Says who?
The same people who was calling people crazy a year or 2 ago whenever they spoke of more than 2GB of ram in a Next-Gen Console?
The Know-it-All's don't seem to know it all.
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4K Video Gaming is already here (Toshiba Video Demo )
- Thread starter onQ123
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Says who?
The same people who was calling people crazy a year or 2 ago whenever they spoke of more than 2GB of ram in a Next-Gen Console?
The Know-it-All's don't seem to know it all.
We rarely have games that hit 1080p, and quite a few can't even do full 720p. You'll probably be doing it on a computer with ease with either a high end setup or even a fresh one just a few years into the future, but on consoles it's going to be a complete no show unless the jump we have is a stupefyingly big, you-won't-need-a-new-console-for-20-years jump. At best we'll get PRETTY GOOD scaling to that built in.
Still, the computer angle, even if it's just for desktop, is why I've mentioned countless times I want 4K monitors. And that'll likely help with getting content made for 4K TVs, so they should probably get those monitors out there and cheap ASAP.
Exactly. Only engineers at the respective companies know what is and what is not feasible, the rest is just guess work.
Sadly they're very secretive... but this also makes for great fun to think of the possibilities.
I'm all for the latest and greatest, and pushing tech that will have to last for 6-10 years.
500$ cards backed by 300$ CPUs, multiple GBs of RAM and running on 600W+ power supplies just started hitting good framerates at these resolutions. Today's supposedly HD consoles have a lot of games rendering at below even 720p. Yet the next consoles will do 4K at a locked 30fps somehow?
They'll be in their graves by the time 4k is commercially viable for most people.
...Yeah, but when you have a gtx690 barely pushing some games at 60fps with a native resolution of 2560x1600 and they are hurting at 5760x1080... Unless you're willing to pay $5000 or more for a video game console I highly doubt that 4k gaming will take off soon. Maybe In 10 years when or IF the next generation of consoles after the upcoming one are released.
Consumer video media isn't supporting this resolution any time soon. The only way you can really take advantage of 4K is to use a high end gaming PC and even then it's pointless for most PC gamers since most of them (NOT ALL) play on 27" monitors or smaller.
Dreams-Visions
Member
sign me up yesterday, plz
Looking at Wipeout HD & GT5 I can honestly say that just about every PS3 game could have been a 1080P game, yeah sure you would have to scale somethings back to achieve 1080P over 720P but look at Wipeout HD & GT5 at 1080P & you will see that whatever they had to cut back to achieve 1080P was worth it.
They're racing games. By nature they've got less going on.
Wipeout HD uses a dynamic framebuffer, so that the resolution scales between 1280x1080 and 1920x1080 in order to keep the framerate up. GT5 renders at 1280x1080 in-game and 1440x1080 during replays. So the former runs at 1080p a fraction of the time, while the latter never runs at 1080p.
Keep in mind Wipeout doesn't always run at full 1080p, and GT5 never does (it runs at 1280*1080).
edit: beaten
phosphor112
Banned
So? And they are both technically amazing.
GT5 has day night cycles, extremely high poly counts, AT LEAST 2xAA, weather, dynamic lighting, etc... sure some things look rough around the edges, but it's mainly because it has 512mb of ram.
Both of those games run at 60fps as well.
1280x1080 is still 1080P
it has 1080 horizontal lines, I'm not sure what's the point of the nit picking about that.
That's not the point. We're talking about resolution.
Because your entire argument is that PS3 can already do 1080p, and thus 4k isn't so far off. But 1280x1080 is a lot easier to push out than 1920x1080. Even if 1080p is characterized by 1080 horizontal pixels, 1080p also implies 1920x1080, since 1080p is a widescreen (16x9) resolution.
Canis lupus
Member
I think 90% of the games next gen will be 1080p, 5% will be 720p and the other 5% 4K.(mainly PSN games).
What about 1x1080?
Standards. How do they work?
tassletine
Member
The problem with 4K is that it's going to be a tough sell, as there's little difference between 2k and 4K once you back off from the TV a bit (as is evident in the video)
I very much like the idea myself but a lot of people I know can't tell the difference between a good DVD and a Blueray, or they watch their sets with the aspect ratio's squished.
So, the general public will only buy a 4K TV when it's as cheap as HD TV's are at present, as they won't be able to see, or care about the benefits, and are just looking for a replacement for their older model.
And as most people only change their TV set about every 7-10 years or so the games companies just physically won't be able to take advantage of this. Pc gaming is another matter though.
I very much like the idea myself but a lot of people I know can't tell the difference between a good DVD and a Blueray, or they watch their sets with the aspect ratio's squished.
So, the general public will only buy a 4K TV when it's as cheap as HD TV's are at present, as they won't be able to see, or care about the benefits, and are just looking for a replacement for their older model.
And as most people only change their TV set about every 7-10 years or so the games companies just physically won't be able to take advantage of this. Pc gaming is another matter though.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Yo man, my old Voodoo 2 can run 1x1080p. In fact, since it did 640x480 so well, it could do 1 x 307,200p---aka 307k! Hey man, 307k is 307k, multipliers be damned!
So who's to say the next-gen consoles can't do 4K, huh?
What's that? Precedent, standards, and current performance of machines that will are significantly more powerful than the next-gen systems will be? Pfft, whatever. But how can you know?!
Besides what was already pointed out, keep in mind most (all?) of those HD collections for last gen games are locked at 720p. Whatever they need to cut would undoubtedly put these games below PS2 quality, at best it's something like Sly 1 at 1080p with half the frame rate.
Yeah, at best you'd have very simplistic games going at 4K on the next gen consoles, and possibly not even at 60 FPS. And likely only matching it vertically, not horizontally.
if it has 1080 progressive lines going across vertically it's 1080P
1 pixel is not a line & 0 pixels is nothing so you both fail! nice try though , I mean you could have said 3x1080 & had a better case but you tried a little to hard SMH maybe next time.
a standard is just that a standard. if 1080P is defined by having 1080 progressive lines going across vertically then that's what 1080P is.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Still 1080p yo!
.....if there was a standard that told us the expected aspect ratio of 1080p then this would be a completely different argument.
I love the GT5 1080p argument arguably my favorite GT5/PS3/Console defense ever!
Dictator93
Member
The semantics are hilarious no offense. 1080p (some stupid arbitrary nomenclature)is irrelevant. All i know is that gt5 is not 1920x1080 progressive scanned. 1080p more often than not only means that resolution, not jsut the amount of vertical lines. Hence the 4k debate (which is also stupid).
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It is not nitpicking to say 1280 is not 1920. It is a cold hard fact.
MrCunningham
Member
So is 4K going to be a new buzzword for TV's, just like 3D was not so long ago?
I'm glad I have bought a HDTV (my first Samsung LCD 1080p/24), and I'm really enjoying my actual Pioneer 5090...
But I have to admit that it was in first place for gaming and.............. I never played a AAA game in 1080p on my PS3, or on my 360 (WipeOut HD is not a AAA, and I don't give a shit at GT5).........
Yeah it worth it for bluray movies, it's still gorgeous in 720p, but............ Where the fuck are the 1080p games they promised me?...
So, this time I keep my 1080P plasma, and I will see if all contents (all movies and games at least...) turns 4K.
If not, it will be without me until my TV dies.
But I have to admit that it was in first place for gaming and.............. I never played a AAA game in 1080p on my PS3, or on my 360 (WipeOut HD is not a AAA, and I don't give a shit at GT5).........
Yeah it worth it for bluray movies, it's still gorgeous in 720p, but............ Where the fuck are the 1080p games they promised me?...
So, this time I keep my 1080P plasma, and I will see if all contents (all movies and games at least...) turns 4K.
If not, it will be without me until my TV dies.
& it is also a cold hard fact that it's 1080P.
The bigger point anyway is the fact many TVs are 1920x1080, and thus GT5 wouldn't be native resolution. A hell of a lot sharper than most other current gen games, yes, but it's still not fitting your TV's resolution and the definition of 1080p doesn't matter a damn there.
And it'd be the same if similar happened with 4K TVs, you'd still get a stretched image and not the optimal picture for your TV.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Hmm
What do you see here^
P.S By your logic ignoring the whole 16:9 aspect ratio 1080p implies.
Would a 1x1080 progressively scanned image be 1080p?
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Okay, first off, how is 1 pixel "not a line"? What? and 3x1080p would be acceptable to you? You realize how absurd that is, right?
Secondly, if 1080p can be damn-near anything and standards don't matter to you, then it's a pointless fucking term/argument and you shouldn't be defending next-gen consoles and insisting that they have can/will have 4k. If it can mean anything, then it's meaningless. This is why standards are important. It's not the same "because it ends in 1080". Literally, it is rendering more pixels at "true" 1080p.
It does make a difference, and rendering full 4k for the vast, vast majority of next-gen games will be neigh-on impossible, with the exception of very simplistic, likely-downloadable games. We know this because current monster PCs (see: >$2,000) can barely run some games at resolutions substantially smaller than 4k.
Putting your fingers in your ears and denying industry standards and objective, verifiable reality will not change this.
That's the joke. It's a one dimensional TV, which is silly. Kinda like your argument.
He's saying it's not a line horizontally. It's still really dumb that he's scrutinizing a joke post.
"if it has 1080 progressive lines going across vertically it's 1080P"
where are the 1080 lines going across vertically smart guy?
DyslexicAlucard
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p
I could quote multiple sources that will say essentially the same thing, but I'm about to head to bed. I guess I have to point this out: "1080p" is shorthand for 1920x1080p. It's not called 1080p because the verticle resolution is magically the only important quantifier; it's just shorter to say "1080p" and everyone will know what you mean. You can run things at other 1080 resolutions, but they're not "true" 1080p, in that they aren't adherring the the industry standard for the term.
Again, if standards aren't important, then the term itself is fucking meaningless. How do you not get this?
"1080p is a set of HDTV high-definition video modes that are characterized by 1080 horizontal lines of vertical resolution[1] and progressive scan, meaning the image is not interlaced as is the case with the 1080i display standard. The term assumes a widescreen aspect ratio of 16:9, thus implying a resolution of 1920 × 1080 (2.1 megapixels).
think about that
Do you seriously not realize you're being overly pedantic and missing the REAL point, that very few current gen games actually filled the full possible resolution they could have?
Gee, so you mean 1280x1080 isn't 1080p after all?
It's more important that he makes us see that 1x1080 isn't real 1080p. You need more than 1 line of pixels to qualify as true 1080p.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
It assumes it because, while 1080p refers to the verticle resolution, it implies, because it is an industry standard, that it is 1920x1080. Again, the only reason they refer only to the verticle resolution isn't because it's magically more important; it's just shorter to say it that way!
Also, way to selectively ignore every mention of industry standard and why terms are important. Funny, that.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
ForeverZero
Member
What would games even look like using 4k on current gen consoles? PS1? N64?
People expecting next gen consoles to use 4k needs to come back to reality. Developers will continue to use 720p in favor of 1080p (much less 4k) for added graphical effects and you'll learn to like it.
People expecting next gen consoles to use 4k needs to come back to reality. Developers will continue to use 720p in favor of 1080p (much less 4k) for added graphical effects and you'll learn to like it.
CambriaRising
Member
I've hated it for years. Thus is the side effect of Pc gaming. Developers simply will not be able to get away with the resolution degradation on a 4k set like they do now.
Truly, we aren't quite there yet with the hardware anyway, so it would be quite the waste for developers to even start thinking about optimizing it.
Lets get 1080p or 1440p right first guys.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Okay, let's conduct a thought experiment here.
What is closer to a "true" 1080p resolution: 100x1080, or 1920x1079?
UltimateIke
Member
When you reach certain points graphics can look WAY better at higher resolutions. And hell, last gen games in HD collections had effectively that happen (jumping from 4:3 480i to 16:9 720p), so it'd probably be something like that, but faring even better.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
My point was that Wipeout & GT5 is 1080P & other people nik picked about them having 1280x1080 resolution & I said what's the point of the nik picking about it having 1280 pixels going across when 1080P is defined by how many lines of pixels that it has stacked vertically. so saying that it's 1280x1080 does not change it from being 1080P
Yes yes that's what this is all about nice post very helpful.
So why didn't Philips call their Cinema wide 21:9 TV 1080P? it's not the standard 1920x1080 that you guys have appointed the only 1080P God.
"Cinema 21:9 LCD TV
142 cm (56"), Full HD 1080p, digital TV"
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Because it goes beyond the standard of 1920x1080 to 2560x1080p? Also, care to partake in the thought experiment...?
Or are you scared of digging your hole deeper?