Bam Bam Baklava
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We're pretty screwed. Republicans can't even control themselves.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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TacticalFox88
Banned
Boehner pulled out.
Republicans chose to protect themselves from being primaried than doing what was best for their party. Very Randian of them
Link
The Autumn Wind
Too late to change the thread title?
TacticalFox88
Banned
I just realized something...I think this is the first time in YEARS that the GOP didn't have a Hive-Mentality toward a bill. 
I just realized something...I think this is the first time in YEARS that the GOP didn't have a Hive-Mentality toward a bill.
Yeah this was very undisciplined especially after Norquist signed off on it..
I just realized something...I think this is the first time in YEARS that the GOP didn't have a Hive-Mentality toward a bill.
Well, remember when Boehner and friends tried to whip votes for the first TARP vote back in 2008? That did not work out too well, either. Like that vote showed, Boehner has a problem with counting votes. Or is equally bad at his 'projecting confidence' as a tactic to win more votes.
Officerrob
Banned
Seems to me like Boehner was Charlie Brown, and Cantor was Lucy holding the football. How bad will the sell-off be on Wall Street tomorrow?
It might make Obama look good. I'm not kidding. Obama would get nothing he wanted and yet they feared he would somehow look good in the process.
Black Mamba
Member
|OT| Plan B Not Necessary As Boehner Turns Limp In Front Of Full Caucus
or stop at Limp.
lol GOP
or stop at Limp.
lol GOP
Are you kidding me? Please tell me this is a j--oh dear god shoot me now.
He usually films around 3pm. Hannity, on the other hand, is live and will be epic.
I don't think O'Reilly is a live show, that may be why.
Pretty much. Sure, we can (and will) laugh at Boehner and his gross incompetence, but when all is said and done this whole thing has exposed once and for all how thoroughly dysfunctional congress is right now, thanks mainly to the irresponsible imbeciles that compose today's Republican party.
Is there any doubt that any reasonable, rational political party would have cut a deal much closer to the Presidents original proposal than to his most recent one, let alone to plan B? And yet the House GOP rejects plan B not because it's terrible policy, but because it dares to include some revenue increases. They're nowhere near close to a reasoned response, let alone to offering any kind of solution that could be said to be in the best interests of the country as a whole.
If this is the shape of things to come then we're in for a long two years (if not more), wherein GOP obstruction can and will do serious harm to the US economy. It's sad, more than anything else.
Cillizza called this earlier today..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/12/20/boehner-agonistes/?hpid=z1
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/12/20/boehner-agonistes/?hpid=z1
Soooo crazy. It was a damned chess move specifically built to make Obama look bad. I mean if it passed the house the Republicans could sit back and say, "Hey, I thought we wanted to pass what we agreed on. We both agree that millionaires should get their taxes raise, and everyone else should not."
I kind of even feel like it was the one single hope to make the Republicans not look terribad in this whole process, and now with this they look even worse.
Black Mamba
Member
Merry Xmas!
This is why it was so vital the obstructionism failed to win them the presidency and senate this election. Sure, they're too stupid to look internally and fix it now but in the end the GOP will eat itself rather than allow our politics become this for the long haul.
It will be a painful battle for the next 4-6 years but I think things will fix itself in the process. God I hope so.
This remains the greatest game ever made, holy shit.
You are absolutely, 110% right. They couldn't even take their heads out of their asses long enough to make themselves look good with a completely meaningless gesture. The GOP everybody!
I just don't think some in the Republican Caucus care anymore. They honestly don't give a shit about anything but political power.
Link
The Autumn Wind
If you listen to the Republican callers on C-Span, they're still blaming Obama for not working with Republicans. They'll still see exactly what they want to see, no matter how disfunctional the party becomes.
This move wasn't to make them look good for the standard republican who is going to support them no matter what, it was for everyone else.
They are not wrong. It also will likely cost him his job.
TacticalFox88
Banned
The Dems need to start being the CIA during the Cold War and make this Civil War between the GOP even more glorious.
I think we're in for a VERY interesting political shift come the 2020s.
Link
The Autumn Wind
With all the other measures Boehner had to add to the bill just to get it to a vote, they weren't looking good anyway. It was essentially a Republican wish list plus the tax hike on $1million+.
Yeah, this has to be Cantor fucking with Boehner and then pulling away at the last second in order to get power.
It's an odd negotiation now, because I think Cantor must want to go over the cliff since it means speakership for him, and Obama will go over because it means he can reintroduce tax cuts, etc.
The demo they were targeting wouldn't have paid attention to anything but the fact something got passed. They were targeting the low information type and trying to change the cable news narrative. The fact that they shit the bed doing so is poetic justice.
TacticalFox88
Banned
To me it seems as if everyone was bullshitting all month and the only person who *really* didn't want to go over the cliff was Boehner as his ass was on the line.
Cantor and Obama won tonight.
That stuff's pretty easily hidden to the lower information voter. The bill could be characterized in such an easy way, especially for Republicans who are great at doing it.
I dunno about Obama and the democrats. They are basically going to have to hold defense spending hostage to get all of the other social program spending back up to pre-cliff levels. Im not totally confident that they will have the balls to wait it out
Chained CPI is the first thing that needs to go
Black Mamba
Member
Why would Canter or anyone else want the job, though? It would make the GOP look worse if Canter or McCarthy was Speaker. Boehner at least appears almost reasonable.
Being Speaker is like the worst job right now. You're weak (no Senate control or Presidency, small majority and people don't like the House/Congress) as there is no real unity.
I'm not convinced this was a power play by Cantor. I think he's smart enough to know Boehner is better as a figurehead for the party right now. I think this is just chaos in the party.
Either way, Boehner looks even weaker than ever.
Being Speaker is like the worst job right now. You're weak (no Senate control or Presidency, small majority and people don't like the House/Congress) as there is no real unity.
I'm not convinced this was a power play by Cantor. I think he's smart enough to know Boehner is better as a figurehead for the party right now. I think this is just chaos in the party.
Either way, Boehner looks even weaker than ever.
They won't need to. People are going to be hurting and all they have to do is play the media and they won't even need to do a decent job. They need to fix the filibuster first though, if they go back to a talking filibuster it will strengthen their hand immensely.
If Cantor can grab power he gains the ability to steer the debate how he sees fit. While Boehner is ready to compromise Cantor will not and he thinks Obama will fold under the pressure of wanting to do the right thing.
speculawyer
Member
I thought you didn't need Plan B if you pulled your Boener out.
Link
The Autumn Wind
That goes without saying. I can't believe they would ever even put that on the table to begin with.
this is just so rich. The Republicans are going to be massacred amongst the polling for the way the fiscal cliff shit has played out. Is the public going to favor them when they try to play chicken with the countries credit rating when the debt ceiling comes up again? Who would support this party at this point?
"We support individual Liberty!"
Except when it's a women's right to not have people probe their vaginas when they have pregnant. Or to choose whether an unthinking, unfeeling fetus blob can be aborted. Also, except when it comes to the right of homosexuals to share their life in marriage with the individuals they love. No, government should TOTALLY get involved then!
"We support fiscal responsibility!"
Except when it comes to tax cuts, wars, defense budget, and every possible combination of corporate welfare that is one can imagine. If there's a gas company that we can give a tax break to, we'll give it!
"We support the right of every American to own guns, with virtually no preconditions!"
Said the Republicans - 'Hey, if twenty 6 and 7 year olds get slaughtered with high capacity magazines and assault rifles, we should make sure people have more guns! Give teachers guns! College students guns! Janitors guns! This won't backfire at all! As we all know the more guns a country has, the less gun violence it has! All stats support this!
"We support individual Liberty!"
Except when it's a women's right to not have people probe their vaginas when they have pregnant. Or to choose whether an unthinking, unfeeling fetus blob can be aborted. Also, except when it comes to the right of homosexuals to share their life in marriage with the individuals they love. No, government should TOTALLY get involved then!
"We support fiscal responsibility!"
Except when it comes to tax cuts, wars, defense budget, and every possible combination of corporate welfare that is one can imagine. If there's a gas company that we can give a tax break to, we'll give it!
"We support the right of every American to own guns, with virtually no preconditions!"
Said the Republicans - 'Hey, if twenty 6 and 7 year olds get slaughtered with high capacity magazines and assault rifles, we should make sure people have more guns! Give teachers guns! College students guns! Janitors guns! This won't backfire at all! As we all know the more guns a country has, the less gun violence it has! All stats support this!
But how will that change any votes in the house? The only way the house is going to pass a bill that returns social program funding to pre-cliff levels is if we tie defense spending to it. Even then I am not confident that they do it cause if they can't even pass a purely political posturing bill...
I agree that this was vital, as the damage caused by a GOP-controlled senate and WH would have been much more vast and immediate. But it's obvious now that they can still do plenty of damage with just the (gerrymandered) House under their control.
Any economist (including Krugman et al.) will tell you that going over the cliff is not a desirable option at all. That it is the best we can get speaks volumes of congress' dysfunction. Not to mention that it makes anyone hoping Obama's reelection would force the GOP to be more forthcoming and less obstructionist look like naive fools (and I was one of those).
The pressure. If it looks like the Senate is getting things done it will put pressure on the House to do the same. If Obama and the Dems paint it as "The GOP isn't willing to help those among us who need it the most unless we give into powerful lobbies who are just after profits," then they won't have much of a choice but to cave. They will get somethings out of it, but not a whole lot.
Black Mamba
Member
Not sure Boehner can survive this. All he did was prove he can't pass anything with the GOP. Not Obama's plan, not his plan.
this means he will have to put forward a bill that only Dems will vote + a handful of GOP voters. But the GOP won't allow this to happens and to prevent it, will have to get a new Speaker.
What a mess. Boehner just probably ruined his career tonight.
I agree. Sadly, I pretty much figured the GOP would be like this until they lose in 2016. I believe that loss will cause the reformation (or excommunication depending on point of view).
Go over the cliff, pass the tax cuts you want, and call the GOP's bluff. Despite gerrymandering, this could be what puts them out of the House in 2014.
this means he will have to put forward a bill that only Dems will vote + a handful of GOP voters. But the GOP won't allow this to happens and to prevent it, will have to get a new Speaker.
What a mess. Boehner just probably ruined his career tonight.
I agree. Sadly, I pretty much figured the GOP would be like this until they lose in 2016. I believe that loss will cause the reformation (or excommunication depending on point of view).
Go over the cliff, pass the tax cuts you want, and call the GOP's bluff. Despite gerrymandering, this could be what puts them out of the House in 2014.
I guess you have more faith in the house than i do
TacticalFox88
Banned
To me, until the GOP genuinely goes back to where it was pre 9/11 (which speaks volumes of how bad they are now), they shouldn't be ANYWHERE near the White House.
I just cannot trust that amount of crazy to not fuck us over long term.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ers-speakership-survive-until-plan-c/?hpid=z1
Will Boehner crawl to Pelosi?
Will Boehner crawl to Pelosi?
el retorno
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Wait for hannity
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