Proelite
Member
I am not sure how an unbiased technical guy would jump to that conclusion, unless he is just fucking with us.
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VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...
- Thread starter Shikoro
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I am not sure how an unbiased technical guy would jump to that conclusion, unless he is just fucking with us.
XtremeXpider
Member
So Proelite, is the situation no longer Orbis=Durango?
Beerman462
Member
I could see it. Windows 8, but locked out of desktop with a modified Metro interface. Why not.
Proelite
Member
I never said Orbis=Durango. I was always of the position that Durango > Orbis by 5-10%.
XtremeXpider
Member
Today, I guess Orbis>>Durango, and some months ago Durango>Orbis xD
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
I don't expect Move/Kinect to come with either console.
Can't sell it for 200 bucks on top of a 500 dollar console if it's a pack in.
Can't sell it for 200 bucks on top of a 500 dollar console if it's a pack in.
phosphor112
Banned
The FLOP calculations?
18CU's for Orbis = 1.8
12CU's for Durangoe = 1.2
Idk how to calculate them, but at 800mhz I'm guessing each CU can give roughly 100GFLOPS.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Also thinking....
The 720 needs 3 gig and a runs non specialized Windows 8 even though MS has a specialized and very temporary version of Windows 8 created just for Surface RT that uses 2 or less than 2 gigs of RAM while doubling as a tablet/desktop OS?
Windows 8 PC's minimum RAM requirement is 1gig.
Gonna have to hold off on assuming anything about the OS foot print.
The 720 needs 3 gig and a runs non specialized Windows 8 even though MS has a specialized and very temporary version of Windows 8 created just for Surface RT that uses 2 or less than 2 gigs of RAM while doubling as a tablet/desktop OS?
Windows 8 PC's minimum RAM requirement is 1gig.
Gonna have to hold off on assuming anything about the OS foot print.
Even by the recent leaks?
Proelite
Member
Target specs are two years old. New leaks isn't going to change the target specs.
Baconsammy
Banned
Whichever one is less powerful, buy that one, because that's the one third parties are going to develop for.
Yea, with 0 apps running. I think they want people to be able to run also every app and sort of multi task while having a game up. Also OS might incluse Kinect usage?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Different vendors, different architectures, different metrics for FLOPS....
And what if the balance of power shifts dramatically and third parties choose Orbias as their lead platform ?
I could see that happening.
What evidence do you have to support this? If the target specs are similar to the leaked specs, this isn't the case.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
I think windows 8 footprint with no apps running is less than 200 MB (depending on various settings and hardware configuration of course but generally).
EDIT: I believe the kernel overhead is much less. Remember Windows is designed to use up as much memory as reasonably possible for cache but what it actually uses for active memory is less in a clean state. When you remove window managers, UI, desktop OS services, extra drivers for PnP devices, etc... you get down to very low usage thresholds really fast.
Minor details can or will change correct?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Developers assured him that the nonexistent special sauce would magically surpass Orbis, but only to the tune of 5-10%, just so Proelite could make the claim that Durango > Orbis.
XtremeXpider
Member
Flops are flops, it is about efficiency.
Who developers?
ProElite's favourite special sauce will make sure that it will be the case!
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Presumably, he asked because you said how someone was saying that PS4 devkit was improving lately while Xbox devkit was downgraded from alpha to beta.
Death Dealer
Member
The 400GFLOPs number in reference to RSX is inaccurate as that is counting texture unit ALUs which are completely separate architecturally on Xenos and thus cannot be added in the same way.
The correct apples to apples comparison of the shading power between them is :
RSX = 232GFLOPs, Xenos = 240GFLOPs
And of course Xenos is unified shaders so it can kill RSX in vertex ops by dynamically allocating more resources, it's overall just a lot more efficient.
But the graphics logic in Orbis and Durango are probably extremely similar if not identical.
Oh dear. You must have slept through high school math.
Baconsammy
Banned
I dont know what balance of power shift you're speaking of. I'm saying whichever of the two is the lowest common denominator is most likely the console devs will lead on, and then port. Just like this gen. Unless of course there's a world of difference between the two as there was between the Wii and the 360/PS3.
dragonelite
Member
i believe the formula goes something like this.
(clock speed * 2 / 1000) * amount of CU * 64
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
I have had Windows 8 running on an ancient Pentium Dual Core and only use up to roughly a gig in memory.
XtremeXpider
Member
How do you know that?
Baconsammy
Banned
You dared to say that Durango may be more powerful. You're obviously on the payroll. May I borrow a dollar?
*Insert joke speach from the ending of the Dark Knight*
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Thanks for pointing this out. I knew the 400 GFLOP number of RSX was inflated.
In the end PS3 was marginally more powerful than 360, because CELL made up for the deficiencies with RSX versus Xenos...but at the end of the day it was marginal and extremely hard to extract. So it wasn't obvious unless you looked at certain exclusive titles, and even then who knows if that was more a function of talent versus hardware prowess.
But, with Durango and Orbis sharing the same vendor and basic architecture, the comparisons are a lot more straightforward.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
XtremeXpider
Member
Maybe he is trolling... xD
I agree he seems to be jumping to the worst case scenario, but DDR3 with ~3GB reserved for the OS is rather suggestive of a full Windows experience, and if not it's definitely sacrificing bandwidth for whatever OS ends up shipping on there.
Proelite
Member
8 core dozer at 1.6 ghz, 8gb of ram, and a 18 CU modified Southern Islands just doesn't sound impressive to me.
I'll be very disappointed if that was the kit that's supposed to emulate final Orbis performance.
But according to Thuway, dev kits shown marked improvement every iteration, so final kit performance should be great.
Proelite
Member
Full Windows experience has support for billions of legacy apps, and drivers. It also has memory paging, complicated task manager, dos, apis for dozens of languages, and thousands of hot fixes.
I am only scratching the surface of what Windows is.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
But a modified 12 CU Southern Islands Cape Verde card with 8 Jaguar Cores @ 1.6 Ghz and 8 GB of DDR3 RAM does sound impressive to you?
Proelite
Member
If it was the PC devkit instead of final hardware, no, it did be terrible.
That's what's supposed to be in the box, not the devkit.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
As I read it the January devkit is actual early final silicon, not a powerful PC emulating it. But I may be wrong?
nelsonroyale
Member
He is going against the prevailing opinion from the sliver of spec info we have on both systems, and even provided percentage estimates for the difference. No real way to know yet what credibility he has in this, since he hasn't provided any significant insider info before that I can think of.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
The semi-final devkit for Orbis is as follows:
SoC Based Devkit
Available January 2013
CPU: 8-core Jaguar
GPU: Liverpool GPU
RAM: unified 8 GB for devkit (4 GB for the retail console)
Subsystem: HDD, Network Controller, BD Drive, Bluetooth Controller, WLAN and HDMI (up to 1980×1080@3D)
Analog Outputs: Audio, Composite Video
Connection to Host: USB 3.0 (targeting over 200 MB/s),
ORBIS Dualshock
Dual Camera
Hate to mention it again....but special sauce mang. That's essentially what his argument equates to. That unknown features will make up the difference. Which would be perfectly appreciable, if he had evidence to back it. Having said that, it is a possibility, there's just nothing out there to suggest it yet.
I guess it will boil down to what special sauce (i.e customisations) Orbis and Durango will have, plus the GDDR5 and DDR3 plus Sram differences. You never know, faster ram might still come with Durango, and slower ram with Orbis. Don't think it's set in stone yet.
Why even bother vigorously defending amateur technical assessments? We're going to find out soon.
If anything argue the Orbis is even stronger given the known memory differentiation. Go big or go home. None of this half-measure crap.
To arms and whatnot.
Honestly, I am less resentful that secret recipe and more curious. Given llhere said it is a wash, it has to have had some impact to narrow the TF gap.
It's surprising that you trivialize the difference of 0.6TF, because you are not "overly tech savvy" hence, did not have enough information to pass such a judgement. Yet when you are called out on it, you get defensive and compensate by showing off your credentials and resort to name calling.
Ah, the beauty of internet forum.
oversitting
Banned
I heard you liek flops.
It's nice and all, but still rumored leaks.
I will judge the systems when I play games on them
