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[thiswasavailable]

Listen boys, I have an international flight to attend to, so I am about to sign off, but please, do not ever, put words in my mouth.

I have said this over and over again. Different engines will prefer either more bandwith or more memory. If your instincts are trying to tell you I have made a judgement on which system is more powerful, than you are wrong. This is a case by case scenario, if we look at things on paper, which only tells us 1/3rd of the story.

Man up folks, it's a long time till launch.

I'm going to go right out on a limb early and say that more RAM = more powerful in this generation.

The best graphics this generation will be enabled by using more RAM for pre-computed elements and etc. Developers will find a way to hog all that memory and when they have, they will learn to use it better and better as time goes on. More RAM means longer legs this generation, since most everything else will end up a wash.

Both the 360 and PS3 were short on RAM, those system could go further if they had more of it. A 1GB leg up this gen will make a big difference because bandwidth will be a wash.

 

[Takuya]

What will happen if we connect Durango's HDMI OUT with Durango's HDMI IN?

If the HDMI IN is for PVR functionality, then, theoretically, you should be able to record your own gameplay... How you know wtf you're doing in game is another question.

 

[meta4]

Off-topic but this was posted in the Orbis Controller thread: http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publ...KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20121213&DB=&locale=en_EP

Someone needs to translate it cause this looks awesomely weird.

Da faq is this? Source legit?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

What will happen if we connect Durango's HDMI OUT with Durango's HDMI IN?

 

[Jadedx]

hdd dont stop loads. There are still plenty of long load times on the ps3 with games installed. Plus you still get those micro pauses from content loading in.

though durangos massive amount ram should knock that right out.

It speeds them up depending on how fast the HDD is and how well optimized the game is for streaming off the hdd.

 

[pixlexic]

I'll laugh, and cry, if the HDMI-in port is the backwards compatibility option. "There ya go, suckers!"

HDMI in port with a label BC above it. lol

 

[Krakatoa]

Have we seen any mockups on what it may look like?

Please MS no more face plates. The planet can't take any more plastic crap!!

 

[Spongebob]

The bandwidth and latency advantages are already apparent with GDDR5 vs DDR3.

DDR3 has lower latency than GDDR5.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Da faq is this? Source legit?

European Patent Office. As legit as it can get. Translate it, people!

 

[CorrisD]

Are Microsoft and Sony not worried about customer outrage should they not have access to their digital libraries next gen? *sigh*

I think these companies would like to let us play everything we own, but sometimes it isn't possible without blowing the cost of the product through the roof and having to rely on old technology that isn't economical to support for another generation.

But who knows, they couldn't do PS2 emulation properly on PS3 hardware for 5 years into its lifecycle, I think the Cell is really just the big problem going forward with playing PS3 games, but then Sony did get that patent for an add-on device that would allow newer hardware to play older games by containing what was missing, the Cell for instance in this occasion.

 

[enzo_gt]

So Orbis is a bit more powerful?

Spoiler

according to kanye west albums

My man.

 

[Darkkn]

So, is my i5 2500k, GTX660 PC setup obsolete when games are made to this level of hardware?

For some reason, the leaked specs do not seem that amazing to me. Hopefully Sony goes balls deep on crazy tech. Hopefully Sony does not have a peripheral that takes significant resources away from gaming like Kinect does.

 

[Kagari]

I'll laugh, and cry, if the HDMI-in port is the backwards compatibility option. "There ya go, suckers!"

It's likely for connecting cable boxes in.

 

[mrklaw]

The original 6670 next gen console rumor last year was accurate, and it was Orbis. That's changed. Microsoft had longer to work on their final design. It's more custom.

The comparisons to the PS3 aren't necessarily inaccurate, I think. Durango's architecture is more exotic than Orbis by all indications. I just think, based on Microsoft's dev history and general developer sentiment, that Microsoft has Durango's development environment more on lockdown than Sony had with the PS3.

So Sony did the last minute thing again? Although at least they seem to have boosted a couple of things (ram, GPU) which is good news otherwise they'd have been slaughtered.

It sounds like MS had a look at all the cool stuff in DirectX that hadn't been interpreted or supported 'properly' by AMD/Nvidia and took the opportunity to craft the hardware how they thought it should work as an ideal companion to DX?

 

[Always-honest]

What will happen if we connect Durango's HDMI OUT with Durango's HDMI IN?

Infinite power.

 

[Rolf NB]

DDR3 has lower latency than GDDR5.

If you measure them in clocks, sure. But GDDR5 clocks proportionally higher, making the absolute delay a wash. So basically, nope.

 

[derFeef]

European Patent Office. As legit as it can get. Translate it, people!

I can't make sense of any of those, lol.

 

[Quazar]

Has Thuwway always called BS on Karak or is this something new? Karak comes off as genuine, just seems scared to say to much.

 

[Proelite]

It sounds like MS had a look at all the cool stuff in DirectX that hadn't been interpreted or supported 'properly' by AMD/Nvidia and took the opportunity to craft the hardware how they thought it should work as an ideal companion to DX?

The Directx Team drove everything.

 

[Karma]

It's likely for connecting cable boxes in.

Yes, will allow for overlay on your TV. While watching TV you can still get your messages and game invites.

 

[Jadedx]

I can't make sense of any of those, lol.

Looks to me like a mix of the detachable dual shock and the ps vita controller mock up.

 

[Limit]

All of these insiders are like little children with their constant teasing, selective interjections, and, "I know a lot, but I can't say anything" jargon.

I concur. It's quite immature.

 

[Backfoggen]

European Patent Office. As legit as it can get. Translate it, people!

Okay, I'll take the Dual Shock again after all.

 

[BlackJace]

Does GAF crucify those who's info turns out to be false after the reveals?

 

[OverHeat]

The Directx Team drove everything.

 

[Karak]

Has Thuwway always called BS on Karak or is this something new? Karak comes off as genuine, just seems scared to say to much.

I have been pretty clear about my source not being the same type of person as some of these others guys. Even I question him and have gone on the record as questioning him in various threads.

If he is wrong he is wrong. But he has been spot on for enough stuff that I pass on what I get. HDMI passthrough, dates for announcements stuff like that. But he isn't near as technical as these folks. I have no problems with people questioning the information.

 

[beast786]

If the HDMI IN is for PVR functionality, then, theoretically, you should be able to record your own gameplay... How you know wtf you're doing in game is another question.

HDMI Out to HDMI Splitter One to TV other Durango

 

[i-Lo]

The Directx Team drove everything.

That is most intriguing.

 

[Takuya]

HDMI Out to HDMI Splitter One to TV other Durango

Encryption.

 

[Kimawolf]

Does GAF crucify those who's info turns out to be false after the reveals?

Well there was a guy during the Wii prelaunch who claimed to have lots of insider knowledge and said all this stuff about what they were going to launch at e3 that year and how powerful the Wii was then it launched and he was wrong and got shamed badly. For the life of me I can't remember his name.

 

[Backfoggen]

What if we plug in Orbis into Dujango? Instant XBL ban?

 

[pr0cs]

What will happen if we connect Durango's HDMI OUT with Durango's HDMI IN?

Inception

It's all starting to make sense with the 8s then.

 

[pixlexic]

Inception

It's all starting to make sense with the 8s then.

conception

 

[Lord Error]

Sounds pretty good, close to what everyone's been rumoring lately. ESRAM seems kinda slow, no? GDDR5 is generally much faster than that nowadays.

 

[oversitting]

If you measure them in clocks, sure. But GDDR5 clocks proportionally higher, making the absolute delay a wash. So basically, nope.

GDDR runs at only 20% faster clocks than DDR3.

The latency is more than 3x.

 

[Baconsammy]

It's likely for connecting cable boxes in.

Yep, for overlaying content stored on the DVR or being streamed. What I'm still fuzzy on is how the Xbox is supposed to be used as a DVR itself. I don't think that can be done by simply running HDMI into it from a DVR.

 

[JonathanPower]

It's beginning to seem more and more possible/clear

It's not clear to me how can ROPS not being in the eDRAM. In order to benefit from the high eDRAM bandwidth, ROPS must access the eDRAM through a high speed bus, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of having eDRAM. That's why in the Xbox360 ROPS and eDRAM are in the same logic.

 

[BlackJace]

Well there was a guy during the Wii prelaunch who claimed to have lots of insider knowledge and said all this stuff about what they were going to launch at e3 that year and how powerful the Wii was then it launched and he was wrong and got shamed badly. For the life of me I can't remember his name.

Well it's coming. The hypemen will be revealed, and I wouldn't want to be those guys.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

And they both give off the vibe of preferring what MS is doing. Guess Sony am cry.

Shut up will you, sick of reading your crap twisting what people say into something Pro-MS.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Maybe if you own two Durangos and use HDMI, you can play at ultra setting!

Spoiler

Yeah, no. lol

 

[Ushae]

These specs are amazing, bearing in mind we can still get last minute changes.

Last gen we learned that better hardware doesn't always equate to better games, and more importantly optimisation.

So what does gaf think, will MS/Sony announce at their own event? Pre-E3 ?

 

[Clay Davis]

Shut up will you, sick of reading your crap twisting what people say into something Pro-MS.

did he though? I've read those posts and he hasn't twisted anyone's words...

 

[Baconsammy]

Has Thuwway always called BS on Karak or is this something new? Karak comes off as genuine, just seems scared to say to much.

He was rude about it, but what he was pointing out is that Karak doesn't actually know anything first hand. He relies upon a source. Whereas others here have first-hand knowledge that they don't share freely but will from time-to-time nod their head in agreement to when someone else leaks it.

 

[Sid]

So Sony did the last minute thing again? Although at least they seem to have boosted a couple of things (ram, GPU) which is good news otherwise they'd have been slaughtered.

It sounds like MS had a look at all the cool stuff in DirectX that hadn't been interpreted or supported 'properly' by AMD/Nvidia and took the opportunity to craft the hardware how they thought it should work as an ideal companion to DX?

According to that rumor Durango had a 7670,so that changed last minute too?

 

[Colonel Nasty]

Maybe if you own two Durangos and use HDMI, you can play at ultra setting!

Spoiler

Yeah, no. lol

Even though this could never happen how awesome would it be? Have dual settings for every game and the hardcore would purchase your system twice.

 

[Lord Error]

GDDR runs at only 20% faster clocks than DDR3.

The latency is more than 3x.

That doesn't address his statement though, no? Clock of GGDR5 is much higher so the latency difference becomes a wash, and the you're left with much more BW. I thought GDDR5 nowadays is usually around 192BG/s?

 

[Proelite]

According to that rumor Durango had a 7670,so that changed last minute too?

IGN was way way way off. Someone must have purposely mislead them.

 

[Clay Davis]

what I want to know is how the juicy details about the OS haven't been leaked yet? we've got a pretty big leak here but zero about the OS. closely guarded secret or did people just not think to ask / look for that info?

 

[mrklaw]

One thing is to have access to a whole 4GB pool at 192GB/s, the other is to access to a 32MB 'buffer' at 100GB/s and separately to a slow main pool at 68GB/s. Not considering that the total still favours the GDDR5 approach, which is something kinda surprising in a negative way because it raises the question of why not using GDDR5 in first place. And the answer could just be to be as cheap as possible.
Also talking about efficiency and other optimizations, there is no magic and whatever solution is available to one company has been available and discussed as well with the other. The know-how is the same, choices have been slightly different depeding on specific goals.
Microsoft is just using relatively cheap base hardware integrated into a big system on chip, trying to work around the most obvious limits using ad hoc solutions.There won't be miracles and we have already seen what kind of graphics this hardware can make with games like Star Wars 1313 and WatchDogs.
These considerations apply as well to Sony, they're going to be similar, although it seems they're going to have more brute force which is gonna help a lot in certain games and especially in the hands of first party studios.

Bearing in mind the comments that MS have been working on this for quite a while, plus the huge amount of ram, perhaps this was the only logical solution?

Sony seem to have only just been able to switch to 4GB GDDR5, probably at quite some cost. At the time MS would have been looking at their planning, 2Gh would have been a hard limit and less than they'd wanted.

 

[oversitting]

Maybe if you own two Durangos and use HDMI, you can play at ultra setting!

Spoiler

Yeah, no. lol

Its a way for you to chain a bunch of durangos together into some kind of consolecentipede.