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Man Edits Wind Waker so 3-Year Old Daughter Doesn't Feel 2nd Class
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
..it was breached because it was altered. but maybe that's not as clear cut and dry an offense as i thought. i will concede, my opinion may not be majority, and maybe i'm fuzzy on current cultural text philosophy.
indeed.
anyway i hope the child enjoys the game regardless.
Well here a list of games with female protangonist. http://www.giantbomb.com/female-protagonists/92-2287/games/
Seem there is 636 games at least.
He modded the game so that she could have a story where the hero is a girl. That's the favor. It's not a stupid idea if the kid enjoys the game more as a result.
Err, yeah, there aren't as many video games that feature female protagonists ... that much is true.
I think maybe you're too easily upset...
Now how many of those are good and appropriate for 3-year-olds...
Devolution
Member
Cool. Growing up as a female gamer watching the girls be useless, victims or the damsel in distress blew. My favorite character for a long time was Sheik.
Not much has changed since then, that's kind of depressing.
Not much has changed since then, that's kind of depressing.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
RATED T FOR TEEN.
Dude. C'mon.
Now it does. For his daughter exclusively.
Is this solely a matter of your belief that the need to preserve the sancity of the story as originally presented supercedes the dad's wish to present the story to his daughter in a way that will help her identify with it better? Other people have essentially said as much in this thread, which is at least understandable as a solid stance to take on the issue. I might disagree, but I can at least thoroughly understand where you're coming from on it.
Technically Wind Waker's for 3 years past her's, and the ratings are a guideline. Honestly, I think I'd be pretty comfortable showing BG&E to at least a 6 year old, it's really not much worse than a PG film AND it did come out before E10+, a rating it likely would have qualified for had it been released after that rating was ratified. Plus sometimes they just make stupid calls, only a parent or someone that personally knows the kid well can make a good call on what they can/can't handle.
And now to target the other side...
Sure, it's good to keep in mind extra options, but it really doesn't hurt to modify something like this for a 3 year old girl, especially when the main character not only plausibly works either way but Tetra can easily be mistaken for a boy if you didn't know better. That's a two edged blade thanks to that being primarily due to her resembling Link.
Looks like 20 % is Barbie, the rest shooters, "adult" games and games from a long time ago. Not really a decent list of heroines.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
If the guy likes Wind Waker and wants to make Wind Waker female friendly, that's fine.
But as a commentary on gaming.. I think this is silly.
I find that unfathomable that it was rated that high, but ok.
It has a world about as sinister as a Disney cartoon, and again, features an anthropomorphic pig... But ok. I guess it's because you walk into a bar at some point or someone says "hell" or something. I would personally have no problem showing that game to a small child, but I guess I can't argue with the ESRB
But as a commentary on gaming.. I think this is silly.
Well so it is.
I find that unfathomable that it was rated that high, but ok.
It has a world about as sinister as a Disney cartoon, and again, features an anthropomorphic pig... But ok. I guess it's because you walk into a bar at some point or someone says "hell" or something. I would personally have no problem showing that game to a small child, but I guess I can't argue with the ESRB
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Well so it is.
I find that unfathomable that it was rated that high, but ok.
I would personally have no problem showing that game to a small child, but I guess I can't argue with the ESRB
Well of course, you were this close to showing your imaginary 3 year old ALIEN just a few posts ago.
Devolution
Member
The arguments against artistic integrity and "just play other more mature game"s speaks to how little female heroes are available to her demographic. This should change and the fact that some of you will become fathers in the upcoming years means you should push for it. Symbols of female empowerment and letting your daughter know she's not helpless and can stand up for herself leads to better confidence and less insecurity down the road.
Honestly it's a good commentary on most media in general. Women/girls are woefully underrepresented as the main heroic protagonist.
Honestly it's a good commentary on most media in general. Women/girls are woefully underrepresented as the main heroic protagonist.
Zelda make you kill thousands of enemies
And here the ESRB for Beyond Good and Evil
Content descriptors: Comic Mischief, Violence
http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=30643&Title=Beyond Good and Evil HD
And Zelda Wind Waker?
Content descriptors: Violence
http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=8550&Title=The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
COMIC MISCHIEF IS CLEARLY WHAT MAKE KIDS VIOLENT
Hydranockz
Member
I like the father's effort. I, being the lazy guy I am, would have saved myself the coding and insstead play up how awesome really Tetra is.
As a sort of related topic; Are there ever any female villains in games? I surely must be forgetting a few, right? I suppose any female villain in a mostly male-focused medium would instantly get questioned.
As a sort of related topic; Are there ever any female villains in games? I surely must be forgetting a few, right? I suppose any female villain in a mostly male-focused medium would instantly get questioned.
Then support devs who make games with Female protangonist like Blackwolf studio with Gianas Sisters or complaint to Nintendo that there is not enough Princess Peach games. But really sexuality is not an issue. If I play Kirby, do I really wonder if its a boy or a girl? No. I play a monster who murder thousands of creature for Greed. Sex is not important if your game does not have a story, and even then most characters could be asexual it would not change a lot, except if you go for a Heavy Rain or heavy storytelling.
Changed the sin to better reflect the games and highlight just how horrific Kirby really is. Seriously, he eats everything he comes across and his entire purpose in Kirby Squeak Squad is to go on a rampage to get back the strawberry shortcake
a Waddle Dee ran off with and probably ate immediately anyway.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I suppose there are less female protagonists in gaming than is ideal.
Actually there were a LOT of them in the late 90s, to ride the Tomb Raider craze. As a teenager I thought it was a cliche to have a kickass girl action hero in video games, there were so many. Few of them were positive portrayals, though (mainly games meant for boys).... and few of them were in games that were good or memorable.
Id say the dude bro swept them aside along with the cartoon mascots..
Actually there were a LOT of them in the late 90s, to ride the Tomb Raider craze. As a teenager I thought it was a cliche to have a kickass girl action hero in video games, there were so many. Few of them were positive portrayals, though (mainly games meant for boys).... and few of them were in games that were good or memorable.
Id say the dude bro swept them aside along with the cartoon mascots..
Devolution
Member
How out of touch are you?
There is quite a few actually. FF 8 villain is female, Metroid villain is Mother Brain, a Female. Banjo Kazooie have a female villain (And a Male and Female Protagonist too). Alan Wake, Borderland 1 to some extend. Golden sun have a Female and Male Antagonist, Goldeneye. I mean there is a lot of games with female antagonist.
Dah, I always think that Greed and Gluttony are the same exact sin because both are about wanting more and more and more. But Greed is more about wanting what is not your.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the rise of the shooter actually limited female heroes more in recent years.
Sure, there have been games like No One Lives Forever and Perfect Dark, but the trend has been toward some ultra militaristic settings, and for better or worse, that usually implies a bunch of men running around with guns.
Sure, there have been games like No One Lives Forever and Perfect Dark, but the trend has been toward some ultra militaristic settings, and for better or worse, that usually implies a bunch of men running around with guns.
Metal Gear?!
Member
That's envy
I dont see what stop a female to be a lead in Gears of Wars or any FPS for that matter. I think its more that gamers are in majority mens, and mens prefer to identify to mens when they play.And so devs just go with a men to ensure sales.
You say sexuality is a non-issue. Than you bring up Kirby. Shouldn´t you bring up an argument?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
A shooter audience might want to play as male characters. It goes hand in hand with a militaristic interest. That's what military conflicts tend to involve, for better or for worse...
But in the jRPG genre, no one bats an eye at a female protagonist. If that genre were on top, I have no doubt that plenty of women would be represented.
(and for that matter: if platformers were on top, the furries would be well represented
)Well, he is forcing his daughter to play as a female in this game even though there are no reasons for Link to be a lady. Lara Croft has to be a lady because we need, nay, We Want To Protect Her. Zero Suit Samus needs to be a lady because We Want To See "Yummy."
We can't just be a girl in a Zelda game for any ol' who-ha reason.
These are videogames and they are profound, artistic creations. To meddle in their content is pretty much like pissing on The Pope 300 years ago.
Hydranockz
Member
I've only played BK outta that list. Completly forgot Gruntilda :lol
Kirby is an asexual being with a personality. Its not a boy and its not a girl.
The point was that sex does not matter, and that this father should teach that instead of changing Zelda Wind Waker. Disney Princesses are a far more evil than Link will ever be BTW.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think that's weird upon first hearing it. Explain.
faceless007
Member
That Andy Warhol guy was an offensive affront to art. How dare he mess with the original beauty of a photograph?
He didnt just change a story to suit her daughter. He didnt change the sex of a cat in a bedtime story. He changed it to prove a point and then proudly acclaimed that he did so. He did brought a Feminist agenda into a simple matter.
There is a major difference. He changed the sex of Link and did nothing else.
If he changed the role, where Tetra is the hero and Link is a Pirate Captain and ect ect, then I would be glad and happy. The father did not create, he simply modified facts.
That Andy Warhol guy was an offensive affront to art. How dare he mess with the original beauty of a photograph?
me trying to write a response, lol
faceless007
Member
It's pretty difficult for the father to teach the daughter that sex does not matter when every facet of our culture and the media industry constantly instills in its viewers that it does, in the roles and significance it gives to each gender.
"Parents should teach their kids that gender doesn't matter" is only a viable solution if every single parent does it. But they don't, so the ones who do have to get more proactive.
Pyrrhus
Member
Oh god. You actually are serious.
You mean Medli, the bird girl? The one you pick up and throw in order to give her some lift so she can fly over pits of lava to solve some puzzles? That one? This is you saying that the game literally and figuratively objectifies women because an NPC is used as a mechanic in a puzzle? Because that's absolutely ridiculous.
Let's keep in mind that Medli the character (as opposed to Medli the puzzle mechanic) is there in the dungeon helping you so that she can find an item that will instill confidence in her little weakling friend (who, by the way, is a boy). And that later, she turns out to be the reincarnation of a sage that guards the power to revive the Master Sword.
How is her awesomeness forgotten? She's hiding down in Hyrule because Ganondorf is actively looking for her. He knows her lineage and thus that she carries the Triforce. She's central to his plan. It's not because she's weak. It's because the guy looking for her is an evil demigod.
And then in the final battle, it's Link who plays a passive role by walking around with his shield up so Tetra can play offense by angling trick shots off the shield to break Ganondorf's perfect defense and damage him. She is literally key to Ganondorf's defeat.
When it's all over, the ending shows her back in her pirate garb, in command of her crew and ship and out roaming the world for adventure, with Link trailing behind in his tiny boat.
Puppet Zelda was in Twilight Princess, not Wind Waker.
She cooks the best healing item in the game. And so what if she cooks, unless you're the unreasonable type who says anytime a woman does something historically female it's bad? She raised Link and his sister alone. And she passed down the legends of Hyrule and gave Link his adventuring clothes. What more do you want a little old lady to do?
This is true. Aryll is a plot beat. (Would this have been perfectly fine for you if she was a little brother?) However, when Link finally catches up to her at the Forsaken Fortress, she's not afraid. She's comforting the other kidnapped girls and maintaining order. And when you see her again at the end of the game, she's fallen in naturally with Tetra's band of pirates and has switched to pirate garb. She's never depicted as weak or pathetic.
Yeah, the monsters are mostly male if they have a defined gender. But I bet you'd complain if Link were battering women, so what do you want? While we're at it, most of the normal men in the game are weirdos, perverts, or jerks. And all of the powerful, friendly, helpful characters outside of the King of Red Lions and the deities (who are all fantastical creatures, not strictly speaking men) are women. The Goddesses, all of the fairies Great and lesser, Link's grandmother, Medli, that school teacher in the village who gives you the private island, Tetra, etc.
And series villain Ganondorf is always a violent, greedy man who is driven by rage, bitterness and lust. To put it another way, the only truly powerful and recurring male character (who does things under his own volition rather than at the behest of female authority figures, as Link always does) in the series is basically fantasy Stanley Kowalski. As somebody who likes to take things out of context, you have to admit that looks pretty bad as a depiction of men, right?
I think you're taking your own baggage into this.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
And the world is a worse place as a result because...?
That Andy Warhol guy was an offensive affront to art.
Agreed.
faceless007
Member
That's an odd standard to hold the act to. Why is Tetra being the hero and Link being the pirate captain necessarily a better way? And wouldn't that be "modifying facts" in an even more drastic way? The way the father went about this accomplishes the goal of making the hero character a female in a relatively simple way and with almost no cost to believability. What do you think a far more elaborate, work-intensive, method would have accomplished above this one?
A parent starts to tell their kid a story. The kid interjects and asks why the story is one way and not another. Why can't the prince be a princess? Can't the white knight be the black knight? Can the hero be a wizard instead of a knight? The parent then changes the story based on the child suggestion. Kids like to be active participants when their parents tell a story. I did it. You probably did. Every kid does it.
One of? I think you mean "the best"!
It does not make the world a worst place, its simply lying to a girl to push that girls are better than boys.
I do not believe its good to lie about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Olsen Twins. They do not exist, so why lie to a kid about it?
PataHikari
Banned
Yes those evviilll femminists.
Because FEMINISTS!
FEMINISTS!
CURSE THOSE FEMINISTS! SAYING WOMAN CAN HE HEROES!
superchunk
Member
Why not just let her play Metroid, Tomb Raider, etc....
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Ah I see... That does make sense.
I was imagining some parent "censoring" the storybook because it didn't fit their worldview... but as you put it, I get it.
You're still going on about this? What if you flip the situation around. Having a male hero pushes that boys are better than girls. There.
It's harmless, relax.
Saying that Link was a girl in Wind Waker is a lie. There is a canon story to Zelda, and Link will always be a boy and all the girl born to be princesses are named Zelda and we have the story line, starting from Skyward Sword until the end of the 3 timelines to show that it will stay like that until the curse is gone.
Changing the Character of Link to play as Tetra, making so that Link get captured by Ganon, and that Tetra goes to save Link, discover that she's Zelda and save the day is a reimagining of the story, which is non canon, but is not a lie. It could happen. Zelda could be the one saving Link. There is no reason why Ganon would not kidnap Link instead of Zelda.