• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Kotaku: "Only 90% of Xbox One GPU usable for games"- PS4 GPU up to 66% more powerful?

M

Madness

Member
People need to explain this in gamecube terms for the rest of us. Just how many gamecubes powerful is the ps4 and how many gamecubes is it more powerful than the Xbox One? Lol thanks.

But all kidding aside, wouldn't the superiority be lessened if, much like this gen, the Xbox One is the lead platform to develop on.
 
M

Mario007

Member
Madness said:
People need to explain this in gamecube terms for the rest of us. Just how many gamecubes powerful is the ps4 and how many gamecubes is it more powerful than the Xbox One? Lol thanks.

But all kidding aside, wouldn't the superiority be lessened if, much like this gen, the Xbox One is the lead platform to develop on.
Click to expand...
I've seen a comparison made on GAF that Xbone + Wii U= PS4. Not sure how accurate it is.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Madness said:
People need to explain this in gamecube terms for the rest of us. Just how many gamecubes powerful is the ps4 and how many gamecubes is it more powerful than the Xbox One? Lol thanks.

But all kidding aside, wouldn't the superiority be lessened if, much like this gen, the Xbox One is the lead platform to develop on.
Click to expand...

Guess it's unrealistic to expect PC to be lead platform this time round?

I think the lead platform will PS4 for the simple fact that they seem to have been more progressive in their developments tools this time round. MS seem to be lagging behind somewhat...
 
D

DBT85

Member
Madness said:
People need to explain this in gamecube terms for the rest of us. Just how many gamecubes powerful is the ps4 and how many gamecubes is it more powerful than the Xbox One? Lol thanks.

But all kidding aside, wouldn't the superiority be lessened if, much like this gen, the Xbox One is the lead platform to develop on.
Click to expand...

We have to look at why the XB360 was the lead platform last time out.

It was easier to develop for
The PS3 dev tools were fucking dreadful
The PS3 had a very complicated architecture compared to the XB360
It was out a year and in places 16 months earlier than PS3
It was cheaper than the PS3


This time around
They use a similar architecture
PS4 dev tools are reportedly better than XBONE at this moment in time (still unsure about that)
They should launch around the same time
They could well be a similar price

Even if the XBONE is the lead platform, devs shouldn't have too much trouble turning it up to 11 for the PS4 version as they are essentially fairly similar. Totally unlike the PS360 generation.
 
G

Gemüsepizza

Member
Mario007 said:
I've seen a comparison made on GAF that Xbone + Wii U= PS4. Not sure how accurate it is.
Click to expand...

Difference between Xbox One and PS4 is ~600+ GFLOPS and 2 GB usable RAM, WiiU has afaik about 300 GFLOPS and 1 GB usable RAM, so it's probably more likely Xbox One + 2xWiiU = PS4 (of course it's not that easy ^^).
 
J

Johnny M

Member
PS4=Vegeta: Just looking for raw potential, focus on fight. Hard training to be at the same power level of Goku (sometimes he is), but at the end of the day he is just behind. His father was the king of the planet.

PC=Goku: Fighting since he was born, always ready to help the humanity. He has died several times, and resurrected as well, always at the top. His father in law is a "good-natured" bearded man. :)3).

XB1=Gohan: Was very powerful in his first years, now he wears weird clothes and uses dumb gadgets. (according to the prophecy from an old guy) he has inside some secret unlimited power.

Wii-U=Mr.Satan/Hercule: Scared from the rest of the fighters, although he usually try to show the opposite (confidence in himself), underpowered. Almost everybody trust him and enjoyed his past background, thanks to that, he will save humanity with the help of Goku and Vegeta.
 
N

Ninja Moomin

Banned
Has shown shown their OS working or how much of it works in game or what the in game features might be? How can any now what the overhead might be before that?
 
D

DieH@rd

Banned
Miles Quaritch said:
Anyone who posts on/browses B3D want to chime in on the claim by specialguy?
Click to expand...

Cloud bullshit needs to stop, at least in the terms of it helping the game to render better visuals in real time. ~95% of the game rendering pipeline requires extremely fast access times, and the remaining 5% could receive help from cloud but it would not be much. Global Illumination states could be rendered on cloud and buffered to the console for later use [no one will notice if global lightning is off by 5 minutes of sun travel time], or cloud can work on "world AI" calculation for MMO/Skyrim type games. That means providing consoles with general AI states of groups of people [factions], not individual NPC-s. As for GI states, bluray is big and a lot of them can be stored there.

And for those who want for cloud to magically start ignoring lightspeed limit, packet loss, server load balance and start helping real rendering pipeline, you need to face reality. Killzone Shadowfall uses 6MB of RAM to calculate AI. Majority of those 6MB is refreshed every frame, which means that for 30fps game you need to have 180MB/s internet connection speed [or 1.4gbit, which is is faster than LAN controllers can provide in PS4/X1 console and your PC]. Of course, AI data can be smaller, but still, user that have perfect 8mbit [1MB/s] internet access all the time [no family memebers watching netflix on other device :D ] will recieve only 34 KB of data per each frame of 30fps game [half of that in 60fps game]. If the game can really take advantage from that measly ammount of data, sure, go for it. Users with data caps will also spend 3.5 GB of data per hour. Not cool.


Microsoft Studios corporate vice president Phil Spencer has clearly stated hard truth:
“Cloud is a really interesting place to invest and we're investing a ton in the cloud,” Spencer told IGN. “Whether cloud rendering ends up being the killer cloud feature, I'm a little skeptical that will be where game designers will actually see the promise of the cloud paying off in their games. We're seeing a lot of our studios putting that power toward the experience that's running locally on the Xbox One and how the combined capabilities of the device and servers in the sky create a more immersive experience."
http://ap.ign.com/en/news/6766/microsoft-skeptical-of-cloud-hints-at-xbox-one-cross-platform-play

As expected, cloud is great for managing communities and sharing data between devices, but its far away from directly helping rendering of the local games.
 
V

Vampirolol

Member
Johnny M said:
PS4=Vegeta: Just looking for raw potential, focus on fight. Hard training to be at the same power level of Goku (sometimes he is), but at the end of the day he is just behind. His father was the king of the planet.

PC=Goku: Fighting since he was born, always ready to help the humanity. He has died several times, and resurrected as well, always at the top. His father in law is a "good-natured" bearded man. :)3).

XB1=Gohan: Was very powerful in his first years, now he wears weird clothes and uses dumb gadgets. (according to the prophecy from an old guy) he has inside some secret unlimited power.

Wii-U=Mr.Satan/Hercule: Scared from the rest of the fighters, although he usually try to show the opposite (confidence in himself), underpowered. Almost everybody trust him and enjoyed his past background, thanks to that, he will save humanity with the help of Goku and Vegeta.
Click to expand...
Died on Gohan.
 
C

c0de

Member
so what now? the article says a lot more than that and it seems ps4-devs also have only access to 6 cores. still an interesting read given the different states a game can have.
 
V

velociraptor

Junior Member
Johnny M said:
PS4=Vegeta: Just looking for raw potential, focus on fight. Hard training to be at the same power level of Goku (sometimes he is), but at the end of the day he is just behind. His father was the king of the planet.

PC=Goku: Fighting since he was born, always ready to help the humanity. He has died several times, and resurrected as well, always at the top. His father in law is a "good-natured" bearded man. :)3).

XB1=Gohan: Was very powerful in his first years, now he wears weird clothes and uses dumb gadgets. (according to the prophecy from an old guy) he has inside some secret unlimited power.

Wii-U=Mr.Satan/Hercule: Scared from the rest of the fighters, although he usually try to show the opposite (confidence in himself), underpowered. Almost everybody trust him and enjoyed his past background, thanks to that, he will save humanity with the help of Goku and Vegeta.
Click to expand...

Rofl.
 
E

Erasus

Member
Ninja Moomin said:
Has shown shown their OS working or how much of it works in game or what the in game features might be? How can any now what the overhead might be before that?
Click to expand...

Sony showed parts of it, the streaming games part for example. Rest was just images. Devs have sid 1GB for OS but that could be devkits or change. We dont know.
 
C

CryoLombax

Member
Johnny M said:
PS4=Vegeta: Just looking for raw potential, focus on fight. Hard training to be at the same power level of Goku (sometimes he is), but at the end of the day he is just behind. His father was the king of the planet.

PC=Goku: Fighting since he was born, always ready to help the humanity. He has died several times, and resurrected as well, always at the top. His father in law is a "good-natured" bearded man. :)3).

XB1=Gohan: Was very powerful in his first years, now he wears weird clothes and uses dumb gadgets. (according to the prophecy from an old guy) he has inside some secret unlimited power.

Wii-U=Mr.Satan/Hercule: Scared from the rest of the fighters, although he usually try to show the opposite (confidence in himself), underpowered. Almost everybody trust him and enjoyed his past background, thanks to that, he will save humanity with the help of Goku and Vegeta.
Click to expand...

Lmaoooo
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
DieH@rd said:
Cloud bullshit needs to stop, at least in the terms of it helping the game to render better visuals in real time. ~95% of the game rendering pipeline requires extremely fast access times, and the remaining 5% could receive help from cloud but it would not be much. Global Illumination states could be rendered on cloud and buffered to the console for later use [no one will notice if global lightning is off by 5 minutes of sun travel time], or cloud can work on "world AI" calculation for MMO/Skyrim type games. That means providing consoles with general AI states of groups of people [factions], not individual NPC-s. As for GI states, bluray is big and a lot of them can be stored there.

And for those who want for cloud to magically start ignoring lightspeed limit, packet loss, server load balance and start helping real rendering pipeline, you need to face reality. Killzone Shadowfall uses 6MB of RAM to calculate AI. Majority of those 6MB is refreshed every frame, which means that for 30fps game you need to have 180MB/s internet connection speed [or 1.4gbit, which is is faster than LAN controllers can provide in PS4/X1 console and your PC]. Of course, AI data can be smaller, but still, user that have perfect 8mbit [1MB/s] internet access all the time [no family memebers watching netflix on other device :D ] will recieve only 34 KB of data per each frame of 30fps game [half of that in 60fps game]. If the game can really take advantage from that measly ammount of data, sure, go for it. Users with data caps will also spend 3.5 GB of data per hour. Not cool.


Microsoft Studios corporate vice president Phil Spencer has clearly stated hard truth:
“Cloud is a really interesting place to invest and we're investing a ton in the cloud,” Spencer told IGN. “Whether cloud rendering ends up being the killer cloud feature, I'm a little skeptical that will be where game designers will actually see the promise of the cloud paying off in their games. We're seeing a lot of our studios putting that power toward the experience that's running locally on the Xbox One and how the combined capabilities of the device and servers in the sky create a more immersive experience."
http://ap.ign.com/en/news/6766/microsoft-skeptical-of-cloud-hints-at-xbox-one-cross-platform-play

As expected, cloud is great for managing communities and sharing data between devices, but its far away from directly helping rendering of the local games.
Click to expand...

I was actually talking about the PS4 OS ram speculation. Sorry my post should have been clearer, but thanks for the cloud info.

Seems more and more like vapour with each passing day.

shinra-bansho said:
The closest I can find at quick glance that comes anywhere near what he claimed is ERP saying that Sony haven't publicly stated their OS RAM reserve and that the 7:1 number is just speculation at present.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It's an odd claim, first time I've ever heard anyone say they were reserving 3gb for the OS. Doesn't make much sense, Sony aren't exactly running 3 OS's.
 
Eliciel

Eliciel

Member
Johnny M said:
PS4=Vegeta: Just looking for raw potential, focus on fight. Hard training to be at the same power level of Goku (sometimes he is), but at the end of the day he is just behind. His father was the king of the planet.

PC=Goku: Fighting since he was born, always ready to help the humanity. He has died several times, and resurrected as well, always at the top. His father in law is a "good-natured" bearded man. :)3).

XB1=Gohan: Was very powerful in his first years, now he wears weird clothes and uses dumb gadgets. (according to the prophecy from an old guy) he has inside some secret unlimited power.

Wii-U=Mr.Satan/Hercule: Scared from the rest of the fighters, although he usually try to show the opposite (confidence in himself), underpowered. Almost everybody trust him and enjoyed his past background, thanks to that, he will save humanity with the help of Goku and Vegeta.
Click to expand...

dead on target.
 
S

SlickShoesRUCrazy

Member
So 10 percent of the gpu, 2 cpu cores and 3 gigs of ram to run the damn things OS.

Anybody realize that is like more then the minimum system requirements to run windows?

What the fuck is going at Microsoft.
 
A

AzaK

Member
schennmu said:
Just like all PS3 and 360 multiplats were the same, right? And power gap is much bigger this time and one of the consoles has a better architecture as well.

The very least the PS4 will get are better/more stable framerates. And that is if devs are not trying.

Calling bs on this new rumor for now though.
Click to expand...
Apart from some outliers they were pretty much the same and they both were damned different machines. The PS4 might get more stable frame rates only if they push so hard the XBOX falters. In the end I expect it to be neither here nor there except for the obvious first party.
 
M

Moral Panic

Member
It's safe to assume that PS4 has 2 cores locked away for OS as well (pg15 Killzone:SF pdf). Then probably X amount of GPU and at least 1GB of RAM. We know that XB1's GPU isn't as fast so it probably doesn't need all that much memory. Then 10% of GPU isn't all that much, I'd guess that PS4 will dedicate 1CU out of the 18 for OS, so maybe 6-7% lost.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
People doubting Kotaku when they have been on the money with everything so far? Their editorial is trash, but let's not pretend Kotaku doesn't have some great sources.
 
Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
AzaK said:
Apart from some outliers they were pretty much the same and they both were damned different machines. The PS4 might get more stable frame rates only if they push so hard the XBOX falters. In the end I expect it to be neither here nor there except for the obvious first party.
Click to expand...

But you said multiplats would be the same?
PS360 multiplats were superior on 360 99% of the time even though the power difference was much closer. Power gulf is bigger this time, so we can expect bigger differences. And looking at the shitty framerates (sub 30fps) we usually see on consoles, it's not far fetched that devs will push the machines like they did last gen.

The extent is still unknown of course and mileage will vary. Expect Criterion games to have parity as they are masters at it.
 
E

Erasus

Member
jordan0386 said:
Resource hog like a PC. Made by Microsoft.

I'm surprised people are surprised.
Click to expand...

Basic OS does not take much. Win 7/8 runs on singlecores with 1GB RAM. That said once you start an app, things bog down. But the Windows kernel is a well-made kernel actually. Dont drag PC into this
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Miles Quaritch said:
Thanks, pretty surprising then that Sony managed to include those features without a significant hit to their GPU, etc.
Click to expand...

The PS4 most likely won't be able to run stuff side-by-side the way the XBO can (which I'm guessing is why 10% of the GPU power must be reserved for that stuff at all times). It will be able to suspend games and switch over to doing other stuff, but that just means keeping the gamestate in RAM. While you're doing that, no CPU nor GPU power is required by the game, and can instead go toward whatever task you're currently doing. Once you switch back to the game, all that power once again becomes available.

Now, I'm not saying this means games have access too 100% of the CPU and 100% of the GPU. Of course not. There will always be some background OS stuff going on while you're playing, there will be GUI overlays and popups, etc, so some power will be reserved for that. But the fact that you (as far as we know) won't be able to run things side-by-side, instead just rendering either the game or something else at any particular time, should mean that games don't have to give up more than a very tiny amount of GPU power.
 
M

Moonlight

Banned
Johnny M said:
PS4=Vegeta: Just looking for raw potential, focus on fight. Hard training to be at the same power level of Goku (sometimes he is), but at the end of the day he is just behind. His father was the king of the planet.

PC=Goku: Fighting since he was born, always ready to help the humanity. He has died several times, and resurrected as well, always at the top. His father in law is a "good-natured" bearded man. :)3).

XB1=Gohan: Was very powerful in his first years, now he wears weird clothes and uses dumb gadgets. (according to the prophecy from an old guy) he has inside some secret unlimited power.

Wii-U=Mr.Satan/Hercule: Scared from the rest of the fighters, although he usually try to show the opposite (confidence in himself), underpowered. Almost everybody trust him and enjoyed his past background, thanks to that, he will save humanity with the help of Goku and Vegeta.
Click to expand...
This thread is fucking delivering.
 
S

sub_o

Member
Johnny M said:
PS4=Vegeta: Just looking for raw potential, focus on fight. Hard training to be at the same power level of Goku (sometimes he is), but at the end of the day he is just behind. His father was the king of the planet.

PC=Goku: Fighting since he was born, always ready to help the humanity. He has died several times, and resurrected as well, always at the top. His father in law is a "good-natured" bearded man. :)3).

XB1=Gohan: Was very powerful in his first years, now he wears weird clothes and uses dumb gadgets. (according to the prophecy from an old guy) he has inside some secret unlimited power.

Wii-U=Mr.Satan/Hercule: Scared from the rest of the fighters, although he usually try to show the opposite (confidence in himself), underpowered. Almost everybody trust him and enjoyed his past background, thanks to that, he will save humanity with the help of Goku and Vegeta.
Click to expand...

I believe Ouya is Mr. Satan. Get lots of attention, go stand in parking lot.
 
J

jordan0386

Member
Erasus said:
Basic OS does not take much. Win 7/8 runs on singlecores with 1GB RAM. That said once you start an app, things bog down. But the Windows kernel is a well-made kernel actually. Dont drag PC into this
Click to expand...

Action Adventure game running. Friend calls you on Skype. Tells you to GameFAG a walkthrough real quick...
 
T

thuway

Member
Back when Sony only had 4 GB of RAM available for the machine, I heard numbers being thrown around that were as small as 512 mb and as high as 2 GB. I have never heard 3 GB. Specialguy has an agenda that has been transparent from the get go.
 
T

tipoo

Banned
So 1GB reserved for the ps4 OS seems to be the going rumor, have we heard anything on how many CPU cores games can use or what percent of GPU resources? 2 cores for the OS sounds about right, I suppose they could shave it down to one but that would be an odd choice.
 
T

tipoo

Banned
Mario007 said:
I've seen a comparison made on GAF that Xbone + Wii U= PS4. Not sure how accurate it is.
Click to expand...

The delta between the One and 4 GPUs seems to be 0.6Tflops, or 600GFLOPS (I'm ignoring this 10% thing because we don't know if the ps4does the same). That would be on the very high end of estimates for the Wii U GPU. Most are around 300-500 I think. I believe the median guess would be around 350 for the Latte I would assume, most people saying 300 and some going way higher.
 
R

Ryuuga

Banned
7da.gif
 
tea_and_crumpets

tea_and_crumpets

Member
GUYS, Guys....please.

'The Cloud' will beam in extra graphics so the XBone will always be more powerful.

More Cloud = more graphics.

Always on = always better.
 
A

aeolist

Banned
the really interesting part of this is that if true it means the Windows 8 VM has dedicated access to a certain section of the GPU, which means that AMD has worked out real GPU virtualization and i thought that nvidia was ahead there

at this point though it's really looking like they should have just added an ARM SoC to the system to run the Windows side of things, it would have been pretty cheap and they already ported the kernel to ARMv7. it would add maybe $20 to the cost but they're already behind sony in both cost and power so it would seem worthwhile to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

60% of playtime went to games 6 years and older...
2 3 4
182
8K
Danjin44 replied
Do game developers still want to publish on Xbox? A survey of independents and small studios
39
2K
SNG32 replied
PS5 and Xbox Series X’s GPU Differences Will Become More of a Factor in a Year or Two – Caverns of Mars: Recharged Dev
News Game Dev Hardware 2 3
101
8K
MasterCornholio replied
Phil Spencer interview - Says that their intent is for all Xbox games, including Call of Duty, to be available on Xbox Game Pass Day One
2 3
102
8K
Kenneth Haight replied
Digital Foundry: Hogwarts Legacy Last-Gen - PS4/PS4 Pro/Xbox One/One X
Analysis Review Hardware 2
56
6K
Bojji replied
Top Bottom