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[Trogdor1123]

People who base their purchasing decision on 'perceived power' had no interest in the 'other' system to begin with, their choice was made before any information was made available.

Well thats not true necessarily, some people just want to get teh system that will more likely provide them with the best possible games, which as you right say is what they should be excited for.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Looking at that VGleaks diagram again, I think they fucked up some f the custom hardware stuff. Specifically, there's a hardware block that they don't describe, pertaining to... well. I don't want to get anybody in trouble.

Relating to BC.

 

[gaming_noob]

What are those studios?

New studios formed by MS in British Columbia. Their goal is to create "AAA" games but that's as far as we know.
Edit: this thread is moving too fast. I'll just sit back and read....

 

[Kagari]

People have been ignoring the 6x speed blu ray drive. Isn't that relatively worse than even the PS3's BD drive which massively hampered the console?

Isn't PS3 1x?

 

[aegies]

Relating to BC.

No.

 

[MisterNoisy]

That's for sure. Sony first party, Remedy and MS's secret games excite me.

I hate to say that Sony's first party games that aren't Gran Turismo are actually detrimental to the brand, but they are.

 

[Jadedx]

What are those studios?

New studios from MS in canada, talent from Ubisoft, Ea and others.

 

[AuthenticM]

People have been ignoring the 6x speed blu ray drive. Isn't that relatively worse than even the PS3's BD drive which massively hampered the console?

What ? The PS3's blu-ray drive is of 2x speed made with 2005 tech.

 

[Durante]

Isn't PS3 1x?

I think by "relative" he means relative to the amount of memory that needs to be filled. Which is only a valid comparison up to a point.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Broce pls

Good games only

Hahaha my poor Alan.

 

[meta4]

New first party studios MS has set up along side 343, in the past couple of years, Black Tusk was formerly MS Vancouver.

Ah gotcha. So they should be involved with some launch titles for next gen. Interesting..

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Now that the entire world knows about Durango's 'magic sauce', what prevents Sony from using it too?

Wait.


What's the secret sauce? EDRAM?

 

[nib95]

+100 to StevieP's credibility and -500 to thuway who'se authoritative arrogant demeanor already didn't instill much confidence.

But Thuway was also right on most things....way before most of the others....

 

[oversitting]

Should be 192 SP MADDs per clock in the pixel shaders, like G70. If we count each as two FLOPs (like seems to be the mode of the recent Durango quotes), that's 192GFLOPs/s. Plus whatever the vertex units contribute.

edit: wait ... it's 500MHz, right?

wikipedia quotes:

400GFLOPs - ps3
240GFLOPs- 360

Not as comparable but still something to keep note.

 

[GayForMaster]

Nintendo is fucked... That's what they get for releasing a 2006 gen console in 2012.

 

[Wynnebeck]

What ? The PS3's blu-ray drive is a 2x speed made with 2005 tech.

Forgive me if I missed it but if MS is aiming for 6x speed, what is Sony going for? Hopefully more then that?

 

[tinfoilhatman]

Relating to BC.

MS shouldn't need any special hardware to achieve BC , it should be able to be done through emulation just like 360>XBox.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

Looking at that VGleaks diagram again, I think they fucked up some f the custom hardware stuff. Specifically, there's a hardware block that they don't describe, pertaining to... well. I don't want to get anybody in trouble.

aegies.....y u du dis?

 

[Satchel]

I assume the ESRAM is there to make up for the fact that its using DDR3?

This thing seems more than capable.

 

[Jadedx]

Looking at that VGleaks diagram again, I think they fucked up some f the custom hardware stuff. Specifically, there's a hardware block that they don't describe, pertaining to... well. I don't want to get anybody in trouble.

Awwww, why u do dis?

 

[TheGreyHulk]

RSX was a downgrade.

no, it was an upgrade from a 2nd cell being used as a GPU that would have cost more and done less than the RSX which is greater than the original cell at rendering graphics. Sony thought Cell would be capable of graphics, but didn't like what they saw and shoe horned the RSX in as an upgrade from the horrible Cell gpu performance.


anywho..

unless M$ does something magical with their system or architecture, i'm going to roll with Sony next gen. they sound like they have the more powerful system and that's all i give a f about right now.

 

[Baconsammy]

Isn't PS3 1x?

I think the PS3 uses a 2x.

 

[Dreaver]

Hey Karak ,aegies and others!
I have been wondering about something that I can not get an answer to. (That is where you guys come in)

Is it possible that Microsoft could release different SKU. By different I mean hardware wise.
Think of it like a mid and high end PC. Both can run and play Crysis 3 but it different settings.

One with ultra and one with high graphic performance.

The question is: Could MS do that? is it doable? Is it possible ?

I would appreciate your answer.
Pardon my English

I am not a tech guy or am the to answer it, but I'll tell you what I think:
I don't think it would happen. There's also not a point for it really as the X360 will serve as the cheaper, old Xbox (I think a lot of games will get X360 ports in the beginning).

There WERE rumors for a "Xbox entertainment box" I believe. Like a mediabox without the hardcore gaming stuff.

 

[i-Lo]

Except thuway and Proelite are probably the ones with the most accurate info here.

And they both give off the vibe of preferring what MS is doing. Guess Sony am cry.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Two things:

1) Special sauce has got to be one of the most stupid phrases that has come out in a long time. Tremendously stupid.

2) All of these insiders are like little children with their constant teasing, selective interjections, and, "I know a lot, but I can't say anything" jargon.

 

[Razgreez]

Awwww, why u do dis?

He's shifting focus, deliberately

 

[iamshadowlark]

Honestly the "data move engines" don't sound like much at all. Especially looking at the hardware map. I wouldn't put too much thought into them.

Honestly I want to hear more about sony and their extra compute unit. It seems like more of a game changer. Maybe they snuck some SIMD power in there?

 

[Biggzy]

no, it was an upgrade from a 2nd cell being used as a GPU that would have cost more and done less than the RSX which is greater than the original cell at rendering graphics. Sony thought Cell would be capable of graphics, but didn't like what they saw and shoe horned the RSX in as an upgrade from the horrible Cell gpu performance.


anywho..

unless M$ does something magical with their system or architecture, i'm going to roll with Sony next gen. they sound like they have the more powerful system and that's all i give a f about right now.

Also using a second cell for the GPU would have made the PS3 even more complicated to develop for, so it was a good job they opted for the RSX.

 

[pixlexic]

I think the PS3 uses a 2x.

And that was way too slow to feed 512 megs of ram. Now we have 6x for 3 gigs plus?

( stating 3 gigs as the lowest standard for a game)

 

[Ken Masters]

can someone dumb down this tech talk for me?

 

[JonathanPower]

ROPS are not in esram this time around.

I don't think that's possible, the eDRAM is there to "feed" the ROPS, and thus the ROPS must be in the same logic of the eDRAM in order to have them connected with a hi-speed bus.

 

[Rolf NB]

Isn't PS3 1x?

2x. 9MByte/s sustained (CLV).

I think the point was, to fill 16 times the memory inside the same time frame (=load times), you'd need a drive 16 times as fast, too.
But this really shouldn't be a problem with modern streaming architectures.

 

[mrklaw]

Well PS3 exclusives did end up looking noticeably better so maybe there was something to that.

What matters though, as this gen showed, is who gets the majority of the support. When everything is leading on 360 it wouldn't have mattered if PS3 was 100 times more powerful.

Why is it assumed that Multiplatform games will just be indentical? PC versions of Multiplatform games look better than console. If there are certain areas where the different consoles excel, they might be tapped. Eg PS4 might get more FPS, Durango might get higher res textures (random made up examples).

 

[Master_JO]

Not in the way you're suggesting.

What do you mean? Is there another way to it? And please tell me, Why is it not doable?
thnx Aegies

 

[Can Crusher]

Someone posted this earlier but it really isn't saying much here. No flops don't mean everything but there are alot of other areas where PS4 seems to have an advantage. Bandwidth, latency, ROPS, etc

Really, explain more please. Because last time around you started trying to put words in ERP's post, and you didn't look too good.

So, just bombard us with the info you possess, and show all these other areas where PS4 has an advantage(it even merited an etc)?

 

[thiswasavailable]

No.

No idea what you are getting at but I'm going to guess the Kinect image processor since we know that is in this time and isn't shown?

 

[infinityBCRT]

Looking at that VGleaks diagram again, I think they fucked up some f the custom hardware stuff. Specifically, there's a hardware block that they don't describe, pertaining to... well. I don't want to get anybody in trouble.

HANA/ANA/scaler?

 

[B.O.O.M]

So I guess they will do an article on Orbis next week then? :S long wait

 

[Kagari]

I think the PS3 uses a 2x.

Ah yep... still slow.

 

[derFeef]

can someone dumb down this tech talk for me?

Somewhat weaker tech with a special setup that seem to make up for the compromises.
I guess.

 

[Jadedx]

Two things:

1) Special sauce has got to be one of the most stupid phrases that has come out in a long time. Tremendously stupid.

2) All of these insiders are like little children with their constant teasing, selective interjections, and, "I know a lot, but I can't say anything" jargon.

Because they don't want to give away their sources, because if you do that not only can you get someone fired, but no one will trust you again.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

So I guess they will do an article on Orbis next week then? :S long wait

I doubt they'd wait a whole week for the Orbis specs. Someone might get in on it before them (even though it kind of already happened).

 

[davious88]

What do you mean? Is there another way to it? And please tell me, Why is it not doable?
thnx Aegies

SKU A: Console
B: STB

 

[thuway]

And they both give off the vibe of preferring what MS is doing. Guess Sony am cry.

I give preference to no one. I love my Sony exclusives, and I love Xbox Live. Bitchesbecrazy?

 

[grimshawish]

Going to stop discussing in this thread. One person am not trusting but I'll keep an eye on what they say I suppose. Maybe am being unfair; they just seem a mix of all over the place and constantly introducing new points of discussion.

I do have to ask though; where is the exclusive Polygon article detailing the fantastic information thats being so openly discussed by one of its staff in this thread? Who so openly declares another publication of getting the scoop wrong.

Just to deal with my curiosity.

 

[KageMaru]

But unless they somehow did more "customization" than what happens in 2 entire GPU generations (or one of them actually customized it to be less efficient), a 50% efficiency gap just seems incredibly unlikely.

Not getting into which is supposedly more powerful, but comparisons with PC GPUs may not be valid depending on the level of customization done to this GPU. When you make a DX11 GPU, you design around the limitations of the API, no such limitations exist on consoles if budget provides.

Hey Karak ,aegies and others!
I have been wondering about something that I can not get an answer to. (That is where you guys come in)

Is it possible that Microsoft could release different SKU. By different I mean hardware wise.
Think of it like a mid and high end PC. Both can run and play Crysis 3 but it different settings.

One with ultra and one with high graphic performance.

The question is: Could MS do that? is it doable? Is it possible ?

I would appreciate your answer.
Pardon my English

They could, but they would be foolish to do so. By supporting multiple hardware configs, you're essentially limiting how close they can optimize their games. Budgets are already being watched, manpower is going to be spread over three separate systems (Durango, PS4, PC), I don't think adding a fourth hardware config would really benefit anyone. It could hinder the optimization for both platforms if MS had both systems supported by the same API, so it would be similar to what we see with the PC now.

On top of the issues with development and support, it costs a lot of money to launch and market a system. So their attention and marketing budgets would be split. Not to mention, consumer confusion would likely happen, biting them in the ass.

I would be less gutsy about Durango after this info, if anything. The number of cases where it ought to have an advantage narrowed vs what I figured previously.

Of course we don't know everything...

Everyone seems to be pretty gutsy in this thread. I think some things will become clear closer to launch.

Now that the entire world knows about Durango's 'magic sauce', what prevents Sony from using it too?

Console development doesn't work in the way that you can just add on features whenever you want. Even if Durango had something unique, unless Sony wants to delay their system by a year, there is nothing they can do about it.

 

[aegies]

HANA/ANA/scaler?

That's separate. There is a new scaler.

Going to stop discussing in this thread. One person am not trusting but I'll keep an eye on what they say I suppose. Maybe am being unfair; they just seem a mix of all over the place and constantly introducing new points of discussion.

I do have to ask though; where is the exclusive Polygon article detailing the fantastic information thats being so openly discussed by one of its staff in this thread? Who so openly declares another publication of getting the scoop wrong.

Just to deal with my curiosity.

I have different standards for tidbits that I'll discuss on a message board versus what we run on the site, and as should be clear, I don't even know what I know, if that makes any sense. What good is that for our readers?

 

[Ashes]

Well, it looks like they just tried to rid themselves of bottlenecks.. hope it works as well as they think it will.

I wonder if they had the balls to customise the jaguar cores heavily too like that pre fetch or something somebody mentioned before.

Alright, that's enough excitement for me for one night... catch you folks later...

 

[ThisWreckage]

Because they don't want to give away their sources, because if you do that not only can you get someone fired, but no one will trust you again.

Then they should simply be quiet. It's trumpeting a mute horn.

 

[Baconsammy]

Am I wrong in assuming that based on the specs and features that Microsoft intends for Durango to be an always-on device?