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Halo |OT10| The Calm Before The Storm
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Poker Face
Member
Bungie remakes blood gulch, ascension, and sanctuary. 343 makes a grifball court.
lol.
I still think forge doesn't look very good. The shadows help it's overall staleness, but from what I just watched the forge pieces are going to make forge suffer the same way it did in reach. every thing will look the same.
:/
lol.
I still think forge doesn't look very good. The shadows help it's overall staleness, but from what I just watched the forge pieces are going to make forge suffer the same way it did in reach. every thing will look the same.
:/
It's not flat though, and doesn't seem that big. Honestly even something like the Quarry on Forge World where Asylum is build isn't flat enough. I guess 343 wants the Forge maps to look 'realistic' so they make add a bunch of hills but that only hinders Forgers in creating maps.
Problem with this is that it requires more objects which is more taxing on the engine and if there's no flat natural terrain Forge pieces it will make the map look really bland like in Reach where it's just gray on gray.
Doesn't 343 get credit for not making Paradiso?
nillapuddin
Member
Glad there's no covenant forge map 
On mobile, haven't seem vid yet, but good summary fyre, you the man
On mobile, haven't seem vid yet, but good summary fyre, you the man
You could do that in Forge World as well, but that caused huge frame rate issues. Both of the maps I made suffered from it because I used too much Forge geometry.
My #1 wish for Halo 4's Forge was a set of objects to shape terrain with. Think big versions of Halo 2's golf flag, upside down: a rounded object painted to look like grass. Make 5-6 different sized and shaped versions of those, and we can form the terrain rather than use what we get in the default map or have to make a totally flat map based on giant wall pieces (Forge World).
I'm still hoping that there's a space I missed, or those kind of objects are included. I just wanna dream up a map and build it, not shoehorn it into a map that's already detailed.
Snow and Covenant forge maps are basically all that's left.
We've had
- Human (Foundry, Erosion)
- Steelrunner (Tempest, Forge World, Ravine)
- Stonerunner (Sandbox)
- Space / Rock (Impact)
So that leaves Snow and Covenant as Halo motifs that haven't shown up as Forge palettes.
Yeah, I'm not quite sure why they seem so allergic to make just a big flat spot on a Forge environ somewhere.
There's not enough space.
I assume it's possible, but I'd see most people raising a big fuss if it counted as one of the maps in the packs. A free DLC? Maybe.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Yeah. The only really cool parts I saw where ideas began popping into my head was the chasm on Ravine. Building a map that is all walkways and jumps would be interesting there. Impact might be where I mess around though.
All of those maps you listed were broken in many ways.
And 343 probably have forge maps built in but listened to the community and aren't putting them in matchmaking on launch day.
Game. Blouses.
Didn't Shishka make Paradiso? And doesn't Shishka work at 343 now? lol
Available now at Amazon.
If you pre-ordered it at GameStop. You have to wait until October 18th.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I really hope IGN isnt leaving that map to show last - that would be annoying.
Hopefully the Spanish leaker puts it out there.
If they do we will know what it is already due to leaks inbound.
Any new Forge canvases need to be free (and required) DLC. It sucks when the Forge userbase gets split, such as with Halo 3 (Sandbox remaining paid DLC) and Reach (Anniversary disc). If they decide to give us Super Forge World with a bunch of new features, it needs to be able to be used by the entire matchmaking population.
Vire
Member
Sure there is, did you see that 4v4 map 343 made? Looks like there's considerably more room to use even past that.
I also didn't see any framerate drops during the gameplay of that map.
*shrug*
Still Erosion looks pretty useless as a Forge map, I'm not sure where you could really create something besides over the lake and even then it would be tiny.
The only good thing is the Griffball play space could easily be used as a starting point for Symmetrical 4 v 4 maps.
I watched the Gamespot video on mute during a meeting. So I had to look away now and then. But what I saw really bummed me out.
All I want in a Forge map is a big open space to build a map on. Basically a space like this:
God damn, the amount of bad maps made on that map and then implemented into matchmaking.
bobs...onGaf
Member
See - I hope the developer base variant of each forge world map makes it in simply because they wont feel like forge maps as all the other forge maps would.
The geometry and forge pieces will have been designed specifically for base variants (I would assume?) - and so the base forge variant would be good enough to be a unique map (in my mind)
I agree - but personally hope this is all the love Forge gets. If they do make a map down the line that has a sweet flat section perfect for forging that would be great - but I dont really want it too badly. A Sandbox remake complete with Crypt and Skybox would probably be perfect for this kind of thing. I hated that map in Halo 3 though - such an ugly aesthetic and the quality of maps that the community put out was horrible.
Hydranockz
Member
I dunno, the scale felt really weird. Like, we know the structure on Impact is rather large but when the monitor first panned around it, the doors looked like holes you could barely crouch under.
The Infection footage kind of cemented that idea because I felt as though that place was massive.
Having said that, there are SOOOO many different places to put your map! The cavern, the dusty pit, the sleek griffball court, the forerunner structre, the green hills, the fucking cliffs, the moonbase, the asteroid, in the middle of space....
Soooo much more variety will really give what would be similar maps a very different feel.
The Infection footage kind of cemented that idea because I felt as though that place was massive.
Having said that, there are SOOOO many different places to put your map! The cavern, the dusty pit, the sleek griffball court, the forerunner structre, the green hills, the fucking cliffs, the moonbase, the asteroid, in the middle of space....
Soooo much more variety will really give what would be similar maps a very different feel.
Can't argue with that.
I assume we didn't get a Covenant theme because we aren't going to be spending any serious time with Covenant structures in the campaign.
Forget matchmaking for a sec. I want to build custom BTB maps.
Like the look of them but for the love of god stop putting massive buildings/structures on Forge maps! Leave them blank and let Forgers choose from loads of prefab items.
Also, they keep making Forge maps with bumpy bits all over the place. It basically forces Forgers to map floating maps since developers never give them enough flat and open areas.
Also, any chance of them uploading the prefab items to sketchup or something? Would be nice to see what we are working with,
I have to admit that I had more fun on Sandbox maps than most forgeworld maps.
Random story:
I was driving yesterday on the interstate to get into the city for class, and on my right was a truck. I noticed a sticker on the side of his back windows and it was the Noble team icon.
I immediately said aloud in my car to myself, "That guy is BAD ASS!", and followed that up with at least 7 Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOOOH's...
I have a problem. ; ;
I was driving yesterday on the interstate to get into the city for class, and on my right was a truck. I noticed a sticker on the side of his back windows and it was the Noble team icon.
I immediately said aloud in my car to myself, "That guy is BAD ASS!", and followed that up with at least 7 Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOOOH's...
I have a problem. ; ;
So did I. But I think that's because the I found the underlying game to be a lot more fun. So even subpar maps could play well because the game played well. I've played some great custom maps in Reach and ended the game very frustrated, because it was still Reach.
Hydranockz
Member
Where do we build the Derby maps guys?
Steelyuhas
Member
I think it's nice that there is 3 distinct environments (although Ravine looks stale as shit), but the geometry on each environment is lacking mild, flat designs, which like Forge World is going to lead to a lot of people making forge maps in the sky, which not only makes them ugly as sin because they are entirely forge pieces, but also makes maps that are more difficult to get solid performance out of.
While I use Halo 1 as my example game, I don't think it was perfect and there are certainly some changes that could improve it. That said, on to your post...
I don't think you can really compare the two skills like that. Their importance varied depending on the situation; the environment of Halo CE (local LANs primarily) meant that any group of players usually had vastly disparate skill sets. In those types of situations, not only did you not see much teamwork, there was usually one or two individuals who steamrolled everyone else just through blunt individual skill. This made up the bulk of people's experience with Halo 1.
Teamwork became vastly more important when you actually got two teams of roughly equivalent skill or at least players who were familiar with what they could or couldn't do. The depth of viable strategy was greatly increased by the weapon and power spawning syste, the player respawn system and the utility weapon. Simply put, there were more viable options in any given situation that could be pulled off through a combination of individual ability and teamwork.
You also began to see players find success by being really good either through individual ability or their ability to work off their teammates. In later Halo games, you will only find success through your teammates.
I can't speak for all of the old-schoold elite players, but I am still friends with one of the players from that first National Championship (which didnt' really feature the best at the time, but the best they could find) you're referring to. He stopped playing Halo because it was a completely different game that he didn't enjoy, not one he couldn't be good at.
The term "adapt" is thrown around a lot. The irony is that the reason a lot of players left was because it was too easy to adapt, there wasn't as much "adapting" required, and the skill gap was narrowed.
Because the differential between them and teams below them got narrower. A shallower skill gap benefits lower-skilled players much more than it does higher skilled players. Especially when you reduce something like the shooting skill, which everything else hinges on. Players who used to have a large advantage because they had great dexterity and could react and think quickly suddenly saw all those advantages nullified to a great extent.
The difference between Halo CE and Halo 2 was massive. The way Halo was played changed forever, and a lot of the great CE players simply didn't enjoy the changes.
I agree that teamplay and individual play are different skillsets, to a point; there is some obvious overlap in the skillsets. "Teamwork" is not something that you need to force in a team-based game, like Halo. It's something that will always be present, and its depth will grow when you allow for different playstyles to find success.
Tying this back to your original argument, it seems we agree... to a point. Individual skill is MORE important in Halo than in Halo 2. Where we seem to diverge is that you are suggesting that higher individual skill will necessarily lead to higher team skill... and I'm suggesting that there's not really a correlation (at least in the first game). I will ABSOLUTELY agree that in Halo 2 and 3, teams with greater-skilled players dominated, and I will agree that in the early days of Reach, wins were more unpredictable because there WAS a greater 'random' factor - one that MLG removed over time, leading to fewer upsets and more predictable outcomes. But what I don't see is a greater 'depth' in Halo gameplay that comes from individual skill - what I see is that individual skill level was far more important than the ability to work together as a team. To me... that's LESS depth.
Wow, I didn't expect this to be that long. And now I'm late for a meeting.
My original point was that a game that allows an individual to be a deadly, effective force has more potential for deep teamwork and strategy than one that doesn't. The reason being is that it allows players to seperate themselves from their teammates, cover more of the map and attack from unexpected angles and have a realistic shot of success.
However, basic strategy like Teamshot is going to be much more prevalent in a game that restricts the individual and certainly much more prolific. My question would be; is that better? Is it better to have the outcome of the game rely so much on the most primitive form of teamwork, especially when its due to the fact that its literally forced on players?
Look at how team strategy has evolved. It started in Halo 1 as an incredibly dynamic thing, where teams would prioritze powerups and choose how to allocate their resources and move around maps. Individual players would each be working on a different objective and playing off their teammates.
Halo 2 moved to a static-setup from of strategy, where an initial coordinated rush was followed by attempting to hold a ceratin power position. Individual players who struck out on their own would find they couldn't realisitically take on more than one enemy at a time, and quickly found that sticking to one area with teammates was the best way to succeed.
Halo 3, team strategy resembled Halo 2's, but more like a swarm of zerglings, where success primarily came from having more players shooting at the same thing.
All the strategies of Halo 2 and Halo 3 were perfectly viable in Halo 1 as well, but there were also so many more strategies that could work. It only appears that teamwork was less important because it was less in-your face. It's easy to look at a team all sticking together and say, "that's teamwork." In reality, I see greater depth in a team that has a couple of players sticking together directly attacking enemy positions, another across the map contesting a power weapon and another sneaking in for a flank.
Decreasing the importance individual ability and saying it increases teamwork is like saying increasing the size of the basketball hoop will increase teamwork.
Best buy didn't get any in either. Amazon sold out :/. I had one ordered but cancelled it. I figured I would just pick one up when I got dishonored. :/
The Librarian
Banned
You're more of a big sweetie to me.
Glad to see you enjoying it a lot more.
Hydranockz
Member
I definitely agree. While the hills and natural formations are reat for beginner level stuff (Erosion caters to these players well) I definitely think having the superflat area on Ravine being the grey Forerunner structure is a bit silly. True, players need not spend wall piees making a floor but that is only a temporary fix As Over said, different floors would be great.
Tha Robbertster
Member
I was watching a Dexter episode from 2009 and at one place, there was an entire wall filled with ODST posters. I always love it when I see Halo appear in a TV show or something similar.
You can create a smooth surface in the air can't you? Build it above the map?
1) Requires all surfaces to be flat.
2) Requies all surfaces to be Forge objects, impacting budget/frame rate.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Everywhere?
1 more map left.
Hydranockz
Member
Unless you want to be tied down to the already grey Ravine section.
Would rather have the option to make land maps but not have all that excess clutter to hinder performance.
Major Williams
Member
Good news everyone, I was able to preorder from Walmart last night. They reopened their preorder for the limited edition. It's only kind of lame that has to be shipped to my house though.
Hydranockz
Member
I am guessing Covie maps will have their own DLC pack dedicated to them. Maybe 3 MP maps and a free Covie canvas for Forge?
Poker Face
Member
Human:
Adrift
Longbow
Exile
Complex
Abandon
Forerunner:
Haven
Solace
Ragnarok
Meltdown
Guessing it's forerunner to balance it out as 5 UNSC, and 5 forerunner
Zeouterlimits
Member
Perhaps the map packs are themed?
#CovieWinterWonderland
#FloodMapPackThatTotallyWontHaveMapLikeIsolationOrBackwash
Beaten by Hydranockz. Bawls.
Would prefer to pick it up at Midnight I'm guessing?
NobleGundam
Banned
Lol awesome random moments like these always require a camera to capture.
I was on the freeway and my bro spotted this truck with decals that were dark blue and halo ring / halo styled fonts. The name said "Halo Trucking Co.". My jaw dropped and I tried to get my phone, but by then it was too late as we were heading into the exit... :'( NPH Moment "Did You See The Size of That Unicorn!?"
bobs...onGaf
Member
Can anyone recommend me a good monitor - I really need to upgrade - I have been using this default Dell monitor for a while now - I think its 17 inches lol. Would be nice if it was actually widescreen though - for some reason the fact it seems so square is bugging me all of a sudden.
Whats generally a nice size for gaming? I actually dont want to get something too big as its going to be my PC monitor and I dont want to have something huge taking up too much space.
Whats generally a nice size for gaming? I actually dont want to get something too big as its going to be my PC monitor and I dont want to have something huge taking up too much space.
I really hope performance issues are hammered out with this version of Forge. I'm not seeing a lot of really good, flat, open spaces for people to really get creative with. Having to work with or around existing geometry is a huge problem with creating even small and midsize maps, and pretty much killed the possibility of (good) BTB Forge maps that didn't chug. Hell, Kynan mentions how the bottom of the Impact building would make a good 1v1 map because it's small and circular and has a lower level, but there's a giant damn rock in the way that every map there would have to contend with. I dunno. Performance is pretty much the make or break thing for me at this point, floating maps could be truly viable and loosen up the crazy tight restrictions on creativity they currently have.