Support NeoGAF

[BigDug13]

It's crazy how much some sony decisions fucked them hard on the looong term. It's the umd thing, in first place, that not only was a bad decision for the psp (lots of technical problems and umd movies tanked bad...), but became a poison for it's successor 6 years after that.

But they could have avoided that by making the "passport" program available worldwide and making it like $1 per game. There is NO excuse other than greediness to not allow people who already bought the game to be able to play it on your successor device. At least not if you want it to remain competitive in comparison to the competition.

iphone 4s playing the same apps that people bought on their iphone 3g....3DS playing DS games...Vita is releasing in competition with this kind of environment. Is it really feasible to force your loyal PSP customers to pay another $10 per game for PSP games they already owned just for the privilege of playing those same games on your new $280 system? (system plus bare minimum memory)

 

[SmokedMeat]

Yes, it's bad, but honestly, who didn't see it coming? Sony doesn't have the pulse of the market and the design of the Vita just proves it.

You think people are buying 3DS for it's design?

 

[orioto]

This needs a long talk, but think about "hardcore" gamers, they complains if a console has only an analogue, if loadings are long, 60 fps vs 30 fps and a lot of other things.
The thing you are describing needs to be a proper console to attract "hardcore" gamers losing the phone form factor for decent analogues, decent buttons, a decent battery etc.
Even with phones capabilities an iphone console would be a console, it would have the advantage of apple's strong position and the huge amount of loyal(some mindless) fans, but it would be submitted to the same ups and downs of the gaming industry that affects the other consoles.

I think it's more simple than what you think, but i may be wrong.

Let's imagine tomorow, you have a galaxy s3 level phone with some xperia style buttons (but let's say better, maybe with slidepad more than trackpad). It's agressivly marketed at gamers, and have a steam like secondary store with big names games at 20-40 dollars. You can still have your 0,99$ Angry Bird, but you can also have your port of minecraf, super meat boy or even any console game.

Now, even if it's not perfect, what's the potential market for core gamers with a smartphone that would just take this one ?

 

[SmokyDave]

This needs a long talk, but think about "hardcore" gamers, they complains if a console has only an analogue, if loadings are long, 60 fps vs 30 fps and a lot of other things.
The thing you are describing needs to be a proper console to attract "hardcore" gamers losing the phone form factor for decent analogues, decent buttons, a decent battery etc, losing most of the "casual" audience.
Even with phones capabilities an iphone console would be a console, it would have the advantage of apple's strong position and the huge amount of loyal(some mindless) fans, but it would be submitted to the same ups and downs of the gaming industry that affects the other consoles.

My answer to pretty much all of your posts would be "hardcore gamers alone are insufficient to support a modern platform".

 

[UncleSporky]

You think people are buying 3DS for it's design?

For 3D? Maybe. I'm not a 10-year-old, I don't know.

Part of its "design" is the fact that it's similar enough to the DS to have backward compatibility. People may not be buying strictly for that reason, but it's yet another advantage over Vita.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Compare the PSP's software sales with any other system even close to it in unit sales, and its numbers will look absolutely pathetic.

Couldn't possibly have something to do with piracy. You know, the thing that PSP became infamous for.

The thing we don't know is did piracy help Sony sell PSP hardware, or did it hurt software sales?

 

[BigDug13]

For 3D? Maybe. I'm not a 10-year-old, I don't know.

Part of its "design" is the fact that it's similar enough to the DS to have backward compatibility. People may not be buying strictly for that reason, but it's yet another advantage over Vita.

Well I'm also not a 10 year old. I'm 37. (not sure what you were getting at with the 10yo comment) The 3D does add something to certain games. Not everyone can enjoy the 3d. I do.

But another thing is the clamshell design. Nintendo had it right starting with the GBA:SP. Fold it up and stick it in your pocket.

I don't stick my PSP directly into my pocket. I wouldn't with a Vita either. On my PSP, I slip it into its case before it goes into my pocket. Personally I think the 3DS wins on that aspect. It is instantly more portable than its competition. (though if you did some stuff on your PSP, it became the most portable with no games to carry around.)

 

[2+2=5]

I think it's more simple than what you think, but i may be wrong.

Let's imagine tomorow, you have a galaxy s3 level phone with some xperia style buttons (but let's say better, maybe with slidepad more than trackpad). It's agressivly marketed at gamers, and have a steam like secondary store with big names games at 20-40 dollars. You can still have your 0,99$ Angry Bird, but you can also have your port of minecraf, super meat boy or even any console game.

Now, even if it's not perfect, what's the potential market for core gamers with a smartphone that would just take this one ?

Xperia was little because it had little buttons and no slide, if you add decent controls(and decent batteries if you want to use it big games for hours) you have to lose the phone form factor, losing the "casual" audience, i can be wrong, but this is what i imagine.

 

[manzo]

My answer to pretty much all of your posts would be "hardcore gamers alone are insufficient to support a modern platform".

That's where the industry went wrong. Hardcores were there since the beginning and gotten things this far. The industry should take a look at the current models and make sure that we are always catered, since the casuals move from trend to trend.

 

[entremet]

Not bad. But what do I know.

 

[UncleSporky]

The thing we don't know is did piracy help Sony sell PSP hardware, or did it hurt software sales?

Why are these mutually exclusive?

Well I'm also not a 10 year old. I'm 37. (not sure what you were getting at with the 10yo comment) The 3D does add something to certain games. Not everyone can enjoy the 3d. I do.

Oh, I'm not saying it's for 10-year-olds. I meant that I assume a lot of its sales have taken place among the younger generation and I don't necessarily know what attracts them to 3DS, but the 3D effect is certainly possible. I don't think 10-year-olds care about OLED, though.

Clamshell is good design, but people probably don't buy the system because of that. But it's part of the overall design that makes it a good package.

 

[Kusagari]

I don't stick my PSP directly into my pocket. I wouldn't with a Vita either. On my PSP, I slip it into its case before it goes into my pocket. Personally I think the 3DS wins on that aspect. It is instantly more portable than its competition. (though if you did some stuff on your PSP, it became the most portable with no games to carry around.)

I've always thought this. Sony's designs for the PSP and Vita make them some of the unportable portable things I've ever seen. Who wants to give their kid a thing that will be busted if it hits the ground once.

 

[UncleSporky]

I've always thought this. Sony's designs for the PSP and Vita make them some of the unportable portable things I've ever seen. Who wants to give their kid a thing that will be busted if it hits the ground once.

Especially when the focus is on a beautiful, expensive screen. That's just backwards.

 

[2+2=5]

My answer to pretty much all of your posts would be "hardcore gamers alone are insufficient to support a modern platform".

I don't know, i think that consoles lived well before the "casuals" boom, i think that this generation consoles gained the "casual" audience making a lot of money with them, now that "casuals" are more interested on apple's products they are losing money, but it's not "hardcores"' fault, i don't think to be wrong saying that ms, sony and nintendo make big money with their most important ips for "hardcores".

 

[SmokyDave]

That's where the industry went wrong. Hardcores were there since the beginning and gotten things this far. The industry should take a look at the current models and make sure that we are always catered, since the casuals move from trend to trend.

I don't know, i think that consoles lived well before the "casuals" boom, i think that this generation consoles gained the "casual" audience making a lot of money with them, now that "casuals" are more interested on apple's products they are losing money, but it's not "hardcores"' fault, i don't think to be wrong saying that ms, sony and nintendo make big money with their most important ips for "hardcores".

Note that I said modern platforms. If you want to go back to the good old days, prepare for olden-day style budgets. No more AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA shit that costs £20,000,000 before it hits a shelf.

I'd be perfectly happy with that, actually.

 

[2+2=5]

Note that I said modern platforms. If you want to go back to the good old days, prepare for olden-day style budgets. No more AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA shit that costs £20,000,000 before it hits a shelf.

I'd be perfectly happy with that, actually.

I would be happy too, but notice that i talked about this generation of consoles too, where ms, sony and nintendo gain a lot of money with their most important ips.

 

[Maedhros]

I've always thought this. Sony's designs for the PSP and Vita make them some of the unportable portable things I've ever seen. Who wants to give their kid a thing that will be busted if it hits the ground once.

Who wants their iPads/iPods/iPhones/iShit to hit the ground? Yet, kids still get them.

 

[Kusagari]

Who wants their iPads/iPods/iPhones/iShit to hit the ground? Yet, kids still get them.

Apple's shit is really sturdy in terms of drops actually. I'm not sure about the iPad, but there's basically a zero chance that dropping your iPhone or iPod will do more than scratch the screen.

 

[kayos90]

Apple's shit is really sturdy in terms of drops actually. I'm not sure about the iPad, but there's basically a zero chance that dropping your iPhone or iPod will do more than scratch the screen.

Especially with cases that doesn't make gameplay more difficult and helps portability ease.

 

[Maastricht]

Apple's shit is really sturdy in terms of drops actually. I'm not sure about the iPad, but there's basically a zero chance that dropping your iPhone or iPod will do more than scratch the screen.

You're making a joke? My iPhone screen shattered into 50 pieces and splinters after a 40cm drop. None of these devices survive a fall flat on their surface. My iPod has a crack in the corner just from pressure. My iPad has a strong cover so that won't happen again. There's some nice youtube vids showing standard drop tests, you should check them out.

That same site also tested the Vita btw. Survived all tests, partly thanks to being flexible and having analog sticks.

 

[orioto]

Xperia was little because it had little buttons and no slide, if you add decent controls(and decent batteries if you want to use it big games for hours) you have to lose the phone form factor, losing the "casual" audience, i can be wrong, but this is what i imagine.

I don't know did you see the size of a Galaxy S ? I even have a friend who phones in the subway with a galaxy note lol...

 

[M.D]

Apple's shit is really sturdy in terms of drops actually. I'm not sure about the iPad, but there's basically a zero chance that dropping your iPhone or iPod will do more than scratch the screen.

WUT? I always see people with scratches on their screen/back and broken screens and back panels (Iphone 4/4S)

 

[Kusagari]

WUT? I always see people with scratches on their screen/back and broken screens and back panels (Iphone 4/4S)

I said you would have a scratched screen. But I've dropped both my iPhone 3G and my iPhone 4S now on concrete a couple times. My 3GS got scratches each time and my 4S didn't even get a scratch and only chipped on one of the sides.

 

[BigDug13]

I said you would have a scratched screen. But I've dropped both my iPhone 3G and my iPhone 4S now on concrete a couple times. My 3GS got scratches each time and my 4S didn't even get a scratch and only chipped on one of the sides.

I had my iphone 4 drop multiple times on my wood floor. There are now dents in my wood floor but the iphone had no damage. I also had it fall out of my pocket while running down a street while still attached to my earbuds, hit hard, then got dragged for a few feet before I stopped to grab it. Only scratches on the screen which are not bad and no other damage.

I dropped my original ipod brick (the white one with black and white screen and 4 buttons above the circle) many times and never caused it to become unusable.

I'm thinking people are unlucky maybe? The Vita survives drops, that's good. I'm sure the 3DS has similar "dropped from up high with no damage" videos as well.

 

[SmokyDave]

I said you would have a scratched screen. But I've dropped both my iPhone 3G and my iPhone 4S now on concrete a couple times. My 3GS got scratches each time and my 4S didn't even get a scratch and only chipped on one of the sides.

I have a magic iPhone 4. It's been dropped a few times, sometimes severely, and yet the only visible damage is a tiny half-inch scratch about the width of a human hair. On the back. It's insane how sturdy it is.

 

[thehypocrite]

Sony PSVita strategy:

1.Make it a powerhouse for Digital Only games. Like steam but portable. This a niche where they won't have direct competition.
2.Multiplayer focused.
3.Create a really grand catalog of content, then bring that content to their smartphones/tablets once they can incorporate the technology.
4. Unique software.
5. Lower the price of hardware to mainstream prices. Vita + Memory card <199.99
6. Revision with storage out of the box.
7. PSN complete backwards compatibility with PS1/minis/psp.
8. First party games.
9.PS suite.

All achievable goals in my opinion.

When I look at Vita, I think that Sony has a long term strategy,they should start seeing the effectiveness after 1 year of the worldwide launch. However there's more to it than that, Vita is the incentive that Sony is using to create premium digital content, that will enable them to offer unique gaming experiences in the mobile space (smartphones/tablets), there's also the fact that if Sony could turn the fortunes of the unmitigated disaster that was the PS3 @ launch I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt with Vita.

So yes doomed camp GAF, you will be eating crow as I think the PSVita will be a successful venture for Sony.

 

[UncleSporky]

Oh look, Hypocrite's back. Let's try this again:

What's your assumption that the "doomed" camp believes? That Vita will stop being sold within a year, stricken from the annals of history? Because I don't think anyone has said that in all seriousness.

What do you expect will cause the crow-eating? Do you mean that CoD will demonstrably save the Vita, or some other game we can point to as a turning point? Do you think that Vita will be beating the 3DS, or on track to soundly beat the PSP in every territory, or what?

Here's my prediction: Vita will get some decent games at E3 that will have many proclaiming that its fortunes have turned. A price drop will not happen this year, but some decent bundles might. This will not be enough to turn it around, and those promising E3 games (including Call of Duty) will only cause small bumps before returning the system to its normal sales rate. Regardless of whether a price drop happens or not, this is the significant part: by this time next year, Vita will have sold about 1.5 million in Japan and 5 million worldwide. Possibly as high as 5.5. There will be software on the horizon that fans will appreciate, but it will be in much the same situation as the PSP went through.

Now, what's your prediction, so we can look back in a year?

 

[Synth_floyd]

The 1.8 million number isn't so bad on its own except for the fact that there are few upcoming games, hints of a price cut or any other prospects for a turnaround. Sony corporate is also in pretty dire straits and may lack the funds or will to do everything that is necessary to help shore up the position of the Vita. Currently the Vita is facing a ~10:1 sales deficit to the 3DS and iOS/Android as competitors which it did not have during the original PSP/DS era.

It's certainly possible that Sony can make the Vita a success but it has a long, uphill battle to do so.

 

[Shinriji]

I, as a new Vita owner, expect to be always like the PS3 was: A rough start (no games meme, hit and miss online network), have a massive rebranding 2 years later, sucessful in the long run, but always remembered by being a "failure" beside having great games.

Been here, done that with the PS3, so I'm in, just avoid the drama and focus on the games.

 

[ari]

How to save vita:

announce this:

or this:

heck even this will do:

really? lol

 

[SmokedMeat]

Why are these mutually exclusive?

If most people were purchasing the hardware with the intent of piracy, then software sales would've never been good to begin with.

 

[Afrikan]

So......why does the title of the thread still not mention "as of March 31st"?

 

[thehypocrite]

Oh look, Hypocrite's back. Let's try this again:

Hey a man has to eat/sleep/workout/work

What's your assumption that the "doomed" camp believes? That Vita will stop being sold within a year, stricken from the annals of history? Because I don't think anyone has said that in all seriousness.

Maybe not all of then but some surely did. However the other less disconnected posters believe that Sony won't be successful with the Vita and will loose money on it, probably killing it after 3 years.

What do you expect will cause the crow-eating? Do you mean that CoD will demonstrably save the Vita, or some other game we can point to as a turning point? Do you think that Vita will be beating the 3DS, or on track to soundly beat the PSP in every territory, or what?

I don't believe 1 game can save a platform as no game stimulates the sensibilities of everyone, but I also think that having it won't hurt Vita. Sony needs all the software they can get. In regards to what I think will save it, please read my prior post where I outlined the strategy that Sony can/will follow to drive it to success. Also Vita will make Sony more money than PSP, that's the only benchmark that matters.

Here's my prediction: Vita will get some decent games at E3 that will have many proclaiming that its fortunes have turned. A price drop will not happen this year, but some decent bundles might. This will not be enough to turn it around, and those promising E3 games (including Call of Duty) will only cause small bumps before returning the system to its normal sales rate. Regardless of whether a price drop happens or not, this is the significant part: by this time next year, Vita will have sold about 1.5 million in Japan and 5 million worldwide. Possibly as high as 5.5. There will be software on the horizon that fans will appreciate, but it will be in much the same situation as the PSP went through.

Now, what's your prediction, so we can look back in a year?

PSVita will sell from 8 to 10 millions more worldwide from today to next year.

 

[stuminus3]

Re: the handheld vs iOS thing (or even games in general vs iOS) - yes there's millions of "casual" users now picking up iPhones instead of handhelds but I figure that at very least the more "traditional" hardware makers would at least have their baseline "core" market to keep them in business until they hit the next big thing. It's very clear that Nintendo can do this, they've done it before in the home console market and they still hold on to that synergy between their own hardware and software that made them their fortune in the first place. No worries there. Sony, on the other hand, seem to have a hell of a struggle ahead of them. They turned the PS3 around for their "core", but considering the state of their business in general and the impending approach of "next gen", can they afford to have to do the same thing again? I sure hope so. I wouldn't say "doomed" but I worry about how far they'll be forced deviate from their core in an attempt to get back in the big leagues.

 

[Raonak]

So......why does the title of the thread still not mention "as of March 31st"?

Im not saying it's a conspiracy....

Spoiler

it is. wario is the mastermind.

 

[Nessus]

Y'know what could get me to buy a Vita? If they'd update their PSX and PS2 digital download catalogue to include pretty much every major game for those systems, and bring them to Vita at decent prices.

Devil May Cry, Silent Hill 2, etc. on Vita? Yes please.

 

[michaelius]

Re: the handheld vs iOS thing (or even games in general vs iOS) - yes there's millions of "casual" users now picking up iPhones instead of handhelds but I figure that at very least the more "traditional" hardware makers would at least have their baseline "core" market to keep them in business until they hit the next big thing. It's very clear that Nintendo can do this, they've done it before in the home console market and they still hold on to that synergy between their own hardware and software that made them their fortune in the first place. No worries there. Sony, on the other hand, seem to have a hell of a struggle ahead of them. They turned the PS3 around for their "core", but considering the state of their business in general and the impending approach of "next gen", can they afford to have to do the same thing again? I sure hope so. I wouldn't say "doomed" but I worry about how far they'll be forced deviate from their core in an attempt to get back in the big leagues.

Turning the things for Vita will be much much cheaper.

Development costs for handheld are smaller than on HD consoles.
Part of sales is done through more profitable digital distribution.
Vita doesn't use any weird tech so will benefit from cost reductions much faster (OLED screens are next big thing for mass adoption, and the heart of PSV - it's SOC will be used in plenty of other device)
Price dropping on memory cards would change them from rip-off to merely profitable.

And like PS3 which benefited from porting from X360 , Vita will benefit from PS3 existance for easy ports.

 

[FoneBone]

And like PS3 which benefited from porting from X360 , Vita will benefit from PS3 existance for easy ports.

Barring fighting games, this doesn't seem to actually be happening at all.

 

[michaelius]

Barring fighting games, this doesn't seem to actually be happening at all.

Ninja Gaiden ? Disgaea 3 ?

 

[Fafalada]

Compare the PSP's software sales with any other system even close to it in unit sales, and its numbers will look absolutely pathetic.

GBA     79M / 366M
PSP   76.3M / 330M
Diff   4.5% / 10%

 

[Father_Brain]

Ninja Gaiden ? Disgaea 3 ?

Those are long-belated ports that most systems get early in their lives, not proper multiplatform titles in the sense you're referring to. While there are a handful of actual PS3/360/Vita multiplatform titles, there's no indication at all that publishers are moving en masse to integrate Vita as a third/fourth HD platform; the overwhelming majority of announced HD multiplatform titles aren't coming to Vita and probably never will.

 

[dr_rus]

Right, it pretty much gives the early bird with a better price and library the only chair left at the end of the song, leaving Vita with nothing but a long, slow death. Sony should take action to re-launch it under a $199 or lower price with a slate of games, because that's pretty much the only real option they have besides killing this motherfucker off like Ninty did with Virtual Boy. Reintroduce the Vita in phones and focus on that and the next PS console. Better than wasting resources on what is surely a very fucking dead platform with little to no impressive third party support, no sales, and no positive buzz outside of some of the more insanely positive owners.

On the contrary I think that Vita is in the best place possible for a dedicated gaming handheld at the moment. From here it'll be selling better and better with prices lowered, DD platform becoming more relevant, a lot of good new (non casual) games released. It won't (ever) reach iPhone levels of unit sales but that's another market and they're not comparable. The only real competitor for Vita right now is 3DS.

 

[AwRy108]

Dear Sony,

please release games and you will be rewarded by your customers.

yours sincerely,
Nibel's Vita

Add my signature to this, too.

 

[Maedhros]

GBA     79M / 366M
PSP   76.3M / 330M
Diff   4.5% / 10%

That's pathetic man...

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Add my signature to this, too.

And my axe!

 

[Road]

GBA     79M / 366M
PSP   76.3M / 330M
Diff   4.5% / 10%

GBA should be 81.5m / 377m

And the counter-argument will be the GBA's premature death.

 

[Diablos54]

PSVita will sell from 8 to 10 millions more worldwide from today to next year.

So you expect Vita to average from 600k to just under a million a month? You have looked at the sales so far right?

 

[Haethos]

bought a vita after playing the gravity rush demo inside a gamestop. GIVE ME GRAVITY RUSH ALREADY, and more software please i literally have only bought psp games so far for it :\

 

[ThatObviousUser]

PSVita will sell from 8 to 10 millions more worldwide from today to next year.

I'm setting my Google Calendar and bumping this in the next year.

 

[mclem]

So you expect Vita to average from 600k to just under a million a month? You have looked at the sales so far right?

To be fair, you'd expect a bump around Christmas.

It might hit six figures in the US that month, if it's really lucky.