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[Grief.exe]

That's fine. I just won't buy console games until they are under $20 then. I was figuring on sticking to PC anyways next gen, this just makes my decision easier.

Welcome.

Anti-consumer practices are already rampant on consoles anyways, I'm sure Xbox is planning the same strategy.

Console players pay for P2P connections anyways, why wouldn't they accept this as well?

Gamestop sure would hate this...

...Redbox, gamefly, blockbuster, etc

There is a lot of companies on the line here.

The reason why PC games are cheap is because of the 4 points you mentioned :v

Why dont you think this would lead to cheaper games on consoles ?

Has literally nothing to do with why PC games are so cheap.

There are two main reasons.

1. Combating piracy through aggressive pricing and convenience.

2. Service based clients trying to attract more users to their systems. Losing money on the front-end through cheap games and consumer friendly F2P policies to get more clients installed and make more revenue on the back-end.

 

[Pranay]

So if this is implemented:

No more used games
No more renting games
No more lending games
No more passing on games

If this happened sales would be down across the board and game prices would surely rise as a result. If this is the future of consoles them I'm prepared to make the jump to PC when it happens since while the same restrictions are there it has the pricing model to make it somewhat palatable.

The reason why PC games are cheap is because of the 4 points you mentioned :v

Why dont you think this would lead to cheaper games on consoles ?

As would all of Japan.

Yep

 

[vg260]

Yeah, I'm just saying regardless, they have the tech in use already to tie a physical disc to one account, with the physical disc esentially being an unlock key. You can't take the disc and redeem the Vita version on another system. It ties the physical disc to an account. It's already being done techincally. They could just as easily make the disc be an unlock key for the PS3 version instead of a Vita version.

Except that would be locking you out of the content you actually bought, not exactly the same thing.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. The tech they're already using could be used for a model where you need to tie the disc to your account before you can play the game. Kind of like if you bought a retail version of a steam-redeemable game. Of course it would cause a meltdown if they implemented that in PS3 games now, but the tech is there now to do so.

 

[Quackula]

Seriously? Okay, will you be alive in 25 yrs to enjoy those game? No one knows.

I certainly plan to be alive for another 25 years. What do you think I'm 60 or something?

You can't even get online with the original Xbox anymore. Why should I expect Sony to keep online support for legacy hardware around for that long?

 

[SuperSonic1305]

Obviously they are researching it. If Microsoft implements it than Sony has no choice to do it as well otherwise Microsoft could leverage it to get exclusives for the 720.

 

[gutterboy44]

Gamestop Used Games (PS3):
Deus Ex: HR: $15
Sleeping Dogs: $39
Hitman Absolution:$55

Total: $109

Steam "New" Games(PC):
Square Enix Publisher Bundle includes all of the above + 17 other games.

Total: $90


Nooooo, don't take the used games away!

 

[Mael]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. The tech they're already using could be used for a model where you need to tie the disc to your account before you can play the game. Kind of like if you bought a retail version of a steam-redeemable game. Of course it would cause a meltdown if they implemented that in PS3 games now, but the tech is there now to do so.

You can nest the quotes (it'll be clearer that way).
What I'm saying is that it's why no one cares about the way it's used on ps3/vita now.

Gamestop Used Games (PS3):
Deus Ex: HR: $15
Sleeping Dogs: $39
Hitman Absolution:$55

Total: $109

Steam "New" Games(PC):
Square Enix Publisher Bundle includes all of the above + 17 other games.

Total: $90

Nooooo, don't take the used games away!

You can use Steam games on your PS3?

 

[i-Lo]

Console players pay for P2P connections anyways, why wouldn't they accept this as well?

Hmm... I don't remember paying for online to play online over PSN.

 

[Pranay]

Gamestop Used Games (PS3):
Deus Ex: HR: $15
Sleeping Dogs: $39
Hitman Absolution:$55

Total: $109

Steam "New" Games(PC):
Square Enix Publisher Bundle includes all of the above + 17 other games.

Total: $90


Nooooo, don't take the used games away!

To be fair in Eu

one of the game is free or 7 euro and the other two got 60% off during sales

 

[Grief.exe]

Hmm... I don't remember paying for online to play online over PSN.

I literally referenced the xbox and microsoft in the previous sentence.

Taking my argument out of context, classy.

Gamestop Used Games (PS3):
Deus Ex: HR: $15
Sleeping Dogs: $39
Hitman Absolution:$55

Total: $109

Steam "New" Games(PC):
Square Enix Publisher Bundle includes all of the above + 17 other games.

Total: $90


Nooooo, don't take the used games away!

Honestly you could have gotten those games for $21 with DD on PC over the holidays.

Hitman: $10 after $10 credit (Amazon)
Deus Ex: HR: $5 (Steam)
Sleeping Dogs: $6 after $6 credit (GMG)

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Gamestop Used Games (PS3):
Deus Ex: HR: $15
Sleeping Dogs: $39
Hitman Absolution:$55

Total: $109

Steam "New" Games(PC):
Square Enix Publisher Bundle includes all of the above + 17 other games.

Total: $90


Nooooo, don't take the used games away!

Well, with gamestop, you can keep trading a game back every week for a different game, making it cheaper in the end.

 

[test_account]

not much for regular stuff especially in high volume. skylanders uses rfid and it's cheap as well to make those figures still. of course i doubt sony would use a regular rfid tag, not secure enough, so it's hard to really say. doubt they'd go for anything that adds more than 50 cents, maybe a dollar at the extreme, to the cost of pressing a disc

I see, thanks. Yeah, security would also be an issue, normal RFID might not be that secure. Does the Skylander pod writes to the RFID as well, or is it a reader only?

 

[Durante]

Gamestop Used Games (PS3):
Deus Ex: HR: $15
Sleeping Dogs: $39
Hitman Absolution:$55

Total: $109

Steam "New" Games(PC):
Square Enix Publisher Bundle includes all of the above + 17 other games.

Total: $90


Nooooo, don't take the used games away!

Money to S-E in the upper case: $0
Money to S-E in the lower case: $60

 

[Sentenza]

The reason why PC games are cheap is because of the 4 points you mentioned :v

No, the reasons why PC games are so cheap are:
- it's an open platform with virtually no minimum entry level
- there are no platform owners taking a huge cut of revenues
- there is actual free competition
- physical market doesn't have virtually any influence or power to dictate conditions anymore.

 

[i-Lo]

I literally referenced the xbox and microsoft in the previous sentence.

Taking my argument out of context, classy.

Yea, I misunderstood because I read, "console players" as an overarching term.

 

[surly]

Hopefully this doesn't happen. It would be shite to see console gamers getting shafted as much as PC gamers and losing a bunch of rights as to what they can do with their games.

 

[FSLink]

No, the reasons why PC games are so cheap are:
- it's an open platform
- there are no platform owners taking a huge cut of revenues
- there is actual free competition
- physical market doesn't have virtually any influence or power to dictate conditions anymore.

Plus let's face it, even if that weren't all true, there's no way they'd pass off the "savings" to the consumer when they're used to selling us games for around $60 MSRP.

 

[Grief.exe]

Add these to mine and we have a pretty complete argument. Not that we need one, what he said was pretty nonsensical.

No, the reasons why PC games are so cheap are:
- it's an open platform
- there are no platform owners taking a huge cut of revenues
- there is actual free competition
- physical market doesn't have virtually any influence or power to dictate conditions anymore.

Has literally nothing to do with why PC games are so cheap.

There are two main reasons.

1. Combating piracy through aggressive pricing and convenience.

2. Service based clients trying to attract more users to their systems. Losing money on the front-end through cheap games and consumer friendly F2P policies to get more clients installed and make more revenue on the back-end.

Money to S-E in the upper case: $0
Money to S-E in the lower case: $60

Good point.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Aren't most fighting game tournaments sponsored? I reckon sponsoring [x] new copies of the games they'll be playing to have them on each set up they need to run the tournament is more or less a non-issue.

By tournaments I mean local events made by fans in random places as well as the big ones.

Even the big franchise titles need grass root support from local events made by fans in random places otherwise they'll get not nearly as much paying competitors entering the big events.

How does this work today? If you link two consoles up to eachother, dont you need 2 copies of the game?

The amount of disc swapping and moving things around changing games for various reasons is quite often. Even now, "this machine doesn't have the DLC" etc.

 

[i-Lo]

Pretty sure Sony may start out with their first party software. Not really sure whether third parties would partake in this system unless otherwise obligated. Also, it would really look bad for Sony if they are to do this alone...

 

[Velcro Fly]

Show me a horrible practice in the video game industry, and I'll show you fifty people that will line up to defend it even if it isn't in line with their own self interest as gamers.

The only reason shit like this happens is because we as gamers allow it to happen.

 

[HyperCubed4]

Obviously they are researching it. If Microsoft implements it than Sony has no choice to do it as well otherwise Microsoft could leverage it to get exclusives for the 720.

You're saying that making a console that cannot play used games would entice developers to make games for that console? I'm not understanding what you're saying.

 

[test_account]

By tournaments I mean local events made by fans in random places as well as the big ones.

Even the big franchise titles need grass root support from local events made by fans in random places.

Out of curiousity, how would this be a problem?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I think if one console manufacturer came up with the idea of the game disc imploding a month after you first played a game, there would be a defense force for it.

Not sure if I want to support these new consoles if this happens. Don't care about used games, but it feels like a slippery slope and that they'd just take more things away in the future if their sales are still good.

 

[benny_a]

Money to S-E in the upper case: $0
Money to S-E in the lower case: $60

Are you purposefully disregarding the arguments made in this thread?

This has been stated in every single used games thread ever: The person selling the above games, purchased new games using the money he got. And if he only got trade-in value he was forced to buy a product which is purchasable at a video game store.

- there are no platform owners taking a huge cut of revenues

Steam is the biggest sales portal for PC games and they take a huge cut of revenue. They take 30% which means every copy of a PC game at MSRP on Steam gets the publisher the same amount of money as every console game sold at retail for MSRP.

 

[Proxy]

No, the reasons why PC games are so cheap are:
- it's an open platform with virtually no minimum entry level
- there are no platform owners taking a huge cut of revenues
- there is actual free competition
- physical market doesn't have virtually any influence or power to dictate conditions anymore.

Steam, GamersGate, Greenman Gaming, GOG etc.. Don't get their share? They just willing lose money, huh?

Pretty sure Sony may start out with their first party software. Not really sure whether third parties would partake in this system unless otherwise obligated. Also, it would really look bad for Sony if they are to do this alone...

If Sony goes ahead with this it will be in part because of third parties.

 

[Pranay]

No, the reasons why PC games are so cheap are:
- it's an open platform with virtually no minimum entry level
- there are no platform owners taking a huge cut of revenues
- there is actual free competition
- physical market doesn't have virtually any influence or power to dictate conditions anymore.

Bingo ! to the quote i replied. That's the most important part.



The rest is something which i rather feel isnt that important imo and sales wise their will be competition and both ms and sony take 30% like steam only

 

[grimshawish]

Money to S-E in the upper case: $0
Money to S-E in the lower case: $60

The person who paid full retail for those upper games funding it through second selling would disagree pretty strongly that SE ain't getting money from those sales.

 

[alphaNoid]

Doesn't sound like a good way to combat the issue.

 

[Dellrizla]

What the heck? I used to really like Sony. Sad day for gamers everywhere!

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Steam, GamersGate, Greenman Gaming, GOG etc.. Don't get their share? They just willing lose money, huh?

Umm, those are the retailer cuts.

Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo usually get a $10 cut from game sales to go along with the retailer cut in console games.

 

[Sentenza]

Steam is the biggest sales portal for PC games and they take a huge cut of revenue. They take 30% which means every copy of a PC game at MSRP on Steam gets the publisher the same amount of money as every console game sold at retail for MSRP.

Steam, GamersGate, Greenman Gaming, GOG etc.. Don't get their share? They just willing lose money, huh?

Uh. They get their cut from the sale when they are, you know, directly selling the game.
They don't get any cut when you buy your game from any other source.

Hell, Valve doesn't even take a cut from Steamworks-based games unless you buy them directly on Steam.

Show me a horrible practice in the video game industry, and I'll show you fifty people that will line up to defend it even if it isn't in line with their own self interest as gamers.

The only reason shit like this happens is because we as gamers allow it to happen.

Yeah. Case in point: closed platforms.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Out of curiousity, how would this be a problem?

The local events wouldn't be sponsored like the big ones are.

 

[Kum0]

Remember what happened to Mass Effect 3 in the UK?

Game could no put money up for a large bulk of stock.... retailers power is diminishing quickly especially with the growth of Broadband and digital marketplaces.

IF games were slightly cheaper Digitally 2nd hand market would dry up. Alternatively, the industry needs to take a stand over their content and start getting subsidised on 2nd hand products.

This might hurt fans, but retailers are hurting the industry.

I'm sure loads of "hardcore" buy 2nd hand games.... shame you wont be around if you and every other "hardcore" bought 2nd hand.

I personally don't like COD but image the amount of money they would have made around Christmas if 2nd hand didn't exist.

 

[Grief.exe]

Are you purposefully disregarding the arguments made in this thread?

This has been stated in every single used games thread ever: The person selling the above games, purchased new games using the money he got. And if he only got trade-in value he was forced to buy a product which is purchasable at a video game store.

Source on that?

I highly doubt it. Wouldn't he be more likely to buy used games? How can you prove that they are guaranteed to turn around and buy new games.

Your argument makes no sense.

Remember what happened to Mass Effect 3 in the UK?

Game could no put money up for a large bulk of stock.... retailers power is diminishing quickly especially with the growth of Broadband and digital marketplaces.

IF games were slightly cheaper Digitally 2nd hand market would dry up. Alternatively, the industry needs to take a stand over their content and start getting subsidised on 2nd hand products.

This might hurt fans, but retailers are hurting the industry.

That had more to do with their credit rating and looming bankruptcy. Has nothing to do with perceived retailer power.

Kind of getting tired of explaining this stuff.

Show me a horrible practice in the video game industry, and I'll show you fifty people that will line up to defend it even if it isn't in line with their own self interest as gamers.

The only reason shit like this happens is because we as gamers allow it to happen.

Gamers are some of the worst consumers.

 

[Pranay]

Umm, those are the retailer cuts.

Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo usually get a $10 cut from game sales to go along with the retailer cut in console games.

Go through the entire discussion.

Their is nothing PSN/Live do differently then other PC DD services interms of revenue cut in DD .

The difference is one has a huge retail presence and the the doesnt

Source on that?

I highly doubt it. Wouldn't he be more likely to buy used games? How can you prove that they are guaranteed to turn around and buy new games.

Your argument makes no sense.

Cause thats what most genreally do or what ive seen

 

[Mael]

Source on that?

I highly doubt it. Wouldn't he be more likely to buy used games? How can you prove that they are guaranteed to turn around and buy new games.

Your argument makes no sense.

Are you saying that for the aforementionned used games no one paid for them when they were new?

 

[benny_a]

Source on that?

I highly doubt it. Wouldn't he be more likely to buy used games? How can you prove that they are guaranteed to turn around and buy new games.

Your argument makes no sense.

I have no source, but I've been found out. It's used games all the way down. That makes a whole lot more sense.

 

[Takuan]

I can see a move like this hurting developers and publishers more than it helps them. I don't understand the mindset which has them believing that people who rely on trade-in promotions to subsidize the hobby will buy games at MSRP that have no value once they've been played once. What's more likely to happen is that they will be more selective of what they buy, and be more inclined to wait for sales. How will studios swallow high development costs when sales revenues are bound to be lower across the board?

I'm all for PCs taking over, so Sony and Microsoft can go ahead and implement anti-used games measures in their next gen systems as they see fit. Seeing Gamestop go down in flames would be an added bonus.

 

[meppi]

As would all of Japan.

I've actually wondered what happened there.
I know there was a strong push to ban resale of games in Japan in the late 90's, early 2000's.
Just about every Japanese game released in those years on PSone, Saturn, N64 and Dreamcast had the "no resale" emblem on the box. (never seen it on Neo Geo stuff though)
Yet it's been many years since I've seen one of these.
Heard about the legislation for it not passing or something, but that was all from 2nd hand information. (excuse the pun )

 

[jonno394]

Are you purposefully disregarding the arguments made in this thread?

This has been stated in every single used games thread ever: The person selling the above games, purchased new games using the money he got. And if he only got trade-in value he was forced to buy a product which is purchasable at a video game store.

That isn't the same for every trade in though, people can trade in just to buy used games from the retailer. WHo wins then, the consumer and the retailer.

 

[Grief.exe]

Cause thats what most genreally do

Oh really? What an excellent argument. I'm glad you've cleared that up...

Are you saying that for the aforementioned used games no one paid for them when they were new?

Nice Strawman.

I have no source, but I've been found out. It's used games all the way down. That makes a whole lot more sense.

I honestly have no idea what you even said here.

This is getting worse and worse.

Reading these posts is giving me a headache, usually there is some great discussion on Gaf but this is getting sad.

 

[CadetMahoney]

IF games were slightly cheaper Digitally 2nd hand market would dry up.

If that means I could get Dragons Dogma for $20 6 months post launch date that isn't a fire sale then I'm all for it.

 

[linkent]

sony should also region lock the system..
and it is complete..

PS: Vita IS "Half" Region Lock

 

[Pranay]

That isn't the same for every trade in though, people can trade in just to buy used games from the retailer. WHo wins then, the consumer and the retailer.

That what genreally gamestop avoid

I have no link now but i heard they genreally trade in values applies on newer games only

Thats how mostly the system works

If that means I could get Dragons Dogma for $20 6 months post launch date then I'm all for it.

It was 10$ on ms store

 

[Nokagi]

I can't see Sony going through with this unless they know for certain that Microsoft is also doing it. There's noway in hell people would buy a PS4 that has this "feature" if the next Microsoft console does not. But if they both are doing it then personally I'll just wait a few years until the systems and the games are cheap and never buy any game above 20 dollars.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

Aren't most fighting game tournaments sponsored? I reckon sponsoring [x] new copies of the games they'll be playing to have them on each set up they need to run the tournament is more or less a non-issue.

I agree it would be awful for households with multiple systems though. It's straight up bullshit. I just don't think it'll have much impact on a fighting game tournament unless it's one of those small local ones hosted by a few fans running stuff on their own.

What are you basing this on?

 

[benny_a]

That isn't the same for every trade in though, people can trade in just to buy used games from the retailer. WHo wins then, the consumer and the retailer.

I didn't want to imply that in 100% of every case someone trading it in is for a new game.

But the regular motivation in my experience for someone that goes in to GameStop to trade a game in, is to get a new game. New implies not used, because if a game is new it can't be used yet. That used stock just doesn't exist yet. He in turn can turn around 2 days later or how fast he is and create that used stock by selling his game, which a different subset probably does.

Now based on the NPD sales numbers, someone is clearly still buying those new games or we wouldn't have 25 million sales for the latest Call of Duty, not counting used sales.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

How about using old tech to suppress second-hand sales:

Make your product so enticing that gamers rush out on day one to buy it new. Lower the price on games that have been out for months upon months.

 

[Mael]

Nice Strawman.

You're saying no one paid the pubs for the games, I'm pointing out that the transaction already took place.

That isn't the same for every trade in though, people can trade in just to buy used games from the retailer. WHo wins then, the consumer and the retailer.

Unless I'm mistaken the used copies were new once, pubs got their money when the game left their warehouse.
They shouldn't get more money by sitting on their asses than doing actual work.