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[saunderez]

Minds would be blown if Shenmue 3 became Atari exclusive?

If that happens I'm gonna regret getting rid of my 2600 a couple of decades ago. Damn.

 

[Codeblew]

When has a console every been tapped out?

Some crazy stuff was done late-gen on PS2 compared to release.

 

[Polo67]

I just wanted to clear the air. I know specs, and I've seen papers. This is the extent of my 'leakage'. I am not going to endorse either system as a work horse or the victor. Developers have averted doing any comparisons when pressed.

One dev, posting in this thread right now, has told me, he is amazed at how much the Orbis kit is improving. Proelite knows who I am talking about. If you want to play with bones, there it is. He is not making a single comparison to Durango.

In either case, third parties will develop for the lowest common denominator, this is a fact GAF needs to respect. I know some members get their dick's wet by knowing one machine is significantly more powerful, but all that does is lower the ceiling for third party tech. In the end, we all lose.

BTW no one has answered, has Karak managed to produce a single solitary fact since his initial cry for attention?

Stop throwing us bones. We are not dogs . We need Raw meat!

 

[Karak]

If that happens I'm gonna regret getting rid of my 2600 a couple of decades ago. Damn.

Swapmeet time.

 

[Codeblew]

Atari still hasn't been fully tapped. Century long plan...etc

Fixed.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I wouldn't say all of the juice, but yes, it will be easier. cross-plat devs don't code down to the metal as much as first party devs do. Their code will still have to run on PC and both Durant and Orbis will have custom parts that will differ.

True, but I think they will have a much easier time targeting baseline minimum specs of both consoles and making all ports 100% equal this to around and not worrying about optimizing for a given platforms strengths.

Develop for 3.5 gb in mind, 68gb/s bandwidth, and 1.2 tf.

Since they're all using amd components with similar architecture, developers job should be a whole lot easier as long as they don't try and play to the strengths of one platform....this may be the closest thing to the one console future the third parties have wanted for a long time.

We've never had dominant consoles that have shared the same vendors and basic processor architectures ever.

Will probably make for some boring DF comparisons, but extremely interesting looks at exclusives.

 

[onQ123]

another informative erp post about the dma engines

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1697618&postcount=482





so the answer to "can the dma engines help graphics performance in a significant way?" seems to be "maybe".

one things for sure, just like 360 it seems to me like microsoft has the more fun, interesting design this time around. i like thinking about all the caveats and potentials of durango while orbis just seems straightforward.

Orbis isn't going to be straightforward.

you seem to think that it will just be a PC CPU & GPU in a closed box.

 

[XtremeXpider]

well some of it is. the audio chips are for kinect speech recognition too for example. they're supposedly incredibly powerful. no wonder ms went with separate hardware there, a decision at first i didnt agree with since i figured the last thing a machine with 8 small general purpose cores looking for something to do needs, is an audio chip. but the more i learn, they were certainly necessary.

Ok, then, if the "sauces" can be used in games, not only for non games-related stuff, then it will be ok for me.

I liked Kinect when all looked promising (2010), but now Kinect is giving nothing to games. I want new and innovative games, if Kinect can give me this, ok, go for Kinect, but I'm skeptical

 

[aegies]

True, but I think they will have a much easier time targeting baseline minimum specs of both consoles and making all ports 100% equal this to around and not worrying about optimizing for a given platforms strengths.

Develop for 3.5 gb in mind, 68gb/s bandwidth, and 1.2 tf.

Since they're all using amd components with similar architecture, developers job should be a whole lot easier as long as they don't try and play to the strengths of one platform....this may be the closest thing to the one console future the third parties have wanted for a long time.

We've never had dominant consoles that have shared the same vendors and basic processor architectures ever.

Will probably make for some boring DF comparisons, but extremely interesting looks at exclusives.

If they have good tools, they won't need to even shoot that low. I'm sure Sony will have solutions to minimize any "shortage" of RAM, and it appears MS has plans to minimize bandwidth issues to some degree.

 

[specialguy]

Orbis isn't going to be straightforward.

you seem to think that it will just be a PC CPU & GPU in a closed box.

for the most part it is. the supposed compute unit according to proelite doesnt exist.

that doesnt make it bad. it might even be better. just kind of boring.

 

[Xenon]

We can all go to sleep now.

 

[iamshadowlark]

for the most part it is. the supposed compute unit according to proelite doesnt exist.

that doesnt make it bad. it might even be better. just kind of boring.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary. I know who I believe...

 

[phosphor112]

When has a console every been tapped out?

PS2. ZOE2, GoW2. SotC.

 

[Reiko]

PS2. ZOE2, GoW2. SotC.

Heh. Onimusha 3 pushed the PS2 harder than ZOE2.

 

[Codeblew]

Heh. Onimusha 3 pushed the PS2 harder than ZOE2.

I think his point still stands. The PS2 was tapped harder than a street hooker on payday.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

This talk of the Orbis kit improving is good for everybody if true because the less time wasted by devs in getting games put, the better for the whole industry. I don't presume it's additional hardware but better reliability and documentation. Did Sony buy or invest in a company that specialised in ultra fast compiler something or other? Or was that Nintendo?

 

[XtremeXpider]

If you ask to developers what they prefer... less but faster ram? or more but slower ram?... what is the consensus?

Spoiler

same question in PS4 rumor thread

 

[derFeef]

If you ask to developers what they prefer... less but faster ram? or more but slower ram?... what is the consensus?

Spoiler

same question in PS4 rumor thread

Depends on the game I guess. And I am sure you can get the same-ish results with both, it's just how you use this stuff.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Depends on the game I guess. And I am sure you can get the same-ish results with both, it's just how you use this stuff.

But can the size/speed affect to the game depending on genre? for example, sandbox games.

 

[SolarPowered]

PS2. ZOE2, GoW2. SotC.

I see no Silent Hill 3 on this list.

 

[Ashes]

How is an 8 core Jaguar going to emulate a 16 thread cpu?

 

[Wolves Evolve]

But can the size/speed affect to the game depending on genre? for example, sandbox games.

You're assuming that anybody is going to make sandbox games.

 

[derFeef]

But can the size/speed affect to the game depending on genre? for example, sandbox games.

Skyrim was fine with 512mb. The game was not very diverse and it saved budget that way, but I am sure Sandbox games will be even bigger and will have less loading. Loading times may be longer/shorter and there will be more or less pop in etc. depending on how it's done.

 

[Clay Davis]

You're assuming that anybody is going to make sandbox games.

what? we already know of at least two sandbox titles in development.

just cause 3 and fallout 4. next gen will probably see more sandbox / open world titles than this one.

 

[Brad Grenz]

How is an 8 core Jaguar going to emulate a 16 thread cpu?

What 16 thread CPU?

 

[Codeblew]

You're assuming that anybody is going to make sandbox games.

There will still be sandboxes, don't kid yourself. They will just get bigger and/or more detailed.

 

[Reiko]

Skyrim was fine with 512mb. The game was not very diverse and it saved budget that way, but I am sure Sandbox games will be even bigger and will have less loading. Loading times may be longer/shorter and there will be more or less pop in etc. depending on how it's done.

It was "fine", but the memory management fault of the engine was at it's worst.

If Bethseda chooses 8GB as a base for development we could be fucked.

 

[TheOddOne]

So this popped up: Narrative Designer.

Reporting to the Narrative Director, a Narrative Designer is responsible for the technical implementation of the game story. The Narrative Designer will be relied upon to collaborate with other designers, artists and writers to implement of story content using game editors and scripting systems as part of the iterative process.

Job Responsibilities:
- Under supervision of Narrative Designer, the Narrative designer is responsible for technical implementation of narrative content.
-Collaborate with other designers to assist in design and implementation of story using game editors and scripting systems.
- Collaborate with external teams to evangelize and champion storytelling outlined by the Creative Director.
- Collaborate with art team on environmental storytelling to support the Narrative Director’s vision.

Work Experience:
- Two years of technical game design experience.
- Preferably shipped at least one AAA title as a narrative designer.

Education, Professional Training, Technical Training or Certification:
- B.A. degree preferred, or equivalent game design experience or scripting experience.

Knowledge/Skills:
- Experience using a scripting language is a must.
- Game writing ability
- Understand techniques to elicit player emotion.
- Familiarity with concept art creation and storyboarding.
- Knowledge of cinematic techniques.
- Experience working with art team on cinematic development.

Other Requirements:
- Strong interest in computer and video games.
- Ability to work well under pressure and with deadlines.
- Excellent communication, interpersonal, and organizational skills.
- Passion for First-person shooters.
- Excellent Communication and Collaboration skills
- Experience with game editors and scripting systems
- Excellent Organizational skills; self-motivated.
- In-depth knowledge of industry trends in interactive storytelling

Nothing to intresting at first glance, then I noticed that the location is Richmond, VA. Most of the joblistings list their internal studios locations like Redmond, Vancouver or London. This is the first time Richmond has popped up.

 

[Ashes]

What 16 thread CPU?

Indeed.

 

[Pistolero]

There is an interesting discussion at B3D revolving around the merits of the DMA modules, which paints the whole Durango configuration in a good light. If the speculation about their supposed role is correct, then we will observe a very efficient machine at work!

 

[thuway]

This talk of the Orbis kit improving is good for everybody if true because the less time wasted by devs in getting games put, the better for the whole industry. I don't presume it's additional hardware but better reliability and documentation. Did Sony buy or invest in a company that specialised in ultra fast compiler something or other? Or was that Nintendo?

Don't expect something drastic like 2 TF or more RAM. The numbers that we are looking at right now are on the optimistic side. The best case scenario for me is IF Sony can hit the 1.843 TF number alongside 192 GB/S RAM with a nonbloated OS.

I'm not expect miracles, but final devkits are supposed to come soon. I'm sure some folks here will pipe in at that time.

 

[Hammer24]

What 16 thread CPU?

The one from the alpha kit.

 

[Matt]

Nothing to intresting at first glance, then I noticed that the location is Richmond, VA. Most of the joblistings list their internal studios locations like Redmond, Vancouver or London. This is the first time Richmond has popped up.

The most likely answer is whoever was putting up the listing accidentally entered the code for Richmond instead of Redmond.

 

[TheOddOne]

The most likely answer is whoever was putting up the listing accidentally entered the code for Richmond instead of Redmond.

Maybe, but LA was once mentioned too and days later we found out that the were opening up a studio there.

 

[Codeblew]

There is an interesting discussion at B3D revolving around the merits of the DMA modules, which paints the whole Durango configuration in a good light. If the speculation about their supposed role is correct, then we will observe a very efficient machine at work!

No link?

Sorry, here : http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62867&page=19

Thanks!

 

[Hammer24]

... alongside 192 GB/S RAM ...

Do you expect this to be more than theoretical peek performance? How about heat?

 

[dragonelite]

The most likely answer is whoever was putting up the listing accidentally entered the code for Richmond instead of Redmond.

Or another new studio microsoft was busy sprouting studios from the ground.

Spoiler

Will make kinect games has a passsion for fps is a trap...

 

[XtremeXpider]

You're assuming that anybody is going to make sandbox games.

I'm not assuming anything, just asking.

 

[Reiko]

I wouldn't say all of the juice, but yes, it will be easier. cross-plat devs don't code down to the metal as much as first party devs do. Their code will still have to run on PC and both Durango and Orbis will have custom parts that will differ.

Edit: "Durango" != "Durant"

 

[Pistolero]

No link?

Sorry, here : http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62867&page=19

 

[XtremeXpider]

Don't expect something drastic like 2 TF or more RAM. The numbers that we are looking at right now are on the optimistic side. The best case scenario for me is IF Sony can hit the 1.843 TF number alongside 192 GB/S RAM with a nonbloated OS.

I'm not expect miracles, but final devkits are supposed to come soon. I'm sure some folks here will pipe in at that time.

How close to final design are the durango dev kits (what you think)? can't we expect improvements?

 

[mrklaw]

Ah okay. My main worry is more bandwidth and what this does to the central computer.
For example, a cable box is for watching stuff. On mine I can watch one programme and record two more (can also record what am watching). I can't do more cause its not capable of that.

If I use this, how does it affect my Xbox at home, would be my main question. Can someone else in the house play it?

I would say this is a backwards step when considering the availability of shows out there that are provided by another business online and not by my own server. Its necessity seems rather questionable.


DVR stuff just seems well represented elsewhere. Its nice 'additional' stuff but if I have a netflix account I can get that on mobile AND on my Xbox. I'm not sure streaming from home makes all that much sense.


Personal feeling is Durango will come with a lot of wee features. I also think you'll be able to plug your cable programmes into a social thing through Xbox. Lots of wee sites do this, but nothing appears with the show. This could work with Surface and just on screen quite well.

Thats my guess for the HDMI In anyway - doing what cable can't, least I hope so. Stuff like that is actually useful.

My guess for HDMI in is that it allows MS to leave the recording and playback to the DVR, where it belongs, but Durango will download the EPG so it can do common search and give you a nice combined EPG with other services. But if you choose to watch something on the DVR you'll control it through Durango. (If you turn it off you can still use the DVR as-is). This is all doable on TiVo boxes with their iPad app (actually much nicer and faster searching and browsing on the iPad than using a remote control). It can even access your recorded shows and upcoming recordings and start those playing.

If MS decide to add sling box type support, they'd need to dedicate some ram and processor time to it, but it wouldn't affect the main Xbox and you'd apps till be able to play games while its streaming to a tablet for example. But this is optional IMO, might not be something they offer - I have concerns about HDCP and cable company agreements which MIT make is difficult. Cool if they pull it off though.

 

[Codeblew]

Durango such a beast!

Edit: I mean Durant

 

[iamshadowlark]

Don't expect something drastic like 2 TF or more RAM. The numbers that we are looking at right now are on the optimistic side. The best case scenario for me is IF Sony can hit the 1.843 TF number alongside 192 GB/S RAM with a nonbloated OS.

I'm not expect miracles, but final devkits are supposed to come soon. I'm sure some folks here will pipe in at that time.

How is 2TFLOPs "drastic". The GPU that DF described is already at about 1.8 tflops. Add the CPU and it could easily be at a 2flop theo max. Then there's the rumored compute unit.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

How is 2TFLOPs "drastic". The GPU that DF described is already at about 1.8 tflops. Add the CPU and it could easily be at a 2flop theo max. Then there's the rumored compute unit.

It's probably too late and locked down to add CU's, and even clock speed tweaks are more likely to go down than up.

 

[iamshadowlark]

It's probably too late and locked down to add CU's, and even clock speed tweaks are more likely to go down than up.

I don't mean a "CU". I mean a separate unit, maybe module is a better word. And its been planned the whole time, apparently.

 

[Codeblew]

Don't expect something drastic like 2 TF or more RAM. The numbers that we are looking at right now are on the optimistic side. The best case scenario for me is IF Sony can hit the 1.843 TF number alongside 192 GB/S RAM with a nonbloated OS.

I'm not expect miracles, but final devkits are supposed to come soon. I'm sure some folks here will pipe in at that time.

PS4 is running on linux kernal like PS3 isn't it? If so, I doubt it will be bloated. I do most of my dev work on Ubuntu and the mem usage is less than 256k at bootup with a windows manager. I rarely go over 800k with chrome, and dev tools and emulators loaded. I doubt a production gaming OS would ever go ever 512K. Which is why I find it hard to believe that xboxnext needs 3GB. That number just boggles my mind. But maybe it is legit and they have a good reason for it.

 

[mrklaw]

So? SOC for BC in the higher Sku =/= more performance. It's a Ps3 situation, hardware BC in, then later it's out.

That doesn't improve ze situation

It does if you can leverage the 360 as a coprocessor of some kind. It's pretty powerful in its own right. Could easily run the entire OS leaving more cores free, or do other duties. Depends how its integrated

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

PS4 is running on linux kernal like PS3 isn't it? If so, I doubt it will be bloated. I do most of my dev work on Ubuntu and the mem usage is less than 256k at bootup with a windows manager. I rarely go over 800k with chrome, and dev tools and emulators loaded. I doubt a production gaming OS would ever go ever 512K. Which is why I find it hard to believe that xboxnext needs 3GB. That number just boggles my mind. But maybe it is legit and they have a good reason for it.

Not to sound insulting but are you high or were those honest typos?

 

[Ashes]

It does if you can leverage the 360 as a coprocessor of some kind. It's pretty powerful in its own right. Could easily run the entire OS leaving more cores free, or do other duties. Depends how its integrated

First gen games will be worse on second gen xb3?*


*if, as the poster you replied to implied, Microsoft take out the chip down the line.