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[Violater]

PS4 - Lsd
Durango - Weed
Wii U - Bath Salts

Fixed.

 

[Phonomezer]

Orbis = Lady Gaga. Looks good on paper; will be as average as the competition.

Durango = Madonna. Versatile. The Data Move engine is the talent and dignity that Lady Gaga doesn't posses.

Wii U = Christina Aguilera. Hilarious and bloated.

 

[FrankT]

GPU and CPU load.

It's a pretty important piece of silicon.

Wants to know more about these.

Are there actually 4?

Anyhow, will be interesting to see the first pieces of software they show with this thing. I'm pleased with what I'm seeing so far on combined output of the RAM. With these Data Move engines I would certainly like to see how everything stacks up in the end.

Right now thinking 1080p 30fps min with many bells. 1080p 60fps at medium to high compared to what we have out now. Later on down the line who knows.

There's a big difference this time around, and it's that the consoles are made from virtually identical components. The CPUs seem to be literally identical, and the GPUs are built around the same architecture. The RAM situation is different, and there may be bells and whistles here and there, but Orbis and Durango are far more comparable than PS3 and 360 ever were.

Agreed.

 

[Desty]

So Durango, like Xbox 360, has a unified RAM (i.e. not separate CPU and GPU memory).
Does Orbis also have unified RAM or is it separate like PS3?

 

[pixlexic]

Orbis: Gran Turismo
Durango: Forza
WiiU: Mario Kart

mario kart sells like 20 million a game.

 

[Vitet]

Orbis

Durango

WiiU

 

[Biggzy]

So Durango, like Xbox 360, has a unified RAM (i.e. not separate CPU and GPU memory).
Does Orbis also have unified RAM or is it separate like PS3?

Unified.

 

[1st Course]

So you're saying epic will throw away safe money and jump into rocky waters? F2P is very unstable. People only look at few success stories and ignore the ton of F2P games that fail. Epic would be so dumb to do this.

F2P is a very old financial system that have been going strong in Asia for more than a decade now, it's only new in the west.

 

[Mik_Pad]

mario kart sells like 20 million a game.

Call of Duty too

 

[gollumsluvslave]

Something regarding the ESRAM doesn't add up.

So far as I know ESRAM is supposed to be better than EDRAM, but the 10MB EDRAM on 360 provided a whopping 256GB/s bandwidth to the GPU (daughter die straight to ROPS)

So for 720 they are going with supposedly better ESRAM that has only 102GB/s bandwidth?

That's a pretty hefty bandwidth drop!

 

[enzo_gt]

Orbis: Stronger
Durango: Can't Tell Me Nothin'
Wii U: Drunk and Hot Girls

 

[paskowitz]

More like..

PC: Venom GT
Orbis: 2013 Nissan GTR
Durango: Base Z06 (no cup tires)
WiiU: Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8

Fixed. The performance difference between the Camaro and GTR is massive.

Orbis: Gran Turismo
Durango: Forza
WiiU: Mario Kart

That is perfect.

 

[Durante]

Someting regarding the ESRAM doesn't add up.

I agree. The quoted bandwidth seems far too low. One explanation attempt posted earlier is that it's the main memory <-> ESRAM BW, not the ESRAM <-> GPU BW.

So Durango, like Xbox 360, has a unified RAM (i.e. not separate CPU and GPU memory).
Does Orbis also have unified RAM or is it separate like PS3?

Orbis has even more unified RAM than 360. Durango is similar to 360 in memory layout.

 

[Elios83]

If the PS4 has a Pitcairn class GPU close to 7850/70 and the Durango doesn't, the battle for power should be already over. Dat Kinect pack-in.

Anyway, would have been weird to have both next gen consoles sporting the same GPU, so I guess this makes some sense. I wonder how those negotiations at AMD went down...

I don't think it's about negotiations but about making choices.
Microsoft has chosen not to make an expensive hardware and they're trying to customize what they have to offset the impact the weak points (not many CUs in the GPU and really slow main memory) and get the best out of what they have.
Also this round there will be other costs with extra peripherals which will included as standard in the console (camera, controllers with a screen and sensors).

 

[sangreal]

Something regarding the ESRAM doesn't add up.

So far as I know ESRAM is supposed to be better than EDRAM, but the 10MB EDRAM on 360 provided a whopping 256GB/s bandwidth to the GPU (daughter die straight to ROPS)

So for 720 they are going with supposedly better ESRAM that has only 102GB/s bandwidth?

That's a pretty hefty bandwidth drop!

I don't think the bandwidth between the gpu and the daughter die was 256GB/s

 

[Proelite]

Something regarding the ESRAM doesn't add up.

So far as I know ESRAM is supposed to be better than EDRAM, but the 10MB EDRAM on 360 provided a whopping 256GB/s bandwidth to the GPU (daughter die straight to ROPS)

Nope. 256gbs internally to rops. It was less than 102GB/s to the outside.

 

[Biggzy]

Something regarding the ESRAM doesn't add up.

So far as I know ESRAM is supposed to be better than EDRAM, but the 10MB EDRAM on 360 provided a whopping 256GB/s bandwidth to the GPU (daughter die straight to ROPS)

So for 720 they are going with supposedly better ESRAM that has only 102GB/s bandwidth?

That's a pretty hefty bandwidth drop!

Someone mentioned that the ROPs in the Xenos were not capable of decompression; hence the bandwidth.

 

[abadguy]

That's only because there were more ps3 devs programming for the ground up for the ps3. Most of MS' devs used ue3 or some rehash of an old engine. But just look at Halo 4, that is one of if not the best looking console games I've ever seen; and that was using a modified Halo reach engine, which was a modified halo 3 engine.

Not to mention PGR4 and Forza:Horizon.

 

[thiswasavailable]

GPU and CPU load.

It's a pretty important piece of silicon.

MEMEXPORT had a baby didn't it.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

MS might believe that the Kinect maybe the difference maker that could catapult them to the top. I think there is pretty strong chance that the Kinect might be in every box, especially with cost savings going with very modestly specced hardware.

There would be no reason not to offer a kinect-free sku to undercut their competitors on price. Especially since it seems that the hdd is mandatory now and MS has juggled with up to 5 skus simultaneously in the past few years.

 

[Horse Armour]

Nope. 256gbs internally to rops. It was less than 102GB/s to the outside.

It was 32GB/s to the outside.

 

[davious88]

not possible. You'd have a few tiers of experience.

- basic overlay, VOD services like Netflix. All DVRs should support this, you're just passing stuff through
+ combined EPG. This would require MS to license TV listings per country, and the channel listings per DVR manufacturer/local area. Not guaranteed 100% coverage but should be ok for most major markets
+DVR channel changing: Doable for things like Tivo etc. Needs LAN controllable DVR boxes and they are still a bit thin on the ground. Much better experience, but much less global penetration
+ local recordings search and playback: least widely supported but the ultimate experience.

the tech press and the 1% will love it and shout about it on blogs etc which may create attraction though, and that might be enough. Maybe MS just want to spoil Apple's party and have no major marketshare expectations based on this and just want the halo, and will still produce great first party games etc.

Also, how would controlling the thing work? For punch thru wouldn't the controller need infrared and line of sight etc.?

 

[Jadedx]

There's a big difference this time around, and it's that the consoles are made from virtually identical components. The CPUs seem to be literally identical, and the GPUs are built around the same architecture. The RAM situation is different, and there may be bells and whistles here and there, but Orbis and Durango are far more comparable than PS3 and 360 ever were.

The bases might be the same but from what all the insiders are saying, its the secret sauce with all of it's special spices that are going to make the 720's base more efficient that than the ps4's.

Edit: This thread is moving way too fast. How am I supposed to learn c++ pointers and structs and read all this at the same time?

 

[DieH@rd]

Because both systems are pushing SOCs really really far, and they're not mature manufacturing processes at all. Also, they're both huge chips.

Nope. Judging by the CPU and GPU [and heftly room for special units], both Orbit and Django have <300mm2 chips. New high end radeons are 400mm2, and the 28 manufacturing process is "solved". Yields are great.

The only problem may arise from inserting 32MB of ESRAM.

 

[derFeef]

So when is MS finished with those rumors and leak their thing prior to plan?

 

[googleplex]

Orbis

Durango

WiiU

Oh god lol!

 

[Proelite]

There's a big difference this time around, and it's that the consoles are made from virtually identical components. The CPUs seem to be literally identical, and the GPUs are built around the same architecture. The RAM situation is different, and there may be bells and whistles here and there, but Orbis and Durango are far more comparable than PS3 and 360 ever were.

GPU's are not the same.

There is a reason MS is calling their units shader cores and not compute units.

They're maximized for graphics.

 

[JoexBLU]

Orbis: specs still only a rumor.
Durango: specs still only a rumor.
Wii U: specs are real

 

[oversitting]

Current DDR3 contract price is ~$17/4GB. Let's assume Microsoft can get a good bulk deal, which means 8GB of DDR3 will cost $25~$30.

There's unfortunately not a lot of information on GDDR5 costs. However, based on various prices of GDDR5 graphics cards (and comparing them to other memory configurations), I'd guess that 4GB of GDDR5 would cost between $70~$100. Correct me if I'm way off here.

you are a bit off, it costs about $10 for 1gb GDDR at consumer level. (2gb cards vs 1gb cards of the same model.) so total 4gb would probably be less than $30 for sony to buy in bulk.

DDR3 is just about half that price.

overall 8gb ddr3 should cost about the same as 4gb Gddr5.

 

[Tagg9]

So when is MS finished with those rumors and leak their thing prior to plan?

Say what?

 

[MVP]

Orbis

Durango

WiiU

LMAO

 

[nasos_333]

I am new to these forums and do not really understand all this tech talk. Reading from some of the comments above it seems to that the general consensus is that Orbis is more powerful than Durango. Is my assumption right? ( I know that these are just rumours though).

From the rumored specs, and in raw power terms, yes

In reality though could be either way and both will deliver some spectacular games for sure

 

[Jadedx]

Orbis = Lady Gaga. Looks good on paper; will be as average as the competition.

Durango = Madonna. Versatile. The Data Move engine is the talent and dignity that Lady Gaga doesn't posses.

Wii U = Christina Aguilera. Hilarious and bloated.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!

Spoiler

I agree with talent though.

 

[Ashes]

GPU's are not the same.

There is a reason MS is calling their units shader cores and not compute units.

They're maximized for graphics.

Fair enough.

 

[JoexBLU]

Call of Duty too

Mario Kart is not multiplatform

 

[grimshawish]

Orbis

Durango

WiiU

Shut the thread down. Were done here.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

Nope. 256gbs internally to rops. It was less than 102GB/s to the outside.

I did note that on my original post, though maybe the daughter die bit was awry - internal bandwith to ROPS was what I was driving at.

but the 10MB EDRAM on 360 provided a whopping 256GB/s bandwidth to the GPU (daughter die straight to ROPS)

My point was, that the benefit that was touted for Xenos EDRAM was the 256 GB/s internal bandwidth to ROPS, so why wouldn't the ESRAM in Durango have some similar high bandwidth internally?

Essentially maybe we aren't getting the full bandwidth picture?

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

There would be no reason not to offer a kinect-free sku to undercut their competitors on price. Especially since it seems that the hdd is mandatory now and MS has juggled with up to 5 skus simultaneously in the past few years.

I don't think Kinect actually costs that much to produce. I think kinect 2.0 be bundled all systems. It's a key product for MS in their company wide strategy.

Also, people are kidding themselves if they don't think Sony will pack in a "value add" feature.

 

[oversitting]

Orbis: specs still only a rumor.
Durango: specs still only a rumor.
Wii U: specs are impossible to find and what we do have is still rumor.

Fixed.

 

[Jadedx]

GPU's are not the same.

There is a reason MS is calling their units shader cores and not compute units.

They're maximized for graphics.

Proelite I like you so much, if only you weren't a brony...

 

[Karak]

Also the esram will be able to communicate more directly than the edram on the 360. One of the major dev complaints.

Awesome custom stuff on that GPU though some of it is a bit confusing still to me even after 3 days.

 

[davious88]

I'm okay with these specs.

PGR4 is a stunning game still, and a system with 5-8 times the power well pump out some impressive games.

I'll be there day zero if this launches at $399 or below.

PGR won't, sadly.

 

[Pagusas]

I wonder if we will get Backwards compatibility. Thoughts? I'd rather give up BC and get a stronger system at a decent price, then have it and lose some specs to accommodate old needs.

 

[Windom Earle]

Orbis:

Durango:

Wii U:

 

[metalslimer]

Orbis: specs still only a rumor.
Durango: specs still only a rumor.
Wii U: specs are real

Actually, for a console that has been out for months we know hilariously little about the Wii U's GPU.

 

[Biggzy]

Orbis:

Durango:

Wii U:

Nicely done.

 

[Reiko]

Also the esram will be able to communicate more directly than the edram on the 360. One of the major dev complaints.

Time for some bandwidth sapping RAIN in Forza.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

GPU's are not the same.

There is a reason MS is calling their units shader cores and not compute units.

They're maximized for graphics.

And CUs in cutting edge GPUs aren't "maximized for graphics"?

 

[derFeef]

Well I guess I am finished here since it's unreadable with those gifs and images. Ugh.

 

[Desty]

Something regarding the ESRAM doesn't add up.

At least this time they can store 1280x720 with 4x MSAA in the embedded memory.
Still not enough to do 1080p with 4x MSAA though.