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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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Jburton

Banned
Another damning indictment on games journalism, both the subject matter of the Eurogamer article and the fervorous misogynistic zeal that followed.

Where is the misogynism?

I have honestly seen none in this thread and there is no excuse for it anywhere else, it is wrong and it allows people to focus on something other than the issue, low ethical standards and conflicts of interest ........ none of these are related to gender.
 

Margalis

Banned
I own part of Polygon. So if we're being technical, yes. It is costing me money.

Being technical or being silly?

I own shares in NewsCorp, I guess if we're being technical every trip an IGN guy makes is costing me money!

I also own shares of EA. Someone at EA just got paid $100 to make a texture - if we're being technical I paid for that texture! There goes dinner for the next week!

I'm going to assume Polygon is incorporated in some form, which means it is a separate legal entity, which means no, being technical, money Polygon spends is entirely distinct from your own money. I would also point out that no matter how much Polygon spends on trips or anything else that money isn't coming out of your wallet, and furthermore I highly doubt you provided large personal investment to get the company rolling.

In addition I assume that Polygon pays for trips because it provides better coverage, which means more viewers, which means more advertising revenue, so if you own part of the company that spending is actually making you money.
 

Victrix

*beard*
Where is the misogynism?

I have honestly seen none in this thread and there is no excuse for it anywhere else, it is wrong and it allows people to focus on something other than the issue, low ethical standards and conflicts of interest ........ none of these are related to gender.

Conflating random internet idiots who attack anyone who has done VIDEO GAMING WRONG with the relatively civil (entirely civil?) discussion here does the story a disservice.
 

bozeman

Member
Yeah, pretty much. He only gave us a funny (turned scary) picture.


He's not? This is essentially about Rab Florence / Lauren Wainwright. The Geoff gif is a silly side-dish.


So, I hear what you're saying, there's nothing that constitutes evidence of actual corruption. If she did publish anything related to SE after her gig with them (and she did, she helped them on ff13-2, and later published a blurb on hitman and tomb raider), that's dodgy as all hell imo, but it doesn't mean it was paid PR (although it does read like PR). With that being said, I thought her friend worked for ubisoft? Any existing reference to a friend working for SE as well?

Her friend has a LinkedIn profile that shows she works for Square Enix and used to be employed by Ubisoft.
 
Oh, the irony:

m1dZW.jpg
 

aegies

Member
Being technical or being silly?

I own shares in NewsCorp, I guess if we're being technical every trip an IGN guy makes is costing me money!

I also own shares of EA. Someone at EA just got paid $100 to make a texture - if we're being technical I paid for that texture! There goes dinner for the next week!

I'm going to assume Polygon is incorporated in some form, which means it is a separate legal entity, which means no, being technical, money Polygon spends is entirely distinct from your own money. I would also point out that no matter how much Polygon spends on trips or anything else that money isn't coming out of your wallet, and furthermore I highly doubt you provided large personal investment to get the company rolling.

In addition I assume that Polygon pays for trips because it provides better coverage, which means more viewers, which means more advertising revenue, so if you own part of the company that spending is actually making you money.

Vox isn't a publicly traded company, and I don't own shares in it.
 

JDSN

Banned

To put some context, Rich aparently left gaming journalism entirely because according to him PCGAMER altered game reviews to please publishers.

Funny as hell, since Rich lost his job for exposing shady interactions between editorial and PR, she basically (indirectly?) did to Florece what she hoped PCGAMER wouldnt do to her friend.
 

Zissou

Member
I've spent the last few hours reading throughout all of this, Twitter links, linked articles, and I'm still digesting it all. Some thoughts.

  • A new thread with a proper synopsis of events, links to articles, evidence gathered (links, twitter feeds, etc) and perhaps quotes from some of the best posts from this gargantuan topic is needed. This story is becoming increasingly impenetrable and its too important for that to be allowed to happen.

  • I hope Rob Florence continues to write. The original article was a great piece of work. I hope he speaks more about specific people who have directed abuse towards him and have engaged in unsavoury practices.

  • Eurogamer have damaged their credibility significantly. They were likely trying to be pragmatic - their profit margins may not have survived the UK's viscous libel laws and litigation costs, and it could be that they had literally no choice other than to fold. The act is done however - they sacked/forced into resignation a genuine journalist based on legal threats from a woman that entirely embodies the corruption he was trying to expose.

  • Lauren Wainright invited scrutiny of her entire journalistic career and internet commentary the moment she used her legal training (as she admitted on Twitter) to set into motion a chain of events that caused a fantastic, researched and passionate writer to end his job/have his job ended at Eurogamer. The research that has followed has evidenced her as a self-described journalist who is corrupt to the core - and has produced reviews designed to sell a game on behalf of her Square Enix paymasters. Through her planned misrepresentation and legal bullying, she is the enemy of gamers and antithesis of Rob and the other few examples of legitimate gaming journalism to exist in the industry. Hopefully her career in this field is utterly finished before it even began.

  • The personal attacks are utterly unacceptable and entirely unnecessary. There is more than enough legitimate professional criticism and public evidence to be labelled at her to argue the point. Insults, references to her gender, anything else of this nature is unneeded and completely irrelevant.

  • MCV have lost credibility entirely, and effectively circled their wagons around a corrupt journalist as she was one of their own.

  • I want to know more about this allegation that a NeoGAF OT author was rewarded for their work with gifts from a company associated with the game he advocated.

Quoting so more people can see this.
 

dock

Member
And there is a place for that kind of fluff. Its just sad that traditionally fluff-free sites like Eurogamer can be intimidated by bottom rung fluff writers....

Eurogamer were intimidated by senior staff at MCV, speaking on behalf of Intent media. It sounds as though it was presented as a representation of their outlets and companies rather than a personal matter between the two journalists.

That said, it does seem that Lauren Wainwright instigated this because she was insulted, and the british legal system is rather bent in this area.

What do you think would have been the best reaction that Lauren could have given to the original article? She could have made her involvement with Square Enix more transparent and probably walked away from this without looking too bad. Plenty of 'fans' work in the press.
 
Rab is one of the funniest and most genuinely enthusiastic gamers out there. I can count on about 4 fingers the people whose opinion i'd 100% trust on gaming and he's one of them.

Also obviously was part of giving us the incredible Consolevania :

NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK
NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK
NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWW99J0-cZc

NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW
NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK
NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK

I'm still catching up on the thread this morning, I'm way back on page 19 right now.

I just had to quote and reply to this message.

More people need to see it.

Amazing!
 
Eurogamer were intimidated by senior staff at MCV, speaking on behalf of Intent media. It sounds as though it was presented as a representation of their outlets and companies rather than a personal matter between the two journalists.

That said, it does seem that Lauren Wainwright instigated this because she was insulted, and the british legal system is rather bent in this area.

What do you think would have been the best reaction that Lauren could have given to the original article? She could have made her involvement with Square Enix more transparent and probably walked away from this without looking too bad. Plenty of 'fans' work in the press.

I would have asked for the opportunity to comment on the story, or to write an editorial about the matter....you know, like a professional journalist would. :)
 
Well, the two major crimes that Wainwright seems to have committed are:

#1 Let senior staff at MVC protect her by pulling strings with Eurogamer. Perhaps she was inspired by the character of the new Lara Croft and wanted to appear to be someone that men would want to protect.

#2 Was relatively open about how she had a very close link with someone at a publisher and certain other details and opinions leaving a trail for detectives to pick up on. Didn't IGN's Nintendo editor end up marrying the Nintendo PR? She is hardly the most high profile or profound example of this.
 
Well, the two major crimes that Wainwright seems to have committed are:

#1 Let senior staff at MVC protect her by pulling strings with Eurogamer. Perhaps she was inspired by the character of the new Lara Croft and wanted to appear to be someone that men would want to protect.

#2 Was relatively open about how she had a very close link with someone at a publisher and certain other details and opinions leaving a trail for detectives to pick up on. Didn't IGN's Nintendo editor end up marrying the Nintendo PR? She is hardly the most high profile or profound example of this.

Golin Harris, but same difference.
 
What do you think would have been the best reaction that Lauren could have given to the original article? She could have made her involvement with Square Enix more transparent and probably walked away from this without looking too bad. Plenty of 'fans' work in the press.

She should've done something similar to what Dave Cook did. He was one of the people mentioned in the article and he also won a PS3. He went on to post this in the comment section to Rab's article

Hi guys, Dave Cook here, I have to clarify that at the time I didn't see the hashtag thing as an issue, but earlier on when it was called into question I saw what people were driving at.

I also earlier today pledged my PS3 to the Sick Kids Save Point charity, which means it's going to a children's hospital instead. I amn't keeping it.

https://twitter.com/davescook/status/261063958327357441

All he really did was admit he was in the wrong and people have basically left him alone. That comment that he posted even has a +46 rating.
 
It's a shame really for Lauren, everyone is making her out to be a scapegoat on this and effectively ruined whatever career she had as a journalist internet wise.

No doubt she did some dumb things earlier today, but now everyone is trying to rummage through her garbage and shove it into her face yelling "GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY"

Continue looking for more concrete evidence she's a shrill anyways.

I don't agree that others have ruined her career.

The media has done this many times over to others and makes a big moral stand about how they've done some public service and brought to light some horrible injustice. Quoting "the truth will out" and other pious sentiment.

People do lose their jobs/careers over what can get written. Sometimes this is just, sometimes it is not. I rarely see the writers exercising concern or thinking through the impact of their words - whether they be alarmist sensationalism or genuine investigative journalism. Perhaps they do. However, given the crass 'anything for clicks' motives that seems to be the justification for a lot of stuff entering the public domain I simply don't get that impression.

And so, no, let's not make an exception here. Because the only difference here is where the spotlight is being directed.

The behaviour and morals make for a superb article in the games press. More so than some sodding Diablo 3 patch notes or announcing a forthcoming announcement. But the (almost utter) silence is deafening.

Also: Holy crap at the MGS4 OT.
 

PaulLFC

Member
It's a shame really for Lauren, everyone is making her out to be a scapegoat on this and effectively ruined whatever career she had as a journalist internet wise.

No doubt she did some dumb things earlier today, but now everyone is trying to rummage through her garbage and shove it into her face yelling "GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY"

Continue looking for more concrete evidence she's a shrill anyways.
You seem very sympathetic to her here while ignoring the original issue by passing it off as "dumb things". I think threatening a fellow journalist (well, the publication he wrote for) with legal action for libel while boasting about how the legal course you took has been useful, indirectly causing the journalist to resign - when the so-called "libellous" comment in question wasn't even libellous - is much more than a "dumb thing". It's disgusting, a huge overreaction and entirely the wrong way to approach the issue if she had a problem with it.

That doesn't make any personal abuse she's received right, but then, I don't think you'll find anyone in this thread saying otherwise.

She should've done something similar to what Dave Cook did. He was one of the people mentioned in the article and he also won a PS3. He went on to post this in the comment section to Rab's article

All he really did was admit he was in the wrong and people have basically left him alone. That comment that he posted even has a +46 rating.
And that's the difference. Dave's was a good reaction to the situation - when he realised he was in the wrong for the original tweet he admitted it and apologised. Wainwright went completely the other way, didn't see anything wrong with the promotion, threatened Eurogamer, and demanded an apology from them.
 

MasLegio

Banned
this is why so many "game journalists" hate on used games sales.

because their friends in the industry have convinced them it hurts them


most awful example was when one of the IGN people talked about how he was wined and dined by some developers and how they during that dinner talked about how bad used sales was. He then continued in the podcast to tell the listeners just how bad used game sales are becaues it hurts people.


I consider any "journalist" fighting used games sales to be a hired goon of the games industry without any integrity.
 

Gomu Gomu

Member
I hope people don't focus too much on Lauren, because even though her practices are shady as hell, she is not the story here. It's much bigger than her.

There's some disappointing comments in this thread worth weighing in on. Specifically, those who have dismissed the controversy because it's just "games journalism" and not worth further consideration because it's about toys.

Film was once looked on in this way. It was juvenile. Made for the poor masses and below any serious study. Then people started seeing the impact moving images could have and movies started invoking new emotions in their audiences. Do we not see the same in breath of themes in video games? And at a faster pace than in film?

Of course, if we choose to regard video games as mere toys then we'll likely repeat the same mistakes as those who disregarded the impact of early film.

The film industry eventually got thoughtful critics like Pauline Kael who pioneered film journalism. There are already some excellent writers like Tom Bissel who are doing this. There needs to be more.

Eventually, film critics did begin winning Pulizter prizes. For writing about movies. Even sports journalists — who are possibly the closest to video game reporters in that they're typically enthusiasts — are honored with the same award won by those who covered the Gulf War and life in Haiti. Should we not too demand the same level of thoughtfulness in the industry we enjoy?

There are strong stories out there worth telling. From the often deplorable working conditions of those who make the games we love possible to how a studio's vision can be too ambitious and come crashing down — and taking taxpayers with it. We need well-trained journalists to deliver these deserving stories.

Not demanding that kind of quality has enabled the kind of thing that has gone down during the past two days. Boiled down, video games may just be toys, but they're also a growing medium that continue to become more and more important to our cultural identity. That makes them worth writing about and giving serious consideration. This buddy-buddy club that has journalists in bed with PR and publishers undermines that, and it should be rooted out. So cheers to guys and gals like Rab Florence who see the state of things and do not so easily except them — and let all us readers do the same.

Amazing post.


Hah, I think the fact that no writer at IGN, GS, GB, GI or any other major gamin website has touched this story is very telling. I have absolutily no respect to any of them right now. And I'm not of the "HATE EVERYTHING & EVERYONE POPULAR" crowd. Heck, I even love Giant bomb. But what little respect I had for the writers has now vanished.

To sell you ethical integrity as a writer and self proclaimed game journalist and not write anything on the subject because you don't want PR to be mad at you and not send you free shit and make you travel for basically no cost, is enough reason for me to not respect you or your work.

ipMKp2fhl0BEw.gif


It's 3.30am, I haven't read through the thread much and I'm tired so just going off the recap from shagg_187, it's a bit rushed but whatever ;)

And now the thread is complete.

I hope this gets archived, because I believe while gaming outlets are not saying anything about the subject to let it die in peace, we need remind people that this is a consistent problem. And you should be aware of it.
 

OMG Aero

Member
The most disgusting thing in this whole thread is the news that there are Mountain Dew and Doritos cupcakes.

And that I want to try one.
 
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