
Typically they show any multiplatform games first so that they can then say "everything from here on out is available only on Xbox 360." But yeah, outside of that it'll be a Kinect and Live fest, and honestly I think they'll save Halo 4 for the end of the conference
The Wii U is really the home console version of the 3DS, I don't think the idea was ever to go with some trend created by Apple as you seem to claim.
How is Halo 4 more important than Halo 3? I mean everyone who would buy a 360 for Halo 4 already did so for Halo 3, ODST, Reach or even Halo Wars, that's not to mention other, bigger first party exclusives this gen.
Typically they show any multiplatform games first so that they can then say "everything from here on out is available only on Xbox 360." But yeah, outside of that it'll be a Kinect and Live fest, and honestly I think they'll save Halo 4 for the end of the conference
because I don't think they'll have anything else noteworthy enough to finish the conference with.
Sometimes I feel like Microsoft realized the rules of the game and stopped caring at this point.
But still, it would be nice of them to even pretend like they care about the wrapping, not just the meat. Because if you have a huge ball of revenue rolling, you can either
a) Watch and observe
b) Push it even more so it rolls just so slightly faster
c) Sit on it and slow it down.
It feels like they just do a), but definitely not b). They know Halo4 is coming, they know BLOPS2 will be a beast on 360, but they do not even pretend to care about everything else...sad.
But still, it would be nice of them to even pretend like they care about the wrapping, not just the meat. Because if you have a huge ball of revenue rolling, you can either
a) Watch and observe
b) Push it even more so it rolls just so slightly faster
c) Sit on it and slow it down.
It feels like they just do a), but definitely not b). They know Halo4 is coming, they know BLOPS2 will be a beast on 360, but they do not even pretend to care about everything else...sad.
Yeah, people like to talk about fanboys, and loyalty, but in my opinion gamers are very fical. It is very easy to lose your spot in the console race, gen to gen. Microsoft will likely do great at launch, because of the 360, but if they don't keep an eye focused at the core gaming audience, they will lose them.
Saying Microsoft knows they aren't getting anymore gamers likely isn't correct, I believe gamers can be won over easily, but even if that statement was true and Microsoft has peaked it's Xbox fan base, they could still lose some gamers, which is probaly the bigger concern then gaining new ones, at the moment.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Not really. This is the maturation/end of the 360s life cycle. The race for adding gamers is over. When MS debuts their next console they'll start the war anew, but for now all they care about is extending the 360 with residuals, holdouts, and value added services.