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[MaulerX]

Guys is there any credibility at all to the rumor that the Durango may feature an IBM CPU instead of an AMD one? Or we can disregard this rumor completely?

I have heard this one a lot over the last few days, but I still don't know it's origin.

I'm secretly rooting for this but who knows. If it's true they have different MB designs then anything is possible. Then VGleaks can claim to have had accurate info on, well, one of the designs. IBM CPU might be detrimental for hardware BC.

One thing almost seems certain to me though, the timing of Microsoft's XBL full game fire sale almost looks like a preemptive next Gen marketing stunt. Throw current 360 owners a massive bone then announce that everything you bought will carry over. Hook people on their ecosystem.

 

[KidBeta]

but rops and compute do very specific tasks. They alone dont account for some massive gap in power. If that were the case it wouldn't take nvidia or ATI an architecture overhaul to get a 35% increase in yield from their cards, they'd just keep making bigger cards.

Compute does every bit of maths the GPU does :/.

ROPS are the fill rate iirc. They are both vital to the performance of the GPU.

 

[BadAss2961]

Nah man they are downgrading to 1GB DDR1

Nah they'll be going with 720MB RAM cartridges.

 

[Arrogant Menace]

I'm secretly rooting for this but who knows. If it's true they have different MB designs then anything is possible. Then VGleaks can claim to have had accurate info on, well, one of the designs. IBM CPU might be detrimental for hardware BC.

One thing almost seems certain to me though, the timing of Microsoft's XBL full game fire sale almost looks like a preemptive next Gen marketing stunt. Throw current 360 owners a massive bone then announce that everything you bought will carry over. Hook people on their ecosystem.

They have a ton of ex IBM engineers wouldn't surprise me if they found away around BC. idc about multi designs at this point we will have to wait til either A. kits arrive or B. the event. Hopefully MS announces soon cause the sony event feels like ages ago.

 

[Majanew]

Yes.



Which is unlikely, given it's the same architecture. I would even go so far, that quickly ported games will almost automatically perform better on the PS4. And regarding dimishing returns - I am sure devs will use the additional power to improve fidelity where it's actually noticable. After all they have to compete with Sony's first party output, and prettier games will always sell better.

COD is the prettiest game confirmed.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

but rops and compute do very specific tasks. They alone dont account for some massive gap in power. If that were the case it wouldn't take nvidia or ATI an architecture overhaul to get a 35% increase in yield from their cards, they'd just keep making bigger cards.

Compute units are directly responsible for processing power. What are you talking about?

COD is the prettiest game confirmed.

That's not what I meant and you know that. I meant that games like CoD would sell even better if they are prettier.

 

[Reiko]

COD is the prettiest game confirmed.

The feel of 720p.

 

[Arrogant Menace]

Compute units are directly responsible for processing power. What are you talking about?



That's not what I meant and you know that. I meant that games like CoD would sell even better if they are prettier.

crysis and killzone about to sellout day 1!

 

[Phonomezer]

The feel of 720p.

lol

In CoD's defense, nothing other than RAGE looks as good at 60fps on consoles.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Killzone series is some of the prettiest games and well......

What is your point? Do you even understand what I have said? Did I say that graphics are the sole reason for the success of a game? No, I didn't say that. So please stop making shit up.

 

[Arrogant Menace]

What is your point? Do you even understand what I have said? Did I say that graphics are the sole reason for the success of a game? No, I didn't say that. So please stop making shit up.

After all they have to compete with Sony's first party output, and prettier games will always sell better.

thought you was saying pretty games always sell better then lesser looking games, Maybe i misinterpreted what you were trying to say if so sorry

 

[Gemüsepizza]

thought you was saying pretty games always sell better then less then pretty games, Maybe i misinterrupted what you were trying to say if so sorry

It was quite clear what I wanted to say, and I even clarified it further 12/17 minutes before your post. So why don't we continue talking about how the Xbox 3's CPU fails to make up for the more powerful hardware of the PS4, instead of talking about offtopic issues?

 

[Arrogant Menace]

It was quite clear what I wanted to say, and I even clarified myself 12/17 minutes before your post. So why don't we continue talking about how the Xbox 3's CPU fails to make up for the more powerful hardware of the PS4, instead of talking about offtopic issues?

the topic is about the Durango Cpu... not the ps4 but anyway you're right lets get back to talking about the durango.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

the topic is about the Durango Cpu... not the ps4 but anyway you're right lets get back to talking about the durango.

Xbox 3 = Durango

In case you have missed it.

 

[Phonomezer]

Cats are cute.

 

[Krilekk]

They have a ton of ex IBM engineers wouldn't surprise me if they found away around BC. idc about multi designs at this point we will have to wait til either A. kits arrive or B. the event. Hopefully MS announces soon cause the sony event feels like ages ago.

They own the rights to both Xenos and Xenon, it might be possible they're simply putting two APUs in the box, use a couple of cores for OS functions and have basically 1.4 TFlops + 0.3 from 360 chips AND offer full BC. The leaked roadmap showed 720 to have two CPUs and two GPUs (one for multimedia stuff, the other for gaming).

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Sounds like a programmer's nightmare. Two CPUs, two GPUs, eSRAM, eDRAM, GDDR3 and DDR3, ... And how do you get 1.4 TFLOPS + 0.3? Afaik it's 1.228 TFLOPS for GPU, 102 GFLOPS for CPU and 250 GFLOPS for Xbox 360. That would be 1.330 TFLOPS + 0.25.

 

[Krilekk]

Sounds like a programmer's nightmare. Two CPUs, two GPUs, eSRAM, eDRAM, GDDR3 and DDR3, ... And how do you get 1.4 TFLOPS + 0.3? Afaik it's 1.228 TFLOPS for GPU, 102 GFLOPS for CPU and 250 GFLOPS for Xbox 360. That would be 1.330 TFLOPS + 0.25.

The audio chip in 720 is supposed to deliver almost 100 GFlops (special sauce).

 

[googleplex]

From what I understand... based on these leaks we're looking at the PS4 having:

• The same CPU
• 50% more compute units and correspondingly higher maximum FLOPS
• 50% more texture mapping units
• 100% more render output units
• 8GB unified memory at 176GB/s bandwidth vs 8GB DDR3 at 68GB/s with 32MB ESRAM at 102GB/s; so potentially 150% more bandwidth

...over Durango. Is that accurate?

I'm not sure how that would amount to a 20% difference in performance - purely from the magic of mathematics - although the actual outcome may not necessarily be that different if no one utilises that performance and/or diminishing returns set in.

This seems to be accurate right now, as we understand both machines. But why do people and some "insiders" keep saying the PS4 and 720 will be on par with each other? It's very confusing.

 

[iceatcs]

This seems to be accurate right now, as we understand both machines. But why do people and some "insiders" keep saying the PS4 and 720 will be on par with each other? It's very confusing.

To ease the Internet I assume if the rumour true. If I'm insider, I don't want to be the one made the mass meltdown, only want get more followers from both sides.
But likely the specs keep changing.

 

[StevieP]

But likely the specs keep changing.

Nah, not really

 

[Sounddeli]

I still think it will be a dual APU set up, gpu's will be boosted to 900mhz the cpu's at 2.0 ghz. A multi-CPU, multi-GPU system in which one combo is reserved for the Xbox platform (dashboard, video encoding/decoding) and one is reserved for applications (gaming). Just take a read of the Display Planes. Actually I think Sony's upgrades has been a reaction to what they know or heard MS is doing.

 

[brain_stew]

I still think it will be a dual APU set up, gpu's will be boosted to 900mhz the cpu's at 2.0 ghz. A multi-CPU, multi-GPU system in which one combo is reserved for the Xbox platform (dashboard, video encoding/decoding) and one is reserved for applications (gaming). Just take a read of the Display Planes. Actually I think Sony's upgrades has been a reaction to what they know or heard MS is doing.

An 8 core CPU and 1.2TF GPU to run a background OS and video encoding that is already performed by dedicated hardware anyway. Makes perfect sense.

 

[onQ123]

I still think it will be a dual APU set up, gpu's will be boosted to 900mhz the cpu's at 2.0 ghz. A multi-CPU, multi-GPU system in which one combo is reserved for the Xbox platform (dashboard, video encoding/decoding) and one is reserved for applications (gaming). Just take a read of the Display Planes. Actually I think Sony's upgrades has been a reaction to what they know or heard MS is doing.

Maybe that's why Sony added the secret 2TFLOP Ray-tracing Vector Processing Unit?


it all make sense now.


puts on tin foil hat.

 

[KidBeta]

I still think it will be a dual APU set up, gpu's will be boosted to 900mhz the cpu's at 2.0 ghz. A multi-CPU, multi-GPU system in which one combo is reserved for the Xbox platform (dashboard, video encoding/decoding) and one is reserved for applications (gaming). Just take a read of the Display Planes. Actually I think Sony's upgrades has been a reaction to what they know or heard MS is doing.

Yukon was thrown out and was a stupid idea.

Theres no point having 2 GPU's, you just got for one GPU thats 2x The size.

 

[Espada]

This seems to be accurate right now, as we understand both machines. But why do people and some "insiders" keep saying the PS4 and 720 will be on par with each other? It's very confusing.

It's possible that while the hardware differences between the two are substantial, this difference means little when it comes to actual games. This is why a common subject that pops up in these threads is whether or not the difference will be easily discernible.

Another common line of discussion is whether most multi-platform developers will even exploit that extra power. If they don't then the tech advantage is moot, and both will look the same. Related to this is the financial cost: Is it worth the extra staff and manhours?

So I don't feel like it's confusing for the insiders to say they'll be on par with one another, especially since consoles are stepping into diminishing returns land.

 

[tirant]

I still think it will be a dual APU set up, gpu's will be boosted to 900mhz the cpu's at 2.0 ghz. A multi-CPU, multi-GPU system in which one combo is reserved for the Xbox platform (dashboard, video encoding/decoding) and one is reserved for applications (gaming). Just take a read of the Display Planes. Actually I think Sony's upgrades has been a reaction to what they know or heard MS is doing.

Exactly. Sony's upgrade is direct consequence of Microsoft position. If they were confident with their old specs, they wouldn't have gone for the very expensive 8GB version.

That doesn't mean Durango is a beast.

 

[onQ123]

Exactly. Sony's upgrade is direct consequence of Microsoft position. If they were confident with their old specs, they wouldn't have gone for the very expensive 8GB version.

That doesn't mean Durango is a beast.

Or Sony could have seen that XBox 3 & Wii U was going lower spec & decided to go for the high end market alone like the Wii did for the low end market Last Gen.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

I think the vgleaks specs are real, but I don't know what this mean:

"New products?"

He,Eric Mejdrich and Matt Tubb(all working for MS IEB now) also have patent about ray tracing,according to 2ch

http://www.logsoku.com/r/ghard/1360665976/818
http://www.logsoku.com/r/ghard/1360665976/822

 

[Phonomezer]

MS going with IBM? What?

 

[eso76]

Exactly. Sony's upgrade is direct consequence of Microsoft position. If they were confident with their old specs, they wouldn't have gone for the very expensive 8GB version.

That doesn't mean Durango is a beast.

the feeling i got was that Microsoft drove Sony to upgrade every single part of the PS4 to best Durango.
Maybe they're trying to make them go bankrupt selling at a loss

I still think we haven't heard the whole story about xbox720 though

 

[Brad Grenz]

Exactly. Sony's upgrade is direct consequence of Microsoft position. If they were confident with their old specs, they wouldn't have gone for the very expensive 8GB version.

That doesn't mean Durango is a beast.

MS would have used RAM as a wedge issue if they'd had 8GB and PS4 only had 4. By bumping up to 8GB Sony gives devs what they wanted while denying Microsoft any technical advantages to brag about.

 

[mrklaw]

Exactly. Sony's upgrade is direct consequence of Microsoft position. If they were confident with their old specs, they wouldn't have gone for the very expensive 8GB version.

That doesn't mean Durango is a beast.

or its a direct consequence of developers saying they want 8GB (same message they'd have given MS), and chip densities allowing them to meet that goal.

Its pretty much purely a cost Vs time issue. Sony would have architected based on 2Gb chips to give them a 4GB system, with the aim to switch to 4Gb chips if volumes allowed in time. Good strategy IMO rather than going for a much more complex board layout with 2Gb chips.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

MS going with IBM? What?

Don't know,just found some wired info.

 

[Kaako]

Exactly. Sony's upgrade is direct consequence of Microsoft position. If they were confident with their old specs, they wouldn't have gone for the very expensive 8GB version.

That doesn't mean Durango is a beast.

Yes. That is exactly what this means. Durango is a beast, confirmed

Spoiler

by tirant

. Now someone make a thread at B3D with this confirmation please.

 

[eso76]

Exactly. Sony's upgrade is direct consequence of Microsoft position. If they were confident with their old specs, they wouldn't have gone for the very expensive 8GB version.

That doesn't mean Durango is a beast.

the feeling i got was that Microsoft drove Sony to upgrade every single part of the PS4 to best Durango.
Maybe they're trying to make them go bankrupt selling at a loss

I still think we haven't heard the whole story about xbox720 though

 

[shinra-bansho]

Exactly. Sony's upgrade is direct consequence of Microsoft position. If they were confident with their old specs, they wouldn't have gone for the very expensive 8GB version.

It's a direct consequence of appropriate chips becoming available.

 

[goonergaz]

It's possible that while the hardware differences between the two are substantial, this difference means little when it comes to actual games. This is why a common subject that pops up in these threads is whether or not the difference will be easily discernible.

Another common line of discussion is whether most multi-platform developers will even exploit that extra power. If they don't then the tech advantage is moot, and both will look the same. Related to this is the financial cost: Is it worth the extra staff and manhours?

So I don't feel like it's confusing for the insiders to say they'll be on par with one another, especially since consoles are stepping into diminishing returns land.

I don't get this line of thought - if you look at Xbox vs PS2 devs used the extra power so why not now?

Also if both are essentially the same architecture but PS4 (say) 20% more grunt isn't it possible that (like when someone might upgrade their gfx card) all of a sudden an XB3 game can run at higher settings/features on PS4?

 

[Linkified]

I don't get this line of thought - if you look at Xbox vs PS2 devs used the extra power so why not now?

Also if both are essentially the same architecture but PS4 (say) 20% more grunt isn't it possible that (like when someone might upgrade their gfx card) all of a sudden an XB3 game can run at higher settings/features on PS4?

Because games cost a lot more money to make the tentpole releases?

Honestly this time around it would not surprise me if MS maybe even Sony take the Apple model, where each release has the same architecture but they improve the parts with each release. So that they don't have to go with a generational shift ever again, but have the consoles evolve in terms of both the CPU and GPU.

 

[KidBeta]

The audio chip in 720 is supposed to deliver almost 100 GFlops (special sauce).

Whats the GFLOPs of the audio chip in the PS4?. And this special bottle seems to be running out pretty quickly.

 

[goonergaz]

Because games cost a lot more money to make the tentpole releases?

Honestly this time around it would not surprise me if MS maybe even Sony take the Apple model, where each release has the same architecture but they improve the parts with each release. So that they don't have to go with a generational shift ever again, but have the consoles evolve in terms of both the CPU and GPU.

Higher res & more frames = free surely...it's 'just' a matter of changing the settings like on a PC?

Also with the consoles being easier to program for and even easier to cross develop then devs should be able to concentrate more on content/quality over trying to re-write/shoe-horn games from one platform to the other.

 

[onQ123]

He,Eric Mejdrich and Matt Tubb(all working for MS IEB now) also have patent about ray tracing,according to 2ch

http://www.logsoku.com/r/ghard/1360665976/818
http://www.logsoku.com/r/ghard/1360665976/822

 

[amstradcpc]

The only thing with sense would be 2xAPUs in a SOC like the VGleaks has leaked.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Most of them joined MS at 2012

Also i remember last week when i visited 2ch(Japanese BBS) Durango thread,they found out there are 8 IBM persons joined MS at 2010 or 2012,And 4 of them are about PPC A2
Not saying MS will use PowerPC,but it's pretty wired,maybe for BC?
http://www.logsoku.com/r/ghard/1360665976/776
http://www.logsoku.com/r/ghard/1360665976/779

 

[JaggedSac]

So not knowing what is inside and their costs, you have a guess?

Yes. Is that not allowed here?

 

[Lord Error]

Guys is there any credibility at all to the rumor that the Durango may feature an IBM CPU instead of an AMD one? Or we can disregard this rumor completely?

I have heard this one a lot over the last few days, but I still don't know it's origin.

Deadmeat is desperately trying to plug that rumor, which is not really a rumor but rather his 'analysis' of how that's the only possible option given what foundry next Xbox is allegedly going to be built in (and the foundry of course comes from another rumor...)

 

[Osiris]

Deadmeat is desperately trying to plug that rumor, which is not really a rumor but rather his 'analysis' of how that's the only possible option given what foundry next Xbox is allegedly going to be built in (and the foundry of course comes from another rumor...)

It's Deadmeat, his analysis will remain fact until it is finally proven he was wrong, at which point he will claim that Microsoft changed their plans last minute and he was right all along until those plans changed.

Some things don't change, Deadmeats lack of IQ is one of those things

 

[AgentP]

Yes. Is that not allowed here?

No that is great, a price breakdown on an unannounced hardware unit with complete ignorance of what is inside.

 

[KidBeta]

I do not think this is happening.

 

[kikonawa]

I do not think this is happening.

Lol