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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Amazon Tony on CAG said:
Cheapy and I talk pretty often, he'd do me the courtesy of dropping me an email, phone call, PM, postcard, or some such contact before banning me.

I did so completely transparently as an Amazon employee and specifically noted "if this isn't cool I'll just delete the thread".

What do you think CAG's response would be to that post?

Cheers,
Tony
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Not our concern really, but I am interested in seeing what CAG will do about this issue.
 
V

VeryGooster

Banned
JEsbf.png


:lol
 
Boss Man

Boss Man

Member
Victrix said:
Because they can be trusted in aggregate.
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Can they? It seems to me that most outlets fall in line with each other, and 'score' games based more on the hype surrounded by them than anything else. I'm not saying that most reviews are paid for, but I actually do believe that most reviews come with an unacceptable amount of bias (either from falling in line, friends in the industry, free stuff, ads, whatever). "Games journalism" as a whole is extremely unprofessional, unreliable, and harmful because effects the actual development of games as well.

The whole thing needs to be re-evaluated. I think that the notion that it should be acceptable for critics to advertise for prizes is not a corner-case or something that only applies to certain reviewers. It's a mindset that pervades the whole industry and is the basis for a lot of other problems as well.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Coxy said:
ok back in for one more. You mean her friend at....Square Enix

IPNyV.png


http://uk.linkedin.com/in/korinaabbott

Thank you Korina I loves you!
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A Bit Of Perspective by John Walker
And now, thanks to the magic of the Streisand Effect, which Wainwright undoubtedly brought down on herself, means things have gotten a touch out of hand. People are now digging through her trash, attempting to expose every possible scrap of poor behaviour or possibly dubious action. Silly things she’s done, like leaving Square Enix listed as an employer on a public page, and apparently denying that she reviews Square Enix games while she reviews many of them, get highlighted and declared across Twitter as evidence that she’s a flagrant criminal – rather than someone who sometimes does silly things. I suspect what Wainwright actually did for Square was write a mock review of one of their games, which she has described as being a consultant. I’m not sure why a rookie games journalist would be a consultant on a game, and I very much doubt that happened. But a little CV tweak has now meant the rope is getting pulled tighter.
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I guess John Walker just got his answer!
 
K

Kinyou

Member
Vamphuntr said:
It's getting sadder as Detective Gaf is making progress. At least she was quite open (maybe careless?) by posting all of that on the web. I doubt every critic are like her but her case is fairly embarassing. Since her "good friend" work at SE and that she gets some contractual work there, she shouldn't be reviewing any SE game. The fact her twitter was plastered with tomb raider stuff doesn't help her case. She seemed to really want that permanent job at SE, eh?
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That everything is available so openly speaks imho in favor of her (that she deleted some of it doesn't though), and I generally like to think "innocent until proven guilty" so I'd say that there's a good chance that this is just unfortunate coincidence, or just over-eagerness on her part (not realizing how bad this makes her look).

However are those allegations certainly appropriate and she really shouldn't review SE games. Being heavily SE biased would also explain why she reacted so extreme to that short sentence in Florence's original article and didn't just let it pass.
 
J

JazzmanZ

Member
It's a shame really for Lauren, everyone is making her out to be a scapegoat on this and effectively ruined whatever career she had as a journalist internet wise.

No doubt she did some dumb things earlier today, but now everyone is trying to rummage through her garbage and shove it into her face yelling "GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY"

Continue looking for more concrete evidence she's a shrill anyways.
 
F

Foffy

Banned
JazzmanZ said:
It's a shame really for Lauren, everyone is making her out to be a scapegoat on this and effectively ruined whatever career she had as a journalist internet wise.

No doubt she did some dumb things earlier today, but now everyone is trying to rummage through her garbage and shove it into her face yelling "GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY"

Continue looking for more concrete evidence she's a shrill anyways.
Click to expand...

I think we're at a point where it doesn't matter if more information about her surfaces, but it's just amazing how deep this goes. Anything she writes will be tainted with doubt for as long as she writes.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Lancehead said:
I think it's an oversimplification to say reviewers alone are to blame for how we reached this 7-10 scale. Perceptions of gamers of AAA games and their marketing probably had a lot of influence in how reviewers approach review scores, or review scales, to be more appropriate.
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Of course they aren't the only reason. But they do wield the ultimate power since they're handing out the scores. Expectations are completely out of whack because of how often AAA are scored with 9's and 10's. Which leads to 8's being viewed as disappointing or mediocre. It also leads to people being shocked anytime a RE6 or Medal of Honor comes along and receives actual mediocre scores (5 or a 6).

If anything Uncharted 3's reviews scores look much more like you see with movies. It was a still a universally loved game (it averages a 92), but the score range had a 5, several 7's, 8's etc. That's what you'll see with movies that win the Oscar for best picture. Then you look at something like ME2. It has one 75 score while every other score is either a 9 or a 10. That's out of 98 reviewers for the 360 version. And that really isn't uncommon for major AAA games. High review games like that lead to those inflated expectations for other game scores.
 
C

Circle Jerk

Member
JazzmanZ said:
It's a shame really for Lauren, everyone is making her out to be a scapegoat on this and effectively ruined whatever career she had as a journalist internet wise.

No doubt she did some dumb things earlier today, but now everyone is trying to rummage through her garbage and shove it into her face yelling "GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY"

Continue looking for more concrete evidence she's a shrill anyways.
Click to expand...

It's not a fucking shame that she's being called out for this, not at all. No doubt she did some dumb shit earlier today?! It's pretty clear she's been never been someone with any shred of journalistic integrity. A shame is the fact that someone lost their job over calling her, rightfully, out. She doesn't have a future in game journalism now? Good! She shouldn't have had any future the second she started doing "consulting" for game companies while writing about their, or any other publishers, games.
 
R

Relaxed Muscle

Member
JazzmanZ said:
It's a shame really for Lauren, everyone is making her out to be a scapegoat on this and effectively ruined whatever career she had as a journalist internet wise.

No doubt she did some dumb things earlier today, but now everyone is trying to rummage through her garbage and shove it into her face yelling "GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY"

Continue looking for more concrete evidence she's a shrill anyways.
Click to expand...

You know, if she just let it go or just responded on her blog, nothing would have happened to her. She was stupid and acted as a victim, and made Florence loss his job. Well deserved I said
 
J

JimFear

Banned
A couple of years ago i remember vaguely something with Playstation2 and xbox magazine (both magazine owned by future) who gave a 9/10 at the driv3r game while most of the other publication gave a score around 5/10
The rumour was that they had a "secret deal" with atari...


What happened today is not something new...
 
O

Oersted

Member
Toma said:
Refuse from dropping any name, but may I ask whether you had a discussion about that issue with the journalist in question? Would love to hear his comments on that.
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We met each other too rarely and I was busy with my own stuff, so I never called him out on this. You probably gonna ask yourself, how do I know about this relationship? Well, it was pretty hard to be overlooked, with all their pictures holding hands together, kissing and smiling. I never cared so much about this incident, but this thread reminded me of it... and now I feel bad about not calling him out.

In the end of the day, a PR spokesperson and a "journalist" of one of the most highest selling gaming papers in my country slept together. And I doubt this happens rarely.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
JazzmanZ said:
It's a shame really for Lauren, everyone is making her out to be a scapegoat on this and effectively ruined whatever career she had as a journalist internet wise.

No doubt she did some dumb things earlier today, but now everyone is trying to rummage through her garbage and shove it into her face yelling "GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY"

Continue looking for more concrete evidence she's a shrill anyways.
Click to expand...
If this was just about the original article, then I'd agree with the scapegoating comment, but Lauren went out of her way to use our bullshit and outdated libel laws against another journalist - laws which the vast majority of genuine journalists hate because they're backwards and discourage real investigative journalism and criticism. Oh, and then gloated about putting her "law classes to use".
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
Foffy said:
I think we're at a point where it doesn't matter if more information about her surfaces, but it's just amazing how deep this goes. Anything she writes will be tainted with doubt for as long as she writes.
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This is pretty much my opinion on the matter.

This is also why I generally rely on Giant Bomb for my news and reviews. I have faith in their integrity..


Zaph said:
If this was just about the original article, then I'd agree with the scapegoating comment, but Lauren went out of her way to use our bullshit and outdated libel laws against another journalist - laws which the vast majority of genuine journalists hate because they're backwards and discourage real investigative journalism and criticism. Oh, and then gloated about putting her "law classes to use".
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This too.
 
D

Dastardly Jerks

Banned
DangerStepp said:
I have been beating this drum all day.

No one listens.
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So you're telling me there's no way we can detract attention from these no-talent shitlord "Journalists" and direct it at the REAL TALENT behind gaming?

"Video game journalists" are just massive charmless fanboys/girls who lack any ability to do anything worthwhile except create a bookmark in their browser to a Thesaurus and suck the metaphorical dick of the highest paying corporation/brand.

Absolute fucking wastes of space, all of them.
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
Ooh, are we finally getting in to the glorified marketing that some OTs appear to be?

The MGS4 OP getting tangible gifts for his "support" for the game set an awful fucking precedent.
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
ShockingAlberto said:
Ooh, are we finally getting in to the glorified marketing that some OTs appear to be?

The MGS4 OP getting tangible gifts for his "support" for the game set an awful fucking precedent.
Click to expand...

? He got gifts?
 
K

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
JazzmanZ said:
It's a shame really for Lauren, everyone is making her out to be a scapegoat on this and effectively ruined whatever career she had as a journalist internet wise.
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World's smallest violin.
It's good that Wainright's career as a gaming journalist has been hurt by this. It's not okay to build your career on foundations of corruption. Such people should not go on to become prominent or respected in their field. Yes, she's hardly alone in this, but that doesn't make it acceptable.
It's really a shame for Rab.
 
Z

Zombie James

Banned
Still catching up, but this issue of gaming "journalists" being PR mouthpieces or not having problems accepting free gifts from the industry has been an issue for too long. I remember a couple of E3's ago when during Microsoft's press conference they announced they were giving everyone in the crowd free 360's... and it got as big of a reaction as anything that was shown at that conference. For a second I almost forgot that the general public isn't allowed at these things and only journalists and other media types are there. It was an embarrassment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj_Su9SLVp4#t=22m28s (starts around 22:28 if the link doesn't work right).
 
I

iammeiam

Member
For what it's worth, I don't think her SE shilling and conflict of interest has much to do with her friend working there--FFXIII-2 came out in February, her friend didn't start with SE until April of this year.

Which isn't to say Wainright is a paragon of credibility (she seems to be the embodiment of fan-masquerading-as-press) just that I'm not sure all conclusions being drawn are equally valid.
 
D

Dastardly Jerks

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
Ooh, are we finally getting in to the glorified marketing that some OTs appear to be?

The MGS4 OP getting tangible gifts for his "support" for the game set an awful fucking precedent.
Click to expand...

Better make sure nobody beating their chest over getting fringe benefits for being influential ever finds out about Klout. They'll anally prolapse immediately.
 
C

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
J

JDSN

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
Ooh, are we finally getting in to the glorified marketing that some OTs appear to be?

The MGS4 OP getting tangible gifts for his "support" for the game set an awful fucking precedent.
Click to expand...

That thread was a bloated mess of PR since the very first moment, cant believe it was allowed in the first place.
 
C

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
Zombie James said:
Still catching up, but this issue of gaming "journalists" being PR mouthpieces or not having problems accepting free gifts from the industry has been an issue for too long. I remember a couple of E3's ago when during Microsoft's press conference they announced they were giving everyone in the crowd free 360's... and it got as big of a reaction as anything that was shown at that conference. For a second I almost forgot that the general public isn't allowed at these things and only journalists and other media types are there. It was an embarrassment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj_Su9SLVp4#t=22m28s (starts around 22:28 if the link doesn't work right).
Click to expand...

E3 as an industry event is a joke when you think about it.
 
M

MC Safety

Member
Dastardly Jerks said:
So you're telling me there's no way we can detract attention from these no-talent shitlord "Journalists" and direct it at the REAL TALENT behind gaming?

"Video game journalists" are just massive charmless fanboys/girls who lack any ability to do anything worthwhile except create a bookmark in their browser to a Thesaurus and suck the metaphorical dick of the highest paying corporation/brand.

Absolute fucking wastes of space, all of them.
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Wrong.

And someone needs a time-out.
 
G

GQman2121

Banned
Meccanical said:
The funny thing about this is it all could have been avoided.

Easily.
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Right? So many people and the companies they represent are guilty of doing the exact same thing - yet they get away with it. She behaved foolishly for someone in her position - got called out - and then backed the bus right over herself.

Time to find a new line of work. I wouldn't let her anywhere near any projects that I'm working on or planning.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
Zombie James said:
Still catching up, but this issue of gaming "journalists" being PR mouthpieces or not having problems accepting free gifts from the industry has been an issue for too long. I remember a couple of E3's ago when during Microsoft's press conference they announced they were giving everyone in the crowd free 360's... and it got as big of a reaction as anything that was shown at that conference. For a second I almost forgot that the general public isn't allowed at these things and only journalists and other media types are there. It was an embarrassment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj_Su9SLVp4#t=22m28s (starts around 22:28 if the link doesn't work right).
Click to expand...
That was embarrassing but at the same time it felt like something the journalists had no control over. They weren't asking for any 360s

On the flipside, it would be delusional to think that microsoft gave those 360s away just because they're nice people.
 
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