Really? Ha, in Dutch too.
You're from Holland? A lot of Dutchies on Neogaf. (Not me though).
Really? Ha, in Dutch too.
It was a bet, like any other bet, but the downclock isn't what is worrisome, it's the half baked OS. I hope they just fix things in time. I'm optimistic they'll get it right, but it might be a few months after launch.
They have a very ambitious goal with the Xbox One OS.
I don't think that's going to happen if the difference gets so massive. If you're going 1080p on PS4, you would have to drop to 720p on Xbone to get comparable performance. If you're going to something in between on the PS4, you would have to cut more on Xbone unless you're going sub-HD. Either way, PS4 will end up with a massive IQ advantage. If the devs target a solid IQ on the Xbone and design their games around that, they games will end up looking poorly compared to PS4 exclusives. If they want to match Sony's 1st party stuff, they'll be forced to make severe IQ concessions.
SRAM is cheaper, maybe?
Yeah, a fractured skull is hilarious...
Seriously, you could kill somebody doing that.
You're from Holland? A lot of Dutchies on Neogaf. (Not me though).
The DME are another part of the silicon commonly accepted as true. Digital Foundry, for example, assumes that it's there although aren't part that big complex SoC with yields problems. They are there to fix the low bandwidth of the system and if this rumour is true they are more needed than ever. The less powerful the X1 gets the more it needs to be more efficient than the PS4.I thought those Data Move Engines were just PR nonsense for DMA... which the PS4 will definitely have.
Or is it something more than that?
It was a bet, like any other bet, but the downclock isn't what is worrisome, it's the half baked OS. I hope they just fix things in time. I'm optimistic they'll get it right, but it might be a few months after launch.
They have a very ambitious goal with the Xbox One OS.
You can't have some consoles play a game better than others.In theory if this is the case, down the line with a slim version when they get the yields fixed they can fix the clocks correct?
I don't think going embedded memory with DDR3 was that bad a decision. What I really don't get is why they went with 6t-SRAM instead of eDRAM. The size difference is humongous. Are there production/process advantages to this I am unaware of?
In theory if this is the case, down the line with a slim version when they get the yields fixed they can fix the clocks correct?
Yep, this is accurate. Ballmer himself confessed to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYFyKNQB1Js
For everyone asking- this information is all pretty recent. Around the PlayStation Meeting the Xbox One was way behind (OS + hardware). Engineers were scrambling to get things sorted out.
It turns out, they didn't sort it out. The OS you saw was a complete and total lie. The current plan is to get the yields up, lower the clock rate, and to have enough units out for a sell out in the Fall.
For those asking how this affects performance- to be perfectly frank; it is nothing turning down features won't solve. The mass market will never notice a difference between 1080p and 900p; neither will they care about dynamic shadows / global illumination / or tesselation. Go to your PC - and turn shadows from Ultra to medium, disable tesselation, and lower the resolution to 900p; and you'll find games run totally fine.
Microsoft is purely behind and it's now time to make drastic decisions. I don't think any one is happy about the lower clocks, but no one is depressed about it either. The Xbox One is an all-in-on device; and that's how it will be marketed.
No, it is in theory easier to manufacture than EDRAM in smaller nodes due to not having capacitors and above all, due to not depending on others to do it ( IBM, NEC...).
Yeah unlike some of the info we had that was quite old all this stuff has been coming out only recently and only get reconfirmed over and over.
People should have seen this coming though when MS didn't announce anything about the GPU and instead focused on the transistors which was ridiculous. They are using misdirection and dropping random spec info in a attempt to make casuals think "Wow 5 Million Transistys is a lot!!" They very likely won't be revealing the specifics of the GPU even at E3 and take a page out of Nintendo and keep that stuff under wraps.
In theory if this is the case, down the line with a slim version when they get the yields fixed they can fix the clocks correct?
I don't understand how someone who is clearly mentally challenged is allowed to run a company the size of MS.
Hardware parity is a must for game consoles. Otherwise there would be weaker consoles in the wild that would not run games.
Unfortunately it's not. There are performance issues. In some cases, its quite significant.It was a bet, like any other bet, but the downclock isn't what is worrisome, it's the half baked OS.
The DME are another part of the silicon commonly accepted as true. Digital Foundry, for example, assumes that it's there although aren't part that big complex SoC with yields problems. They are there to fix the low bandwidth of the system and if this rumour is true they are more needed than ever. The less powerful the X1 gets the more it needs to be more efficient than the PS4.
MS still make a lot of money under Ballmer even if it's obvious that it's total short-termism. He's no Howard Stringer.I don't understand how someone who is clearly mentally challenged is allowed to run a company the size of MS.
Unfortunately it's not. There are performance issues. In some cases, its quite significant.
Yep, this is accurate. Ballmer himself confessed to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYFyKNQB1Js
Thank you!!
My home is a breast with MS products, however folks should remember why MS got into the gaming business to begin with. Hint.. it wasn't to make money in the gaming industry.
What we are seeing today with MS is their end game/goal. MS is betting that they are the one software company that can bring all the components of life and entertainment together. And by doing so will become the only information gathering conglomerate that will have a major television viewing angle.
Guys "Please understand" Nothing makes money like advertisement sales and MS is looking for a piece of That pie. Not gaming.
MS still make a lot of money under Ballmer even if it's obvious that it's total short-termism. He's no Howard Stringer.
Unfortunately it's not. There are performance issues. In some cases, its quite significant.
Yeah unlike some of the info we had that was quite old all this stuff has been coming out only recently and only get reconfirmed over and over.
People should have seen this coming though when MS didn't announce anything about the GPU and instead focused on the transistors which was ridiculous. They are using misdirection and dropping random spec info in a attempt to make casuals think "Wow 5 Million Transistys is a lot!!" They very likely won't be revealing the specifics of the GPU even at E3 and take a page out of Nintendo and keep that stuff under wraps.
I don't doubt that they're there, just that they're not really a distinguishing feature because DMA is a standard part of any modern architecture.
They may have an LZ77 codec and a jpeg decoder, but I don't know that that is going to make a huge difference.
I dunno. They're there for a reason, of course, and they'll make something of an impact... but they're not going to help a drop from 1.2 to 0.9/0.8 TFLOPS. You can move data around as fast as you like, but it's not going to change the throughput of your GPU.
I'm just skeptical, the whole Data Move Engine thing reeks of PR BS.
Unfortunately it's not. There are performance issues. In some cases, its quite significant.
Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks for the infoI don't doubt that they're there, just that they're not really a distinguishing feature because DMA is a standard part of any modern architecture.
They may have an LZ77 codec and a jpeg decoder, but I don't know that that is going to make a huge difference.
I dunno. They're there for a reason, of course, and they'll make something of an impact... but they're not going to help a drop from 1.2 to 0.9/0.8 TFLOPS. You can move data around as fast as you like, but it's not going to change the throughput of your GPU.
I'm just skeptical, the whole Data Move Engine thing reeks of PR BS.
Unfortunately it's not. There are performance issues. In some cases, its quite significant.
For everyone asking- this information is all pretty recent. Around the PlayStation Meeting the Xbox One was way behind (OS + hardware). Engineers were scrambling to get things sorted out.
It turns out, they didn't sort it out. The OS you saw was a complete and total lie. The current plan is to get the yields up, lower the clock rate, and to have enough units out for a sell out in the Fall.
For those asking how this affects performance- to be perfectly frank; it is nothing turning down features won't solve. The mass market will never notice a difference between 1080p and 900p; neither will they care about dynamic shadows / global illumination / or tesselation. Go to your PC - and turn shadows from Ultra to medium, disable tesselation, and lower the resolution to 900p; and you'll find games run totally fine.
Microsoft is purely behind and it's now time to make drastic decisions. I don't think any one is happy about the lower clocks, but no one is depressed about it either. The Xbox One is an all-in-on device; and that's how it will be marketed.
Is it impossible to design it with redundancy so you can disable part with defunct transistor ?
Damn, at this point I it'll take it as "confirmed".Unfortunately it's not. There are performance issues. In some cases, its quite significant.
Yeah, a fractured skull is hilarious...
Seriously, you could kill somebody doing that.
Yep, this is accurate. Ballmer himself confessed to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYFyKNQB1Js
Nothing but great news coming out of MS camp.
In theory if this is the case, down the line with a slim version when they get the yields fixed they can fix the clocks correct?
I don't understand how someone who is clearly mentally challenged is allowed to run a company the size of MS.
Yeah unlike some of the info we had that was quite old all this stuff has been coming out only recently and only get reconfirmed over and over.
...People should have seen this coming though when MS didn't announce anything about the GPU....
I was reading the gametrailers/youtube comments on the reveal video, and many were 'yep same specs as PS4, 8 core CPU, 8GB RAM'
Pretty ridiculous
Windows, Windows, Windows baby!
Just delay the damn system until Fall 2014. Put a beefier GPU in the fucking console while you're at it.
Unfortunately it's not. There are performance issues. In some cases, its quite significant.