Wrong, that would be "Resistance Is Character-Forming" or any of a dozen names found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spacecraft_in_the_Culture_series
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Halo 4 Story Spoilers and Speculations
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
Wrong, that would be "Resistance Is Character-Forming" or any of a dozen names found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spacecraft_in_the_Culture_series
I'd suggest you at least pick up the book and make up your own mind. It's as cheap as $5 on Amazon, and I'm sure you could find a library copy somewhere.
Forum discussions are not known for encouraging critiques.
My problem isn't so much that Glasslands was slanting Halsey, but that all the characters just seem to ignore ONI and specifically the boss lady's role in it. I mean I am supposed to believe that these characters have brains and do think with it right? because my thought process would be "who let this Halsey lady do this stuff?". Somebody commissioned these experiments right? yet everybody is satisfied with blaming Halsey and comparing her to Hitler and Stalin. Please, do tell who is blamed more in history for the atrocities committed during the WW2? the scientists who performed these acts or Hitler who commissioned them? If anything the boss lady (can't remember her name) is the Hitler in this scenario.
Vire
Member
From HBO:
http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1155597
Pretty awesome fanart of what Didact could look like.
Hope he's just as cool.
http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1155597
Pretty awesome fanart of what Didact could look like.
Hope he's just as cool.
dragonelite
Member
That is more how i had envision prometheans to look.
I like it.
Maybe a bit generic i dont really care
Demoncarnotaur
Member
That has me very excited.
And this.. This has me upset.. Because it is simply amazing, and very much what I was hoping the Prometheans/Knights would look like. It is very sleek and Forerunner while also looking intimidating and original. Thats some fantastic art.
ToyMachine228
Member
Can anyone clarify what the "sphinxes" are from Glasslands? Are they Prometheans or what's the deal? It's been a while since I've read it and I'm wondering if they have anything to do with Halo 4.
show me your skeleton
Member
the drawing looks like a mix of garrus (the large back piece/collar) and master chief's helmet. kinda.
Man, I don't recognize any of these names or places or fuck. The last novel I read was the one with the Johnson sex scene, did I really miss that much since then? Maybe I'll catch up this month.
It's baffling, yes, but doesn't seem the thread for that.
dragonelite
Member
Dont know about glass land but in the forerunner trilogy they are forerunner mech/tanks if im not mistaken. That interfaced with the user and stored data about its driver. That is why they were important for the didact they had some characteristics or part of his children in them.
They talk about it a bit on the Sparkast. As Izayoi said, this might not be the best thread to discuss this
ToyMachine228
Member
Hmmm. That's interesting. And that's what I meant, in the Forerunner trilogy, they're not in Glasslands, thanks for the correction. I always had a hard time picturing them while reading. When I hear the word "sphinx", I think of...A sphinx.
I'm assuming they look something like them. The description given in Cryptum makes me almost think of a Bandai/Power Rangers-esque mecha, with a Forerunner face and more animal body. The Didact's guardian sphinxes were special because they still held the durances of his children--I assume in most cases that this was not a common practice.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Glasslands and Thursday War will provide context for the UNSC and Covenant in Halo 4 whilst the first two Forerunner Trilogy books will provide some (but not all) context for Didact's involvement. in the game.
If you're pressed for time, best bet is to read one set (Glasslands and Thursday) and wiki the other.
The Forerunner books seems off in terms of Halo 4. There's a massive, important chunk missing about how Didact gets from there to the game. So it feels quite incomplete and less satisfying compared with Glasslands and Thursday War.
TacticalFox88
Banned
He should read the Forerunner trilogy. Far, FAR better books.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Better books? Sure.
But in terms of prepping for Halo 4? They are not that good. GL + TTW are much better for that purpose and that's all I'm getting at here.
This is very true.
Also it introduces us to VERY important things that have been added into the universe like the Didact (obviously), Geas system, Composer, Chakas and ect
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
The Terminals in Halo 3 first introduced us to the Didact.
You act like people actually read those things
(Seriously though, almost no one knows he was actually introduced in Halo 3, I always get blank stares when I bring up him or the Librarian)
ToyMachine228
Member
It is worth noting that the Forerunner trilogy of books is not yet finished. The final book in the trilogy doesn't release until AFTER Halo 4 is in our hands.
It is also worth noting that primordium isn't worth reading, either.
The last 15% of the book is pretty nutty but the other 85% is about the most dull and boring trash which doesn't build anything. It's almost all in the moment crap which ultimately has no consequence to any portion of any story.
The last 15% of the book is pretty nutty but the other 85% is about the most dull and boring trash which doesn't build anything. It's almost all in the moment crap which ultimately has no consequence to any portion of any story.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Eh, I liked em.. Why do the books need to have huge revelations to be worth reading? I found the world and the interactions between characters interesting.
ASSauLTxMasTER
Member
Woo, I see the story of this game exploding a LOT.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Glasslands and The Thursday War are part of the Kilo-Five trilogy which is also not finished and the final book in the trilogy won't be released until AFTER BOTH Halo 4 and the end of the Forerunner trilogy are out, well into next year maybe even the summer.
Hydrogen Sonata is out in a few days time - I'm sure we'll get more to choose from!
EDIT: Also - what's the deal with The Thursday War's Kindle availability in the UK?
Is Thursday War out already?? I can't get it on the Iphone til Tuesday. How is it? I actually enjoyed Glasslands.
Edit: Can someone explain to me why Glasslands seems to be getting so much hate? What did it do to the canon that was so bad? I'm not super up to date on the lore but I didn't notice anything blatant.
Edit 2: Ah this was handled on the previous page. Reading now.
Edit: Can someone explain to me why Glasslands seems to be getting so much hate? What did it do to the canon that was so bad? I'm not super up to date on the lore but I didn't notice anything blatant.
Edit 2: Ah this was handled on the previous page. Reading now.
I don't understand the hate either - though I'm only 24% in. I think it might actually be the best written Halo book so far.
Because there wasn't a story, really
"Let's travel across this halo!"
"This part has trees, I'm hungry"
"This part is a desert, I'm thirsty! Oh there's some dudes over there!"
"Here's a place with lots of dead bodies! Let's go inside to look at something then turn around and run away!"
"Look at that thing going around the halo!"
"I'm hungry"
"Let's tell boring stories around a campfire"
"I'm hungry, I don't think the old guy is going to make it!"
"I'm hungry!"
It's a book with so much filler, one where the author does such a horrible job describing the environment or situation everyone is in (really not much to describe when nothing is actually happening...)
Like... There's nothing relevant up until they stumble across the forerunner... That's where the story arc really starts. (Or continues)
I don't need revelations, I need an actual story... Some substance. That's what a book is... A story.
Post spoilers!
Ein Soph Aur
Member
I read the Glasslands summary on Halopedia and it didn't seem that bad.
Of course, I would have to read the book myself before I judge it.
Of course, I would have to read the book myself before I judge it.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Karen Traviss, as a person, has fuck all to do with why I hate Glasslands. She just wrote a book by writing in her personal and political opinions on characters that lacks an extreme amount of perspective.
In short, she should've stayed the fuck away from the Halo lore, because it's extremely obvious that she either didn't give a fuck about what was previously established or she was ignorant to the vast majority of univerese.
The basis of it is good, the way it's been written is just bad.
Someone's going to have to explain that again, because as I mentioned above so far it's the best written Halo novel in my opinion.
Only thing that really soured me it was the constant pointing at Halsey for her crimes. Just, it became so annoying that after a while I just yelled "We get it already she is a monster, jesus".
Everything about the Spartan III's and Kilo-Five was great though, just the Halsey thing ruined the whole book for me.
Glasslands is good, never understood the hate. Yeah, of course it's going to have some anti-Halsey sentiment in it, she's done some monstrous things and those always pop up after big wars end. Even looking past that, we're finally getting insight from some characters who don't think of her as a mother or aren't complicit in the crimes of the program itself, so yeah, there's gonna be a bit of tension. Mendez doesn't get a pass, he knows that he is a monster by proxy for not trying to stop the program and doesn't defend his actions. A line from the book, "Next time I'll try to find my conscience before the event, not after it." Parangosky doesn't get a pass either, there are multiple excerpts where she's in front of a board explaining her actions, saying that she knows it was all horrible. The characters that gave Halsey a pass in past books continue to do so, Fred mentions that he doesn't mind what has been done to him. It's not ignoring anything, there are just new perspectives.
Complaining about ONI providing arms for a civil war to destabilize the society we've been getting our asses kicked by for thirty years basically ignores how shady we've known they were the entire time. It's well within their "character" to do something like that, especially with the balance of power being what it is.
I just finished a re-read of it last night, and man, I couldn't feel stronger that the complaints are overblown. The context has changed, but the universe isn't destroyed because some dissenting opinions on pivotal events and already-controversial programs are now being presented. I think the events that are being set up, which judging from the Amazon preview seem like they could be really cool, more than make up for any heavy-handedness that people perceive.
Complaining about ONI providing arms for a civil war to destabilize the society we've been getting our asses kicked by for thirty years basically ignores how shady we've known they were the entire time. It's well within their "character" to do something like that, especially with the balance of power being what it is.
I just finished a re-read of it last night, and man, I couldn't feel stronger that the complaints are overblown. The context has changed, but the universe isn't destroyed because some dissenting opinions on pivotal events and already-controversial programs are now being presented. I think the events that are being set up, which judging from the Amazon preview seem like they could be really cool, more than make up for any heavy-handedness that people perceive.
I did notice the extremely prevalent and heavy-handed hatred towards Dr. Halsey, but I chalked that up to the character(s) just hating her that much. Didn't really consider it a point against the book. I thought all of the characters were fantastically written and very interesting.
Yes. Or you can just read a summary online. But Thursday War is a direct sequel, and I imagine you'll want the perspective that comes with knowledge of the first book. And it's Glasslands, not Grasslands, in case you're searching for it.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Really, she's done "Monstrous" things? Outside of kidnapping children, what exactly has she done to be worthy of called a monster? She's a grey character for a reason.
The reason they give her a "pass" is because they know that despite how morally bankrupt the S-II program may or may not have been, they realize that it was necessary.
The fact that we've always known ONI to be shady still doesn't excuse any of the outright stupidity of what they're trying to do. There is no logical, moral, or anything to gain by causing a civil war. From any analysis it's literally pointless and/or retarded. I'd consider Cerberus from the ME series far more competent than they are, and that's sad when you think about it.
Do you need another reason to be seen as a monster besides kidnapping seventy-five six year olds for the purpose of performing grisly medical procedures on them with a nearly 50% mortality rate? Cause uh, that's pretty monstrous. What about growing a bunch of flash clones of them that have full awareness and sentience, both to salve your conscience and to let their parents see them die so they wouldn't keep looking for their children? What about growing a clone of yourself, or your brain, at least, for the purpose of harvesting it to create an AI? What about abducting war assets that could have saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives during the battle for Earth and taking them to a safe place to soothe your own conscience? I like the Halsey character. I think she's fascinating. I don't think she's an irredeemable person, but surely you can see why people on the other end of the stick do. If you don't, that's fine, I guess, but I'm not going to keep making an argument that's been done a thousand times about why people treat her the way they do.
Look, I'm not going to get into an "ends don't justify the means" argument, because I don't know exactly where I stand on that, especially in the context of the Halo universe and the situation they were in, but I like that the book finally puts that question at the forefront by presenting people on both sides of it, regardless of the entrenched fiction that's accepted it so far. This stuff happens all the time. Look at the Guantanamo situation.
And yes, destabilizing a former military superpower when they're down makes a lot of sense, especially if you find yourself in a winning position all of a sudden and your relationship with them is tenuous at best. It's ONI's job to cement that victory by slowing down the Elites' recovery from the Schism, because once Infinity's ready to go, it doesn't seem like anything they've got is gonna be able to stop it.
Look, I'm not going to get into an "ends don't justify the means" argument, because I don't know exactly where I stand on that, especially in the context of the Halo universe and the situation they were in, but I like that the book finally puts that question at the forefront by presenting people on both sides of it, regardless of the entrenched fiction that's accepted it so far. This stuff happens all the time. Look at the Guantanamo situation.
And yes, destabilizing a former military superpower when they're down makes a lot of sense, especially if you find yourself in a winning position all of a sudden and your relationship with them is tenuous at best. It's ONI's job to cement that victory by slowing down the Elites' recovery from the Schism, because once Infinity's ready to go, it doesn't seem like anything they've got is gonna be able to stop it.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
I read the summary of Glasslands and pretty much agree with TacticalFox88 about it's flaws. I haven't read it, but I've never liked Karen Travis as an author, so I probably wont.
Again, which flaws are those? You guys keep talking as if everyone should automatically know exactly what your complaints are about the book - but I'm getting very few examples back.
gollumsluvslave
Member
I think there is plenty of substance to Primordium, however most of it I didn't really pick up until a re-read, and it was contingent on knowing who Chakas actually is. Sure, not much actually happens, but there is a lot that defines Chakas as a character, both with respect to his evolution (what he eventually will become), and what bearing his history will play in the eventual outcome, not to mention his intertwined, complex relationships with the Didact & the Librarian.
Of course, if you don't like Bear's prose it will be a struggle, but I really enjoyed Primordium, especially second time around.
Major Williams
Member
I absolutely love this thread. Couple of thoughts:
- The Didact has the potential to be one of the most dynamic and deep characters in this new trilogy. As a wise and brilliant tactician, I hope his mistrust of humans goes away and he becomes an ally.
- super duper excited for Thursday War tomorrow.
- The Didact has the potential to be one of the most dynamic and deep characters in this new trilogy. As a wise and brilliant tactician, I hope his mistrust of humans goes away and he becomes an ally.
- super duper excited for Thursday War tomorrow.
When you look back at them, Primordium was an entirely different book and an entirely different character than Cryptum. I think I enjoyed Cryptum more not because a lot more stuff happened (though a lot more did) but because I enjoyed Bornstellar's perspective more than Chakas', simply because it was less limited.
Still haven't listened to the audiobook to hear Didabo slip into his Guilty Spark voice.
Muffdraul
Member
Totally agree, last night I finally got past all of the pointless "journey across the Halo" stuff and actual interesting events began occurring. 20 chapters/approx. 200 pages of ponderous drudgery. I remember enjoying Cryptum more last year, but I can't remember a damn thing about it.
Are Glasslands and Thursday's War directly tie-ins to Halo 4?