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[Reiko]

I give up on this. People continue to bring up this silly argument that PS2 was weak and despite that it won. People don't have memory, they don't know the PS2 came out 20 months earlier and that by the time the competitors arrived the race was already over.

For some reason they continue to spread BS like this even if we are correcting and giving the context of what happened back then.

I already gave my opinion on PS2.

The PS2 was definitely not weak. It was a monster with it's own special quirks. But there were things I did not like about it coming off of Dreamcast.

The GC and Xbox rectified that though.

 

[Proxy]

Correct. These "specs" are competely unconfirmed and unofficial, and are the result of anonymous rumors and internet speculations going under the more palatable term "leaks".

I'm not saying the specs have changed. I don't think that they have. I'm just trying to qualify my statement as specifically as possible. See: ass-covering.

>

Because the specs didn't change. Simply as that.

Alpha kits -> Beta kits -> Final kits

Beta kits are more or less final kits (final silicon).

>

Sorry I can't talk about that, in fact, this is my last comment in one of this threads (i mean consolewars, specs, etc, I will participate in gaf in the rest of the forums).

.

It was even you who aegis was responding to.

 

[Spongebob]

Why was proelite banned?

 

[ZaCH3000]

thats actually irrelevant
if MS wants to go after casual crowd, since Wii U didnt make that of an impact , they will launch with 8g RAM and try to make x720 a total media hub

so these talks of Orbis being more powerful than Durango is actually irrelevant

I'm not following your argument.

 

[EloquentM]

>


>



.

It was even you who he aegis was responding to.

I told them the look at the page but no one listened =P

 

[alterno69]

For me it's pretty simple, i'm getting the console or consoles that offer online play with party chat for free, i'm ok with services like PS+ cause it actually has great value, if Microsoft is charging for online play again next gen i'm not getting their console at least until it has a significant price drop and only to play offline games.

 

[BruiserBear]

What's with all the cries of "unconfirmed"? Of course it's not absolutely confirmed, until we actually hear it from Microsoft's mouth, but there are literally thousands of people around the world with access to the SDK right now, so it's not exactly difficult to imagine just a few of them are talking.

Personally, I can't recall a console that had spec leaks this close to the console reveal that were totally inaccurate. Especially when it's a source that has been correct about a lot of things already.

 

[Reiko]

What's with all the cries of "unconfirmed"? Of course it's not absolutely confirmed, until we actually hear it from Microsoft's mouth, but there are literally thousands of people around the world with access to the SDK right now, so it's not exactly difficult to imagine just a few of them are talking.

Personally, I can't recall a console that had spec leaks this close to the console reveal that were totally inaccurate. Especially when it's a source that has been correct about a lot of things already.

Also MS must feel very confident about their specs to not make a change like Sony did.

 

[JJD]

Correct. These "specs" are competely unconfirmed and unofficial, and are the result of anonymous rumors and internet speculations going under the more palatable term "leaks".

Damn man.

You asked about the specs in this thread being a year old directly to aegies.

Here is what he answered to you.

I'm not saying the specs have changed. I don't think that they have. I'm just trying to qualify my statement as specifically as possible. See: ass-covering.

And you're still in denial??? lherre practically confirmed then and then bailed fearing NDAs.

I want the 720 to be as powerful as MS can make it. But right now chances are closing on 100% that we're looking at what we'll get.

There is absolutely no more time for a significant overhaul if they are unveiling at E3. And they're probably doing it sooner.

I think the only option MS have at this time is adding more RAM, and I'm not talking about faster GDDR5 RAM, that would require more work. I'm talking about more slow DDR3 which would be useless for then since they already have 8Gb.

 

[RoboPlato]

Also MS must feel very confident about their specs to not make a change like Sony did.

It sounds to me like MS had much clearer goals than Sony did early on in the Durango's development process. They came up with a plan and stuck with it. Sony seemed to be holding out to see what they could afford.

 

[i-Lo]

It sounds to me like MS had much clearer goals than Sony did early on in the Durango's development process. They came up with a plan and stuck with it. Sony seemed to be holding out to see what they could afford.

This. They are playing the "Reactionary" game.

 

[meta4]

Lol at the PS2 comparisons. MS in their wildest dreams will not sell that many consoles. Neither will Sony again.

 

[gamergirly]

Lol at the PS2 comparisons. MS in their wildest dreams will not sell that many consoles. Neither will Sony again.

The Wii might be the last 100 million selling console we see lol

 

[Proxy]

It seems like a downgrade for Orbis in relation to the CPU although the RAM got an upgrade in return. Or hell maybe Sony was just playing it close to their chest.

Reminds me of this lol worthy comment that was posted on Beyond3D:

Sony greatly deceived 3rd parties this time around. Supposedly Ubisoft and Activision, as well as others were led to believe that the PS4 would be a low power A10 equivalent, that had access to 2GB of unified DDR3 ram.
Microsoft probably developed the Durango to exceed that.

I just think that this is not fair, even if Ubisoft and Activision were leaking information to MS, Sony should have been more honest. I expect the next Ubisoft and Activision titles to not use any additional PS4 processing power at all because of this. They were played hard.
The Durango suffers in the long term as a consequence of Sony's lies and deceit. It's just not fair.

 

[jfoul]

Orbis and Durango both seem to be quite capable when it comes to hardware. I'm more interested in the advancements of Live and PSN.

 

[bobbytkc]

It seems like a downgrade for Orbis in relation to the CPU although the RAM got an upgrade in return. Or hell maybe Sony was just playing it close to their chest.

Reminds me of this lol worthy comment that was posted on Beyond3D:

Kaz is a master strategist if true, lol.

I mean, this, and his comments about letting MS go first, it is kinda hilarious really.

 

[RoboPlato]

It seems like a downgrade for Orbis in relation to the CPU although the RAM got an upgrade in return. Or hell maybe Sony was just playing it close to their chest.

Reminds me of this lol worthy comment that was posted on Beyond3D:

That comment is absolutely hilarious. Devs wouldn't be anything but happy to get dev kits more powerful than they were expecting.

 

[LukasTaves]

Another thing is that either of those things in Orbis or Durango could sway the performance in either console's favor. We'll so how all of this works out at E3.




I get the impression that the Durango will end up surprising many in relation to Orbis performance.

I haven't read much about the GCN, so i don't know what is new for durango and what's is currently available. But i think i can see why people were hyping the color/depth blocks... If they are what the vgleaks writing indicate what they are they could actually save fillrate, shading power, and allow MSAA and other post processing effects at a reduced cost and increased quality.

 

[AndyD]

Orbis and Durango both seem to be quite capable when it comes to hardware. I'm more interested in the advancements of Live and PSN.

Yep. Software is where the real battle is. Lesser hardware can seem infinitely better with the right software.

 

[Xamdou]

Orbis and Durango both seem to be quite capable when it comes to hardware. I'm more interested in the advancements of Live and PSN.

Optional full game installs to hard-drive, Eight player party chat across games, achievements are now standard on Live. What I am expecting now for live are 16+ party chats, video chat's while in-game, keyboard and mouse option for web browsing and messages. Still waiting to see what MS has in store for us for the next gen LIVE!

 

[SirButterstick]

Man, these console launches really bring out the worst in people, don't they?

Also, y'all live in a bubble.

 

[Gorillaz]

It seems like a downgrade for Orbis in relation to the CPU although the RAM got an upgrade in return. Or hell maybe Sony was just playing it close to their chest.

Reminds me of this lol worthy comment that was posted on Beyond3D:

That seems way to complicated for Sony to actually pull off and we all know they can't do something that devious. Naw they would fuck up to much lol


But if its true....and they seriously downplayed the specs to 3rd party, just to fuck with MS then LOL.

 

[jfoul]

Optional full game installs to hard-drive, Eight player party chat across games, achievements are now standard on Live. What I am expecting now for live are 16+ party chats, video chat's while in-game, keyboard and mouse option for web browsing and messages. Still waiting to see what MS has in store for us for the next gen LIVE!

With how much ram the Durango is using, I'm hoping the console allows full OS and Game usage at the same time... like tabbing out on PC.

 

[Bgamer90]

Features yes, better support from developers no. They're just making use of something already in the API. Microsoft paid for 90% of any real favoritism.

90%? Proof?

So you have no practical idea how the hypothetical scenario you outlined would actually result in substantially better support for Durango over Orbis. This isn't the era of PS2 not having unified online versus Xbox live, the core feature sets that drive adoption are there.

Heh, I don't see how it's "hypothetical" at all. The next xbox will get good support regardless and if it's cheaper then it can lead to more sales.

I was simply making comparisons to the PS2 in terms of how some things may possibly be similar. You guys took it to a whole different "console war" level going in depth acting like I didn't know that there were differences.

I DO know that there are differences. My comparison was simply based on similarities and not on everything matching up 100%.

The point is it doesn't matter. Even if we see features that drive substantially more sales towards one or the other (say 20 million difference) developers, especially now of all times, aren't going to shut out millions of potential customers and it's unrealistic to hedge your bets on a highly improbably something tipping the scales.

Exclusivs online features and cheaper prices will probably matter a lot next gen when it comes to the consoles. I mean, if the consoles will be viewed as pretty similar in comparison to the Wii U, then the features that bring out differences between the two consoles are going to matter even more for people who can't afford to get both consoles.

Again, I never said it was going to be BIG, but it can definitely have an impact on one system becoming more popular than the other.

All the better social features didn't stop the PS3 from launching a year late at $599 with bad ports from catching up and surpassing the 360 install base, outselling it when launch aligned.

...But it helped the Xbox brand gain huge popularity in the NA; causing the PS brand to go down in popularity.

There's not going to be a wave of amazing online/social features that result in Durango receiving better support than Orbis, it's just ludicrous. It didn't happen with the 360 and it won't happen now.

Yes, it's ludicrous for me to think that online features/services will play more of a role in 2013+ than they did back in 2005/2006. I mean, it isn't like more people are playing online or anything like that.

:|

It happened with the original Xbox because of a power difference and there being nothing like Xbox live in the console space, there's no way they can replicate that kind of divide. And most of the Xbox favoritism came from PC devs jumping on board due to hardware.

And it didn't stop the PS2 from still outselling the original Xbox by huge margins.

Of course, online gaming didn't mean anything really back in the early '00s. Most people didn't have broadband connections.

Things are very different now. I would go as far as to say that online services/features will mean just as much as game exclusives.

 

[VIDEOGAMESYAY]

Orbis and Durango both seem to be quite capable when it comes to hardware. I'm more interested in the advancements of Live and PSN.

I for one couldn't give a crap about PSN and Live, but I find this sort of analysis of next-gen hardware to be absolutely fascinating

 

[mugoldeneagle03]

Orbis and Durango both seem to be quite capable when it comes to hardware. I'm more interested in the advancements of Live and PSN.

This.

Really all I care about at this point aside from software, PSN specifically. It's come a long way from the PS3 launch and still has a lot of little things missing. If Sony finally gets it right from the start and has the 1st party lineup & hardware to boot, I'll be very impressed.

I love XBL already, I'm just interested in what else it has to offer to justify the cost this time around.

Excited for both though!

 

[AppleSmack]

So I'm hearing Durango has 50% the GPU power of the Orbis? Why in the world would I get it then?

 

[FordGTGuy]

Man, these console launches really bring out the worst in people, don't they?

Also, y'all live in a bubble.

D:

 

[shinra-bansho]

Have there been any new developments in all these pages?

It sounds to me like MS had much clearer goals than Sony did early on in the Durango's development process. They came up with a plan and stuck with it. Sony seemed to be holding out to see what they could afford.

Pretty much.

Essentially, they had clear overarching business drivers and have built the machine around that purpose. From my rather lay understanding:

• Need to have this much RAM for X, Y and Z.
• Therefore, need to use lower bandwidth DDR3 for cost reasons.
• Therefore, need to have high bandwidth ESRAM pool.
• Therefore, bandwidth limitations mean having a more powerful GPU wouldn't be prudent.

While I don't really see any particular outside business drive for the PS4 - it simply seems like they set out to make a reasonably powerful, affordable and easy to develop for system.

 

[nasos_333]

So this is HALF as strong as the Orbis?

Well shit.

Half would be 1.8TFs / 2 = 0.9TFs

1.2TFs is a bit better

But i can see xbox brand eliminated if it is so, who would buy the worst looking version of any game

Even if PS4 is 400$ more expensive, it will still feel better to pay that, then pay 60$ for games with far lower graphics

 

[Bgamer90]

Lol at the PS2 comparisons. MS in their wildest dreams will not sell that many consoles. Neither will Sony again.

The PS2 also came out 20 months before the rest. You can't compare these situations.

I give up on this. People continue to bring up this silly argument that PS2 was weak and despite that it won. People don't have memory, they don't know the PS2 came out 20 months earlier and that by the time the competitors arrived the race was already over.

For some reason they continue to spread BS like this even if we are correcting and giving the context of what happened back then.

Heh, again, I was never making a full match for match comparison to the PS2. All I did was make some similarities here and there.

I know that there were many differences... the companies were in completely different situations. All I did was relate certain qualities to an older console (PS2).

After doing that, a good number of you (seemingly) took it as me saying that the next Xbox will do exactly as well as the PS2 when I didn't mean that at all.

 

[Oemenia]

Remember guys, we all shot down the 360 and its capabilities and said how the gap was going to be worse when it comes to multiplats.

We all know how that turned out...

 

[mujun]

Lol at the PS2 comparisons. MS in their wildest dreams will not sell that many consoles. Neither will Sony again.

I bet people said something similar about sales expectations for the Wii before it was released.

 

[Xamdou]

With how much ram the Durango is using, I'm hoping the console allows full OS and Game usage at the same time... like tabbing out on PC.

Well 3GB for the Xbox 720 is a whole lot. I am thinking pressing the guide button to access Internet Explorer and google a missing ingredient you need for a recipe quest.

 

[chubigans]

Well 3GB for the Xbox 720 is a whole lot. I am thinking pressing the guide button to access Internet Explorer and google a missing ingredient you need for a recipe quest.

That sounded pretty good back in the day...but now I usually have my iPod/iPad handy if I want to do any web searching.

 

[gazele]

Half would be 1.8TFs / 2 = 0.9TFs

1.2TFs is a bit better

But i can see xbox brand eliminated if it is so, who would buy the worst looking version of any game

Even if PS4 is 400$ more expensive, it will still feel better to pay that, then pay 60$ for games with far lower graphics

There's no way PS4 is 400 dollars more than the Durango, even if there is a huge jump, that would be insane

Look at this gen, a 200 dollar difference stopped a lot of people from buying the more powerful console

 

[JJD]

Remember guys, we all shot down the 360 and its capabilities and said how the gap was going to be worse when it comes to multiplats.

We all know how that turned out...

Yeah...also remember how different the 360 and the PS3 architecture were? Now forget about that.

Half would be 1.8TFs / 2 = 0.9TFs

1.2TFs is a bit better

But i can see xbox brand eliminated if it is so, who would buy the worst looking version of any game

Even if PS4 is 400$ more expensive, it will still feel better to pay that, then pay 60$ for games with far lower graphics

You're exaggerating, if that were true the PS3 would be dead by a long time now. 80% of multiplatform games look worse on it.

This won't kill the 720, much less the Xbox brand.

 

[artist]

Remember guys, we all shot down the 360 and its capabilities and said how the gap was going to be worse when it comes to multiplats.

We all know how that turned out...

Is this revisionist theory? I though we shot down the RSX in comparison to Xenos and PS3's split memory arch. The only area where PS3 was thought to be better was CELL and the more obvious one - Blu-ray.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Hey why did Proelite get banned? And whats this I'm hearing about Durango AND Orbis both only having 6 out of the 8 available CPU cores available for games? Source? Someone plz give me the lowdown on what happened on GAF in the last 4 hours regarding Wii U, Orbis, and Durango AND Proelite. lol

 

[Xamdou]

That sounded pretty good back in the day...but now I usually have my iPod/iPad handy if I want to do any web searching.

I use my Iphone, but at least it's more convenient with web-browsing built in the guide menu.

 

[Uno Venova]

Remember guys, we all shot down the 360 and its capabilities and said how the gap was going to be worse when it comes to multiplats.

We all know how that turned out...

Most people seem to agree that it will be a big jump from the 360, just that the PS4 will probably outperform it power wise, which isn't far fetched based on the leaks. And we already see that there is goodwill with devs about PS4 and that it's easy to develop for, there is no PS3 situation here it seems.

snip

Well, if 720 is getting support regardless, PS4 is getting third party support regardless as well, since we already know there is goodwill with devs and it's easy to develop for, I don't see any online features changing that unless deals are made. I can see it selling more if it's cheaper, (I don't even know where people are getting this from) but unless it's a huge gap, support will be more or less the same.

We know devs are happy with both systems, if a hypothetical online feature is going to give one big advantage of support that should be given as a hypothetical to both.

 

[Deuterium]

Damn man.

You asked about the specs in this thread being a year old directly to aegies.

Here is what he answered to you.



And you're still in denial??? lherre practically confirmed then and then bailed fearing NDAs.

I want the 720 to be as powerful as MS can make it. But right now chances are closing on 100% that we're looking at what we'll get.

There is absolutely no more time for a significant overhaul if they are unveiling at E3. And they're probably doing it sooner.

I think the only option MS have at this time is adding more RAM, and I'm not talking about faster GDDR5 RAM, that would require more work. I'm talking about more slow DDR3 which would be useless for then since they already have 8Gb.

I am confused. How am I in denial?

I am not GAF expert, here. Who exactly is Aegies? Is he a lead designer or developer working on the Next Xbox?

Seems to me, all he was saying is that the unofficial, unconfirmed rumored specs of one year ago haven't changed. Fine. Why should I accept the accuracy and veracity of the original, year-old unconfirmed, unofficial "leaks"? For that matter, why should anybody?

 

[shinra-bansho]

They will for all intents and purposes get equivalent support. And I'd hazard to say that things will become "even more multiplatform" due to the PS4 likely being much easier to port from PC - e.g. the PS3 was too different for things like the Witcher 2 to be done easily, compared to a 360 SKU.

Seems to me, all he was saying is that the unofficial, unconfirmed rumored specs of one year ago haven't changed. Fine. Why should I accept the accuracy and veracityof the original, year-old unconfirmed, unofficial "leaks"? For that matter, why should anybody?

Yes, nothing is confirmed. What's your point? The thread is to discuss the leaked information, verified by a dev.

 

[Karak]

Most people seem to agree that it will be a big jump from the 360, just that the PS4 will probably outperform it power wise, which isn't far fetched based on the leaks. And we already see that there is goodwill with devs about PS4 and that it's easy to develop for, there is no PS3 situation here it seems.

Well, if 720 is getting support regardless, PS4 is getting third party support regardless as well, since we already know there is goodwill with devs and it's easy to develop for, I don't see any online features changing that unless deals are made. I can see it selling more if it's cheaper, (I don't even know where people are getting this from) but unless it's a huge gap, support will be more or less the same.

Are these devs talking about goodwill the same devs who said it was a "wash" or slightly more powerful? Or different ones? Which ones said it was easy to dev for?

Not arguing with any of that as I think it would be idiodic to think that they made something with mostly PC stuff then made it HARD to program for Just really weird to believe only 1 bit from some articles as has been happening for awhile now. Many of the bits people disagree with come from the same articles/sources as things the same people agree with.

 

[bobbytkc]

Yeah...also remember how different the 360 and the PS3 architecture were? Now forget about that.



You're exaggerating, if that were true the PS3 would be dead by a long time now. 80% of multiplatform games look worse on it.

The difference in Multiplats this gen are insignificant though. I wouldn't be able to confidently point out the difference without running the games side by side or one after the other. Next gen could be different, we'll see.

 

[Reiko]

I am confused. How am I in denial?

I am not GAF expert, here. Who exactly is Aegies? Does he work directly for Microsoft? More specifically, is he a lead designer or developer working on the Next Xbox?

Seems to me, all he was saying is that the unofficial, unconfirmed rumored specs of one year ago haven't changed. Fine. Why should I accept the accuracy and veracity of the original, year-old unconfirmed, unofficial "leaks"? For that matter, why should anybody?

Aegis is a journalist.

 

[Norml]

Hey why did Proelite get banned? And whats this I'm hearing about Durango AND Orbis both only having 6 out of the 8 available CPU cores available for games? Source? Someone plz give me the lowdown on what happened on GAF in the last 4 hours regarding Wii U, Orbis, and Durango AND Proelite. lol

That came from Digital Foundry I think.

There'll be a relatively high CPU overhead too, with potentially two cores reserved for the customisable apps Microsoft wants to run in parallel with gameplay. Orbis has no such ambitions and may power past the new Xbox simply because it focuses its resources on out-and-out games power. There's always the possibility that Microsoft has looked at the prior success of Nintendo and its own Kinect and come to the conclusion that chasing after the maximum in raw horsepower isn't the way to win the next console war.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

 

[Uno Venova]

Are these devs talking about goodwill the same devs who said it was a "wash" or slightly more powerful? Or different ones? Which ones said it was easy to dev for?

Not arguing with any of that. Just really weird to believe only 1 bit from the same articles as has been happening for awhile now.

Don't know, it was in the EDGE article.

 

[RoboPlato]

Aegis is a journalist.

He works for Polygon, right? I can never remember where he's from.

 

[Bgamer90]

I can see it selling more if it's cheaper, (I don't even know where people are getting this from)...

People are saying that if the Next Xbox is less powerful than the PS4 then it will more than likely be cheaper.

Again, I never said that one console would blow out the other in terms of support. All I said was that if the price and online services are right, then I can see the console having more support than the other... not just in certain features in multiplatform games but also when it comes to digital download games (possible exclusivity?) and possibly other features that we don't know about at this time.

Like I said though, we'll see.