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5th Cell CEO (GAF's own Jackson): Wii U is "definitely more powerful than PS3 & 360"
- Thread starter dc89
- Start date
11 pages and counting.
specialguy
Banned
err, optional to use how? I'm 100% sure nintendo mandates the shit out of it to developers. considering it's basically the lynchpin of their console.
they may, very likely will, change this philosophy after wii u flops, in a desperation move, but by then it wont matter.
And once again, I'll point out we have a busy thread over what Iwata says is increasingly irrelevant. Graphics and power.
If Sweeney is right and 5000 t-flops is needed to simulate reality, and he says until then advances in computer graphics will be fast and constant, it wont be irrelevant for decades
I have retold this story a hundred times, but I distinctly remember back in the SNES days, a VG&CE (old magazine) editor stating that TV's cannot handle graphics much better than the SNES. That was what, 1992? The old diminishing returns thing has been around a long time, and so far has a 100% fail rate imo.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Oh right, because it has dual analog it doesn't matter that there's a huge, unmissable touch screen right in the middle.
It's the touch screen that's gimmicky and I doubt that use of it is optional, what part of that is confusing?
Stealth20k
Banned
Nintendo doesnt mandate anything.
Look at the DS, some games had nothing touch or very minimal
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
With four times the memory, a more versatile CPU, discrete audio DSP/IO controller and a GPU 1.5 gens newer?
More like Dreamcast to Xbox.
it's not just that dev who said it.
someone even went as far as saying that the WiiU CPU is weaker than the Vita CPU this was way before the Tekken Dev said anything.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
What if WI iu is the lead platform?
Will developers care? At the moment, most seem to concentrate on 360/PS3. In one year, they'll probably concentrate on 720/PS4. In either case, the Wii U would only receive ports.
Stealth20k
Banned
i wouldnt go that far
anonymous cowards no doubt
dont generalize
Nope, it isn't mandatory, just like using 3D on the 3DS isn't mandatory.
Katsuya Eguchi, the system's producer and head of EAD Group 2, has said they are not mandating its use, and in fact hopes developers would only use it if it makes sense.
specialguy
Banned
I doubt this. You give platform holders, all of them, way too much credit.
Unless some dev comes out and says Ninty doesn't mandate touchscreen use, I will believe that they do (based on common sense, and the fact there arent any games I know of that dont use it!).
I'm willing to bet it goes farther than that, not only do I bet they mandate it, but I bet they mandate a "novel", "creative" use of it (hard to define standards, of course) and hassle devs over it. I am sure you cannot just stick some mostly static screen down there and the like in an attempt to effectively ignore it.
I don't generalise, I am realistic when it comes to 3rd party support for Nintendo platforms. As if they cared about Wii, DS or 3DS.
Stealth20k
Banned
I am pretty sure negativity is an internet thing
specialguy
Banned
Color me skeptical. That's not how these things work.
ArchedThunder
Banned
It kinda is.
babyghost853
Member
Nope, you're a Nintendo apologist because you blindly defend them, no matter what, just because I don't post often doesn't mean I don't read the threads. Every nintendo related thread, you just defend them regardless of what the thread is about. And just because you love Nintendo games and systems, does not mean everyone should share your opinion. The Nintendo trap isn't bull, how many times has Nintendo promised better 3rd party support? How many times have they delivered?
Most of these threads boil down to one simple question for most, (why should I buy a nintendo system over the others?). I had every Nintendo console up until the gamecube, my kids have DS's, it's not like I hate Nintendo. You just come across and someone who thinks Nintendo is infallible. And refuse to acknowledge that other people can have different views on the company. I don't care how many copies mario were sold, I am only 1 person, once I finish that game what will I play next. Anyway this is getting way OT so I will leave it alone. Maybe I should have done what I usually do and just read the thread and laugh.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
...and some games required it. So much for the optional part.
Sure, you could optionally not play the next Zelda or Mario game but then again, you could optionally leave the WiiU on the shelf at Wal Mart.
They are 100% not mandating the use of touch controls on any similar "gimmickry"any more than they're mandaing the use of the various other tools in the controller (gyros, magnetometers, nfc, what have you). You can display a map or some other useless GUI element and nobody at Nintendo would blink, as evidenced by what they've actually said in public (as one example in the previous post pointed out).
And honestly, after some of the best games in decades have appeared on the DS, the competitor has a handheld that closely mirrors the setup of the gamepad, and the #1 mobile platform right now is a fully touch-based smartphone I don't see how one can consider the inclusion of a touch screen as "gimmicky".
Specialguy, how bout you wait until the console "flops hard" before beating that drum so consistently?
specialguy
Banned
I try not too beat it too consistently.
How about this, why is there no game that uses only the Pro-controller?
If I was Assassins Creed 3, that would seem to be a pretty smart thing to do. Or at least some game, try to stretch the Wii U's graphical muscle (which is probably more than PS3/360), and to best do that set aside the 2nd screen. Then you could lay claim to the best console version and whatnot, would probably help your sales.
I would like to see what that alleged 1.5GB RAM (after subtracting OS) can do.
How about this, why is there no game that uses only the Pro-controller?
If I was Assassins Creed 3, that would seem to be a pretty smart thing to do. Or at least some game, try to stretch the Wii U's graphical muscle (which is probably more than PS3/360), and to best do that set aside the 2nd screen. Then you could lay claim to the best console version and whatnot, would probably help your sales.
I would like to see what that alleged 1.5GB RAM (after subtracting OS) can do.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Let's put it another way, it will not be optional for all games. There will not be "use the touchscreen or don't use the touchscreen" option.
Take the DS Zelda games, while Nintendo didn't force other developers to make stylus controlled games, Nintendo did and in those games you weren't given the OPTION to use normal controls. That's what I mean when I say use of the touchscreen will not be optional.
Stealth20k
Banned
It isnt mandated. There are ds titles with just a picture on the bottom screen......thats it
You can be realistic without generalizing, and generally being false.
You lost all cred when you included the 3ds and ds
Only nintendo ones most of the time, but even then especially in the mario's touch screen stuff was minimal
This is priceless.
Honestly, just go away. What have you contributed to the "discussion" besides attacking me?
specialguy
Banned
That's DS.
I'd like to see such a game on Wii U.
Even then, wouldn't refreshing a still 30 times a second take some resources (Wii U)? Better yet, a game that turns it off or uses the pro controller. I'm sure all Wii U fans want at least a few games to do this anyway, since it will be the only way to max the system's graphics.
Stealth20k
Banned
Well it might take time but we will see games that use the touch screen minimally.
Namco has already confirmed they will be taking there ds fighting game approach too the wii u, which was minimal use
Metal Gear?!
Member
While the DS didn't have the texture filtering of the N64 it could handle many more polygons at a solid 60fps though lower resolution (256x192 vs 320x240) and with free AA.
specialguy
Banned
WTH would a launch title use only the pro controller when there are a small unknown quantity of those sold?
It would limit the amount of potential customers they can sell the game to.
babyghost853
Member
You're right, I will go away, but you still can't answer the question.
How many times has Nintendo promised better 3rd party support? How many times have they delivered?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
There could be though. Hell, there were Wii games that could only use a CC/CCPro.
It's now 2GB evidently, with 512MB reserved for OS/functions.
I think people continue to make the mistake of how Nintendo cares about what other console manufacturers are doing. Nintendo isn't interested in whipping its dick out to see whose is bigger. Nintendo has attempted to justify Wii U's hardware power time and time again. It's reasoning makes sense even though we don't have to agree with the decisions it has made.
The big N has been attempting to get its message across to consumers about how unique Wii U is by highlighting the idea of asymmetrical gameplay experiences among other hardware features that makes it a compelling platform. So announcing the specifications is not going to do anything but blur the message Nintendo is trying to illustrate to us. That doesn't mean Nintendo won't push graphics on its own platform, but impressing us with graphics isn't the main selling point of Wii U. Of course, this has created a problem in how people perceive the Wii U's hardware power being weak because we have yet to see a game that serves as a real graphical showcase for Nintendo's next-gen hardware. It's one of those natural expectations we have and Nintendo has chosen to defy it.
If there's one thing Nintendo understands it is that good game design will always trump technology. Wii U is more powerful than the 360 and PS3, but that Wii U's resources are being used for things under the hood that isn't going to create a massive difference for better graphics.
fallingdove
Member
Iwata alluded to a weaker CPU as well. What weaker means(weaker than PS3/360 or weaker than cutting edge CPUs), who knows, but its not the first time I have heard about CPU concerns with the WiiU.
Stealth20k
Banned
most times, for me.
specialguy
Banned
So by that logic the pro controller is completely pointless and should not exist.
That's why I said 1.5GB after OS functions.
I'm a little skeptical of that large a number, my guess is more like 1.5GB with .5 taken by OS, or perhaps even less than 1.5GB. But I understand it's the prevailing thought so I reference it.
Stealth20k
Banned
alluding, and stating are 2 different things.
When he states " the wii u cpu is weaker" (not clock speed)
then maybe you have something
Third Party support is one of Nintendo's weaknesses. Why anybody invests in their recent consoles expecting a drastic difference is beyond me.
A lot of companies make promises they sometimes don't honor. Nintendo is of em.
The whole "trap" angle is just baseless drivel, yo.
Stealth20k
Banned
The wii had improved 3rd party support from n64 to gamecube to wii, so I dont see why it would continue to improve.
The ds had the best third party support of the entire gen.
So nintendo is trying
Pachterballs
Banned
pretty much this
Because some people don't want that screen, and is a nice extra for peopel who want more of a traditional 360 liek pad? And ince its completely 1:1 the same button and layout wise, it's 100% compatible with all games?
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Snowden's Secret
Banned
You're 100% sure? Even after Nintendo revealed their U360 controller and said it was explicitly so devs weren't under any misconceptions about having to use the gimmicks?
EDIT: Also, Assassin's Creed is the perfect example of a game that needs a second screen. The number of times I paused to open the mini map in Assassin's Creed or Skyrim is astounding.
I don't buy your argument that since every game uses the screen that means it's mandated. Do you find it impossible to believe devs are implementing it simply because they think it's a good idea?
Yea they are, but people expecting HD Twin levels of TP support need a reality check for the time being.
test_account
XP-39C²
Have the WiiU RAM amount been confirmed now?
I would never dare to think that, I'm basically in the camp that 3rd parties will find excuses again to ignore the Wiiu.
Stealth20k
Banned
Honestly in terms of exclusives thats what i got, and thats what i wanted most.
Please dont say "most people" I wont discuss generalizations. If you say you did. Then that means more to me
What part of me saying nintendo didnt you understand?
There are actually people who believe the Wii U third party support will be as good as the HD twins? If I recall correctly the majority of people in the speculation thread believe the Wii U will get around 5%-25% of multiplatform games which is what I believe as well.