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[gofreak]

I'm going to look genuinely stupid now... but oh well.

Why is bandwidth so important given the relatively small size of the ESRAM? Surely you'd be limited by the size of the memory before you'd be limited by your ability to ship data to / from it.

Not necessarily with ROPs, where you have a lot of bandwidth consumption mapping to relatively small areas of memory. Well, we thought that ROPs in Durango would be relatively unconstrained by bandwidth as they were in Xenos (256GB/s). And that this would give it the same relative advantages and allow it to excel in some cases, where you were bound by buffer bandwidth or buffer processing.

But now it looks like you have 170GB/s of bandwidth to use, where 102GB/s is shuffling to and from 32MB and 65GB/s to the rest.

It is 'worse' than I thought before...before I saw strengths and weaknesses vs Orbis, now I see weakness and added complexity for the sake of main memory capacity.

 

[davious88]

Orbis = Pulp Fiction
Durango = Reservoir Dogs
Wii U = Death Proof

Except deathproof was quality.

 

[Reiko]

I was informed it would be in the system.

Megaton?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

That's a sarcastic tag, if I am correct.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

Sony, all you need now is a better controller (just copy the 360 controller) and we become best friends.

 

[Baconsammy]

So the people on GAF that are privy to next-gen specs and insider info, have you heard more about Durango or Orbis? Because it seems like the former, but I'm curious.

From the sound of it, third party devs have been much more excited to talk about the next Xbox. This could possibly just be because Sony has been slack in getting them dev hardware/tools.

 

[aegies]

I was informed it would be in the system.

I can only second this by saying they are internally very positive that backwards compatibility is very important for the first iteration or two of the hardware. So I'm guessing that means they'll pin it to specific hardware that can be eliminated to reduce cost as time goes on.

 

[intheinbetween]

next-gen console wars incoming!!! can't wait to taste it

 

[derFeef]

Megaton?

Nah, floating around a while now. MS would be silly letting XBLA slip.

 

[Gorillaz]

So the people on GAF that are privy to next-gen specs and insider info, have you heard more about Durango or Orbis? Because it seems like the former, but I'm curious.

Most people on here seem to have had a good amount on MS and little on Sony..Until a month ago for some reason which confused me alot since since I remember alot of them saying they wouldnt get info anytime soon(paraphasing)

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

next-gen console wars incoming!!! can't wait to taste it

It has already started. When GAF population goes out of control, It's a required necessity to balance the users. *conspiracy*.

 

[jetjevons]

Except deathproof was quality.

Even if it's director didn't seem to think so.

 

[Karak]

Megaton?

Only if Orbis doesn't have it. But I was informed AGAIN, on Friday,that it was in for Durango, and it was the same time I got much of the other information. A good deal about just game stuff and other random things.

 

[androvsky]

Not necessarily with ROPs, where you have a lot of bandwidth consumption mapping to relatively small areas of memory. Well, we thought that ROPs in Durango would be relatively unconstrained by bandwidth as they were in Xenos (256GB/s). And that this would give it the same relative advantages and allow it to excel in some cases, where you were bound by buffer bandwidth or buffer processing.

But now it looks like you have 170GB/s of bandwidth to use, where 102GB/s is shuffling to and from 32MB and 65GB/s to the rest.

It is 'worse' than I thought before...before I saw strengths and weaknesses vs Orbis, now I see weakness and added complexity for the sake of main memory capacity.

The scary thing is even if you add up the ESRAM and DDR3 it's still slower than the rumored main memory of the Orbis, which makes me feel like I'm missing something important.

 

[scently]

I was informed it would be in the system.

Hey Karak, what about the post you promised? are you going to post it?

 

[Hana-Bi]

Sony, all you need now is a better controller (just copy the 360 controller) and we become best friends.

Sony will not look over the ocean for their controller. First the Move and now we'll have a WiiU like controller.

 

[mugurumakensei]

That's a sarcastic tag, if I am correct.

Always hard to tell with tags. Although, Id assume mods would ban him rather than give him a tag if he wasnt entirely truthful about where he gets info.

 

[gofreak]

BTW, on those data move engines, I'm wondering if they're there to help coordinate different threads and signal data between cpu and gpu also, to reduce latency in those communications. Like maybe using hardware data queue control. It's stuff you can do in sw with relevant api access to the gpu etc. but it might be nice to have an independent hardware support for that.

(I'm guessing about this based on a little patent googling...)

 

[ThisWreckage]

I think Sony should not include stuff like HDMI in right now which will only increase costs. Keep the price low and see how the market reacts. If there is a demand for this then they can always add that functionality in the future units right?

HDMI in is going to be a feature that very few people will care about. It will also increase the price of the console. I honestly believe most people simply want to play games with their friends. I also think the inclusion of Kinect 2.0 is going to make the console pricier as well. It wouldn't shock me if this thing ends up more expensive than the PS4.

 

[Quicksilver4648]

A couple of things.

• I am VERY glad that a hard drive is standard on all consoles. But it sucks that it will only be SATA 2.0 and not 3.0. I would have liked to have the option of buying an SSD.
• While I certainly like the amount of RAM I just hope the fact that it is DDR3 doesn't overly limit it in high-end games.
• GIGABIT Ethernet, this makes me happy.
• Does anyone know/think that Durango's Wireless N WiFi will be dual-band as well?
• HDMI In? Okay, this console has some software secrets that I am fully ready to be unveiled.

Overall I am excited for the new generation and I eagerly await what the PS4 has. While the rumors so far are probably true, Sony has the chance to potentially offer some very impressive hardware (comparatively).

 

[Baconsammy]

So now BC is a definite? That makes the decision a lot easier. Keeping my XBLA library intact is huge.

 

[Karak]

Hey Karak, what about the post you promised? are you going to post it?

Much of it was this. Hence all my confusion.

I have some bits I will throw in here. I will just separate it from my many hours of Guessing what the hell any custom hardware did or does.

A couple of things.

HDMI In? Okay, this console has some software secrets that I am fully ready to be unveiled.

The main thing I am excited for ahahahaha

 

[Jadedx]

Not necessarily with ROPs, where you have a lot of bandwidth consumption mapping to relatively small areas of memory. Well, we thought that ROPs in Durango would be relatively unconstrained by bandwidth as they were in Xenos (256GB/s). And that this would give it the same relative advantages and allow it to excel in some cases, where you were bound by buffer bandwidth or buffer processing.

But now it looks like you have 170GB/s of bandwidth to use, where 102GB/s is shuffling to and from 32MB and 65GB/s to the rest.

It is 'worse' than I thought before...before I saw strengths and weaknesses vs Orbis, now I see weakness and added complexity for the sake of main memory capacity.

Well one of the DMEs are supposed to help with that and the devs are supposed to be very happy with it. What's the problem?

 

[StevieP]

I really don't think you should wish that, you would come off as rather foolish in earlier RAM discussions.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I wasn't expecting 2 of the 3 8th generation consoles to be using DDR3 as a base. Nor were most.

Things change when you see the sheets.

I think mods ought to change your tag. Because you were pretty much spot on with most things lol.

I've grown to like my tag. It allows me to say whatever I want
lol

 

[Psychotext]

HDMI in is going to be a feature that very few people will care about. It will also increase the price of the console.

For some reason I get the feeling that you've just invoked Jeff Rigby.

 

[Proelite]

BTW, on those data move engines, I'm wondering if they're there to help coordinate different threads and signal data between cpu and gpu also, to reduce latency in those communications. Like maybe using hardware data queue control. It's stuff you can do in sw with relevant api access to the gpu etc. but it might be nice to have an independent hardware support for that.

(I'm guessing about this based on a little patent googling...)

Nope. I suggest you to stop trying.

 

[oversitting]

That's a sarcastic tag, if I am correct.

Well, Its not so sarcastic by all the things he says. Some of its accurate but a lot of it is also completely just not even remotely on point.

 

[TalesOfWin]

So is this good or bad for what we expect?

8GB of RAM. This is the best spec of this console.

 

[Ashes]

Once again there was a big gulf in terms of alpha kits and beta kits for Durango on paper. The Alpha kits were needed to emulate the final performance of the combined silicon.

Alpha kits were

8 core 16 thread intel CPUs, probably running at 1.6 ghz
12GB of Ram
High end AMD 7000 series >2.5 teraflop GPU

7000? not 6000?

Intel 8 core? xeon?

 

[thiswasavailable]

So the people on GAF that are privy to next-gen specs and insider info, have you heard more about Durango or Orbis? Because it seems like the former, but I'm curious.

I'm not claiming to be an insider if insider means I work in the games publishing or development industry. (or media for that matter)

I think it is fair to say that is way more info on Durango out there than Orbis.

However, I think there has been more confusion about Durango than Orbis. Orbis info seems to be generally more accurate / less confused.

I don't think you need to be an insider to see this however, you need only have been paying close attention.

 

[Proelite]

7000? not 6000?

Intel 8 core? xeon?

Yep.

Alpha kits had 780 watt power supply.

 

[TheOddOne]

Once again there was a big gulf in terms of alpha kits and beta kits for Durango on paper. The Alpha kits were needed to emulate the final performance of the combined silicon.

Alpha kits were

8 core 16 thread intel CPUs, probably running at 1.6 ghz
12GB of Ram
High end AMD 7000 series >2.5 teraflop GPU

What the what.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

HDMI in is going to be a feature that very few people will care about. It will also increase the price of the console. I honestly believe most people simply want to play games with their friends. I also think the inclusion of Kinect 2.0 is going to make the console pricier as well. It wouldn't shock me if this thing ends up more expensive than the PS4.

Eh. Having a port doesn't increase the price of console in any way. In fact, it'll make Microsoft more money as they can sell accessories like Cable box or other devices that are directly compatible with Durango, especially when HDMI devices can be controlled and communicate with each other.

 

[Hana-Bi]

Are there any controller rumors for Durango?

 

[Desty]

It means a dev could theoretically put some frequently accessed (small) assets into eSRAM and read from them there rather than from DDR3. You couldn't do this on Xenos.

It also means you could keep a buffer or two on eSRAM for sampling in subsequent render passes rather than copying out to DDR3 and waiting.

But there's compromises here too. It's really interesting that they did this.

Yes, this sounds promising. You could put things like hair on a head or grass blades on a hill which get transformed a bazillion times. Instead of reaching out to ram to fetch textures, etc. Just put it all in there. Definitely needed for some next genny characters.

 

[Kagari]

I can only second this by saying they are internally very positive that backwards compatibility is very important for the first iteration or two of the hardware. So I'm guessing that means they'll pin it to specific hardware that can be eliminated to reduce cost as time goes on.

So like the PS3?
I wonder if Sony will do the same with some sort of Cell/RSX in the early PS4 models.

 

[Quazar]

Karak have you heard what direction they're going for games? Why does it seem their is always something missing from these specs? It's as if they're going a new route rather than just an upgrade in graphics. Maybe their own Rift?

 

[Karak]

Are there any controller rumors for Durango?

For me...none.
That is odd. But none. They will have one. Its NOT Kinect only. But no solid info at all.

Karak have you heard what direction they're going for games?

Sure. It was reiterated to me that MS was fully behind doing everything the same like they did in the first few years of the Xbox 360 and that MS knows that is what got them a good deal of backing when the system first came out. That is the 4th or 5th time I was informed that.
I was told there is a very even split between new IP's and faithful IP's. And 3-4 big surprises.

 

[MrCunningham]

Except deathproof was quality.

One of the best car chase sequences ever committed to film.

I always liked Reservoir Dogs more than Pulp Fiction, by the way...

 

[aegies]

BTW, on those data move engines, I'm wondering if they're there to help coordinate different threads and signal data between cpu and gpu also, to reduce latency in those communications. Like maybe using hardware data queue control. It's stuff you can do in sw with relevant api access to the gpu etc. but it might be nice to have an independent hardware support for that.

(I'm guessing about this based on a little patent googling...)

That's not what the move engines are for.

 

[Thraktor]

I can only second this by saying they are internally very positive that backwards compatibility is very important for the first iteration or two of the hardware. So I'm guessing that means they'll pin it to specific hardware that can be eliminated to reduce cost as time goes on.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have two versions of the console; a cheaper one with no BC and a more expensive one with a 360 CPU/GPU chip incorporated to provide full BC. Doing full hardware BC a-la first-gen PS3s seems like an excessive cost to include in every console, as not every player will actually use it.

 

[ThisWreckage]

For the life of me, I have never understood why people like backwards compatibility so much. I had an 80 GB Metal Gears Solid 4 PS3 and I think played maybe two PS2 games on the system since I've owned it. I buy new consoles to play new games.

 

[gofreak]

The scary thing is even if you add up the ESRAM and DDR3 it's still slower than the rumored main memory of the Orbis, which makes me feel like I'm missing something important.

Capacity at an affordable cost.

Messy, but this would appear to have been their priority.

That's not what the move engines are for.

Thanks. I'm as curious to find out what they do as anyone...do they have anything to do with the relatively large amount of CPU cache?

 

[Lambda Pie]

For me...none.
That is odd. But none. They will have one. Its NOT Kinect only. But no solid info at all.

i feel it's gonna be traditional controller + Kinect.

 

[intheinbetween]

It has already started. When GAF population goes out of control, It's a required necessity to balance the users. *conspiracy*.

not quite yet, this is just the prelude that will lead to a hilarious story

 

[derFeef]

For the life of me, I have never understood why people like backwards compatibility so much. I had an 80 GB Metal Gears Solid 4 PS3 and I think played maybe two PS2 games on the system since I've owned it. I buy new consoles to play new games.

With PSN and XBLA, it's a bit different I guess.

 

[Ace 8095]

Pre launch rumors make me so happy.

 

[aegies]

Are there any controller rumors for Durango?

I have heard shit that is easily as insane as anything for Orbis.

 

[Ashes]

Yep.

Alpha kits had 780 watt power supply.

Hmm..

Colour me intrigued.

Careful, your word once lost, is lost forever on gaf it seems.

 

[Proelite]

What the what.

People are too attached to GPU teraflops, they only tell you 10%-20% of the story.