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Man dead after 'knife attack' in Woolwich

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Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
digoutyoursoul said:
Just saw the press conference from Lee's family, was tough to watch, they are heart broken :( thoughts are with them
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I am still angry at the TV networks for showing the footage of the nutter with the knife and the blood on his hands, giving him his platform. It pisses me off even more to think Lee's family could have seen it, I have never thought of putting in a complaint against a TV channel before but I am going to against ITV.
 
C

Choke on the Magic

Banned
Nicktendo86 said:
I am still angry at the TV networks for showing the footage of the nutter with the knife and the blood on his hands, giving him his platform. It pisses me off even more to think Lee's family could have seen it, I have never thought of putting in a complaint against a TV channel before but I am going to against ITV.
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Well maybe. I think the world needs to see how awful these people with this fundamentalist ideology are. I mean just look at the interview the killers teacher gave to a Reuters reporter.
 
F

F#A#Oo

Banned
Hoya Destroyer said:
I can see how removing Saddam allowed the people to fight with each other, but shouldnt the people themselves, take some responsibility for their actions?
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There was no proposals to empower the Iraqi people.

The kurds were given the north because they helped topple saddam and the Shi'a went from outer-ring power to full central power and the Sunni are like wtf yo?

Eventually they will learn to play nice or they'll be wiping each other out in doing so...
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
I'm not sure what MI5 could have done, they just had knives and a car, it isn't like they were sourcing explosives or something obvious.

What do they expect the security services to do? Monitor cutlery?.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
PJV3 said:
I'm not sure what MI5 could have done, they just had knives and a car, it isn't like they were sourcing explosives or something obvious.

What do they expect the security services to do? Monitor cutlery?.
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Indeed. Although they were known to to MI5 and the neighbour of the younger guy mentioned that he changed radically over the last year.

I'd say such a radical transformation would demand a more in depth investigation or perhaps even a friendly questioning/chat. It's tough though, single a group of people out too much and you create an environment of distrust, where the general feeling og authorities are out to get you, etc becomes the default way of thinking.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
TCRS said:
Daniel Hannan: Don't glamourise these losers by treating them as international terrorists
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Bang on the money. Absolutely agree with everything said, this especially,

Treat the Woolwich abomination like a crime: an unusually nauseating crime, to be sure, but a crime rather than an ideological act. Let the police deal with it. Spare us the Churchillian rhetoric. If you absolutely must meet in Cobra, call it by its pedestrian full name: Cabinet Office Briefing Room A.

Let people see these men for the losers they are, with their underpants bombs, their belief that you can set glass-and-concrete airports on fire by driving into them, their tendency to blow themselves up in error, their childishly self-obsessed statements. Trumpet the sheer banality of their evil.
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H

hym

Banned
RK9039 said:
This is interesting, slightly relevant to the discussion (well the discussion about foreign policy I mean, not the terrorist attack):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEQviZPyeXk

Thoughts?

He made some good points.
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I've been reading Michael Scheuer's blog for a while now so obviously I already value his message. To hear him speak in person I'm again saddened he left the CIA, I'm sure there are more who share his viewpoints but I'm under the impression they are in a minority since they obviously fail to convince administrations or in a worst case scenario their agenda doesn't involve the best interests of Americans.

The hypocrisy of the Middle East policy continues full force, look up the Bahrain (Arab Spring) protests and the gruesome casualties, I haven't heard a single US official condemn it because the West isn't allowed to involve itself with internal Gulf Cooperation Council affairs unless requested. On top of:

Bahraini uprising (2011–present)
Bahrain hosts the United States Naval Support Activity Bahrain, the home of the US Fifth Fleet; the US Department of Defense considers the location critical to its attempts to counter Iranian military power in the region.
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That's how the US decides foreign policy, pretending to care about humanitarian concerns and using it to justify involvement while ignoring the same treatment elsewhere as long as the governments in question are already serving the desired purpose.

Tashbrooke said:
Do you feel good right now?
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You probably should be addressing me, CHEEZMO picked fights with me before and the insults were unilateral so I can't even begin to feel shame for provoking him. But I don't care for bans in general, I love people who disagree with me, I continuously pursue to adjust my opinions to be more accurate and that makes them vital in the process. Even when they don't supply arguments I appreciate their presence because their irrationality only strengthens my case. This attitude is of course narcissistic as it doesn't benefit the community but I have to draw a line where my responsibility for the actions of others end.
 
K

kobashi100

Banned
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/burning-bottle-thrown-at-mosque-in-bletchley-8631472.html

Emma Sword

A burning bottle was hurled at a mosque while members were inside at evening prayers.

Thames Valley Police said a bottle containing flammable liquid was set alight and thrown on to the roof of the Zainabia Islamic Centre, commonly known as the Granby Mosque, in Bletchley at about 11.30pm last night.

The attack comes in the wake of the brutal murder of soldier Lee Rigby outside Woolwich Barracks in south-east London.

Members of the mosque in Peverel Drive quickly extinguished the fire, a police spokeswoman said.

There was no significant damage caused to the mosque during the arson attack, she added.

Police appealed for witnesses.

Detective inspector Nick Glister, from Thames Valley Police, added: "There were people inside the mosque at the time of the incident and this could have been far worse had it not been for the quick actions of the people who were standing outside the mosque at the time."

The BBC reported some 30 people were inside the mosque at the time of the attack.

Witness Fazilat Shivji told the BBC her husband saw "a streak of fire" while waiting for her outside the women's entrance of the mosque and shouted for them all to get out.

She told the broadcaster a similar attack had happened about a year ago. "We expect it at times of trouble," she said.

She told the BBC she was "sad and anxious" following the soldier's murder in Woolwich. "I think I am more scared now than at 9/11, which is surprising" she said.

"The vilification of Islam and Muslims is getting worse day by day and incidents like [Woolwich] don't help at all, but these are fringe elements," she said.

In a statement released by Thames Valley Police on their website, Shabir Sabur, president of Zainabia Islamic Centre, said: "Such acts committed by individuals or groups can never divide the nation. These criminals and terrorists must never be allowed to win, with all our communities and the nation united in our determination to fight off all forms of criminal and extreme behaviour and hate crimes, from whichever quarter it comes."

Local police area commander Barry Halliday said: "This is an extremely disgraceful and cowardly act which I condemn in the strongest possible terms.

"We have a multicultural and diverse community in Milton Keynes, who live and work together side by side, and we will not let a few misguided people divide us.

"I would like to ask the local community to remain vigilant and report any suspicious activity to the police right away by calling 101. Anyone with information about this incident should also call us and they will be dealt with in the strictest confidence.

"I would like reassure the community that we will do all we can to find the offenders and our neighbourhood teams will continue to patrol the area, so if anyone has any concerns they can speak to one of the officers."

Anyone with information should call Mr Glister from Force CID in Milton Keynes via the 24-hour Thames Valley Police inquiry line on 101.
Click to expand...
 
F

F#A#Oo

Banned
hym said:
I've been reading Michael Scheuer's blog for a while now so obviously I already value his message. To hear him speak in person I'm again saddened he left the CIA, I'm sure there are more who share his viewpoints but I'm under the impression they are in a minority since they obviously fail to convince administrations or in a worst case scenario their agenda doesn't involve the best interests of Americans.
Click to expand...

Good read his blog. Thanks.
 
S

Silphonica

Banned
Got into a fight last night in the pub because some idiot was trying to use this event as an excuse to deport everyone in the uk with coloured skin, I didn't agree and sadly it seems I was the minority in that pub.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
Silphonica said:
Got into a fight last night in the pub because some idiot was trying to use this event as an excuse to deport everyone in the uk with coloured skin, I didn't agree and sadly it seems I was the minority in that pub.
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised at the amount of racist people who come out of the woodwork at times like this.

Sometimes people you never expected.
 
R

Rubbish King

The gift that keeps on giving
hym said:
You probably should be addressing me, CHEEZMO picked fights with me before and the insults were unilateral so I can't even begin to feel shame for provoking him. But I don't care for bans in general, I love people who disagree with me, I continuously pursue to adjust my opinions to be more accurate and that makes them vital in the process. Even when they don't supply arguments I appreciate their presence because their irrationality only strengthens my case. This attitude is of course narcissistic as it doesn't benefit the community but I have to draw a line where my responsibility for the actions of others end.
Click to expand...

...No..I don't give a shit about that, It's when people snipe at people when they have been banned..

It is literally the lowest of the low.... Nothing says grace like punching a dead guy.
 
H

hym

Banned
PJV3 said:
Same interview on Newsnight was talking about Kenyan authorities sexually abusing him and using torture.

If true, it's more likely he just lost the fucking plot and lashed out, rather than some convoluted political ideology.

Doesn't excuse anything, and the media shouldn't obsess over him for days on end either.
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I don't buy the Kenya story, he wanted to go to a Muslim country, Kenya is 90% Christian, in fact they are more devout and Church going than in the UK. Like the host mentions this is THE gateway to Somalia for Al-Shabaab fighters, I bet he joined them and his Kenyan authorities abuse story was a lie to communicate some horrors he saw in this Jihadist war.

6GTYqJTl.jpg


Tashbrooke said:
...No..I don't give a shit about that, It's when people snipe at people when they have been banned..

It is literally the lowest of the low.... Nothing says grace like punching a dead guy.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure when I read ChokeOnTheMagic's push your buttons comment the ban didn't take place yet. If I'm wrong then yeh I agree it's wrong to kick somebody while down.
 
K

kobashi100

Banned
http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/new..._run_by_muslim_family_in_upton_park_1_2209782

Melissa York

A Muslim family are in shock after their fried chicken shop was viciously attacked last night by vengeful thugs following the murder of a soldier in Woolwich.

Two men entered Dixy Chicken on Green Street, Upton Park at 9.30pm where staff claim they banged on the serving counter, shouting, "You killed one of our soldiers, we'll kill you" before vandalising the shop.

Shabbir, who helps run the family business after his father Gulam died in March, said they did their best to patch the shop up and opened for business again today because they couldn't afford not to.

Shabbir said: "My Dad was 78-years-old when he died and he worked every day of his life. I am glad that he passed away and he wasn't in the shop last night to see that.

"A lot of good people come into the shop every night and they always say what a great man my Dad was.

"But on top of losing him, we really didn't need this."

The heavy glass doors in front of the shop were smashed and Shabbir estimates the men caused thousands of pounds of damage while he also lost a night's business, having to throw food away.

Shabbir, who recently suffered a stroke and a heart attack, added: "The police were with us for quite a while last night and I haven't slept very much, I'm exhausted.

"My life flashed before my eyes - if they had got over the counter, I don't know if I'd have been strong enough to fight back.

"I'm scared, I am nervous about going in. My sister Shahanz was quite shaken up but I said to her, we can't let these people ruin our lives, we will not allow them to get to us."

Police attended the scene and two men have been arrested for public order offences and criminal damage.
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http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/story-19088353-detail/story.html#axzz2UHqyZpS3

COMMUNITY leaders have condemned an attack on a Grimsby mosque in the wake of the murder of a soldier in London.

In a united front against apparently racially-motivated vandals, church leaders, police chiefs and council leaders today said the behaviour of a gang of drunken youths was "disgusting and unacceptable".

UNACCEPTABLE: Dr Ahmad M Sabik with some of the damage to the mosque in Weelsby Road in Grimsby. He also condemned the murder of the soldier in London.

Muslim leaders were less than a metre away from where bricks landed inside their mosque – which had been lobbed by teenagers at the windows of the building, at the junction of Weelsby Road and Legsby Avenue, shortly after 11pm on Thursday. It is believed that an end-of-term house party escalated into a backlash against the murder of drummer Lee Rigby, in Woolwich.

Cars were also damaged and bins were overturned, and Humberside Police arrested 11 teenagers, aged between 16 and 17.

Welcoming community leaders to the mosque, the Imam, Dr Ahmad M Sabik, said: "We should not feel guilty about what happened in Woolwich – it is nothing to do with Islam. There is no way that Islam could allow this crime in London.

"If they call themselves Muslim, it has nothing to do with Islam."

Chairman Diler Gharib, on behalf of the Islamic Association of South Humberside and Grimsby, said the murder in Woolwich was "sadistic" and "inhumane", and he called upon all faiths to stand together.

He said: "We condemn this callous act which has no basis in Islam, that preaches peace, tolerance, mutual respect and harmonious coexistence among all world communities."

Neighbourhood Policing Chief Insp Will Jenkins said the investigation into the incident in Grimsby will consider if whether the mosque was targeted for racial reasons. He warned that parents could end up paying for the damage caused, adding: "We will not tolerate this type of behaviour. We will take positive action against anyone found to be responsible during such incidents. It is wrong that a number of residents and the local mosque will be left somewhat distressed and out of pocket following the actions of a group of teenagers that shouldn't have been drinking in the first place."

One Legsby Avenue resident said she saw 25 youths in the street at about 11.30pm. She said: "They were chanting things like 'we know where you are, we are coming to get you'.

"There was some abuse and they were running down the avenue. It was very scary."

Neighbour Paul Shreeve, 77, said: "We have lived here for 54 years and we have never seen or heard anything like this."

North East Lincolnshire Council's leader Chris Shaw said: "I deplore this disgusting and unacceptable behaviour."

On Monday, former soldier Liam Ladds, 25, and 300 supporters will march from Grimsby Cenotaph to Cleethorpes Cenotaph in memory of Lee Rigby.
Click to expand...
 
V

velociraptor

Junior Member
So it appears attacks on Muslims have increased tenfold since the incidence. It's quite sad. The killer kills a soldier due to attacks on Muslims, and the EDL attack Muslims due to an attack on a British soldier. We have come into full circle.
 
R

raindoc

Member
Rocket Scientist said:
It's sad how these agencies are practically always aware of these individuals or even approach them. Yet these crimes still happen.
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well how are you going to stop a crime like this? guys like these, which plan and act on their own cannot be stopped. see boston marathon. see the shoe bomber, the underpants bomber, Anders Breivig, etc.
in this case especially i don't see how this could've been prevented. even if they seem suspicious to the security services, without 24h surveillance anyone can buy a kitchen knife and buy/rent/steal a car...
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
I was going to say "Stabbings happen all the time in the UK" but this did kinda surprise me upon further reading.
Of course we're already getting racist twats attacking innocent muslims and "brown people".

EDIT: Looks like I missed yet another discussion on foreign intervention policies. While it is true that this knife attack probably wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the UK/US invading Iraq/Afghanistan, this is not the time to bring that up.
 
L

Locke_211

Member
Silphonica said:
Got into a fight last night in the pub because some idiot was trying to use this event as an excuse to deport everyone in the uk with coloured skin, I didn't agree and sadly it seems I was the minority in that pub.
Click to expand...

Nasty. Where was this in the UK, I'd be interested to know. A small town or a inner city?
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
PJV3 said:
Same interview on Newsnight was talking about Kenyan authorities sexually abusing him and using torture.

If true, it's more likely he just lost the fucking plot and lashed out, rather than some convoluted political ideology.

Doesn't excuse anything, and the media shouldn't obsess over him for days on end either.
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Yeah, saw that interview but found the claims pretty fantastical at the time. The interview with the community leader was somewhat disturbing though. The interviewer seemed to be suggesting the interviewee should be reporting people for thought crimes. Took me by complete surprise a BBC interviewer was suggesting such a thing...

RK9039 said:
Here's another article on the man, http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/25/woolwich-suspect-kenya-torture

'The Guardian also understands from Whitehall sources that they were aware that Adebolajo has been detained in Kenya before being deported.'
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So it's possible the claims were legit? Him being detained by the Kenyans doesn't make the claims about sexual assault true, but they did just become somewhat more believable.
 
R

RK9039

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
So it's possible the claims were legit? Him being detained by the Kenyans doesn't make the claims about sexual assault true, but they did just become somewhat more believable.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

It makes the claim more possible, but that doesn't make it true because there's probably no way to verify it. Truth is we'll never know for sure.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
raindoc said:
well how are you going to stop a crime like this? guys like these, which plan and act on their own cannot be stopped. see boston marathon. see the shoe bomber, the underpants bomber, Anders Breivig, etc.
in this case especially i don't see how this could've been prevented. even if they seem suspicious to the security services, without 24h surveillance anyone can buy a kitchen knife and buy/rent/steal a car...
Click to expand...
True, it is almost impossible in a case like this, but not always. The fbi and Boston police did a horrible job communicating with each other and spent more time monitoring Facebook pages of occupy members.
 
F

F#A#Oo

Banned
SquiddyCracker said:
EDIT: Looks like I missed yet another discussion on foreign intervention policies. While it is true that this knife attack probably wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the UK/US invading Iraq/Afghanistan, this is not the time to bring that up.
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It's the elephant in the room, it can't be ignored. There is never a good time to discuss it. If it's discussed during and after such events it's seen as insensitive. If we discuss it when everything is back to normal, no one gives a shit.

It's like the gun debate after a shooting in America. Essentially it's never a good time.

I prefer to see these events as a reminder of the faults of our society and as way of waking us up to do something.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Silphonica said:
Got into a fight last night in the pub because some idiot was trying to use this event as an excuse to deport everyone in the uk with coloured skin, I didn't agree and sadly it seems I was the minority in that pub.
Click to expand...

Ignorant people do and say ignorant things. Usually just need a catalyst to bring it out of them.


On the topic of foreign policy, if I'm honest, I cannot believe there hasn't been more terrorism and violence as a reaction to Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Afghanistan (less so), abstaining from giving Palestine a state etc. I mean, Iraq is a monumental blunder that has cost thousands of innocent lives, all based on BS.
 
H

Hindle

Banned
I'm genuinely surprised Argen Choudary hasn't been arrested yet. He radicalised Richard Dart, who was caught trying to kill MI 5 leaders, now he's radicalised the guy who went onto murder a soldier.

How long until he indirectly kills hundreds?
 
A

Ashes

Banned
@ Shaykh Shams Ad Duha vid: Looking at things holistically is a good idea. Talking of the Iraq invasion, looking at events holistically, the media may have more widely reported news reports of genocide coming out of Africa; who knows, it might have taken precedence over our invading a country. Heck, it might have even made it past page 11.
 
D

daniels

Member
Rocket Scientist said:
This is exactly the time to bring it up and make people aware of the consequences of foolish foreign policies among other things.
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Which part of the Idea to let foreign policies be decided by the threat of violence and bullying by a few non representative insane murderers in a Country of millions of normal people do you like the most?

Considering that terror attacks happened long before 9/11 and thus make a mockery of the foreign policies excuse that is routinely used by those religious loony toons anyway.

And considering that now apparently the opinion of a few crazy terrorist is worth more than the majority of the normal people simply because of violence, terrorism and media coverage.
 
K

kobashi100

Banned
daniels said:
Which part of the Idea to let foreign policies be decided by the threat of violence and bullying by a few non representative insane murderers in a Country of millions of normal people do you like the most?

Considering that terror attacks happened long before 9/11 and thus make a mockery of the foreign policies excuse that is routinely used by those religious loony toons anyway.

And considering that now apparently the opinion of a few crazy terrorist is worth more than the majority of the normal people simply because of violence, terrorism and media coverage.
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foreign policy plays a major factor. one of the killers said it himself for crying out load.

Its not me or other speculating. the guy made it clear to everybody that it was a reason why he committed this crime!

To totally ignore this is being very naive.
 
D

daniels

Member
kobashi100 said:
foreign policy plays a major factor. one of the killers said it himself for crying out load.

Its not me or other speculating. the guy made it clear to everybody that it was a reason why he committed this crime!

To totally ignore this is being very naive.
Click to expand...

I don’t think its a good idea to let extremists decide foreign policies because of the threat of violence sry

Guess what! It doesn’t matter what the killers opinion on foreign policies are for crying out loud. Those religious loney toons are a minuscule minority they don’t get to decide and control the debate and politics about foreign policies over the head of the majority of normal people no matter the violence, bullying, blackmail or how crazy the are.
In fact the crazier they are the less you should value their opinion and not put it above millions of law abiding citizens or give it a platform in the media for copycats or Jesus fucking Christ even consider it in politics and policy making o_O that’s fucking insanity.
 
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