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Halo 4 Story Spoilers and Speculations

wwm0nkey

Member
So one thing I noticed in the vidoc is that the Blue Prometheans are not just a class of Promethean but look to be a part of another faction. On the limited edition CD there are 2 glyphs, the Didiact and what might be the original Didact logo. The Didact's logo is in Red/Orange and the other is Blue, both colors we have seen on the Promethean factions.

So I guess there are 2 factions going at it in the Forerunner/Promethean army.
 
So one thing I noticed in the vidoc is that the Blue Prometheans are not just a class of Promethean but look to be a part of another faction. On the limited edition CD there are 2 glyphs, the Didiact and what might be the original Didact logo. The Didact's logo is in Red/Orange and the other is Blue, both colors we have seen on the Promethean factions.

So I guess there are 2 factions going at it in the Forerunner/Promethean army.

I really really hope that 343 is very explicit in their storytelling, and don't hide away all of this in terminals or winks to the audience. I want them to tell me what the hell is going on so I can actually understand it, and not just have Ur-Didact troops show up and let me figure out for myself they are his because "hey blue color".
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
I really really hope that 343 is very explicit in their storytelling, and don't hide away all of this in terminals or winks to the audience. I want them to tell me what the hell is going on so I can actually understand it, and not just have Ur-Didact troops show up and let me figure out for myself they are his because "hey blue color".

I wouldn't worry about that. You'll have a very clear cut explanation when you play the game of what's going on around you. I am 100% sure of that.
 

TheOddOne

Member
One thing I noticed in the Vidoc:

irot6PV4XPAR5.gif


Blue Prometheans are just standing around, maybe even helping Chief and Cortana?
 
Did anyone bring up the fact that the Prom Knights' pointless little inner arms are unmistakably human? Unless the Greg Bear novels again omitted some details, causing further confusion, the number of fingers doesn't match that found on a Forerunner hand (depending on their rate/mutation - six or seven). What this could mean is that the Knight is a machine not likely to have been designed by a Forerunner.

They do work for the Forerunners however, according to the description on the Halo website.
 
I think these scenes fit accurately.

MC encounters Blue Prometheans protecting the structure ahead?
Screen-Shot-2012-09-12-at-7.04.44-PM.png

1024px-Halo_4_Trailer_4.png
ibzKhDJHV29Rqx.gif

Chief arrives at the source of the light
Halo_4_Trailer_2.png

Cryptic Scene, Cortana Activates Something?
k4HQa.png

irot6PV4XPAR5.gif

This scene takes place maybe after it?
portalx.gif

And then E3 Ghost Scene...
Halo_4_Trailer_7.png
 

Flipyap

Member
Didact triple confirmed, this time on purpose- tonights GTTV promo

I wonder if we will see him at all? =D
Assuming he isn't living inside a robot body/wearing a flood suit/didn't turn into a giant robot version of himself made up of trash scattered around Requiem, that script excerpt suggests that we will.

"rushes towards Didact and jumps all over him (legs, arms, chest, back)
Several takes of "Cortana" tackling and climbing on random objects at full speed.
Didact is attacked by Cortana. He attempts to swat at Cortana as a means of self defence.
Didact unclenches his fist and drops Chief."

Edit: Oh, right, you mean on GTTV. In that case, no way.
 
Okay, so people are speculating on what Didact looks like, correct? This is really far fetched, but remember the first in game footage trailer of Halo shown a while back? At the end they flash a bunch of different screens, and the very last one is a really odd angle of Masterchief, like from the bottom up. This:
CovkK.jpg


When I was analyzing this video, at first I didn't even recognize it was the masterchief, I thought it was some alien/machine head and shoulders looking away. Like I said, far fetched as hell, but if I'm right, may as well get it out, right?
 
Okay, so people are speculating on what Didact looks like, correct? This is really far fetched, but remember the first in game footage trailer of Halo shown a while back? At the end they flash a bunch of different screens, and the very last one is a really odd angle of Masterchief, like from the bottom up. This:
CovkK.jpg


When I was analyzing this video, at first I didn't even recognize it was the masterchief, I thought it was some alien/machine head and shoulders looking away. Like I said, far fetched as hell, but if I'm right, may as well get it out, right?

What is the point of posting that? It is Master Chief.
 

Thoraxes

Member
I expect the Didact to be huge as fuck. Though, i'm still wondering which Didact is actually is, because the fate of the OG Didact was only touched on, but there was no scene about him, and if it's Bornstellar, he seems too calm a person (despite the brevet mutation) to go apeshit on humanity.

Also, I still want the GS/Librarian story touched upon in this game somehow.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
We certainly have our suspicion about enemy alliances, and throughout the ensuing chaos — which includes a Scorpion Tank run as well as a showdown on a makeshift airfield while piloting a Manta mech — Chief repeatedly lays much of the mayhem’s blame squarely on the shoulders of the Didact, an ancient Forerunner who MC believes has united the Covvies with their Promethean buddies. In fact, in a heated exchange between Del Rio and Chief, our favorite Spartan insists that they continue their hunt for the Didact while “he’s vulnerable.”

via OXM

infinity_delriobridges_04-w.jpg
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Has 343 used old school Forerunner symbols on anything since Legends? It's weird seeing only the two new alphabets all the time now. I mean, they're nice, but I miss those silly old glyphs.

jCeUu.png

You people see faces everywhere, don't you?

Not to my knowledge. It is curious that this alphabet is different than the one they used as recently as Anniversary, however. Not sure why there'd be a change.
 

Vire

Member
Same, but Im also surprised he got revealed officially.. Although I still think they weren't supposed to mention him since it seems other publications have gone out of their way not to.

Yeah it's weird how they had publications explicitly not talk about him yet Frankie referred to him by name in the GTTV episode.

I hope they keep what he looks like under wraps until I sit down and play it. Hopefully the design is cool.
 
So...will Halo 4 retcon Glasslands, like Reach did Fall of Reach?

Because I cannot in any shape or form, see how 343 would consider that garbage book that rapes and derails canon on a fanfiction like level, anything close to canon.

How that book got approved for print, I'll NEVER understand.
 
So...will Halo 4 retcon Glasslands, like Reach did Fall of Reach?

Because I cannot in any shape or form, see how 343 would consider that garbage book that rapes and derails canon on a fanfiction like level, anything close to canon.

How that book got approved for print, I'll NEVER understand.

Can I ask what you think ruined the fiction?

I read the book and had no issue with what happened.
 
Can I ask what you think ruined the fiction?

I read the book and had no issue with what happened.

Let's see. Traviss basically ruined every single established character from previous books and made some of the dumbest fucking decisions to the Halo canon. Let's make a list.

First off, ONI. What the fuck? No, seriously. What in the flying FUCK!? They want to incite a civil war? Did these morons forget that were it not for the Arbiter and the Elites that the entire Human race would be fucking extinct!? Are you shitting me right now? That'd be like Britan turning on the US at the end of WWII

it's clear that the Elites viewed humanity as a worthy and honorable opponent, based on certain passages from earlier books and stuff that came with the Legendary editions of the games. Indeed, we lasted far longer than any race the Covenant fought before being absolved. By the end of the war, even the youth of Sanghelios, notably N’tho ‘Sraom, were becomign human sympathizers. However in Glasslands, every major Elite character sans the Arbiter feels that humanity is now vermin and must be eliminated. Somehow I doubt Bungie intended the alliance between the Elites and Humanity to become this hostile, drama-ladden relationship when the remarks of several Elites in the novels, the Conversations and the growing human sympathizer movement among the Elites is taken into question.

Now obviously, of course these guys have been fighting for 30 years and they shouldn't just automatically be best friends, but why the fuck would either side want to fuck with the other for any logical reason.

1)The elites were lied too in attacking humanity. Continuing with that line of thinking of "Oh, Humans need to be wiped out." is essentially saying "Hey Prophet of Truth, even though you lied to us and nearly wiped our kind out, let's continue to serve your will indirectly by being morons.

2)Humanity is recovering and all ONI wants to think about is causing a civil war between the Elites? At the very least they should be neutral. Not allies...but not enemies either.

Dr. Halsey: The actions of Dr. Catherine Halsey have always been shaded in grey. Yes, she kidnapped children, cloned them and turned them into the Spartan-IIs. However, she did this because it was the only good option left to combat a colony-wide insurrection that had no qualms regarding nuking colonies killing millions of innocent civilians, bombing public areas that kill innocents just to get at a single UNSC or CMA official, and hijacking ships and killing the crew.

At least she cared about the children, knowing each one by name, not their number, in and out of their armor, testing the augmentations before administering them and by giving their parents closure with the clones. However in Glasslands, no positive opinion is given to Halsey. She is reduced to a paranoid, emotional wreak who everyone hates because of the S-II program. Meanwhile Colonel Ackerson creates suicide soldiers to merely buy time for the UNSC and nobody seems all that mad about him, heck Parandosky was going to give him the S-IV program.

Even Mendez hates her? His hands are just as dirty as hers as he fucking trained the Spartans themselves and now he's calling her out on something he had a more hands on approach with?

[*]Lucy Punched Dr. Halsey. A SPARTAN....PUNCHED....a FEMALE CIVILIAN. And all she got was a broken nose or black eye?! What the fuck is this bullshit?

[*]Humanity recovering and reverse-engineering Forerunner technology in a ridiculous amount of time. Even if you do accept the handwave that "Oh Humans are the heirs to the Forerunners of course they'd understand it better than others", humanity was almost at the brink of extinction. Any form of common sense would be to rebuild the fucking basics before jumping head first into reverse engineering ancient technology that literally NO ONE understands...at all.

[*]Spartan IVs existing period. Especially in the incredibly short amount of time.

[*]Great Schism essentially became pointless.


Basically the whole book is "Halsey's a monster who deserves to die!" and "Poor Spartans, I just wanna hold 'em and tell 'em it'll be okay!" every other line. Worse, oh so much worse, Travis not only basically retcons Halsey's entire attitude and reasons toward doing it, but she makes her an idiot who can't defend herself against those who accuse her. The same people, in fact, that helped her carry the whole thing out. And then did it again. And again. And again.
The Conflict Ball that drives some of the plot is braindead stupid. The hypocrisy is insufferable.

343 may have *got* Halo on a Gameplay and Visual level, but if Glasslands is a sign of what's to come for the actual story, then the series died at Halo 3 in my eyes.
 

Vire

Member
Let's see. Traviss basically ruined every single established character from previous books and made some of the dumbest fucking decisions to the Halo canon. Let's make a list.

First off, ONI. What the fuck? No, seriously. What in the flying FUCK!? They want to incite a civil war? Did these morons forget that were it not for the Arbiter and the Elites that the entire Human race would be fucking extinct!? Are you shitting me right now? That'd be like Britan turning on the US at the end of WWII

it's clear that the Elites viewed humanity as a worthy and honorable opponent, based on certain passages from earlier books and stuff that came with the Legendary editions of the games. Indeed, we lasted far longer than any race the Covenant fought before being absolved. By the end of the war, even the youth of Sanghelios, notably N’tho ‘Sraom, were becomign human sympathizers. However in Glasslands, every major Elite character sans the Arbiter feels that humanity is now vermin and must be eliminated. Somehow I doubt Bungie intended the alliance between the Elites and Humanity to become this hostile, drama-ladden relationship when the remarks of several Elites in the novels, the Conversations and the growing human sympathizer movement among the Elites is taken into question.

Now obviously, of course these guys have been fighting for 30 years and they shouldn't just automatically be best friends, but why the fuck would either side want to fuck with the other for any logical reason.

1)The elites were lied too in attacking humanity. Continuing with that line of thinking of "Oh, Humans need to be wiped out." is essentially saying "Hey Prophet of Truth, even though you lied to us and nearly wiped our kind out, let's continue to serve your will indirectly by being morons.

2)Humanity is recovering and all ONI wants to think about is causing a civil war between the Elites? At the very least they should be neutral. Not allies...but not enemies either.

Dr. Halsey: The actions of Dr. Catherine Halsey have always been shaded in grey. Yes, she kidnapped children, cloned them and turned them into the Spartan-IIs. However, she did this because it was the only good option left to combat a colony-wide insurrection that had no qualms regarding nuking colonies killing millions of innocent civilians, bombing public areas that kill innocents just to get at a single UNSC or CMA official, and hijacking ships and killing the crew.

At least she cared about the children, knowing each one by name, not their number, in and out of their armor, testing the augmentations before administering them and by giving their parents closure with the clones. However in Glasslands, no positive opinion is given to Halsey. She is reduced to a paranoid, emotional wreak who everyone hates because of the S-II program. Meanwhile Colonel Ackerson creates suicide soldiers to merely buy time for the UNSC and nobody seems all that mad about him, heck Parandosky was going to give him the S-IV program.

Even Mendez hates her? His hands are just as dirty as hers as he fucking trained the Spartans themselves and now he's calling her out on something he had a more hands on approach with?

[*]Lucy Punched Dr. Halsey. A SPARTAN....PUNCHED....a FEMALE CIVILIAN. And all she got was a broken nose or black eye?! What the fuck is this bullshit?

[*]Humanity recovering and reverse-engineering Forerunner technology in a ridiculous amount of time. Even if you do accept the handwave that "Oh Humans are the heirs to the Forerunners of course they'd understand it better than others", humanity was almost at the brink of extinction. Any form of common sense would be to rebuild the fucking basics before jumping head first into reverse engineering ancient technology that literally NO ONE understands...at all.

[*]Spartan IVs existing period. Especially in the incredibly short amount of time.

[*]Great Schism essentially became pointless.


Basically the whole book is "Halsey's a monster who deserves to die!" and "Poor Spartans, I just wanna hold 'em and tell 'em it'll be okay!" every other line. Worse, oh so much worse, Travis not only basically retcons Halsey's entire attitude and reasons toward doing it, but she makes her an idiot who can't defend herself against those who accuse her. The same people, in fact, that helped her carry the whole thing out. And then did it again. And again. And again.
The Conflict Ball that drives some of the plot is braindead stupid. The hypocrisy is insufferable.

343 may have *got* Halo on a Gameplay and Visual level, but if Glasslands is a sign of what's to come for the actual story, then the series died at Halo 3 in my eyes.

I'm not disagreeing with anything in this post. Karen Travis came off as a person with very little knowledge of the universe, twisting it to fit her own political laden agenda. Thankfully though, Travis is not in charge of the storyline for the Halo Reclaimer trilogy. It's not entirely shocking though, we know what she is capable of, (Did you see Gears of War 3's trainwreck of a storyline? Dear god)...

I'm just hoping the majority of what she wrote will be interpreted and rewritten in a very different way.
 

Merguson

Banned
So...will Halo 4 retcon Glasslands, like Reach did Fall of Reach?

Because I cannot in any shape or form, see how 343 would consider that garbage book that rapes and derails canon on a fanfiction like level, anything close to canon.

How that book got approved for print, I'll NEVER understand.

Considering it's suppose to tie strongly in Halo 4 (which also includes Greg Bear's trilogy).

The answer is.. probably not.

EDIT: However, I can't remember where I heard that both series were suppose to tie into Halo 4 strongly. So I might be mistaken.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
There's a lot here, but let me touch on some overarching and meta points.

First off, ONI. What the fuck? No, seriously. What in the flying FUCK!? They want to incite a civil war? Did these morons forget that were it not for the Arbiter and the Elites that the entire Human race would be fucking extinct!? Are you shitting me right now? That'd be like Britan turning on the US at the end of WWII.

Not exactly like Britain and the US. More like the USSR and the US. The Russians allied with us because they hated the Germans. The Elites mostly went along with the Arbiter because the Prophets basically cast their lot with the Brutes and (at least via the High Prophets) sanctioned a genocide.

No one is saying ONI is doing the right thing, or even the smart thing, but I can certainly see why they're doing it. The past is the past, and these guys are schemers who have spent their whole life fighting the Elites. They are being rational, if not clear-headed.

[*]Lucy Punched Dr. Halsey. A SPARTAN....PUNCHED....a FEMALE CIVILIAN. And all she got was a broken nose or black eye?! What the fuck is this bullshit?

Maybe she wasn't so angry that she forgot to pull her punches. The power of Spartans has been conveniently forgotten before. Case in point: how the hell would John not break Johnson's arm by using him for support? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmKL8EiwUsE

My point is that while I don't agree with a lot of Traviss' views, what makes sense canon-wise and one's interpretation of it are two different things.
 
Let's see. Traviss basically ruined every single established character from previous books and made some of the dumbest fucking decisions to the Halo canon. Let's make a list.

First off, ONI. What the fuck? No, seriously. What in the flying FUCK!? They want to incite a civil war? Did these morons forget that were it not for the Arbiter and the Elites that the entire Human race would be fucking extinct!? Are you shitting me right now? That'd be like Britan turning on the US at the end of WWII

it's clear that the Elites viewed humanity as a worthy and honorable opponent, based on certain passages from earlier books and stuff that came with the Legendary editions of the games. Indeed, we lasted far longer than any race the Covenant fought before being absolved. By the end of the war, even the youth of Sanghelios, notably N’tho ‘Sraom, were becomign human sympathizers. However in Glasslands, every major Elite character sans the Arbiter feels that humanity is now vermin and must be eliminated. Somehow I doubt Bungie intended the alliance between the Elites and Humanity to become this hostile, drama-ladden relationship when the remarks of several Elites in the novels, the Conversations and the growing human sympathizer movement among the Elites is taken into question.

Now obviously, of course these guys have been fighting for 30 years and they shouldn't just automatically be best friends, but why the fuck would either side want to fuck with the other for any logical reason.

1)The elites were lied too in attacking humanity. Continuing with that line of thinking of "Oh, Humans need to be wiped out." is essentially saying "Hey Prophet of Truth, even though you lied to us and nearly wiped our kind out, let's continue to serve your will indirectly by being morons.

2)Humanity is recovering and all ONI wants to think about is causing a civil war between the Elites? At the very least they should be neutral. Not allies...but not enemies either.

No, that analogy of the UK vs US after WW2 does not hold up. The UK and the US were allies from the beginning. The only time those two countries were ever at war was a hundred years earlier when the US was gaining independence. The Covenant/Elites and Humanity were at war for thirty years. The elites are great warriors that are capable of a lot of things. Many did not want to join humanity when the Covenant split. It doesn't help matters that the football nuke blew up most of the Covenant fleet after the covenant already split. That more than likely hurt negotiations in some fashion.

Sure, the Elites might have admired the fighting strength and determination of humanity, but that feeling was certainly not mutual. It's pretty evident that most of humanity hated the Covenant, and therefore the Elites, with a passion. A lot of humans, judging from what has been released on the subject, did not agree with the alliance anyway.

Of course ONI is going to kick them while they're down. Sure, they could be pretty decent allies, but you have to weigh the pros against the cons in that situation. The Elites depended too much on the covenant and were basically set back years when they fell apart. They would not be useful allies for a long time, and when you only knew them through war, it would be hard to 100% trust them. If I was in that situation, I would do the same. I'm sure most people would, too.


Dr. Halsey: The actions of Dr. Catherine Halsey have always been shaded in grey. Yes, she kidnapped children, cloned them and turned them into the Spartan-IIs. However, she did this because it was the only good option left to combat a colony-wide insurrection that had no qualms regarding nuking colonies killing millions of innocent civilians, bombing public areas that kill innocents just to get at a single UNSC or CMA official, and hijacking ships and killing the crew.

At least she cared about the children, knowing each one by name, not their number, in and out of their armor, testing the augmentations before administering them and by giving their parents closure with the clones. However in Glasslands, no positive opinion is given to Halsey. She is reduced to a paranoid, emotional wreak who everyone hates because of the S-II program. Meanwhile Colonel Ackerson creates suicide soldiers to merely buy time for the UNSC and nobody seems all that mad about him, heck Parandosky was going to give him the S-IV program.

Even Mendez hates her? His hands are just as dirty as hers as he fucking trained the Spartans themselves and now he's calling her out on something he had a more hands on approach with?

The way Mendez got off the hook is/was lame, yes, but you also have to look at it this way. When some jackass guy jihads a building, you get mad at him, yeah, but you don't blame everything on him. You blame the guy who told him to do it. Mendez was following orders. He should have gone about it differently, but Halsey does deserve far more blame than Mendez did.

[*]Lucy Punched Dr. Halsey. A SPARTAN....PUNCHED....a FEMALE CIVILIAN. And all she got was a broken nose or black eye?! What the fuck is this bullshit?

To me, it did not seem like a situation where Lucy was trying to punch Halsey to knock her out/attack her/whatever. It was more of a punch to shut her up and stop her from doing something stupid. I'm sure you've gotten in different situations where you have to use varying amounts of force in your life. Lucy is the same way, I'd assume.


[*]Humanity recovering and reverse-engineering Forerunner technology in a ridiculous amount of time. Even if you do accept the handwave that "Oh Humans are the heirs to the Forerunners of course they'd understand it better than others", humanity was almost at the brink of extinction. Any form of common sense would be to rebuild the fucking basics before jumping head first into reverse engineering ancient technology that literally NO ONE understands...at all.

Did I miss something in the book that said they reverse engineered everything since....whenever? It's pretty easy to assume that the project was under construction for years upon years upon years, and with new discoveries, new additions were made to the ship. It's not inconceivable to imagine that it was not a spur of the moment thing.


[*]Spartan IVs existing period. Especially in the incredibly short amount of time.

Eh. Same as above. Who said they were so new? I could definitely have missed it, but it seems like it was in the planning stages for a long time. And they were a volunteer group now instead of being drafted for it. From the sounds of it, from what I read in GL, was that the project was just getting under way. That could mean a number of things, but them just being trained in during the events of the book is certainly possible.


[*]Great Schism essentially became pointless.

How so? I'm not sure I understand this.

Basically the whole book is "Halsey's a monster who deserves to die!" and "Poor Spartans, I just wanna hold 'em and tell 'em it'll be okay!" every other line. Worse, oh so much worse, Travis not only basically retcons Halsey's entire attitude and reasons toward doing it, but she makes her an idiot who can't defend herself against those who accuse her. The same people, in fact, that helped her carry the whole thing out. And then did it again. And again. And again.
The Conflict Ball that drives some of the plot is braindead stupid. The hypocrisy is insufferable.

343 may have *got* Halo on a Gameplay and Visual level, but if Glasslands is a sign of what's to come for the actual story, then the series died at Halo 3 in my eyes.

I mean, a lot of it I disagree with, but there are some points that are valid. Your take it or leave it attitude at the bottom though, that's pretty hilarious. Did you read Cryptum? Primordium? Both were great stories that add a lot to the Halo universe. Evolutions did well to explain and flesh out a lot of things as well. Glasslands was certainly not perfect, but it was a pretty darn good story that moved a lot of plot points in good directions. I trust 343 in pretty much every department related to Halo. Looks like you don't want change, and 343 is moving the main story along in quite a few ways outside of the games, which might be against your liking.

Feel free to respond if you want. I haven't been able to discuss the books as much as I'd like to lately. It's fun.
 

Flipyap

Member
You people see faces everywhere, don't you?

Not to my knowledge. It is curious that this alphabet is different than the one they used as recently as Anniversary, however. Not sure why there'd be a change.
First off,
4GPJll.jpg


Anniversary terminals actually used both new alphabets. You could see this one when Spark was trying to decipher the message from the crashed ship and on some minor "UI" elements.

Let's see. Traviss basically ruined every single established character from previous books and made some of the dumbest fucking decisions to the Halo canon. Let's make a list.

First off, ONI. What the fuck? No, seriously. What in the flying FUCK!? They want to incite a civil war? Did these morons forget that were it not for the Arbiter and the Elites that the entire Human race would be fucking extinct!? Are you shitting me right now? That'd be like Britan turning on the US at the end of WWII
You're talking about the dudes who tried to weaponize the goshdarned Flood. Those guys are fucking idiots.
Also, evil. The mustache-twirling kind.
 
No, that analogy of the UK vs US after WW2 does not hold up. The UK and the US were allies from the beginning. The only time those two countries were ever at war was a hundred years earlier when the US was gaining independence. The Covenant/Elites and Humanity were at war for thirty years. The elites are great warriors that are capable of a lot of things. Many did not want to join humanity when the Covenant split. It doesn't help matters that the football nuke blew up most of the Covenant fleet after the covenant already split. That more than likely hurt negotiations in some fashion.

Sure, the Elites might have admired the fighting strength and determination of humanity, but that feeling was certainly not mutual. It's pretty evident that most of humanity hated the Covenant, and therefore the Elites, with a passion. A lot of humans, judging from what has been released on the subject, did not agree with the alliance anyway.

Of course ONI is going to kick them while they're down. Sure, they could be pretty decent allies, but you have to weigh the pros against the cons in that situation. The Elites depended too much on the covenant and were basically set back years when they fell apart. They would not be useful allies for a long time, and when you only knew them through war, it would be hard to 100% trust them. If I was in that situation, I would do the same. I'm sure most people would, too.

Really, you would do the same? Why? Considering that if the Elites found out about ONI's activities, they would, well within their right, to finish humanity off.

The series has, more or less, implied that had the Prophets not been deluded and insane, the most likely outcome of contact at Harvest would've been peaceful. The ONLY reason that any of the Elites hate Humans is because of the 30 year war. Considering that they were on the the giving end of the genocide why would Elites, logically, hate humanity anywhere to the extent that humans would the Covenant? Their hatred should be directed at the Brutes and Prophets.

And how would they be decent allies only for a time? At that particular moment, the Elites still had technology that was light years ahead of the UNSC outside of the tech they managed to reverse engineer. I admit the burying of the hatchet, so to speak, would've taken awhile, but in baby steps, it could've, or WOULD have been done.

So, knowing all this, what's ONI's plan to protect Earth? Arm a Sangheili splinter faction of zealots who want to assassinate the Arbiter in the hopes that this will destabilize the Elites enough to prevent them from attacking Humanity. Note that A: The Arbiter is the most influential Elite in favor of making peace with the humans, and B. A good portion of the rebel Elites want to continue their war with humanity.

If that's not logic fail, I don't know what is.

The way Mendez got off the hook is/was lame, yes, but you also have to look at it this way. When some jackass guy jihads a building, you get mad at him, yeah, but you don't blame everything on him. You blame the guy who told him to do it. Mendez was following orders. He should have gone about it differently, but Halsey does deserve far more blame than Mendez did.

How? Why exactly should he get far more blame? As a matter of fact, why the hell is Halsey taking ANY blame at all. She did what she did out of NECESSITY! One way or the other, the Spartans were needed. The Covenant attacking humanity only re-enforced that point home. Was it morally right? Perhaps not. Was it necessary? Considering that John (along with the Elites, mind you) is the primary reason why Humanity still exists as a whole, I'd more than say it was justified.

Halsey saved humanity. End of story. The fact that she's treated like some deplorable red-haired stepchild, is severely lacking perspective.

Did I miss something in the book that said they reverse engineered everything since....whenever? It's pretty easy to assume that the project was under construction for years upon years upon years, and with new discoveries, new additions were made to the ship. It's not inconceivable to imagine that it was not a spur of the moment thing.

Most of the ship's technology came from artifacts and whatnot from the Onxy shield world. So, yes, it was a "spur of the moment" type thing.

Eh. Same as above. Who said they were so new? I could definitely have missed it, but it seems like it was in the planning stages for a long time. And they were a volunteer group now instead of being drafted for it. From the sounds of it, from what I read in GL, was that the project was just getting under way. That could mean a number of things, but them just being trained in during the events of the book is certainly possible.

It comes off as pointless, considering that, unlike the S-IIs, there was still a good number of S-IIIs left. Now, if they were to try and make them after the war, then that'd be...okay I guess. But it still comes of the fundamental question: Why? They already had more than enough Spartans and the war would be over.

How so? I'm not sure I understand this.

The Great Schism was supposed to be a symbolic and literal breaking of the Covenant when the Elites learned the truth about Halo and the Forerunners.

By having them still want to hate and destroy humanity, it makes the entire conflict pointless and make the race as a whole look like a bunch of blind sheep (Humanity isn't much better in this regard, but that's besides the point). In a way, Truth still won in the end. He may not have gotten to activate the Halos, but he still would see Humanity's end.

And for those who say to wait till the next book, don't count on it. Thursday War is likely to continue the incessant stupidity by having
ONI nuking Sanghelios
:((((((((
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Halsey saved humanity. End of story. The fact that she's treated like some deplorable red-haired stepchild, is severely lacking perspective.

Remove the plank from your own eye. You're arguing "the ends justify the means" for Halsey's actions but demonizing ONI taking similar steps (not to mention that the Navy were the people bankrolling Halsey.)

I find it mind-boggling that you cannot see how interpretation and fact are not the same. Traviss really hasn't fucked up canon, she's conflicted with how people saw Halsey. Those are two different charges.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Remove the plank from your own eye. You're arguing "the ends justify the means" for Halsey's actions but demonizing ONI taking similar steps (not to mention that the Navy were the people bankrolling Halsey.)

I find it mind-boggling that you cannot see how interpretation and fact are not the same. Traviss really hasn't fucked up canon, she's conflicted with how people saw Halsey. Those are two different charges.

He's also ignoring the deliberate implication that ONI is using Halsey and encouraging a campaign to discredit her as leverage. But you guys are going to both enjoy certain aspects of Halo 4. As it pertains to this conversation.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
He's also ignoring the deliberate implication that ONI is using Halsey and encouraging a campaign to discredit her as leverage. But you guys are going to both enjoy certain aspects of Halo 4. As it pertains to this conversation.

Yay!

For my part, I do hope ONI gets its comeuppance and Halsey gets a chance at redemption (although as Slightly has said elsewhere, what kind of redemption story fits for a character that has already indirectly saved her species?) I just think people are throwing the baby with the bathwater in regards to Traviss. Definitely interested where (all three) trilogies are headed.

Frank, more detail on exactly how the books get written (and vetted) would I think be a fascinating podcast or article topic and help ease some of the concerns (I know we got Traviss in her own words already, but I'm thinking from the perspective of the 343i guys and gals.)
 
Remove the plank from your own eye. You're arguing "the ends justify the means" for Halsey's actions but demonizing ONI taking similar steps (not to mention that the Navy were the people bankrolling Halsey.)

I find it mind-boggling that you cannot see how interpretation and fact are not the same. Traviss really hasn't fucked up canon, she's conflicted with how people saw Halsey. Those are two different charges.

Yes because ONI deliberately trying to incite war and cause Chaos that could potentially bite them hard in the ass and Halsey's actions are totally the same thing.

No ONE is arguing or has argued that Halsey was a saint. Far from it actually.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Yes because ONI deliberately trying to incite war and cause Chaos that could potentially bite them hard in the ass and Halsey's actions are totally the same thing.

No ONE is arguing or has argued that Halsey was a saint. Far from it actually.

ONI's plans are the antithesis of chaos. Sure, sow dissension among the enemy, but they know exactly where they stand. It's about control.
 
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