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Dice Summit: "nobody talking about the new WiiU projects they started, only canceled"

Genre doesn't matter as they're visual comparisons.
Think what different technical limitations are involved in designing each game. Why some titles like God of War 3 and the Uncharted series have some of the most impressive visuals of any class of hardware. Why fighting game character models generally have much higher poly counts.

If you understand these differences then you will understand why direct visual comparisons across genres are flawed at best.
 

wsippel

Banned
I don't see what's wrong with that. They're both basically the same generation. Genre doesn't matter as they're visual comparisons. X's not really that impressive.

Monolith's X has japanese mecha "art" styling. Which is not about tech but about "artistic choices". PS3 +X360 can pull off similar looking visuals. Just look at FFXIII. its awful but its similar

its also TBD and won't see light of day til 2014 (i'm going to say august). By then, we'd be 9 months into next gen. By then, you'd have some really amazing looking D+O games out. Some 1st parties, some 3rd parties.

Lets not lose track of what this thread is about.
FFXIII is essentially a Potemkin village. Really useless comparison from a technical standpoint.
 
Think what different technical limitations are involved in designing each game. Why some titles like God of War 3 and the Uncharted series have some of the most impressive visuals of any class of hardware. Why fighting game character models generally have much higher poly counts.

If you understand these differences then you will understand why direct visual comparisons across genres are flawed at best.

Nope. disagree.

X is a good looking game thats possible on all current gen consoles and its stand apart wow factor is more art than tech.

GOW3+UC series have great art.
 

farnham

Banned
Nope. disagree.

X is a good looking game thats possible on all current gen consoles and its stand apart wow factor is more art than tech.

GOW3+UC series have great art.

then why dont we see any HD games with the scale of xenoblade? event he big openworld games (GTA IV and RRD) or expansive WRPGs (skyrim etc) have smaller maps in comparison to xenoblade
 
then why dont we see any HD games with the scale of xenoblade? event he big openworld games (GTA IV and RRD) or expansive WRPGs (skyrim etc) have smaller maps in comparison to xenoblade

because they didn't design it that way? /shrug. pointless to debate this. they can make the maps bigger but they probably limited it for xyz reasons. or didn't see a need to. There is no reason why skyrim/fallout etc can't/don't have a bigger map
 

wsippel

Banned
Nope. disagree.

X is a good looking game thats possible on all current gen consoles and its stand apart wow factor is more art than tech.

GOW3+UC series have great art.
How could you even tell...?

One thing you need for a vast, detailed open world game is RAM. And we know Wii U has at the very least a bit more than twice as much RAM as either PS3 or 360, and also supports more advanced compression formats like 3Dc. Think about that for a moment.
 

GC|Simon

Member
Why are some people in this thread still complaing about Wii U's online capabilities? Do they even know them? Let's look at the facts:
+ one online ID per user which is not a number and works for all games
+ eShop with afaik no fixed price models and no big payments for patches, etc.
+ nearly all retail games are also available for download
+ full support of DLC
+ Miiverse (a social network which is really, really good)
+ access to the browser and Miiverse during games
+ free
- no voice chat

I don't see that much weaknesses anymore. With Miiverse Nintendo also offers something which is not available on other platforms.
 

ugoo18

Member
i'm guessing this is an arena shooter, right? did you play xenoblade? i don't think you understand what was so impressive about that game. it was like this GIF mixed in with some WoW seamless world shit, all done incredibly artistically.

edit: i typed that weird. xenoblade itself is nothing like this GIF. this is sort of how i imagine the next version to look, in addition to the crazy world design of xenoblade.

Running from the Military district in Colony 9 to the end of Valak mountain (Right before entrance to Sword Valley) which is about the half way point of the world took me 71 minutes and 35 seconds.

From the Military District to Colony 9 to the end of Valak mountain is roughly 33.5 km, that is Bionis more or less covered in 71 minutes and 35 seconds.

I did this right before finishing the game so i could not do the other half of the world (Mechonis) or Sword Valley which connects the Bionis and Mechonis because of the
Mechonis Core Event which prevents you from accessing areas in Mechonis
.

I also did not do the fallen arm or Prison Island (Forgot about them :/). I really wish someone would do the Mechonis part of the world because as much as i love the game i don't think i can be bothered playing it again just for that.
 

GC|Simon

Member
What does this mean? Who pays for patches? What is a non fixed price model?

As far as I know a dev has to pay for a patch e.g. on Xbox live. And they need to pay a lot just to release a patch. I think there is still no FEZ patch due to this, right?
No fixed price model means that the dev alone decides at what price point the game should be sold.
 

Darryl

Banned
rdr is really one map. unlike xenoblade and probably the sequel.

yea this is for non-technical reasons, though. radical environment shifts do not work from a design standpoint. FFXIV 1.0 had this problem big time. they're adding in forced map changes in version 2.0 because of this. you need a theme like a repetitive island or desert for it to work truly flawlessly.
 

omonimo

Banned
How could you even tell...?

One thing you need for a vast, detailed open world game is RAM. And we know Wii U has at the very least a bit more than twice as much RAM as either PS3 or 360, and also supports more advanced compression formats like 3Dc. Think about that for a moment.

It's absolutely false if it's bandwith constricted. Wii U has a lot of more difficult to work with an open world game than ps3, ram dimension not fit the others main ram 'bottleneck'; if you looks to Assassins Creed 3, you can see what I mean. With a lot of NPC & transparancies, Wii U goes in more troubles than the ps3 (& it's a paradox considering is the weaker part of the sony 7th older hardware). This is why X use bitmapped grass & hardly this thing will change at the end of the development.
 

wsippel

Banned
What does this mean? Who pays for patches? What is a non fixed price model?
Releasing patches is very expensive on 360 (dunno about PS3, but it seems to be similar), so often times, even known bugs aren't fixed because it simply isn't worth it. Patches on Wii U are (almost?) free. Also, publishers can apparently set their own prices on the eShop, change or discount them at any point.
 
Gif Warz are the new List Warz.
If you can't see why people got excited by X then fine; the reason isn't the mech, its that it actually seems like a continuation of what Soft has been doing and isn't something you'll find elsewhere.

If it was Skyrim with better visuals no one would really care until we got more info.
X showed the info people needed to see; thats why they made gifs of the stuff.

Why the fuck are gifs being used as an argument in any way?
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I don't think I even want to sift through and find out how this topic became about X.GIF again. That shits become even more tragic than the much derided Killzone gif era in an even shorter period of time.

Really, what Nintendo should have been doing this gen, is what Microsoft did with select properties with the 360 and so on where they funded the TV advertising campaigns to blanket bomb Dead Rising and Lost Planet into peoples eyes, as well as others. The onus is on them unfortunately to prove non-Mario non-Nintendo games sell on their system otherwise why would third parties want to tango with this hardcore fanbases penchant for buying the recycled franchises and nothing else.
 

wsippel

Banned
Wii U has a lot of more difficult to work with an open world game than ps3, main ram is not adeguate to the edram 'bottleneck'; if you looks to Assassins Creed 3, you can see what I mean. With a lot of NPC & transparancies, Wii U goes in big troubles; the double of the RAM is almost useless in this case.
An open world requires more RAM, not faster RAM. The issues you're seeing with AC3 are completely different and specific to the way that game was designed. It has nothing to do with the game being open world.
 

farnham

Banned
I don't see what's wrong with that. They're both basically the same generation. Genre doesn't matter as they're visual comparisons. X's not really that impressive.

Monolith's X has japanese mecha "art" styling. Which is not about tech but about "artistic choices". PS3 +X360 can pull off similar looking visuals. Just look at FFXIII. its awful but its similar

its also TBD and won't see light of day til 2014 (i'm going to say august). By then, we'd be 9 months into next gen. By then, you'd have some really amazing looking D+O games out. Some 1st parties, some 3rd parties.

Lets not lose track of what this thread is about.

There is a big difference as you probably can go out of the mech and visit each nook and cranny and if there is a village there would be detailled buildings with npcs that you can actuakly go in rather than just plain environments that you can destroy and nothing more.

But yeah whatever makes sony look good
 

omonimo

Banned
An open world requires more RAM, not faster RAM. The issues you're seeing with AC3 are completely different and specific to the way that game was designed. It has nothing to do with the game being open world.

I repeat to you, without a proper bandwith, it's completely useless. Not needs to be an expert to understand this simple thing. But if you are talking of desert landscape, without life & grass, yeah but even ps360 could give the same thing. Maybe WiiU could give higher texture res in some part, but nothing more.
 

farnham

Banned
Actual source?

Where did he say it, what is the exact quote, etc. The idea of a 3rd party ND has been thrown about loads but has NEVER been backed up.

Look at the end of the video iwata says that there will be a 3ds nintendo direct and a third party nintendo direct. Its after the x announcement.
 

farnham

Banned

wsippel

Banned
I repeat to you, without a proper bandwith, it's completely useless. Not needs to be an expert to understand this simple thing. But if you are talking of desert landscape, without life & grass, yeah but even ps360 could give the same thing.
Do you even know what the bandwidth is needed for? Obviously not. You don't need to be an expert to understand this, but it's apparently not as simple as you think, as you obviously don't understand it.

And I guess you should watch the actual trailer, because there is vegetation and there are creatures roaming the field. It's just that the camera in the GIF is so high above the ground that you can't see them.
 

AzaK

Member
The thing that gamers and publishers both seem to forget is that the worldwide economy and industry climate of 2006 is really different from 2013. First and forest, we suffered a major economic crisis only a few years ago that many people still haven't recovered from. People in 2006 could afford to throw a few hundred dollars at a Wii and some games, but that may just not be the case anymore.

Combined with the slow trickle of worthwhile software, it really shouldn't be surprising that the Wii U hasn't rocketed out of the sales gate - although given the circumstances, it seems to be performing well, falling only a little short of what the Wii managed in the same time span. Developers' expectations for a new console thus seem terribly skewed. The litmus test will really be the release of Microsoft and Sony's news consoles later this year - they may equally fail to take off initially, especially since they'll likely be priced higher than the Wii U. This Christmas will be quite interesting.
Thing is, even if they struggle third parties will support them. The HD twins are their bread and butter. Then throw in Nintendo for the extra casual revenue with things like Just Dance.
 
There is a big difference as you probably can go out of the mech and visit each nook and cranny and if there is a village there would be detailled buildings with npcs that you can actuakly go in rather than just plain environments that you can destroy and nothing more.

But yeah whatever makes sony look good

that shit is LOD dependent and the world/data is streamed in and that's how it works. There's been xyz open world games on x360 and ps3 and you guys are making it sound like X is doing gods work. Its not.

this has got nothing to do with sony or nintendo.
 

ozfunghi

Member
I repeat to you, without a proper bandwith, it's completely useless. Not needs to be an expert to understand this simple thing. But if you are talking of desert landscape, without life & grass, yeah but even ps360 could give the same thing. Maybe WiiU could give higher texture res in some part, but nothing more.

Yeah, you tell wsippel! He obviously has no idea what he's talking about. lol

you might want to drop the discussion because there is no way you are going to win the debate. His pinky toe is likely to be more tech savy than you. Also, do you really think Nintendo put in that amount of RAM if it's basically useless?

wsippel's post is ignorance.

lol
 
wsippel's post is ignorance.

Do you even know what the bandwidth is needed for? Obviously not. You don't need to be an expert to understand this, but it's apparently not as simple as you think, as you obviously don't understand it.

And I guess you should watch the actual trailer, because there is vegetation and there are creatures roaming the field. It's just that the camera in the GIF is so high above the ground that you can't see them

lol

maybe you should read up on LOD+drawdistance works son.
 

MYE

Member
Looked like a mech game from the original Xbox to be honest. The terrain/world looks muted and ugly. Pretty bland looking gif. I'm obviously not assessing the final product, as I haven't even seen the game in motion. The gif, however, is not impressive to me. I honestly thought it was a gif from an old game that people were using to mean "I'm out of this thread."

Hahaha oh ahaha
If this isnt bottom of the barrel trolling I dont know what is.
 

farnham

Banned
MSNBU is not selling the WiiU right now is it? And what kind of ridiculous statement that third party can´t do anything. They can do plenty but they don´t want to.

whatever wiius were sold were sold on behalf of NSMBU and nintendoland. and im not saying third parties wouldnt be able to contribute to wiius success. im just saying that they didnt contribute to wii and they wont contribute to wiiu
that shit is LOD dependent and the world/data is streamed in and that's how it works. There's been xyz open world games on x360 and ps3 and you guys are making it sound like X is doing gods work. Its not.

this has got nothing to do with sony or nintendo.
oh im sure you would be drooling all over xenoblade or x if it was not on wii or wiiu (not that i care. i prefer the last story anyways)
 

AOC83

Banned
whatever wiius were sold were sold on behalf of NSMBU and nintendoland. and im not saying third parties wouldnt be able to contribute to wiius success. im just saying that they didnt contribute to wii and they wont contribute to wiiu
oh im sure you would be drooling all over xenoblade or x if it was not on wii or wiiu (not that i care. i prefer the last story anyways)

Why should anybody drool over a game with good but not spectacular looking current gen graphics?
 
Red Dead Redemption for example. Just Cause 2 was also mentioned in this thread (haven´t played it though).
Yes, these two, expecially rdr comes a bit in that direction. So that's reason to be excited imo.
And let's not forget that this gif is clearly from a very rough version.
 
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