Support NeoGAF

[Donnie]

no it wouldn't (for MS)

people with lesser model will play at lower res, IQ and framerate, that is all.

That would only work if all games were developed to the limits of the basic version and simply ran at a higher resolution on the pro model. In which case you wouldn't get the most out of the pro hardware as resolution is only one part of a games processing requirements.

Unless they treat each version of the consoles as different consoles, but as thuway says that adds even more cost for developers.

It came from a book about the development of the 360.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0977784215/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Ah right, now I can stop calling it a rumour.

EDIT: Though I don't think much of Dean Takahashi personally, but I assume most of his info comes in interviews with quotes so..

 

[manzo]

Console games are programmed to the metal. This requires significant manpower and team work. If Microsoft introduced multiple SKUs with variable fidelity, it would increase said cost for title. It would throw a wrench into a very complicated system.

I know. But if the pro model would be the one where you deal with the low level code and optimize, then just remove details x and y on the basic model?

 

[bgassassin]

Ah right, now I can stop calling it a rumour.

EDIT: Though I don't think much of Dean Takahashi personally, but I assume most of his info comes in interviews with quotes so..

The reason I know about the book is because last year I came across this old B3D thread and some of the posts talk about that specific info.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=33335

 

[thuway]

I know. But if the pro model would be the one where you deal with the low level code and optimize, then just remove details x and y on the basic model?

The reason we have games that look like Uncharted 2, Gears of War 2, and Resident Evil 6 on 2005 hardware is programmers are forced to work within those limitations. This is where the bulk of cheats, programming tricks, and new ideas arise. If Microsoft introduced multiple tiers of SKUs with different fundamental hardware, it would be a terrible idea.

WHAT IMM SAYIN IS:
Developer's are going to spend less time optimizing and learning the inherent intricacies of the hardware. The Last of Us and Halo 4 are a testament to what fixed design and an intelligent team can bring with antiquated machines. If you showed these games to anyone in 2005, they would not believe they were possible.

 

[thuway]

The reason I know about the book is because last year I came across this old B3D thread and some of the posts talk about that specific info.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=33335

Fuck this website. So much stealth and stupidity.

 

[KageMaru]

edit:

I think it's a nice idea now to have a look at KageMaru's old post from b3d:

Scalable patent and insider(?) info

So basically, if current rumors were ALL true; there would be different versions of the 720. Let's pretend both models would be realistically something like this:

1. Basic model

2 teraflops GPU
4 GB RAM

2. Pro model

4 teraflops GPU
6 GB RAM

(original "insider" info stated 5TF/4GB and 7TF/6GB, but those are pretty insane numbers to be real)

Would this kind of model system segregate the userbase? Or everything would be coded to work on both versions, but with additional texture detail, better resolution etc. on the "pro" model?

forgot I even posted that lol.

I should add who directed me to this forum is a total xbox fanboy, so as with everything else, I take this with a grain of salt.

Fuck this website. So much stealth and stupidity.

Not sure if serious. There aren't as many devs that post, well they still do just not in the console forums, but it's still a great site to learn from.

 

[i-Lo]

I think it's a nice idea now to have a look at KageMaru's old post from b3d:

Scalable patent and insider(?) info

So basically, if current rumors were ALL true; there would be different versions of the 720. Let's pretend both models would be realistically something like this:

1. Basic model

2 teraflops GPU
4 GB RAM

2. Pro model

4 teraflops GPU
6 GB RAM

(original "insider" info stated 5TF/4GB and 7TF/6GB, but those are pretty insane numbers to be real)

Would this kind of model system segregate the userbase? Or everything would be coded to work on both versions, but with additional texture detail, better resolution etc. on the "pro" model?

The BS is strongest with this one.

 

[higherARC05]

I will only say this.

Friend works at ******* and told me they have the nextXBOX devkits. He wouldn't tell me specifics about the cpu and gpu and such. But said this to me over chat,

"lets just say that wheny you're developing for the pc 32-bit, 4gb might be the thereotical limit but you normally and only allocate 2gigs. Well, for the new xbox, you can allocate well over 4 gigs

that's all i'm going to say"

Take it what you will.

All I can say is I can not wait to see their game.

 

[specialguy]

so it's 64 bit and 4+GB. We already knew that. (dont get me wrong thx for tidbit tho)

 

[DieH@rd]

"well over 4 gigs" means 6 or 8. I think that final number will be 8, with 2 reserved for OS and kinect2. Dont ask me how will they shove 8gigs of ram in the mobo.

 

[Ardenyal]

Lets just say what about vram?

(he forgot/ignored it in his PC example)

 

[Proelite]

I will only say this.

Friend works at ******* and told me they have the nextXBOX devkits. He wouldn't tell me specifics about the cpu and gpu and such. But said this to me over chat,

"lets just say that wheny you're developing for the pc 32-bit, 4gb might be the thereotical limit but you normally and only allocate 2gigs. Well, for the new xbox, you can allocate well over 4 gigs

that's all i'm going to say"

Take it what you will.

All I can say is I can not wait to see their game.

We've know for quite a while the the devkits have 12GBs of ram in them.

 

[CitizenCope]

I will only say this.

Friend works at ******* and told me they have the nextXBOX devkits. He wouldn't tell me specifics about the cpu and gpu and such. But said this to me over chat,

"lets just say that wheny you're developing for the pc 32-bit, 4gb might be the thereotical limit but you normally and only allocate 2gigs. Well, for the new xbox, you can allocate well over 4 gigs

that's all i'm going to say"

Take it what you will.

All I can say is I can not wait to see their game.

Rahhhhh!
I don't really know what it means but I'm excited.

 

[lockload]

I cant see there being two 'performance' versions of the next xbox it will make it twice the work for devs

What i could see if a sort of net/internet box that has no optical drive and is designed to run xbla/digital content

 

[CLEEK]

It would make sense if MS kept XBLA games as 360, rather then introducing Xbox3 arcade games. So future XBLA game would work on both old and new Xboxes. It would allow MS to continue to support the 360 with new content, without the cost of full retail game development.

If they did that, a disc-less, online only Xbox would make sense, as you'd have access to the the non-gaming partner services, XBLA and GoD.

 

[FatalMuzza]

It would make sense if MS kept XBLA games as 360, rather then introducing Xbox3 arcade games. So future XBLA game would work on both old and new Xboxes. It would allow MS to continue to support the 360 with new content, without the cost of full retail game development.

If they did that, a disc-less, online only Xbox would make sense, as you'd have access to the the non-gaming partner services, XBLA and GoD.

So arcade games will all look significantly inferior to retail games on the 720 diminishing their value and decreasing sales?

 

[CadetMahoney]

It would make sense if MS kept XBLA games as 360, rather then introducing Xbox3 arcade games. So future XBLA game would work on both old and new Xboxes. It would allow MS to continue to support the 360 with new content, without the cost of full retail game development.

If they did that, a disc-less, online only Xbox would make sense, as you'd have access to the the non-gaming partner services, XBLA and GoD.

Interesting situation, and how will they market them if they allow cross-play of the same titles. . . perhaps buying one version buys the other too? That will clash with the profile it was bought on though, since you can't have the same profile running on both machines I guess.

 

[CLEEK]

So arcade games will all look significantly inferior to retail games on the 720 diminishing their value and decreasing sales?

Making them universal on both 360 and Xbox3 would increase sales and prevent splintering the market. See iOS games working on older iDevices and the latest, greatest ones.

Interesting situation, and how will they market them if they allow cross-play of the same titles. . . perhaps buying one version buys the other too? That will clash with the profile it was bought on though, since you can't have the same profile running on both machines I guess.

What? No, it would be just like Minis games, that are native PSP games, but also work on the more advanced PS3. Or PSP games, that also work on the Vita.

You buy the game once. It works on both old and new consoles, as they share the same profile and the newer console is BC with the older one.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I will only say this.

Friend works at ******* and told me they have the nextXBOX devkits. He wouldn't tell me specifics about the cpu and gpu and such. But said this to me over chat,

"lets just say that wheny you're developing for the pc 32-bit, 4gb might be the thereotical limit but you normally and only allocate 2gigs. Well, for the new xbox, you can allocate well over 4 gigs

that's all i'm going to say"

Take it what you will.

All I can say is I can not wait to see their game.

Looking at the leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint

It's also a whole home DVR which will need multiple tuners.

From KageMaru post on BY3D

PS4 and our next box will both be power-house beasts. I wouldn't doubt that Sony *would* try to (once again) find some leg-up on our platform in terms of raw power... but will it matter? No. They'll be a virtual 'wash' once again, or close enough to it that any spec spikes one has over the other won't manifest itself in a meaningful way.

What will matter are the services (Xbox LIVE, OS features, cloud integration, etc.), ease of development (SDK, tools, profiling, simple multi-platform compiling, etc.), business models/plans (freemium, retail, online, streamable, etc.), and community - the entire 'ecosystem'... all of which MS has a huge lead and proven record for over Sony.

Hint: 20... 5T,8T - 4G, 6G ...13

Multiple posts by others trying to discover what the hint means:

so the 20 and 13... those have to be 2013 right?
and those 4GB. i believe it's CPU, that would be too much RAM

Too much ram, eh? We'll see how that plays out...

I can assure everyone here - Microsoft has no intention of orphaning the 360 the way we had to abandon Xbox 1. We're intending families to keep/use their 360's even after they buy into the next gen.

We'll continue supporting 360 in all kinds of ways even after the next gen launch... so anyone who doesn't want to dive directly into next gen will have plenty of content to keep them busy until they do make the plunge.

That said, the new system will rock your world... I can't wait for us to unleash the plan to our customers... because it's finally a plan I think only Microsoft is positioned to deliver. We're finally bringing together ALL of our strengths, and making something that no one else could really truly compete with... I'm sure Sony's next machine will be great, and I'm sure Nintendo's WiiU will have some great games - but I know that neither of them are positioned to truly compete with what we've got on the horizon... it's really, really exciting. I was enthused for our 360 launch, and I was *REALLY* excited about the potential Kinect unleashed to the world of electronics, but this is by far the most excited I've ever been for any of our products, and I've been working at MS for nearly 12 years now.

More hints on the hint:

Yes... 6G 8T - related... 4G 5T related
the 4/5 and 6/8 refer to something with regards to specs

Speculation:

So Two SKUs a 5 Tuners 4 Gig of RAM and 8 Tuners 6 Gig of ram

PS4 with essentially the same performance without the tuners but with a Google TV HDMI pass-thru and Feature set? Something like NASNE to provide DVR features for Sony.

Both platforms are targeting the living room and XTV; ATSC 2.0 and hbbTV DVB as well as Cable custom solutions built on ATSC-DVB Software stacks and Tru2Way/RVU.

 

[Globox_82]

More hints on the hint:

Yes... 6G 8T - related... 4G 5T related
the 4/5 and 6/8 refer to something with regards to specs

Speculation:

So Two SKUs a 5 Tuners 4 Gig of RAM and 8 Tuners 6 Gig of ram

PS4 with essentially the same performance without the tuners but with a Google TV HDMI pass-thru and Feature set? Something like NASNE to provide DVR features for Sony.

Both platforms are targeting the living room and XTV; ATSC 2.0 and hbbTV DVB as well as Cable custom solutions built on ATSC-DVB Software stacks and Tru2Way/RVU.

awesome find. what r tuners? and why would ms have 2 different spec skus?

 

[Canis lupus]

How will things be with BC? i'm buying another 360 today, this late in the gen yes.

 

[MaLDo]

Same game with same assets, textures, etc runing at 1080p requires double gpu horsepower than runing a 720p. So, the two sku thing does not increase development costs. You can buy a normal console to play game A at 720p30 and less demanding game B at 1080p30 or a pro console to play game A at 1080p30 or game B at 1080p60. Double performance but identical games.

 

[derFeef]

I saw this and now I want the new Xbox to be as compact (in heigth). The cooling is really smart.

http://www.techpowerup.com/173111/AMD-Shows-Off-Silent-A10-5700-System.html

 

[jeff_rigby]

awesome find. what r tuners? and why would ms have 2 different spec skus?

Edit: I didn't put together that the "T" stood for tuner until I read the Sony NASNE information.

There have been rumors of Microsoft developing a Game Console/Set Top Box for cable companies. To support the coming XTV on Cable requires access to scrambled cable channels (Tuner) and the ability to descramble (Cable card). Cable box DVRs have multiple tuners 4-6. Over The Air ATSC 2.0 requires a tuner(s) also but no cable card.

Tru2Way cablebox DVRs support RVU which both the Xbox 360 and PS3 can use.

It's all about an easy to use one box solution for the living room that also serves handhelds. Windows 8 ecosystem with the Xbox 720 the living room server to everything in the home.

Sony was counting on the US AllVID proposal which would be a 6 tuner/cablecard device connected to the home network and RVU serving to everything in the home. It looks like cable companies deliberately stalled that proposal. Microsoft with the Xbox 720 would be working with Cable companies while Sony is having to provide ALLVID like ability in a separate device (NASNE).

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

I'm just going to go ahead and "crack" this whole "5T thing"... It actually stands for 5 Tangerines that will be bundled with the system at launch. If anyone doubts me, I can point you to a series of unrelated press releases I have randomly circled letters on spelling "tangerines" and then stuffed into an abandoned mail box on the outskirts of town.

 

[Teletraan1]

I have a feeling that both console manufacturers are going to settling on an amount of VRAM that is exactly the same and then have some other amount of ram to run OS and everything else. Same memory config as a PC. I don't see why they have to be a unified ram architecture. If you can have 2Gb of GDDR5 and 2-4 Gb of DDR3 depending on how much crap they want running while gaming. That should make multiplatform development between the 2 easy enough. Motherboard complexity will go up with a split but it cant be more expensive than 4Gb of GDDR4/5 over the long haul. Or as shitty as going with a large amount of lower speed ram.

I think the only reason the split vs unified was an issue this gen was because they could allocate more for video on 360 than they could on PS3 without a lot of hassle. If they collude which they should for devs sakes then that issue goes away and its cheaper to manufacture. 2Gb of vram in a GTX660-680 seems to be more than sufficient for 1080p.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I have a feeling that both console manufacturers are going to settling on an amount of VRAM that is exactly the same and then have some other amount of ram to run OS and everything else. Same memory config as a PC. I don't see why they have to be a unified ram architecture. If you can have 2Gb of GDDR5 and 2-4 Gb of DDR3 depending on how much crap they want running while gaming. That should make multiplatform development between the 2 easy enough. Motherboard complexity will go up with a split but it cant be more expensive than 4Gb of GDDR4/5 over the long haul. Or as shitty as going with a large amount of lower speed ram.

I think the only reason the split vs unified was an issue this gen was because they could allocate more for video on 360 than they could on PS3 without a lot of hassle. If they collude which they should for devs sakes then that issue goes away and its cheaper to manufacture. 2Gb of vram in a GTX660-680 seems to be more than sufficient for 1080p.

You missed a few NeoGAF threads that have been finding information on Next generation.

GDDR5 is too hot and expensive to be used by game consoles. Samsung (from insiders) has stopped development work on GDDR5 (no new smaller node sizes or features). This means that GDDR5 will increase in price over time compared to DDR4 which will decrease in price. DDR4 is designed to be stacked (Low power) and while slower in standard configurations compared to GDDR5 (GDDR5 is 3X faster), in 3D stacked ultra wide configurations DDR4 will be more than 2X faster than GDDR5, cheaper and use less power both in Drive current from inside a SoC and running current.

Samsung-Micron-IBM are producing a Hybrid Memory Cube (HMC) using 3D stacked DDR3 and it has a theoretical transfer speed of 1 Tb/sec but is limited by the bottom Memory interface. I'm sure you see, like Samsung, that GDDR5 will rapidly become obsolete.

Fusion CPU-GPU SoCs with unified memory are the Future and Intel announced that future PC chipsets would not use plug in memory modules, Memory would be attached directly to the CPU-GPU using TSVs (assumption is that it will be wide I/O LP-DDR3 or DDR4 stacked 2.5D or 3D).

Speculation and leaks support the Xbox 720 and PS4 will be AMD CPU-GPU full HSA Fusion Custom 2014 SoC designs manufactured early 2013 for release late 2013 or early 2014. They will use DDR4 stacked memory either 2.5D side by side or 3D. Game Consoles will be slightly ahead of PCs in using DDR4 stacked memory.

 

[iamshadowlark]

GDDR5 is neither too hot nor too expensive to put into consoles. I really don't know where this guy gets his info.

 

[subversus]

MS counting on services is a good move for US market but they won't be able to provide the same kind of services WW. It will be just another gaming box for Europe.

 

[Chû Totoro]

It will be just another gaming box for Europe.

Sadly this is so true

Also I know that I'm only jumping now on your little Xbox 720 hype train but my question is pretty simple : Xbox 720 more or less than 500$ ?

I don't know the one I'll choose between PS4 and Xbox 720 so the 500$ price tag could let me buy both (not day 1 for both obviously but still).

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Also I know that I'm only jumping now on your little Xbox 720 hype train but my question is pretty simple : Xbox 720 more or less than 500$ ?

It will definitely be available for less.

 

[Osiris]

Samsung (from insiders) has stopped development work on GDDR5 (no new smaller node sizes or features).

This is why sometimes it's very hard to take anything you write seriously, you have stated as fact something that was rumoured back in May by an anonymous source, reported as a rumour, but has not been confirmed by insiders at all since that initial claim.

Jumping from rumour to "confirmed fact" without any basis makes just about everything you write suspect.

 

[1-D_FTW]

So the rumor is next-gen cable card support? That would be wise and would get me there day one (as long as it could go into a reasonable stand-by mode when not gaming). DVR mode can't be pulling 100+ watts.

 

[jeff_rigby]

This is why sometimes it's very hard to take anything you write seriously, you have stated as fact something that was rumoured back in May by an anonymous source, reported as a rumour, but has not been confirmed by insiders at all since that initial claim.

Jumping from rumour to "confirmed fact" without any basis makes just about everything you write suspect.

True, but you must really have a problem with 90% of the News Media. I try not to post as fact rumors but in this case it all fits too well. DDR4 has many of the same features as GDDR5 BUT it can be stacked because it's low power. TSVs allow for easy stacking of like on like memory which can support wide I/O RAM that will perform better than GDDR5. This is the future is it not?

 

[iamshadowlark]

True, but you must really have a problem with 90% of the News Media. I try not to post as fact rumors but in this case it all fits too well. DDR4 is essentially low power GDDR5 that can be stacked. TSVs allow for easy stacking of like on like memory which can support wide I/O RAM that will perform better than GDDR5. This is the future is it not?

Fits well with what? Almost nothing you say is backed up significantly.


GDDR6 is well underway, stacking isn't just gonna phase out the need for high performance memory.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Fits well with what? Almost nothing you say is backed up significantly.

GDDR6 is well underway, stacking isn't just gonna phase out the need for high performance memory.

Where are you getting the GDDR6 information? I can only find ONE FLUFF source with no meat and everyone is copying that one source.

Stacking is one way to get high performance memory.

 

[brotkasten]

True, but you must really have a problem with 90% of the News Media. I try not to post as fact rumors but in this case it all fits too well.

I bet you thought the same about HDMI-Passthrough in the new PlayStation 3. I'm still waiting for that one.

Speculating is all good and fun, but it should be within reason.

Screaming "IT ALL MAKES SENSE" like a mad man, while posting a huge wall of text to justify your believes, even though sometime it's just based on even more speculation and terrible sources like the digitimes, doesn't mean you're right. What's worse is that you make it look like you know what you're talking about, even though you're just poking around and speculating like most of the people here. And then there are times, when you start with reasonable points and jump to conclusions like a bunny on LSD.

Again, speculating is cool and fun, but arguments like "it all fits too well" should never be part of it.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Where are you getting the GDDR6 information? I can only find ONE FLUFF source with no meat and everyone is copying that one source.

Stacking is one way to get high performance memory.

You really trying to call someone a "fluff" source? Oh and Valich comes from the same background Charlie comes from and they have a lot of the same sources.

GDDR6 is probably well into delvelopment, it's really not that big a reach.

 

[Teletraan1]

I just think they would be better served going with nothing exotic this time around. Something that is pretty standard right now would have a lower cost to start with but I don't know how far they can go with future cost reductions or how expensive that gets when that is no longer the "standard" if they decided to drag out the next generation as long as this one. Standardized is also readily available compared to a new technology that doesn't exist in any consumer product currently. Seems to me that they are just trading upfront costs for down the road costs with very little appreciable benefit for the suggested target spec.

 

[jeff_rigby]

You really trying to call someone a "fluff" source? Oh and Valich comes from the same background Charlie comes from and they have a lot of the same sources.

GDDR6 is probably well into delvelopment, it's really not that big a reach.

Fluff because there was no information in it about what GDDR6 is going to be. Going back to my original statement that GDDR5 will not be used in consoles because it will increase in price over time and DDR4 will decrease, you disagree and come up with GDDR6. If the PS4 is designed with GDDR5 in mind it will most likely not be able to use GDDR6 and if your cite is correct GDDR5 will be discontinued over time and become more expensive. Any way you look at it I'm correct if your GDDR6 cite is correct. I question the accuracy of GDDR6 coming which would support your argument not mine.

I truly deserve to be jumped on for taking my speculation so seriously about the PS3 4K chassis. To my mind either Sony did a total redesign now or they are probably NOT going to refresh the PS3 in 2 years and that means a pretty fast death for the PS3 as a separate console within 3 years (not able to be sold in California in 2 years). I DID NOT EXPECT THAT.

The choice is so drastic it did not make sense UNLESS the PS4 is going to be cheaper than we expect and have PS3 backward compatibility and I found that unlikely (the cheap part). So either Sony was going to do a drastic redesign now which would support the Digitimes PS4 rumor as a redesigned PS3 or nothing as supported by the IBM Linkedin cite. The IBM Linkedin cite had no work on a 32nm Cell but work on a Xbox 360 international project at 32nm which could include Cell work (the IBM employee responsibility was for the Cache arrays not the entire CPU so it could support a 1PPU3SPU CPU package for the Xbox 360).

The Xbox 360 refresh @32nm is going to make the Xbox 360 much cheaper to make with support for 1080P and if the Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint is accurate, with a HDMI Pass-thru with overlay. Add Kinect to the mix and I don't see how the PS3 can compete with the Xbox 360. That makes Sony's decision on the PS3 4K design hard to understand.

 

[eso76]

i doubt they're going with 2 sku's.

But maybe they could make things work in a way that if you buy 4 consoles and link them together you can run games in 4k

 

[specialguy]

You really trying to call someone a "fluff" source? Oh and Valich comes from the same background Charlie comes from and they have a lot of the same sources.

In what world is that a positive? By the time next gen hits the amount of stuff Charlie will be wrong on will fill a phone book. All his Oban stuff for example, MASSIVELy stretches credibility at best (and he's already been proved wrong when he said it was 99.99% not an X86 in Durango)

But I'm not saying GDDR6 isn't coming. Just found your statement kind of funny. But from what I know Theo is not as crazy as Charlie.

 

[1-D_FTW]

In what world is that a positive? By the time next gen hits the amount of stuff Charlie will be wrong on will fill a phone book. All his Oban stuff for example, MASSIVELy stretches credibility at best (and he's already been proved wrong when he said it was 9.99% not an X86 in Durango)

But I'm not saying GDDR6 isn't coming. Just found your statement kind of funny. But from what I know Theo is not as crazy as Charlie.

Agree. It really is the ultimate backfire comparison. Because Charlie induces cringes from sane people.

 

[CadetMahoney]

I saw this and now I want the new Xbox to be as compact (in heigth). The cooling is really smart.

http://www.techpowerup.com/173111/AMD-Shows-Off-Silent-A10-5700-System.html

I like the cooling concept, console manufacturers would probably not want to pay royalties to use the idea though.

I have a feeling that both console manufacturers are going to settling on an amount of VRAM that is exactly the same. . . That should make multiplatform development between the 2 easy enough.

I don't want that.

I don't want consoles to be on parity and used as port machines for third parties. Just the same thing as this gen, that's not remotely interesting. Neither should collude with each other to achieve parity. They should be trying to 1-up each other.

 

[milsorgen]

It would make sense if MS kept XBLA games as 360, rather then introducing Xbox3 arcade games. So future XBLA game would work on both old and new Xboxes. It would allow MS to continue to support the 360 with new content, without the cost of full retail game development.

If they did that, a disc-less, online only Xbox would make sense, as you'd have access to the the non-gaming partner services, XBLA and GoD.

Im on a Xbox/chatpad so forgive lack od details in this post (IE needs tabs). But IIRC XBLA titles are coded similiar to Java. So the games themselves should run on anything with a proper framework with no recompiles. So aside from system requirements XBLA titles should run on either platform fairly easily, still I doubt MS wants to see many 360/Next compatible games. theyll want to show case the new systems power/features.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Im on a Xbox/chatpad so forgive lack od details in this post (IE needs tabs). But IIRC XBLA titles are coded similiar to Java. So the games themselves should run on anything with a proper framework with no recompiles. So aside from system requirements XBLA titles should run on either platform fairly easily, still I doubt MS wants to see many 360/Next compatible games. theyll want to show case the new systems power/features.

Errr. no.

You are talking about Live Indie Games. Those are written in C#. XBLA not necessarily.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Fluff because there was no information in it about what GDDR6 is going to be. Going back to my original statement that GDDR5 will not be used in consoles because it will increase in price over time and DDR4 will decrease, you disagree and come up with GDDR6. If the PS4 is designed with GDDR5 in mind it will most likely not be able to use GDDR6 and if your cite is correct GDDR5 will be discontinued over time and become more expensive. Any way you look at it I'm correct if your GDDR6 cite is correct. I question the accuracy of GDDR6 coming which would support your argument not mine.

Well of course nobody outside of Jedec or whoever knows anything concrete, or better yet they won't divulge anything. Same situation would apply with DDR4 before it was announced.

I really don't see where the hell you could say you are correct either way. You seem to live in some alternate world.


You claimed stacked DDR4 is "the future" , when I said bullshit and pointed that GDDR6 is more than likely well under development. This has nothing to do with your original bullshit statement that "GDDR5 is too hot and too expensive for console". And what credible source leads you to believe Samsung is done with GDDR5?

As far as I can tell, all of your claims are wrong and mis-guided.

In what world is that a positive? By the time next gen hits the amount of stuff Charlie will be wrong on will fill a phone book. All his Oban stuff for example, MASSIVELy stretches credibility at best (and he's already been proved wrong when he said it was 99.99% not an X86 in Durango)

But I'm not saying GDDR6 isn't coming. Just found your statement kind of funny. But from what I know Theo is not as crazy as Charlie.

I really don't know of the Charlie guy or his credibility but rigby seems to swear by him. I was just pointing out their semi-common background.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Well of course nobody outside of Jedec or whoever knows anything concrete, or better yet they won't divulge anything. Same situation would apply with DDR4 before it was announced.

I really don't see where the hell you could say you are correct either way. You seem to live in some alternate world.

You claimed stacked DDR4 is "the future" , when I said bullshit and pointed that GDDR6 is more than likely well under development. This has nothing to do with your original bullshit statement that "GDDR5 is too hot and too expensive for console". And what credible source leads you to believe Samsung is done with GDDR5?

As far as I can tell, all of your claims are wrong and mis-guided.

I really don't know of the Charlie guy or his credibility but rigby seems to swear by him. I was just pointing out their semi-common background.

What we'll have available in 2014 is a new way to generate massive memory bandwidth, as well as new die shrinks for processing. It's not just about raw performance, it about performance per watt, TDP, and long-term cost scalability. Stuff like stacked DDR4 will see major cost reductions throughout the generation, etc.

The other side of this is the extra features and services. Much like the aforementioned tech, we are also seeing a confluence on that side of things. We are seeing a lot of movement on display tech (not only 4K, but HMDs), 2nd screen features, and the biggest change to television media in history. There is finally some movement on IPTV packaging. These sort of things are going to take a while to settle out. And while they don't necessarily need to be in place for launch, the console manufactures need to at least have a relatively clear idea what sort of I/O, OS framework, and OS footprint will be necessarily to incorporate these services.

Much like the confluence of HW, this confluence of services is all pointing to 2014 as a solid time to launch a forward-looking system that will be able to utilize such features over the long haul. Consoles are no longer a sprint ... they are a marathon of features.

Very very good post and fits with what I have been reading!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42680334&postcount=4523

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/09/07/intel-to-do-away-with-dram-in-pcs/

 

[fritolay]

So will the next XBOX be able to function as a receiver for Direct TV?

 

[PigSpeakers]

PigSpeakers Rumor: New Xbox will suck ya orf real good like.