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[ringwaldhaze]

Chances of me getting the next Xbox just got a whole lot smaller.

Unless I'm misremembering, there is only two of their games released this generation that you can't play on North American systems released this generation (three in Europe as we didn't get the GoD release of Deathsmiles II)? This idea that you needed a J-360 to play their games is kinda out there.

So what is the 3DS?

Eighth generation?

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta on 360=6.7k FW
Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta on PS3=1.26k FW

Well

 

[STG!]

Sad day. I wonder what's next for Cave and many of the developers there.

 

[danmaku]

you guys sure are weirdly snobbish about this failed company

Nothing snobbish about that, it's just that the OT has people asking every other page why their games aren't available on PS3 or why they don't do DD releases. Regular posters get tired of explaining the same shit over and over again. It's kinda like when a game bombs and the standard GAF reasoning is "they didn't spend enough on marketing! Could've been a million seller!".

 

[honorless]

To counter all the doom in this thread, I'm not sure this article says Cave won't license any future arcade games to other developers who want to make home ports.

That's what happened with the entirety of their output for PS2, anyway: Taito developed Ibara and Mushihime-sama, DOJ and ESPGaluda were Arika. The upcoming PS3 port of Ketsui is being handled by 5pb, for more recent developments. So...there's that.

well never mind this post then, RIP

 

[DeadRockstar]

Well fuck. I bought 5 or 6 of their 360 releases this generation and enjoyed them all. This really fucking sucks.

 

[Fraeon]

YOU MONSTER

I like their games.

Bought every single one this gen that I could run on my EU 360. They will be missed.

Still... wasn't surprised. The writing was on the wall and their games aren't the types of games that have a profitable audience today.

 

[cuilan]

I once almost got lynched by a bunch of elitist CAVE fans when I suggested that CAVE should try to grow their fanbase by releasing on as many platforms as possible with reasonable pricing instead of the niche audience plus premium price approach.

Both the PS3 and 360 ports of Under Defeat HD were released at the same time in Japan, and yet neither of them reached the number of sales that G.rev's single-platform (360) releases achieved. Neither version even charted for the week of their release. Going multiplatform only splintered the fanbase.

i think Akai Katana sold like 5000 copies first week in japan. i don't know how they didn't hear the warning shot back then.

This is a good example of one of Cave's more serious issues: they would often release games that their target market didn't want.

Ibara (debatable)
Pink Sweets
Muchi Muchi Pork
Akai Katana
Instant Brain

All that time and money would have been far better spent making games most of their fanbase actually wanted, like Deathsmiles 3, or Espgaluda 3, or Mushihime-sama 3. If handled properly, any one of those would have sold far more than 5000 copies.

 

[BocoDragon]

For the broader audience though, importing a Japanese 360 just wasn't going to happen. Especially given the early failure rate.

There were about ~10 Cave titles that can play on a western 360.

 

[Risette]

Sad day. I wonder what's next for Cave and many of the developers there.

Medal games! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPKbS2kmQI4

(this one was made by Yagawa)

 

[Cmagus]

Doesn't that just goes to show what a mistake Cave made by ignoring the worldwide market?

Pretty much the reason IMO. Yes they localized some on 360 (mushi sold huge when they made it region free it was sold out for a long time) but their decision was too late.

They should have released on PS3 as well even if it was digital only they would have profited from it because there is enough demand and always has been. Shame really they made some fantastic games.

 

[DeadRockstar]

There were about ~10 Cave titles that can play on a western 360.

That many? I think I'll pick up the rest while I still can. They're pretty much the only reason I have a 360 at this point.

 

[FoxSpirit]

I guess this is your way of saying you never actually cared about these games and never paid the slightest bit of attention to their releases. Embarrassing!


There's a few releases in Japan that are region free. They've been reprinted with cheaper editions now so check them out.

Wow, talk about elitist.

You attack people for not keeping up with rereleases but give no thought to casual fans that would have seriously bought them on Steam for 15 bucks. Instead, iOS.
Oh wait, I heard Jamestown bombed horribly, no market for this kind of game on Steam obviously.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

You guys could have just bought 360s.
I mean goddamn is it really so difficult?

Yeah they could have went to Steam, but they didn't want to. They cater to a specific niche, one that's willing to throw hundreds at LEs. They tried and failed to expand to other avenues.

Oh well. That's how it goes sometimes.

 

[Risette]

Wow, talk about elitist.

You attack people for not keeping up with rereleases but give no thought to casual fans that would have seriously bought them on Steam for 15 bucks. Instead, iOS.
Oh wait, I heard Jamestown bombed horribly, no market for this kind of game on Steam obviously.

The fuck? I haven't attacked SmokyDave at all. Just informing him of releases he might've missed.

 

[gunstarhero]

Really sucks - hopefully the devs hop over to other companies ans continue to produce awesomeness. Futari and Akai Katana Shin are 2 of my favorite 360 games of all time.

At least they went out on a high note - impressions of DDP Sai are really good (barring some leaderboard bugs). Looking forward to my copy arriving soon.

Sad day indeed.

 

[Ace Harding]

There were about ~10 Cave titles that can play on a western 360.

Is there a list somewhere?

Are games like DDP and Mushi going to be really expensive now?

I was going to buy one or two JP Cave imports. I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner!

This is all my fault.

 

[Riposte]

I'm on team "should have released on Steam", but I also understand the dynamic of doubling down on your niche with high prices because you know that you are selling to a smaller market. I still think that, like all small Japanese devs, they should have explored that option for the west.

The fact CAVE's game division survived the whole gen is a little impressive though. I haven't played nearly enough of their games, but I always keep an eye on them. A similarly small company like Falcom looks like they will survive into next gen no problem, so that's good.

 

[Acosta]

nonononononononono.

For god's shake... tell me this is not true...

 

[FoxSpirit]

The fuck? I haven't attacked SmokyDave at all. Just informing him of releases he might've missed.

Ermm, this bit doesn't sound like attacking?

I guess this is your way of saying you never actually cared about these games and never paid the slightest bit of attention to their releases. Embarrassing!

Never cared, never paid attention, emberassing.

Er....

 

[Kincaido]

Is there a list somewhere?

Are games like DDP and Mushi going to be really expensive now?

I was going to buy one or two JP Cave imports. I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner!

This is all my fault.

Was actually discussed recently.

Playable on US360:
Guwange
Espgaluda 2
Pink Sweets/Muchi Muchi Pork
Mushihime-sama Futari
Deathsmiles
Dodonpachi Resurrection
Deathsmiles II
Akai Katana
Dodonpachi Saidaioujou

Playable only on JP360:
Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label Extra
Ketsui
Ketsuipachi (on the disc version of Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu Black Label)
Mushihime-sama

Click on the post and go down a post or two for clarification so you don't accidentally buy the wrong version.

 

[Fraeon]

They should have released on PS3 as well even if it was digital only they would have profited from it because there is enough demand and always has been.

I'm not really convinced that there was a enough of a demand of any type. Their core market was dwindling and their games are a really acquired taste even within the genre that is a really tough sell to anyone outside of it. They kind of painted themselves into a corner there.

 

[Risette]

Ermm, this bit doesn't sound like attacking?


Never cared, never paid attention, emberassing.

Er....

Pay attention to who's being quoted.

Is there a list somewhere?

Are games like DDP and Mushi going to be really expensive now?

I was going to buy one or two JP Cave imports. I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner!

This is all my fault.

Mushihimesama Futari (import, Platinum Hits reprint)
Muchi Muchi Pork/Pink Sweets (import, Cave the Best reprint)
Espgaluda 2 (import, Platinum Hits reprint)
Dodonpachi Saidaioujou (import, no budget reprint, released yesterday)
Deathsmiles 2X (North American GoD)
Akai Katana (localized)
Deathsmiles (localized)
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu (localized in EU, playable on US 360s)
Guwange (XBLA)

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I doubt Cave would have survived Steam's greenlight process anyway.

EDIT: Shit. My avatar...looks like it's never going to be changed.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Knew this was coming but doesn't make the announcement any less sad

 

[Riposte]

Curious if they laid off some of the talent. If they did, I wonder what they will do.

 

[Beckx]

Well, terrible news if it's accurate, but since we'd already heard SDOJ was the last console game, not a huge surprise.

This thread is depressing, though. In the hopes of raising the mood: shmups aren't going to die out any time soon. In addition to "well known" folks like G.rev and MOSS, don't discount doujin games. Yotsubane's Crimzon Clover is a phenomenal game and is getting an arcade release in Japan (the PC copy is relatively easy to obtain). Siter Skain's Alltynex trilogy is getting localized through a Kickstarter that just ended. And there's the (always divisive) Touhou games.

Pour one out for CAVE, stay positive, and keep shmupping!

 

[mikeBlack]

I think I read they couldn't release games on ps3 because Sony would not accept games that did not use the full width of the screen, the early 360 ports were mostly vertical shmups. Could be wrong and it may be different now, but I guess it doesn't matter anyway...
I hope the social games are successful for them.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

This is horrendous news.

 

[DeadRockstar]

Mushihimesama Futari (import, Platinum Hits reprint)
Muchi Muchi Pork/Pink Sweets (import, Cave the Best reprint)
Espgaluda 2 (import, Platinum Hits reprint)
Dodonpachi Saidaioujou (import, no budget reprint, released yesterday)
Deathsmiles 2X (North American GoD)
Akai Katana (localized)
Deathsmiles (localized)
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu (localized in EU, playable on US 360s)
Guwange (XBLA)

In that case I'm only missing Saidaioujou and Deathsmiles 2x. I'm in the EU, so I don't think any of the D2X options will work on my 360. I'll grab SDOJ though and round out the collection.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Pay attention to who's being quoted.

You quoted Haruhater. I never said anything about SmokyDave.

 

[Takao]

I'm on team "should have released on Steam", but I also understand the dynamic of doubling down on your niche with high prices because you know that you are selling to a smaller market. I still think that, like all small Japanese devs, they should have explored that option for the west.

The fact CAVE's game division survived the whole gen is a little impressive though. I haven't played nearly enough of their games, but I always keep an eye on them. A similarly small company like Falcom looks like they will survive into next gen no problem, so that's good.

Falcom is a lot more successful than Cave was.

 

[Risette]

You quoted Haruhater. I never said anything about SmokeyDave.

Wow, talk about elitist.

You attack people for not keeping up with rereleases but give no thought to casual fans that would have seriously bought them on Steam for 15 bucks. Instead, iOS.
Oh wait, I heard Jamestown bombed horribly, no market for this kind of game on Steam obviously.

Now, go look at who I talked to about reprints.

I'd rather have them on iOS than Steam anyways. Better platform.

 

[gunstarhero]

I'm not really convinced that there was a enough of a demand of any type. Their core market was dwindling and their games are a really acquired taste even within the genre that is a really tough sell to anyone outside of it. They kind of painted themselves into a corner there.

That's exactly it. Being on PS3 or Steam wouldn't have helped much - if you were a shooter fan you bought a 360. Cave may have exposed a few new consumers to the genre thru those channels, but I doubt it would have made a huge difference.

It's a small niche market - and the genre is not exactly "casual", so it's not bringing in tons of new blood. Spreading Caves resources to port to other systems might have actually caused them to close shop earlier.

Who knows - maybe one day the genre will make a small comeback and Cave will be back.

 

[meppi]

In that case I'm only missing Saidaioujou and Deathsmiles 2x. I'm in the EU, so I don't think any of the D2X options will work on my 360. I'll grab SDOJ though and round out the collection.

For Europe you can use this as well:

 

[klee123]

Hate to say it but they have no one to blame other than themselves and they should have seen this coming years ago when VN developers were expanding to the PS3 audience as well.

For people saying that the PS3 is not a viable market and pointing out the bad sales of Mamoru Kun and Under Defeat is a piss poor excuse considering that:

1. Mamoru Kun was a year old belated port and wasn't all that well received in the first place.
2. Considering that these two are the only retail shumups available on the system, the comparison is pretty much moot.

Anyone who says that there's no market on the PS3 is deluding themselves, when there was never one in the first place and the shumup devs other than Grev never even tried, but unlike the Cave, the VN devs actually caught on years ago and expanded to the PS3 or jumped the sinking ship.

 

[honorless]

Oh wait, I heard Jamestown bombed horribly, no market for this kind of game on Steam obviously.

Final Form Games is comprised of three people. They spent two years developing Jamestown.
Cave has over 150 employees. They release multiple games a year and are publicly traded.

Would I have liked to see Cave on PC? Sure. But the two companies and their measures of success are not very comparable, and I doubt the ROI would have been great enough.

 

[Hayama Akito]

I don't think the "Cave style" shooters will die and probably Asada and friends will make a Doujin circle or something like that in the future, but sure this is a very, very sad day...

 

[@MUWANdo]

For reference, here's a list of all Cave's X360 STGs: (EDIT: lots of others pitched in while I was typing. Redundant? Missing stuff? Let me know.)

Dodonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou Black Label EX (JP-only, region-locked ((Also junk, don't buy.))
Ketsui (JP-only, region-locked)
Mushihime-sama HD (JP-only, region-locked)

Dodonpachi Saidaioujou (JP-only, region-free)
Espgaluda 2 (JP-only, standard/platinum versions region-free, limited edition region-locked)
Muchi Muchi Pork / Pink Sweets Double Pack (JP-only, region-free)
Mushihime-sama Futari (JP-only, region-free)

Akai Katana (NA/PAL release by Rising Star Games)
Deathsmiles (NA release by Aksys, PAL release by Rising Star Games)
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu / Resurrection (PAL release by Rising Star Games)

Deathsmiles 2 (NA Games on Demand release)
Guwange (available worldwide on XBLA)

 

[Wonko_C]

Now I feel bad for wanting to wait on discounts for DOJ and Maximum on IOS.

Does this mean Saidaioujou will become rare/expensive? I am kind of out of budget for games now and decided to wait a few months to import.

 

[Risette]

DOJBLEX got patched. Formerly junk, safe to buy now.

 

[Somnid]

It doesn't matter if your games are good if you don't let people play them. Maybe some ex-staffers can pick up the pieces with a sensible, global and multi-platform business model.

 

[see5harp]

Nothing snobbish about that, it's just that the OT has people asking every other page why their games aren't available on PS3 or why they don't do DD releases. Regular posters get tired of explaining the same shit over and over again. It's kinda like when a game bombs and the standard GAF reasoning is "they didn't spend enough on marketing! Could've been a million seller!".

That plus the "they deserved to die" because they didn't port to PS3/Vita (lol) statements.

 

[Fraeon]

So, what's the full translation of the link on the opening post?

 

[big_z]

theres only so many times you can fly a half naked prepubescent girl through a bunch of dots....

 

[meppi]

It doesn't matter if your games are good if you don't let people play them. Maybe some ex-staffers can pick up the pieces with a sensible, global and multi-platform business model.

Round and round we go.

Doesn't matter how many times these posts have been addressed and debunked, new people just drop in and post the same thing again and again.

 

[djplaeskool]

I shall cherish my Ketsui LE when it arrives

 

[Rarity]

For reference, here's a list of all Cave's X360 STGs: (EDIT: lots of others pitched in while I was typing. Redundant? Missing stuff? Let me know.)

Dodonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou Black Label EX (JP-only, region-locked ((Also junk, don't buy.))
Ketsui (JP-only, region-locked)
Mushihime-sama HD (JP-only, region-locked)

Dodonpachi Saidaioujou (JP-only, region-free)
Espgaluda 2 (JP-only, standard/platinum versions region-free, limited edition region-locked)
Muchi Muchi Pork / Pink Sweets Double Pack (JP-only, region-free)
Mushihime-sama Futari (JP-only, region-free)

Akai Katana (NA/PAL release by Rising Star Games)
Deathsmiles (NA release by Aksys, PAL release by Rising Star Games)
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu / Resurrection (PAL release by Rising Star Games)

Deathsmiles 2 (NA Games on Demand release)
Guwange (available worldwide on XBLA)

Pay attention to who's being quoted.

Mushihimesama Futari (import, Platinum Hits reprint)
Muchi Muchi Pork/Pink Sweets (import, Cave the Best reprint)
Espgaluda 2 (import, Platinum Hits reprint)
Dodonpachi Saidaioujou (import, no budget reprint, released yesterday)
Deathsmiles 2X (North American GoD)
Akai Katana (localized)
Deathsmiles (localized)
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu (localized in EU, playable on US 360s)
Guwange (XBLA)

This is sad news. Thank you for these lists.

 

[dinopoke]

Man, it would be great if they started a Kickstarter to port their games to PC and put them on Steam.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Man, it would be great if they started a Kickstarter to port their games to PC and put them on Steam.

They'd probably be more willing to put them on Playism first.